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Symposium => "Open" Discussions => Topic started by: bb459 on June 19, 2019, 08:56:12 am

Title: v
Post by: bb459 on June 19, 2019, 08:56:12 am
v
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: OnNut81 on June 19, 2019, 09:11:12 am
The use of expat has been expanded because people feel there is more of a cache or stature to referring to oneself as an expat.  You're right about that.  If you applied to be a teacher over here on your own volition you're an immigrant.  Now because of the often temporary stays and the fact that there really isn't a viable path to citizenship or permanent residency for most of us, or those who don't marry a Korean citizen we fall somewhere in between a true expat and an immigrant back home in Canada, as an example.  I've been here over a decade and I still have to apply for an E2 each year.  An immigrant in the west would not be stuck in that cycle after this many years. 

An expat is someone who is has been expatriated and often will include professionals who have been headhunted.  The true expat community doesn't consider your average E2 English teacher to be a part of the authentic expat community if that label is important to you.  People in my home who have been moved there (expatriated) by their home country's government or a foreign company are certainly considered expats in the West.  Immigrants are another legitimate group. 
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: zola on June 19, 2019, 09:23:24 am
...that we should leave in 2019

When people from other countries move to yall's home country.
I GUARANTEE you don't call them "expats".
They're called "foreigners" and "immigrants"

Both words that the media attaches negative, dirty, poor, criminal connotations to.

So how come when we do the same exact thing and relocate to another country, we get
a seemingly clean/dignified word like "expat" ?
Nope

We are foreigners. We are immigrants. We are alien.
We are the same as the people eggiefugger and mr defartino want to keep OUT of their home countries.

Don't get it twisted.

That's all fine, but again as was discussed here last week, most of us are NOT immigrants. 90% of E2s are here for a few years tops and then move on. Most have no intention to live here permanently. Using the word immigrant is just wrong. Someone like leapnover who seems to have been here for a long time, owns a business here, yes he could be called an immigrant. And I'm sure he would have no problem with that.

Migrant workers, fine. I really don't think anyone cares that much. And who is under any illusion as to us being Aliens? It's written clearly on every piece of official documentation that we receive. And as an aside, no one has ever called me an expat. Nor I myself.
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: Ronnie Omelettes on June 19, 2019, 09:30:54 am
I prefer 'Fugacious Gruntwork Attendant' and wish to be addressed as such. 
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: thunderlips on June 19, 2019, 09:40:35 am
You are all wrong in Korea we are "waygookin" (computer doesn't like my hangeul). In case you have forgotten wait about 2 minutes and someone will remind you.
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: zola on June 19, 2019, 09:43:59 am
...that we should leave in 2019

When people from other countries move to yall's home country.
I GUARANTEE you don't call them "expats".
They're called "foreigners" and "immigrants"

Both words that the media attaches negative, dirty, poor, criminal connotations to.

So how come when we do the same exact thing and relocate to another country, we get
a seemingly clean/dignified word like "expat" ?
Nope

We are foreigners. We are immigrants. We are alien.
We are the same as the people eggiefugger and mr defartino want to keep OUT of their home countries.

Don't get it twisted.

That's all fine, but again as was discussed here last week, most of us are NOT immigrants. 90% of E2s are here for a few years tops and then move on. Most have no intention to live here permanently. Using the word immigrant is just wrong. Someone like leapnover who seems to have been here for a long time, owns a business here, yes he could be called an immigrant. And I'm sure he would have no problem with that.

Migrant workers, fine. I really don't think anyone cares that much. And who is under any illusion as to us being Aliens? It's written clearly on every piece of official documentation that we receive. And as an aside, no one has ever called me an expat. Nor I myself.

In amerika. Whether a foreigner has lived there 1 year or 40 years. Whether they are there legally or not.
Whether they have acquired citizenship or not. The trumpets and average amerikan citizens and the media
labels them "immigrants' "migrants" and "foreigners"...they don't get the privilege of having a word to separate
themselves from those stigmas and connotations. That's the way it is.
Ok, well, a lot of us aren't Americans. I know that's hard for you guys to comprehend sometimes, that the whole world doesn't operate in the same as you do.

It's amazing how often some Americans reinforce the "center of the universe" stereotype sometimes.
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: thunderlips on June 19, 2019, 09:56:37 am
...that we should leave in 2019

When people from other countries move to yall's home country.
I GUARANTEE you don't call them "expats".
They're called "foreigners" and "immigrants"

Both words that the media attaches negative, dirty, poor, criminal connotations to.

So how come when we do the same exact thing and relocate to another country, we get
a seemingly clean/dignified word like "expat" ?
Nope

We are foreigners. We are immigrants. We are alien.
We are the same as the people eggiefugger and mr defartino want to keep OUT of their home countries.

Don't get it twisted.

That's all fine, but again as was discussed here last week, most of us are NOT immigrants. 90% of E2s are here for a few years tops and then move on. Most have no intention to live here permanently. Using the word immigrant is just wrong. Someone like leapnover who seems to have been here for a long time, owns a business here, yes he could be called an immigrant. And I'm sure he would have no problem with that.

Migrant workers, fine. I really don't think anyone cares that much. And who is under any illusion as to us being Aliens? It's written clearly on every piece of official documentation that we receive. And as an aside, no one has ever called me an expat. Nor I myself.

In amerika. Whether a foreigner has lived there 1 year or 40 years. Whether they are there legally or not.
Whether they have acquired citizenship or not. The trumpets and average amerikan citizens and the media
labels them "immigrants' "migrants" and "foreigners"...they don't get the privilege of having a word to separate
themselves from those stigmas and connotations. That's the way it is.
Ok, well, a lot of us aren't Americans. I know that's hard for you guys to comprehend sometimes, that the whole world doesn't operate in the same as you do.

It's amazing how often some Americans reinforce the "center of the universe" stereotype sometimes.

Wait what!?? Are you sure?  Well technically most maps put us in the center of the universe to be fair. :P
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: tylerthegloob on June 19, 2019, 10:01:18 am
Wait what!?? Are you sure?  Well technically most maps put us in the center of the universe to be fair. :P

lol wtf kind of maps you looking at? africa is always in the middle

edit: just realized you're probably from south africa and i look like a 바보
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: LIC on June 19, 2019, 10:02:01 am
I refer to myself as an ex-pat. My wife and family refer to me as foreigner. LOL
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: thunderlips on June 19, 2019, 10:08:37 am
Wait what!?? Are you sure?  Well technically most maps put us in the center of the universe to be fair. :P

lol wtf kind of maps you looking at? africa is always in the middle

edit: just realized you're probably from south africa and i look like a 바보

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/92/Map_of_USA_with_state_names_2.svg/1280px-Map_of_USA_with_state_names_2.svg.png)
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: tylerthegloob on June 19, 2019, 10:15:19 am
Wait what!?? Are you sure?  Well technically most maps put us in the center of the universe to be fair. :P

lol wtf kind of maps you looking at? africa is always in the middle

edit: just realized you're probably from south africa and i look like a 바보
(map)

ah. a man of culture. so you're from kansas, then?
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on June 19, 2019, 10:17:10 am
mr defartino
First off, I'm one of the main posters who has advocated that we are migrant workers and NOT immigrants. Because for most of us we are, get this, migrant workers. Or temporary workers. Most of us are NOT immigrants. As far as the use of expat or whatever, a lot of times that term is just used interchangeably with ESLer or NETs or waygook or foreigner or whatever for the sake of writing variety. Yes, some of us apply the same standard, regardless of country.

I'm also one of the few posters to take people to task for assuming that foreigner=English Teacher/Westerner and centering foreigner issues and what should be done for foreigners within that prism. I often point out that by far the biggest group of foreigners are Chinese and also SE Asians and South Asians. Same with tourists.
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: CO2 on June 19, 2019, 10:26:14 am
Ok, well, a lot of us aren't Americans. I know that's hard for you guys to comprehend sometimes, that the whole world doesn't operate in the same as you do.

It's amazing how often some Americans reinforce the "center of the universe" stereotype sometimes.
I hate this crap so much. We all live overseas, you'd think these people would have a bit of a broader worldview.

Some Americans are shitty to immigrants. So.............. You, the Canadian man should feel bad. Don't use these words. These words are problematic. Trump supporters are bad.

Reminds me of people who get upset at cultural appropriation of Japanese culture (sushi in uni cafeterias, kimonos etc) and then when the ACTUAL Japanese people are consulted they say "Oh, no, that's great. They like our culture! ^^!
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: thunderlips on June 19, 2019, 10:27:03 am
Wait what!?? Are you sure?  Well technically most maps put us in the center of the universe to be fair. :P

lol wtf kind of maps you looking at? africa is always in the middle

edit: just realized you're probably from south africa and i look like a 바보
(map)

ah. a man of culture. so you're from kansas, then?

:D Just taking a piss man. Sorry...
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: tylerthegloob on June 19, 2019, 10:28:59 am
Wait what!?? Are you sure?  Well technically most maps put us in the center of the universe to be fair. :P

lol wtf kind of maps you looking at? africa is always in the middle

edit: just realized you're probably from south africa and i look like a 바보
(map)

ah. a man of culture. so you're from kansas, then?

:D Just taking a piss man. Sorry...

i hope you're in the bathroom..
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on June 19, 2019, 10:32:41 am
In amerika. Whether a foreigner has lived there 1 year or 40 years. Whether they are there legally or not.
Whether they have acquired citizenship or not. The trumpets and average amerikan citizens and the media
labels them "immigrants' "migrants" and "foreigners"...they don't get the privilege of having a word to separate
themselves from those stigmas and connotations. That's the way it is.
Imagine having such a degree of mental illness that you think America is some sort of oppressive fascist country. It has major problems, especially as world policemen, but for being such an awful place, it sure has a lot of people trying to get in, rather than trying to get out. Real fascist/totalitarian countries have to build walls to keep people in.

I think Hispanic immigrants and refugees have their heads on straighter than some of the left-wingers in our country. They know actual police states and brutality, not "I'm bored and want to add significance to my life by imagining myself as waging some valiant struggle against evil before I log off Instagram and go clubbing" silliness.

Quote
The trumpets and average amerikan citizens and the media
labels them "immigrants' "migrants" and "foreigners"
That generally happens with 1st generation immigrants in any country, which frankly is a bit understandable as many 1st gen immigrants themselves offer a dual/hybrid zone (which is great in my opinion). I think those who insist that they be labeled as "Full Americans" (though that should be the default standard if they are a citizen) are just as ridiculous as those who insist "They aren't Americans". They should be whatever they the individual considers themself, whether that's Full or Aren't or anywhere in between. Or someone can be "Full" AND something else. Binary, linear thinking is for idiots.

I can't speak for eggieguffer, but I am NOT anti-immigrant and have disagreed with some of the anti-immigrant posts here, particularly when it comes to Muslim immigration. I am not anti-immigrant, I am pro-legal immigration. I want everyone who enters a country to do so legally because that is what is most fair for immigrants. It is the best system. Mass illegal immigration is unsustainable and immigration numbers that exceed the capacity of the government to maintain its level of services places is not sound policy. No one of rational mind would support such a system. You could be the most pro-immigration person in the world and you should still want a system of legal, controlled immigration.

Again, you seem to operate in this concept where people are either all right-wing or left-wing on everything and it's the most cartoonish version of each side. This suggests a lack of higher-level thinking and inattention to detail, as well as low amounts of patience. A

Also, if you need to use an insult version of someone's name in your argument, you probably have a shitty argument to begin with.
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: thunderlips on June 19, 2019, 10:40:09 am
In amerika. Whether a foreigner has lived there 1 year or 40 years. Whether they are there legally or not.
Whether they have acquired citizenship or not. The trumpets and average amerikan citizens and the media
labels them "immigrants' "migrants" and "foreigners"...they don't get the privilege of having a word to separate
themselves from those stigmas and connotations. That's the way it is.
Imagine having such a degree of mental illness that you think America is some sort of oppressive fascist country. It has major problems, especially as world policemen, but for being such an awful place, it sure has a lot of people trying to get in, rather than trying to get out. Real fascist/totalitarian countries have to build walls to keep people in.

I think Hispanic immigrants and refugees have their heads on straighter than some of the left-wingers in our country. They know actual police states and brutality, not "I'm bored and want to add significance to my life by imagining myself as waging some valiant struggle against evil before I log off Instagram and go clubbing" silliness.

Quote
The trumpets and average amerikan citizens and the media
labels them "immigrants' "migrants" and "foreigners"
That generally happens with 1st generation immigrants in any country, which frankly is a bit understandable as many 1st gen immigrants themselves offer a dual/hybrid zone (which is great in my opinion). I think those who insist that they be labeled as "Full Americans" (though that should be the default standard if they are a citizen) are just as ridiculous as those who insist "They aren't Americans". They should be whatever they the individual considers themself, whether that's Full or Aren't or anywhere in between. Or someone can be "Full" AND something else. Binary, linear thinking is for idiots.

I can't speak for eggieguffer, but I am NOT anti-immigrant and have disagreed with some of the anti-immigrant posts here, particularly when it comes to Muslim immigration. I am not anti-immigrant, I am pro-legal immigration. I want everyone who enters a country to do so legally because that is what is most fair for immigrants. It is the best system. Mass illegal immigration is unsustainable and immigration numbers that exceed the capacity of the government to maintain its level of services places is not sound policy. No one of rational mind would support such a system. You could be the most pro-immigration person in the world and you should still want a system of legal, controlled immigration.

Again, you seem to operate in this concept where people are either all right-wing or left-wing on everything and it's the most cartoonish version of each side. This suggests a lack of higher-level thinking and inattention to detail, as well as low amounts of patience. A

Also, if you need to use an insult version of someone's name in your argument, you probably have a shitty argument to begin with.

Most "mass illegal immigration" is fueled by refugees, which by US law have the right to claim asylum on US soil.
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: CO2 on June 19, 2019, 11:36:09 am
got too many people in my inbox complaining about how you "speak down" to everyone
and always try to stir the pot.

I don't believe this for a second. hahahahaha
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: OnNut81 on June 19, 2019, 11:40:39 am
LIC: I refer to myself as an ex-pat.

I think this is where the OP had a valid post.  Often people who are not expats adopt the title because it comes with a certain cachet.  English teachers aren't technically expats because we weren't expatriated from our home countries.  The effort to expand the term expats to include your average hakwan joe has not been undertaken by the local expat chamber of commerce or networking groups.  I'm not sure exactly how you classify the kind of immigrant who gets an apartment and often is placed directly into public schools.  There's certainly a world of difference between those of us who emigrated to take a teaching job and those in the factories.  I always find it a bit funny when an ESL teacher is referring to themselves as an expat.  I like my life here, but to refer to myself as an expat is overreaching. 
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: VanIslander on June 19, 2019, 01:02:41 pm
Plenty of literature, including Hemingway, has described "the expat lifestyle".

Not many people nowadays live it.

See ya in a gin joint in Casablanca.
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: tylerthegloob on June 19, 2019, 01:08:04 pm
got too many people in my inbox complaining about how you "speak down" to everyone
and always try to stir the pot.

omg i have sooooooo many messages in my inbox from people complaining about how YOU speak down to everyone  :laugh: what a coincidence!

got too many people in my inbox complaining about how you "speak down" to everyone
and always try to stir the pot.

I don't believe this for a second. hahahahaha

since when has you not believing something made it not true?
lol
I'm sure you believe you're not a racist, arrogant prick.

doesn't make it not true ;)

says the "i'm chillin" guy. yeah... this response was real chill...

also, i'd love to see the screenshots of people complaining about d'tino. it's strange that they'd be sent to you, someone who has been here for like a week.
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: VanIslander on June 19, 2019, 01:25:33 pm
Taking classes in the local language,
Playing tourist on the weekends, and
Focusing on banking money for the future...

Indeed, that is not very expat like.
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: Colburnnn on June 19, 2019, 01:36:55 pm
bb459, you got some problems lady.

This.
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: stoat on June 19, 2019, 01:41:29 pm
Taking classes in the local language,
Playing tourist on the weekends, and
Focusing on banking money for the future...

Indeed, that is not very expat like.

Taking classes in the local language,
Playing tourist on the weekends, and
Focusing on banking money for the future...

Indeed, that is not very expat like.


The first isn't ex-pat like I agree, but I'm not sure why you think the others aren't. 
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: CO2 on June 19, 2019, 01:43:57 pm
since when has you not believing something made it not true?
lol
I'm sure you believe you're not a racist, arrogant prick.

doesn't make it not true ;)

Quote one racist thing I have ever said in any capacity.

I'll wait.
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: Ronnie Omelettes on June 19, 2019, 02:02:29 pm
Quote one racist thing I have ever said in any capacity.

watch the new Black Mirror Series.

 :huh:

you sir, are an awful racist. 
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: CO2 on June 19, 2019, 02:08:34 pm
Quote one racist thing I have ever said in any capacity.

watch the new Black Mirror Series.

 :huh:

you sir, are an awful racist. 
Well, Striking Vipers did have an awful lot of coloured folk in it. And they were doing some pretty unsavoury stuff on the internet game cafe device.

Can't say it was exactly my cup of tea. When are we going to see more content with straight, white people?

Happy now, bb459?
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: hangook77 on June 19, 2019, 02:52:10 pm
...that we should leave in 2019

When people from other countries move to yall's home country.
I GUARANTEE you don't call them "expats".
They're called "foreigners" and "immigrants"

Both words that the media attaches negative, dirty, poor, criminal connotations to.

So how come when we do the same exact thing and relocate to another country, we get
a seemingly clean/dignified word like "expat" ?
Nope

We are foreigners. We are immigrants. We are alien.
We are the same as the people eggiefugger and mr defartino want to keep OUT of their home countries.

Don't get it twisted.

Are you here permanently?  Have you immigrated to Korea?  Just here for business for a while, hired as a teacher for a time?  Well, you're an expat.  Here for a time. 
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: CO2 on June 19, 2019, 02:58:53 pm
Are you here permanently?  Have you immigrated to Korea?  Just here for business for a while, hired as a teacher for a time?  Well, you're an expat.  Here for a time. 

ex·pat
/ˌeksˈpat/
INFORMAL
noun
1.
a person who lives outside their native country.
Quote
"a British expat who's been living in Amsterdam for 14 years"
adjective
1.
denoting or relating to a person living outside their native country.
Quote
"Gregg is an expat Australian"

Of course, now we'll get a missive about how that's not the real definition and that there are power structures and that  the dictionary was written by Western whites, and if we'd only translate the Myanmarese dictionary definition into Arabic and then into English then maybe we'd understand, but we exclude POC and Muslims so we can't truly.
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: OnNut81 on June 19, 2019, 03:36:30 pm
Expatriate:
'A person who lives outside their native country' (Oxford),[3] or
'living in a foreign land' (Webster's).[4]
These contrast with definitions of other words with a similar meaning, such as:
Migrant:
'A person who moves from one place to another in order to find work or better living conditions' (Oxford),[5] or
'one that migrates: such as a: a person who moves regularly in order to find work especially in harvesting crops' (Webster's);[6]
or
Immigrant
'A person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country' (Oxford),[7] or
'one that immigrates: such as a: a person who comes to a country to take up permanent residence (Webster's).[8]

I think Wikipedia has a pretty good summation.  When I went and lived and didn't work for a year in Phuket and just bummed around with no intention or needing of finding work I would've ben part of the expat community.  When I come to Korea specifically looking for employment I am still a person who lives outside a foreign country but I am more considered a migrant worker or émigré. 

Apart from his racist offshoots, I agree that OP was correct in that the people most likely to try and paint ESL teachers with the "expat" brush would be ESL teachers.  I am not going to argue with anyone about whether we can be considered part of the expat crowd, but for the expat community at large we're looked at in a slightly different (less favourable?) light from the diplomat or engineer, for example.  We came here to seek employment.  Out ESL schools abroad didn't send us over to manage or troubleshoot. 
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: VanIslander on June 19, 2019, 05:30:43 pm
The expat novel is a subgenre.

Some characters are trying to escape their life back home.

Others are trying to find themself, going through a process of self-actualizing.

Others are hopelessly at the end of the world.
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: williamwhite on June 19, 2019, 06:17:55 pm
Expatriate:
'A person who lives outside their native country' (Oxford),[3] or
'living in a foreign land' (Webster's).[4]
These contrast with definitions of other words with a similar meaning, such as:
Migrant:
'A person who moves from one place to another in order to find work or better living conditions' (Oxford),[5] or
'one that migrates: such as a: a person who moves regularly in order to find work especially in harvesting crops' (Webster's);[6]
or
Immigrant
'A person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country' (Oxford),[7] or
'one that immigrates: such as a: a person who comes to a country to take up permanent residence (Webster's).[8]

I think Wikipedia has a pretty good summation.  When I went and lived and didn't work for a year in Phuket and just bummed around with no intention or needing of finding work I would've ben part of the expat community.  When I come to Korea specifically looking for employment I am still a person who lives outside a foreign country but I am more considered a migrant worker or émigré. 

Apart from his racist offshoots, I agree that OP was correct in that the people most likely to try and paint ESL teachers with the "expat" brush would be ESL teachers.  I am not going to argue with anyone about whether we can be considered part of the expat crowd, but for the expat community at large we're looked at in a slightly different (less favourable?) light from the diplomat or engineer, for example.  We came here to seek employment.  Out ESL schools abroad didn't send us over to manage or troubleshoot. 
Words and definitions matter.  Thanks for actually defining the words that the OP insists are interchangeable and just selectively applied to different people based on racist ideologies.  They are not.
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: oglop on June 19, 2019, 07:41:36 pm
i'm not an expat or an immigrant. i'm an.......
   :afro: 8) economic migrant 8)  :afro:
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: teacher1988 on June 19, 2019, 09:39:05 pm
Any negative connotation you attach to the words 'migrant' and 'immigrant' are your own problem OP.

I call myself and others immigrants all the time largely according to OnNut81's provided definitions; intent/status to live permanently or not.

Most foreigners I've met in Korea would not be considered immigrants, especially those from the west. It's something like 95%+ of ESL teachers plan to move on to another country some time in the future. Even the foreigners who are migrant workers / students (eg. people from countries generally regarded as poorer than Korea) whom I've met here, around 75-85% plan to move on to another country. Korea is not exactly a high in demand country to immigrate to. Compare that to USA, where most foreigners there do plan to live there permanently.
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on June 19, 2019, 09:53:05 pm
I took apart OP already, but I will say that while I and many others just use expat interchangeably, there are probably a few types out there who use it to make themselves sound more worldly when in fact they aren't. So that part might have a slight kernel of truth.

"I'm not someone who had no clue what the heck to do after college (not that there's anything wrong with that), I'm an expat, not some lowly immigrant or migrant laborer. I enjoy wine and have some white dress pants." But you'll find these people of all races and nationalities. They'll always put some way-too-positive spin on their situation in life.

"I'm not an ESL Teacher, I'm actually a novelist and ESL is just my side gig."
"Have you published anything?"
"No, but..."
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: LIC on June 20, 2019, 08:55:35 am
I have lived in a country that is not my birth country for nearly 14 years. In that time I have never been back to my birth country nor will I ever see its shores again. I have been married for most of that time with a permanent spouse visa. I own property and a house and have a family and a permanent job.

If I'm not an ex-pat, what should I call myself?
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: OnNut81 on June 20, 2019, 09:07:25 am
I have lived in a country that is not my birth country for nearly 14 years. In that time I have never been back to my birth country nor will I ever see its shores again. I have been married for most of that time with a permanent spouse visa. I own property and a house and have a family and a permanent job.

If I'm not an ex-pat, what should I call myself?


Sounds like a pretty clear cut definition of an immigrant to me.  The "nor will I ever see its shores again" cements it.  Not something an expat would state. Congratulations on a successful immigrant experience. 
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: LIC on June 20, 2019, 09:10:10 am
I have lived in a country that is not my birth country for nearly 14 years. In that time I have never been back to my birth country nor will I ever see its shores again. I have been married for most of that time with a permanent spouse visa. I own property and a house and have a family and a permanent job.

If I'm not an ex-pat, what should I call myself?


Sounds like a pretty clear cut definition of an immigrant to me.  The "nor will I ever see its shores again" cements it.  Not something an expat would state. Congratulations on a successful immigrant experience. 


You are looking at it the wrong way around. I call myself an ex-pat. Locals call me an immigrant. You can agree or not.
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: OnNut81 on June 20, 2019, 09:20:20 am
I have lived in a country that is not my birth country for nearly 14 years. In that time I have never been back to my birth country nor will I ever see its shores again. I have been married for most of that time with a permanent spouse visa. I own property and a house and have a family and a permanent job.

If I'm not an ex-pat, what should I call myself?


Sounds like a pretty clear cut definition of an immigrant to me.  The "nor will I ever see its shores again" cements it.  Not something an expat would state. Congratulations on a successful immigrant experience. 


You are looking at it the wrong way around. I call myself an ex-pat. Locals call me an immigrant. You can agree or not.

Obviously you can call yourself whatever you want, but since you don't fit the description of a typical ex-pat, why do you refer to yourself as one?  You've clearly immigrated and settled.  No shame in that.  By the same token, I don't think of myself by any title really, so I'm not begrudging you the term ex-pat.  It's just when I think of an ex-pat your situation wouldn't be one I'd consider. 
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: VanIslander on June 20, 2019, 09:36:09 am
Identity politics sucks.
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: zola on June 20, 2019, 10:19:01 am
I have lived in a country that is not my birth country for nearly 14 years. In that time I have never been back to my birth country nor will I ever see its shores again. I have been married for most of that time with a permanent spouse visa. I own property and a house and have a family and a permanent job.

If I'm not an ex-pat, what should I call myself?


Sounds like a pretty clear cut definition of an immigrant to me.  The "nor will I ever see its shores again" cements it.  Not something an expat would state. Congratulations on a successful immigrant experience. 


You are looking at it the wrong way around. I call myself an ex-pat. Locals call me an immigrant. You can agree or not.
You are 100% an immigrant. You can call yourself the King of France, but you are still an immigrant.
You are the kind of person that the absolute fruit loop of an OP is talking about. Well done.
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on June 20, 2019, 10:36:21 am
I took apart OP already, but I will say that while I and many others just use expat interchangeably, there are probably a few types out there who use it to make themselves sound more worldly when in fact they aren't. So that part might have a slight kernel of truth.

"I'm not someone who had no clue what the heck to do after college (not that there's anything wrong with that), I'm an expat, not some lowly immigrant or migrant laborer. I enjoy wine and have some white dress pants." But you'll find these people of all races and nationalities. They'll always put some way-too-positive spin on their situation in life.

"I'm not an ESL Teacher, I'm actually a novelist and ESL is just my side gig."
"Have you published anything?"
"No, but..."

hahahaahahaha
"took apart"
for being a predictable mediocre white man you sure think quite highly of yourself.

oh wait,
that's how all of you think lol.

carry on
You haven't been around here a long time, have you?

Just because someone thinks a certain way doesn't make them a certain race.
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on June 20, 2019, 10:43:59 am
Semantics.
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: tylerthegloob on June 20, 2019, 11:05:23 am
Quote
wouldn't say I know "nothing" about the people I call out.
their posts and comments make it pretty easy to see their bigotry ;)

oh cool! so where did CO2 say something racist? or where did I say something racist? you've accused both of us and since it's so easy for you to see you should be able to quickly point it out.
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: LIC on June 20, 2019, 11:17:12 am
ex-pat here
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: VanIslander on June 20, 2019, 11:46:25 am
Moderator message:

Remember to avoid flaming.

Attack the message not the messenger.
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: kyndo on June 20, 2019, 01:10:15 pm
      I agree with OP that "expat" is a BS word in that it seems to have very different meanings depending on who you ask. Even the dictionary definitions can be interpreted differently.
       Any word that doesn't give a reasonably clear meaning when used in context is kinda rubbish.

       Personally, when I think of the word, I tend to think that it refers to any individual who lives in an other country for a longish period of time (but not permanently). Being a product of my culture, I'll admit that the word usually brings to mind wealthier professionals and retirees rather than blue collared labourers (who would be called migrant workers despite qualifying just as much for the expat label).
   Like I said, it's a frustratingly fuzzy word.
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: JNM on June 20, 2019, 09:11:44 pm
I think the deciding line is if you are closer to *being* a housekeeper or *having* a housekeeper?

I would say most ESL teachers are about in the middle.

Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: guppy1000 on June 20, 2019, 10:56:56 pm
I would classify teachers, hogwan through university, as "guest workers", not expats.

And since most of the hoe's in South Korea are out of the price range of people on teaching salaries, you can't even be a sexpat.

The world just isn't fair, is it..
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: Allpointseast on June 21, 2019, 08:10:27 am
  Let's see. The word "expat" comes from the Latin "ex" meaning out of " plus "patria" (which means fatherland or native country in both Latin and Greek), and it indicates someone who was sent out of their native country on important business, and has established themselves abroad. It could also refer to retired people. In a British context, the tabloids talk about "British expats" especially "retired expats in the sun," but foreigners are always "dodgy immigrants." This difference is malicious and unfair.

I suspect the word "expat," came into play during the time of the British Empire. British people joining the Indian Civil Service, when it was a British possession or doing professional jobs n India would have been expats. So too would be the missionaries, or business people and diplomats at the foreign legations in Peking, before 1900, although China was independent. These expats were seen as "improving the natives."

The false difference between foreign immigrants and British expats expats caused so much confusion and prejudice recently that they voted for Brexit.
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: hangook77 on June 21, 2019, 01:51:01 pm
i'm not an expat or an immigrant. i'm an.......
   :afro: 8) economic migrant 8)  :afro:


You're a permanent resident, citizen, or a legal immigrant?  Most of us English teachers aren't in that
category and are going home soon enough. 
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: ar97 on June 21, 2019, 02:34:08 pm
I always understood expat to be a resident of a country who is not a tourist (which is say lives in a country for 6+ months) but also is not a permanent resident/generally is planning to return to their home country at some point. However this comes from an American perspective and obviously definitions and understandings will change depending on where you came from or what country you're talking about.

If my understanding of expat is correct, I think America uses "immigrant" because a lot of the non-citizens living in the US do seek to permanently live in America/gain citizenship. Essentially, I think 'immigrant' tends to have a connotation of wishing to live in a country permanently/settle down there forever. 'Immigrant' in America tends to mean people with green cards/permanent residence cards and not temporary workers (like the H-2B visa). This is going off of my understanding of colloquial uses of "immigrant" and not official, government uses.
 In the context of Korea, I think people use 'expat' and not 'immigrant' for a lot of the same reasons above; non-Korean citizens (in this case, EFL teachers) aren't seeking to gain citizenship, but to earn money and ultimately return to their native country. In this case, economic immigrant would also work.
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: VanIslander on June 21, 2019, 05:32:02 pm
I always understood expat to be a resident of a country who is not a tourist (which is say lives in a country for 6+ months) but also is not a permanent resident/generally is planning to return to their home country at some point.
And those at the end of the road, the ones that see no future and are escaping their past, the boozed and listless.

Quote
However this comes from an American perspective...
"Expat" is an English word and comes from the lifestyle overseas of the English (and other Brits) and Americans.
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: HappyPlanetAbuser on June 21, 2019, 11:47:47 pm
But would teachers be considered to be expats by the diplomatic expat community?
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: Allpointseast on June 22, 2019, 03:43:07 am
  You might want to ask them, but most of the diplomats I met in Seoul were from non-English speaking countries.
  The British Embassy in Seoul has a bar where the expats gather after work to drink. But you can't just walk in. It's by invitation only. Lots of my friends were queuing to get in there during 2016, and there was someone who was a member and would invite people in as guests. They went because of some kind of novelty or kudos attached to being invited to the "British Embassy Bar," but the bar itself was in no way special. It was only open on Fridays between 5 p.m. and 9 p.m. But if you were a member you were a proper expat, not an economic migrant.
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: HappyPlanetAbuser on June 22, 2019, 05:04:29 am
Yes, exactly. I have always felt a bit unwelcome at these expats gatherings, socially shunned almost as soon it became clear I was not an expat but a teacher.
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: JNM on June 22, 2019, 10:01:44 am
  You might want to ask them, but most of the diplomats I met in Seoul were from non-English speaking countries.
  The British Embassy in Seoul has a bar where the expats gather after work to drink. But you can't just walk in. It's by invitation only. Lots of my friends were queuing to get in there during 2016, and there was someone who was a member and would invite people in as guests. They went because of some kind of novelty or kudos attached to being invited to the "British Embassy Bar," but the bar itself was in no way special. It was only open on Fridays between 5 p.m. and 9 p.m. But if you were a member you were a proper expat, not an economic migrant.

I’ve been invited, but never went. I never knew it was a big deal.
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: eggieguffer on June 22, 2019, 10:29:30 am
  You might want to ask them, but most of the diplomats I met in Seoul were from non-English speaking countries.
  The British Embassy in Seoul has a bar where the expats gather after work to drink. But you can't just walk in. It's by invitation only. Lots of my friends were queuing to get in there during 2016, and there was someone who was a member and would invite people in as guests. They went because of some kind of novelty or kudos attached to being invited to the "British Embassy Bar," but the bar itself was in no way special. It was only open on Fridays between 5 p.m. and 9 p.m. But if you were a member you were a proper expat, not an economic migrant.

I’ve been invited, but never went. I never knew it was a big deal.

It's not particularly special, except you can get foreign beers, good choice of whiskies etc.. at reasonable prices.  British council teachers get automatic membership. The rest of the clientele are people from the embassy and local businessmen, you also get a lot of Koreans networking.  There's a bit of looking down noses from some but most people are friendly. What was special was the tennis court and swimming pool facilities BC teachers could use in the summer. You could go there in the middle of the day during the week and have it all to yourself. Tennis court gardens and swimming pool right in the centre of Seoul. You were able to take guests and your kids there too if you had them, until the ambassador's wife complained about the noise and the perk of being able to take guests was removed.
Title: Re: "expat" is a bs word...
Post by: VanIslander on June 24, 2019, 10:38:03 am
An expat wants to go day drinking with Seth and Rihanna.