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International => North America => USA => Topic started by: Mr.DeMartino on March 23, 2019, 09:44:35 am

Title: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 23, 2019, 09:44:35 am
It's over. Except it's not over. About time.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/22/politics/robert-mueller-report/index.html
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: kengreen on March 23, 2019, 10:18:11 am
It's not over.

Now that we know that Trump isn't a traitor, the progressives will pivot to other issues--such as Stormy Daniels or opening a hotel in Russia back in the day.

Their endless bull will never cease.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Savant on March 23, 2019, 11:20:51 am
But her e-mails.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Twisted88 on March 23, 2019, 04:33:10 pm
he's guilty man.. only a matter of time.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Chester Jim on March 24, 2019, 03:37:23 am
You mean they spent two years investigating and no collusion.

I find it hard to believe  that they actually thought  there was collusion.

I can see though on cnn and msnbc that they are acting disappointed. 
I mean was this a gamble on a basketball game?   They said that they were certain.  This is the party that supposedly has science on its side. 
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Ronnie Omelettes on March 24, 2019, 07:38:45 am
a: a sitting president can't be indicted.

b: the report hasn't been released yet.

Their endless bull will never cease.

fixed for you

welcome to the wonderful, filthy world of american politics, truly a ratings-war circus.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: 67uicv29 on March 24, 2019, 05:59:05 pm
What is it like to care so much, to froth at the mouth over something you have no control over, to be so impotent IRL that your only outlet is to type boring screeds on this website, of all places?

It feels so good to just not care that much about it.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Savant on March 24, 2019, 09:42:46 pm
Investigations:

- Trump Foundation (The Trump Family's personal ATM machine)
- Trump Organization (Deutsche  Bank money laundering links)
- Trump Inaugural Committee (Pay to play, enriching the Trumps)
- Jared's WhatApp communications with Foreign Powers
- Jared's/Ivanka Security Clearances
- Moscow Tower Project
- Trump's Personal Tax Returns
- Trump's Business Tax Returns
- What is the point of Eric and Don Jr.?
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: gogators! on March 24, 2019, 10:23:46 pm
So why this?
Quote
At least 16 associates of Donald Trump had contacts with Russians during the 2016 campaign or transition, according to public statements, court filings, CNN reporting, and reporting from other news outlets.

These communications came in the form of face-to-face meetings, phone calls, text messages, emails and video chats.
In the months after the election, Trump and his senior officials repeatedly denied that there had been any contact whatsoever with Russians during the campaign or that there were any ties between the campaign and Russians.

They weren't importing caviar.

And why did Wikileaks go into action immediately after the Access Hollywood tape was released? Mighty convenient.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: gogators! on March 24, 2019, 10:28:18 pm
All this time, HRC should have been under investigation by a special council (https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/435029-as-russia-collusion-fades-ukrainian-plot-to-help-clinton-emerges)...that creature resembling a woman, is the one that should be going to jail, along with anyone else involved in the FISA scandal (including the NObama administration) the  Steele dossier, and these "suicides" of folks that have worked for, or have been close to, the Cintons recently (and over the years).

How anyone could support a venomous witch such as her, is astonishing.  Then again, I look at her voting base....and those of the "Democrat" Party and it becomes clear.  Identity politics...STUPID loud-mouthed b***hes (one of them wears a hijab and should NEVER have been elected to office), cowardly beta-males, single-issue voters (we all know whom), misguided souls sold under the ruse of "progress" (but with no clear definition of what that is) and "liberalism" (yet, killing babies is NOT under the moral realms of liberty)....how anyone cannot see the divisive tactics leads me to believe that those under the banner of the Comm...er, Democrat Party, are a threat to the Constitution of the United States. 

Right...the report has not been fully disclosed and while there are no further indictments, we shall have to wait and see...what we are allowed to see, at least.

OH...and President Trump rocks for his latest E.O.  And, while I am not much a FN sort of person, and Hannity CAN be a bit much at times, I did like this segment.

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6017150816001/#sp=show-clips
Dig the misogyny.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr C on March 25, 2019, 07:28:24 am
What I find really weird here is the silence from Dumpf's twitter account.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Ronnie Omelettes on March 25, 2019, 08:35:18 am
What I find really weird here is the silence from Dumpf's twitter account.

Quote
“I just want to tell you, America is the greatest place on Earth. The greatest place on Earth.”

Quote
1. Finland
2. Denmark
3. Norway
4. Iceland
5. Netherlands
6.  Switzerland
7.  Sweden
8. New Zealand
9. Canada
11. Australia
15. UK
16. Ireland
19. USA

apparently not Don, the Finnish, when they've finished raking the forest floor, have something to say about that.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: NorthStar on March 25, 2019, 09:17:07 am
Quote
It was the usual corrupt media play - no due process, biased speculation, incredible hatred toward a person they despise; Donald Trump.
 
The worst offenders were CNN, MSNBC, The New York Times, and The Washington Post.  To say their coverage of the Mueller investigation was disgraceful is an extreme understatement.  Using anonymous sources and false assertions, these news organizations ginned up a phony narrative that divided the country and interfered with its governance.
 
And what price will these organizations pay?  Who will hold them accountable for all the deceit and incompetence? The sad truth is that some Americans will continue to pay attention to them - that’s the sheep component.
 
But the fault is not only on the left.  A bunch of “never-Trumpers” on the right have embarrassed themselves as well.
 
Journalists have the absolute obligation to cover an important story like the Mueller investigation aggressively.  That’s a given.  Accusations of governmental misconduct must be vetted.  But when personal or partisan emotion enter into news coverage, that’s corrupt.
 
And that’s what happened during the last two years with the Mueller investigation.  The situation became so extreme that Robert Mueller, himself, issued a statement saying a report that President Trump had ordered his attorney, Michael Cohen, to lie about the Russia thing was false.
 
That story came from the despicable website Buzzfeed and was quickly picked up by the hate-Trump media which is the game they play: disseminating unsubstantiated information from biased sources.
 
Now, the hate-Trump media will insinuate that the President did “something” wrong even though Mueller spent $30 million and cannot define what that “something” might be.
 
However, the partisan wolves will continue to howl, and jaded Americans will tune in to hear the deceitful braying, and vote for political charlatans who could not care less about truth or fairness.
 
This entire ordeal is terribly bad for America.  Honesty in reporting has collapsed and partisan loathing is now the coin of the realm.  This is not really about President Trump, although his election lighted the fuse.
 
No, this is about a Republic that has granted the press the power to make billions of dollars but, under the Constitution, is not accountable to anyone on how they derive profit.
 
And we now know beyond any doubt exactly how many media operations are making money.  That is by peddling false narratives and rank hatred.
 
Paging Edward R. Murrow.
 

https://www.billoreilly.com/b/Wolves-and-Sheep/-796349483748467197.html
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: thunderlips on March 25, 2019, 09:19:19 am
One  done. More to follow. The NY state AG poses the biggest threat, IMHO, as Trump can't pardon himself.


 http://www.npr.org/2019/03/23/701692174/the-mueller-report-is-done-but-investigations-related-to-trump-will-go-on (http://www.npr.org/2019/03/23/701692174/the-mueller-report-is-done-but-investigations-related-to-trump-will-go-on)
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Ronnie Omelettes on March 25, 2019, 09:26:16 am
billoreilly.com

wait! did you....did you just post something bill o'reilly said?  really?  bill o'reilly?

(https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f4857991cd676944758d073b1c4c285c9fb99d0300378be00eb8b167e866183f.gif)
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: NorthStar on March 25, 2019, 09:33:45 am
Now that
Quote
special counsel Robert Mueller has completed his investigation, it is tempting to breathe a sigh of relief and assume that our long national nightmare is over. Resist the temptation, the assumption is false.

We are not close to the end. Not by a long shot.

In fact, I believe the last two years, as traumatic as they were, will prove to be the easier part of the nightmare, because Mueller dealt only with whether Donald Trump’s 2016 campaign conspired with Russia to swing the election. Based on what we know so far, especially that no more indictments are coming, it appears that Mueller’s answer is no, there was no collusion or obstruction of justice.

If true, this is an enormous vindication for Trump, who insisted all along that he had done nothing wrong. Supporters were understandably in a celebratory mood, with some saying on Twitter that it felt like 2016 election night all over again.

Meanwhile, Trump’s vindication is a devastating rebuke to Democrats and their media handmaidens, all of whom insisted his guilt was guaranteed. Their legacy is that they ruined their own credibility, and their continuing efforts to destroy him by innuendo and investigation can only add to their disgrace.

For them, too, Friday night was like a repeat of Trump’s election victory.


Oh, to be a fly on the wall at Hillary Clinton’s house.

But even as we learn the details of what Mueller found, there remains a giant black hole about the very origins of the FBI investigation that led to his appointment in the first place.

It is astonishing, for example, that at this late date, we still do not know what evidence the disgraced James Comey and his FBI had to open the original probe in the summer of 2016, and whether there was anything other than the fatally tainted Russian dossier.

Nor do we know of any compelling reason why Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein later decided a special counsel was necessary to get to the bottom of the swirling accusations of collusion that started during the campaign and mushroomed after Trump’s upset victory.

Recall that Rosenstein effectively urged Comey be fired in May of 2017, then eight days later mysteriously decided the action warranted an investigation from outside the Justice Department.

Rosenstein’s conflicts of interest are appalling and the Mueller appointment cast a cloud over the presidency and fueled conspiracy theories about the legitimacy of Trump’s election. The true impact is incalculable, but we know those claims led to the resistance movement and that Mueller was used by some Dems to justify boycotting the State of the Union speech and refusing to support any of Trump’s appointments or legislation.

The reckless talk of impeachment also surely had some negative effect on the behavior of our allies and adversaries.

Now, with Mueller finished, it is time to give equal attention to the other side of the story, of how we got here. The questions can be boiled down to two.

Was the initial decision to investigate Trump’s campaign an honest mistake by the Obama administration? Or was it an attempt to rig the election in favor of Clinton, and when that failed, overthrow a duly elected president?

Those outstanding issues are as worthy of complete answers as those that Mueller investigated. In addition to knowing whether there was an improper relationship between a candidate and a foreign power, Americans also deserve to know what was going on inside their own government and whether it was simply incompetent or thoroughly corrupt, or some combination of the two.

Put another way, what did President Obama and his administration do, and why did they do it?

The task of finding out falls to the new attorney general, William Barr. He will have his plate full in the coming days deciding how much of the Mueller report can legally be made public and explaining his decision to Congress.

I don’t underestimate the importance of the issue, but Barr must not be consumed by it. Indeed, he needs to deliver on another promise he made during his Senate confirmation hearings, where he said he was alarmed by the demonstrated bias against Trump by top FBI agents such as Peter Strzok and Lisa Page, and suggested he was not satisfied the FBI and the Justice Department had been fully held accountable.

The key sequence involved questions from the Judiciary panel’s Republican chairman, Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina.

Graham: “Do you promise me as attorney general — if you get this job — to look and see what happened in 2016?”

“Yes, Mr. Chairman,” Barr replied.

“How do these statements sit with you?” Graham asked, referring to the Page and Strzok texts showing they hated Trump and wanted Clinton to win the election.

“I was shocked when I saw them,” Barr answered.

Graham: “Please get to the bottom of it . . . we’re relying on you to clean this place up.”

Getting to the bottom of it would mean a criminal probe of Comey and his former deputy, Andrew McCabe, along with others in the leadership ranks of the FBI. Did they, as it appears, fail to disclose to the court that Clinton’s team commissioned and paid for the Russian dossier and that its allegations were unverified when they sought approval to spy on the Trump campaign?

If the answers are yes, they may have committed felonies, as did those who authorized any misleading court applications, including Rosenstein.

A criminal probe would also mean uncovering any role played by the reprehensible John Brennan, then head of the CIA, James Clapper, head of national intelligence, and Susan Rice, Obama’s national security adviser, in creating the FBI probe and leaking classified information.

Among the questions they need to be asked under oath is, did you have any role in spreading the Clinton-funded dossier to the media? Did you leak the names of Trump associates picked up on wiretaps?

In addition, of course, there are also fundamental doubts about the integrity of the FBI’s investigation of Clinton’s handling of classified e-mails. The doubts include what role, if any, Loretta Lynch, then the attorney general, and others in the Obama administration played in the suspect exoneration of Clinton.

Because there are so many questions about the Clinton case and the origins of the Trump probe, the best and only fair solution is for Barr to appoint a new special counsel. Given the critical issues involved, even-handedness demands a prober free of conflicts with the former officials cited.

Unlike the Mueller probe, which ranged too far and took too long, this investigation should be focused on credible allegations against Clinton and top officials of the Obama administration. And it must be completed before the 2020 election so voters can know the whole story of what happened in 2016 and the early days of the Trump presidency before they vote again.

Then, and only then, can we say that our long national nightmare is over.

https://nypost.com/2019/03/23/how-to-end-our-national-nightmare-probe-hillary-clinton-again/
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: NorthStar on March 25, 2019, 09:46:19 am
Quote
wait! did you....did you just post something bill o'reilly said?  really?  bill o'reilly?


Sure did ;D


Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 25, 2019, 09:52:40 am
What I find really weird here is the silence from Dumpf's twitter account.

(https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/trump-tweet-no-obstruction-no-collusion-1.jpg)

WOMP WOMP

For two years I've told people that Russia collusion is a bunch of bull. Now let me say...TOLD YA SO TOLD YA SO. TOLD YA TOLD YA TOLD YA SO.

You've been wrong about Trump not getting the nomination. You've been wrong about Trump losing to Clinton. You've been wrong about Trump collapsing the economy. You've been wrong about Trump starting nuclear war. You've been wrong about Trump engaging in mass deportations. You've been wrong about Muslims in concentration camps. And you've been wrong about Trump being a Russian puppet.

Time to change the filter with which you view the world.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Ronnie Omelettes on March 25, 2019, 10:04:00 am
For two years I've told people that Russia collusion is a bunch of bull. Now let me say...TOLD YA SO TOLD YA SO. TOLD YA TOLD YA TOLD YA SO.

You've been wrong about Trump not getting the nomination. You've been wrong about Trump losing to Clinton. You've been wrong about Trump collapsing the economy. You've been wrong about Trump starting nuclear war. You've been wrong about Trump engaging in mass deportations. You've been wrong about Muslims in concentration camps. And you've been wrong about Trump being a Russian puppet.

Time to change the filter with which you view the world.

yeah, you go there demartian!!  you put that little red MAGA cap on and get out there and you stick it to anyone who thinks they're better or smarter than you.  you do it, boy!!  those guys who don't have unlimited data on their phones?  screw 'em.  those Brits who drink 'proper' beer?  tell 'em to do one.  'cheapskates'?  get out of here.
 people with depression?  cheer up and then get out of here.  stick it to them, you deserve it!!  wow, you really told them.... those stinking liberals/lefties and their trying to smear your little choir boy of a guy, trump.  two years of wins for you.... i mean really.... *fist pump* hell yeah...

hold on...

...the summary is only four pages long....
...it doesn't exonerate trump...

...wait a sec...
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 25, 2019, 10:28:14 am
...it doesn't exonerate trump...
Prosecutors and special counsels don't exonerate. They only decide not to charge.

Quote
...the summary is only four pages long....
Yes, the summary summarizes.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr C on March 25, 2019, 10:36:39 am
What I find really weird here is the silence from Dumpf's twitter account.

(https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/trump-tweet-no-obstruction-no-collusion-1.jpg)

WOMP WOMP

For two years I've told people that Russia collusion is a bunch of bull. Now let me say...TOLD YA SO TOLD YA SO. TOLD YA TOLD YA TOLD YA SO.

You've been wrong about Trump not getting the nomination. You've been wrong about Trump losing to Clinton. You've been wrong about Trump collapsing the economy. You've been wrong about Trump starting nuclear war. You've been wrong about Trump engaging in mass deportations. You've been wrong about Muslims in concentration camps. And you've been wrong about Trump being a Russian puppet.

Time to change the filter with which you view the world.
Starting nuclear war? Collapsing the economy?  Muslims in concentration camps?

Liar much?

Also, Trump did lose to Clinton, by 2 million + votes.  And, he is in thrall to Russia--that's a SDNY investigation, though.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 25, 2019, 03:16:16 pm
Starting nuclear war? Collapsing the economy?  Muslims in concentration camps?

Liar much?
Should have clarified in that part I was speaking using the collective "you" rather than you personally.

Quote
Also, Trump did lose to Clinton, by 2 million + votes.
Trump won the election. Clinton ran to be popular, Trump ran to win. It doesn't matter who scores more total runs in the World Series, all that matters is that you win 4 games to 3.

The 45th President of the United States: Donald J. Trump. Not Hillary Rodham Clinton.

If you guys want him gone, you're going to have to vote him out. Hopefully you'll nominate someone halfway sane like Biden (although he has serious problems in getting the nomination) or Buttigieg and maybe I and many others will consider voting Dem. Or the Dems can scream at the sky and go to the crying room with the safe space and demand more hearings and impeachment and nominate some whack-a-doodle SJW far-leftist and get 4 more years.

Quote
And, he is in thrall to Russia--that's a SDNY investigation, though.
Yeah, the evidence is there. Right next to the thermite paint and the fake moon landing set.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Ronnie Omelettes on March 25, 2019, 03:40:39 pm
The 45th President of the United States: Donald J. Trump. Not Hillary Rodham Clinton.

demartian, like we said.  we're really made up for you.  well done.  the 'liar' and 'con-man' that you love so much and aspire to, was shown by last months hand-picked attorney general, in his four-page summary of a massive document, to not have colluded with Russia at the moment, but not 'exonerated' of loads of other stuff.  honestly, chum. your last two years, and 6 guzillion bazzillion posts, have been well worth it.  not one wasted minute in your life in the last two years.  you've won the internet.  as I write this, there is a tear in my eye.  truly made up for you....  really....  you really should travel and live in another country, it'll do you good.  give you some perspective.

note:  this thread will be used against demartian, when trump is proven to have done something...
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Adel on March 26, 2019, 03:23:17 am
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/03/24/us/politics/barr-letter-mueller-report.html

Isn't it remarkable how a two year investigation can be summarized in a four page letter that took only a couple of days to compose? If you don't smell bullS**t you must be a Trump cultist.

Nevermind though, eventually a far more substantial amount of the report will be made available to  congress where the appropriate body for dealing with high crimes and misdemeanors of a president will sort through it along with public hearings.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Ronnie Omelettes on March 26, 2019, 07:40:31 am
Quote
MCCONNELL on Barr summary of Mueller conclusions: "In any sane political moment all of this would be very welcome news to all Americans, in a normal time, but we know that amazingly the reaction in some corners of the far left has seemed not to be celebration, but disappointment"

Quote
McConnell blocks Schumer measure calling for Mueller report to be made public

what a surprise!

 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: hangook77 on March 26, 2019, 07:55:56 am
Let the leftist butthurt begin.  Oh, yeah, the creepy porn lawyer is going to jail soon too. 
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: NorthStar on March 26, 2019, 08:03:33 am
Once in awhile, a a gem or two is discovered in the NYT.  While Baker wrote about as much of a fair piece as he could (considering the platform), once again, his lack of questioning regarding the Obama administration, the FBI and HRC's involvement in all this (in which case, it seems the Nobabama White House was involved). 

Again, it is a fair article by Baker...I'm just so surprised the NTY let it slip through the cracks. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/24/us/politics/trump-robert-mueller.html

Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 26, 2019, 08:08:53 am
Isn't it remarkable how a two year investigation can be summarized in a four page letter that took only a couple of days to compose? If you don't smell bullS**t you must be a Trump cultist.
Yes, someone, with a staff, summarized a book in 4 pages.

It's called a summary. It summarizes.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: NorthStar on March 26, 2019, 08:20:52 am
More importantly, was it, or was it NOT, written in Times New Roman?!
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 26, 2019, 09:29:43 am
More importantly, was it, or was it NOT, written in Times New Roman?!
Comic Sans or Papyrus
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Adel on March 26, 2019, 09:37:17 am
Isn't it remarkable how a two year investigation can be summarized in a four page letter that took only a couple of days to compose? If you don't smell bullS**t you must be a Trump cultist.
Yes, someone, with a staff, summarized a book in 4 pages.

It's called a summary. It summarizes.
Mueller wasn't without staff but it still took a couple of years but this summary was knocked up in a couple of days over the weekend.
So what was the rush?
Isn't it also odd that Barr was left to judge whether to proceed over an obstruction charge despite expressing an opinion critical of the enquiry a year earlier?
Wasn't the reasoning also odd? Namely one couldn't be guilty of obstruction of justice if there wasn't enough evidence of the original charge of collusion. If that were the case it would follow that a cover was fine as long as you are successful enough to cover up enough evidence to prevent prosecution.
Barr certainly was an excellent choice for Trump wasn't he?
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 26, 2019, 10:21:25 am
Mueller wasn't without staff but it still took a couple of years but this summary was knocked up in a couple of days over the weekend.
Yes, a summary takes a fraction of the time it takes to produce something. It took Shakespeare quite some time to write Henry V. It would take me an afternoon to read it and the evening to summarize it in four pages. Same with any movie or novel or some series I binged on Netflix.

It's called summarizing.

Quote
So what was the rush?
Because everyone was frothing and foaming for it to be released and would insinuate a coverup if it took a long time.

And if his summary his garbage, why hasn't Mueller said anything?

Quote
Wasn't the reasoning also odd? Namely one couldn't be guilty of obstruction of justice if there wasn't enough evidence of the original charge of collusion. If that were the case it would follow that a cover was fine as long as you are successful enough to cover up enough evidence to prevent prosecution.
Barr certainly was an excellent choice for Trump wasn't he?
Probably because it would be REALLY hard to indict the President on obstruction charges for firing his own FBI Director, which he is allowed to do under the Constitution, when that same FBI Director apparently did not believe 100% that the President wasn't a Russian collaborator.

Think about it this way- If the Director of the FBI told Obama "I think we should let the investigation play out into whether you were really born in Kenya.", do you think that would be grounds for shitcanning him? I do.

If your FBI Director is unsure about whether a whack-a-doodle conspiracy theory about you is true and seems to think that you might be scum, that person doesn't really belong on your staff, do they?

That and Comey also apparently was a source of many leaks to the press.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Adel on March 26, 2019, 10:27:03 am
Mueller wasn't without staff but it still took a couple of years but this summary was knocked up in a couple of days over the weekend.
Yes, a summary takes a fraction of the time it takes to produce something. It took Shakespeare quite some time to write Henry V. It would take me an afternoon to read it and the evening to summarize it in four pages. Same with any movie or novel or some series I binged on Netflix.

It's called summarizing.

Quote
So what was the rush?
Because everyone was frothing and foaming for it to be released and would insinuate a coverup if it took a long time.

And if his summary his garbage, why hasn't Mueller said anything?

Quote
Wasn't the reasoning also odd? Namely one couldn't be guilty of obstruction of justice if there wasn't enough evidence of the original charge of collusion. If that were the case it would follow that a cover was fine as long as you are successful enough to cover up enough evidence to prevent prosecution.
Barr certainly was an excellent choice for Trump wasn't he?
Probably because it would be REALLY hard to indict the President on obstruction charges for firing his own FBI Director, which he is allowed to do under the Constitution, when that same FBI Director apparently did not believe 100% that the President wasn't a Russian collaborator.

Think about it this way- If the Director of the FBI told Obama "I think we should let the investigation play out into whether you were really born in Kenya.", do you think that would be grounds for shitcanning him? I do.

If your FBI Director is unsure about whether a whack-a-doodle conspiracy theory about you is true and seems to think that you might be scum, that person doesn't really belong on your staff, do they?

That and Comey also apparently was a source of many leaks to the press.

All speculative BS without having access to the report and hence not reading any of the evidence though isn't it.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Andyman on March 26, 2019, 11:32:35 am
Quote
Think about it this way- If the Director of the FBI told Obama "I think we should let the investigation play out into whether you were really born in Kenya.", do you think that would be grounds for shitcanning him? I do.

This is a weird reference to make in defense of Trump.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Ronnie Omelettes on March 26, 2019, 12:00:33 pm
All speculative BS without having access to the report and hence not reading any of the evidence though isn't it.

speculative BS? that is all it is at the moment, even if the Republicans do think it's premature celebration time, especially with all their bleatings about apologising to trump etc.  McConnell has already said he won't release the whole thing.  how is anyone supposed to make an 'educated' judgement, if nothing is released.

Quote
Think about it this way- If the Director of the FBI told Obama "I think we should let the investigation play out into whether you were really born in Kenya.", do you think that would be grounds for shitcanning him? I do.

This is a weird reference to make in defense of Trump.

there is no 'think about it this way' equivalent here.  that birtherism nonsense is not even comparable with the Mueller report.   :rolleyes: and to suggest otherwise is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Savant on March 26, 2019, 12:12:58 pm
It was about Russian adoption.

Doesn't everyone know that?
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 26, 2019, 12:21:32 pm
This is a weird reference to make in defense of Trump.
That's why I chose it. It's to put the worst of the other side into a situation and reverse the roles to have you consider whether the principles should still apply. Birtherism was a nonsense conspiracy theory. Same with Russia Collusion.

If one of your officials isn't certain you aren't part of some lunatic conspiracy, then you have every right to sack them.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 26, 2019, 12:25:34 pm
speculative BS? that is all it is at the moment, even if the Republicans do think it's premature celebration time, especially with all their bleatings about apologising to trump etc.  McConnell has already said he won't release the whole thing.  how is anyone supposed to make an 'educated' judgement, if nothing is released.
It's clear that no matter what is released, some people will refuse to accept it because they're so invested in this idea that Trump is some sort of Russian colluder.

Quote
there is no 'think about it this way' equivalent here.  that birtherism nonsense is not even comparable with the Mueller report.   :rolleyes: and to suggest otherwise is ridiculous.
Yes, the two are not directly comparable. But both are conspiracy theories and a Chief Executive should be able to fire any subordinate who isn't convinced he isn't part of some outlandish conspiracy theory.

Trump did not obstruct justice, and you wanting it to be so does not make it true.

Remember the saying "Facts have a liberal bias". What we're seeing here is the bias part is true, but not the facts. No matter how many facts are given and what is determined, some people will just stick with their bias.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Andyman on March 26, 2019, 12:40:29 pm
I agree with Ronnie Omlettes. I don't think these things are comparable. Russia did interfere in the election, and the FBI was tipped off to possible Trump team involvement as a result of the activities of George Papadopoulos, who was basically a bag man for various interest groups, some of them foreign, many connected to oil and gas. He told an Australian diplomat about Russia's possession of e-mails relating to Hillary Clinton in May, 2016, two months before the DNC hacking was revealed. By this time, he had already met with Trump, in person, about national security issues, where he suggested brokering a meeting between Trump and Putin. He then lied to the FBI about some of this, and got caught.

Add to this the fact that Paul Manafort had openly worked on behalf of pro-Putin Ukranian factions and concealed much of his activities from federal authorities, including the fact that he continued taking money from these sources while involved with the Trump campaign.

Those two factors alone are enough to warrant further investigation. Not even remotely similar to the "lunatic conspiracy" of birtherism peddled by none other than Donald J. Trump.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 26, 2019, 12:52:58 pm
I agree with Ronnie Omlettes. I don't think these things are comparable. Russia did interfere in the election, and the FBI was tipped off to possible Trump team involvement as a result of the activities of George Papadopoulos, who was basically a bag man for various interest groups, some of them foreign, many connected to oil and gas. He told an Australian diplomat about Russia's possession of e-mails relating to Hillary Clinton in May, 2016, two months before the DNC hacking was revealed. By this time, he had already met with Trump, in person, about national security issues, where he suggested brokering a meeting between Trump and Putin. He then lied to the FBI about some of this, and got caught.

Add to this the fact that Paul Manafort had openly worked on behalf of pro-Putin Ukranian factions and concealed much of his activities from federal authorities, including the fact that he continued taking money from these sources while involved with the Trump campaign.

Those two factors alone are enough to warrant further investigation. Not even remotely similar to the "lunatic conspiracy" of birtherism peddled by none other than Donald J. Trump.

Fine, come up with whatever comparable situation you think applies. Say, Hillary Clinton having too many ties to the Chinese and some FBI guy saying "He isn't sure that she isn't inappropriately trading favors with the Chinese and compromising interests." Clinton would have every right to sack them. The fact is that the Chief Executive has to be able to trust her/his subordinates and s/he has to have their trust that s/he's not corrupt. If that doesn't exist, then they can dismiss them.

And there's still the question of whether they identified Comey as a source of leaks. If this was revealed to Mueller, then it would certainly be cause for dismissal and not obstruction, no matter what Trump said publicly.

If you look at this with the "neutral standards" filter, then you can arrive at the proper conclusion and understand why things are the way they are. If you apply the "Trump is evil and any justification, no matter how flimsy, should get him thrown out" filter, then you will have problems. This filter is why I don't put stock in BENGHAZI!!!!! and EMAILS!!!!!! like some RW partisans who post here. It's why I can say Obama was generally a positive president for this country. It's why I can go on the threads about cop shootings or anti-Muslim bias and be like "I'm not sure on this one, but this one definitely" while others reflexively go only one way or the other.

The TDS filter has one criticizing a summary for...summarizing.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr C on March 26, 2019, 01:20:53 pm

Trump did not obstruct justice, and you wanting it to be so does not make it true.

Cite?

Certainly not the Mueller Report: "while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him".
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Ronnie Omelettes on March 26, 2019, 01:31:13 pm

Trump did not obstruct justice, and you wanting it to be so does not make it true.

Cite?

Certainly not the Mueller Report: "while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him".

demartian is celebrating the release of a four-page summary that was written by someone hand-picked by trump himself.  what is in the full report is not known, not matter much he thinks the 'summary' has said it all.  why he is celebrating the 'winz' is beyond me.   such a short summary of such an important document creates more questions than it answers, until it's released in full.  this is not a right/left thing, this is transparency in government.  you don't have something like this for two years and then just try and brush it under the carpet and say it's done.  the mind boggles, that some people are satisfied with a summary, and think that others should also think that it is case closed, it's incredible.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: hippo on March 27, 2019, 03:37:20 am
https://taibbi.substack.com/p/russiagate-is-wmd-times-a-million
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Chester Jim on March 27, 2019, 04:04:26 am
No collusion
No obstruction
No indictments. 

I wish someone on here would make some sense.

When you have to be so circular and indirect, then chances are that you are lying. 
This isn’t quantum physics. 
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Savant on March 27, 2019, 07:08:46 am
No collusion
No obstruction
No indictments. 

I wish someone on here would make some sense.

When you have to be so circular and indirect, then chances are that you are lying. 
This isn’t quantum physics.

You Trumpers can't even do basic algebra.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Ronnie Omelettes on March 27, 2019, 07:30:31 am
if the summary is an honest 'interpretation' of the whole document, then release the whole document.  the mind boggles.  all this crowing about how you've been 'vindicated' and ordering the media who oppose you to be banned from interviewing you is completely ridiculous.  show the report.  as an aside, British politics may be in the shits at the moment, but we really can't hold a candle to the US for the sheer circus of batshit crazy bollocks.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: thunderlips on March 27, 2019, 07:47:30 am
if the summary is an honest 'interpretation' of the whole document, then release the whole document.  the mind boggles.  all this crowing about how you've been 'vindicated' and ordering the media who oppose you to be banned from interviewing you is completely ridiculous.  show the report.  as an aside, British politics may be in the shits at the moment, but we really can't hold a candle to the US for the sheer circus of batshit crazy bollocks.

 :laugh: :laugh: Keep telling yourself that.

(http://media1.tenor.com/images/cb71e5bba11fb459976f40037052d02e/tenor.gif?itemid=11848461)
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 27, 2019, 10:24:50 am
if the summary is an honest 'interpretation' of the whole document, then release the whole document.  the mind boggles.  all this crowing about how you've been 'vindicated' and ordering the media who oppose you to be banned from interviewing you is completely ridiculous.  show the report.  as an aside, British politics may be in the shits at the moment, but we really can't hold a candle to the US for the sheer circus of batshit crazy bollocks.
They need to go through on what should be redacted because it deals with either A) Sensitive Intelligence or B) Ongoing Investigations and releasing that information would be a violation of procedure.

Given the Democratic track record of prediction, you might not want to put your eggs into the release basket.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Savant on March 27, 2019, 03:34:33 pm
Trump did nothing wrong but he just spent the last 2 years acting and looking as guilty as f@ck.

Could have sorted the country out but spent obscene amounts of time tweeting about the "Witch Hunt".
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Chester Jim on March 28, 2019, 06:24:57 am
Rachel Maddie lost 500k viewers after the muller report found no collusion! 
She has about 2.5 mil viewers.   
This is not good for democrats
Just wow.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Ronnie Omelettes on March 28, 2019, 06:43:59 am
Rachel Maddie lost 500k viewers after the muller report found no collusion! 
She has about 2.5 mil viewers.   
This is not good for democrats
Just wow.

i mean that is like.....you know....that is all the proof you need.  half a million gone?  democrats are screwed!
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Ronnie Omelettes on March 28, 2019, 09:08:05 am
Redacted Mueller report:
Quote
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓no▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
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▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓Donald Trump ▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓is▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓not a ▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓criminal▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓Hillary Clinton' ▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓is▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
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▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓working with Russian intelligence. ▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓no▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓co▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓llusion.▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓

Hey, I got a copy of Barr's redacted Mueller report.  Hot of the presses!!
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 28, 2019, 09:55:19 am
Could have sorted the country out but spent obscene amounts of time tweeting about the "Witch Hunt".
You do realize that it takes like, 1 minute to think of and compose a tweet, right?

Hey, I got a copy of Barr's redacted Mueller report.  Hot of the presses!!
May I ask as to your explanation for Mueller not contradicting Barr's summary? Mueller once explicitly rejected information in a Buzzfeed report concerning his investigation. Why not now?
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: NorthStar on March 28, 2019, 10:05:13 am
https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/03/mueller-report-major-victory-president-trump/

Quote
Trump achieved a major victory.

Just in case you haven’t yet gotten your fill of post-Mueller commentary, I offer my download in list form, hoping that some of these key takeaways will find consensus agreement (they won’t, but they should), and hoping that they will serve as a useful summary for those looking for a concise breakdown of what has just transpired.

1. President Trump did not collude with Russia to steal the election. Of course, all I am saying here is what the two-year, $25 million investigation said. It did not merely fail to prove collusion — it made this finding “despite multiple offers from Russian-affiliated individuals to assist the Trump campaign.” If the point of the special counsel was to determine whether President Trump and his campaign colluded with Russia to steal this election, we now have our answer and can presumably move on with our daily practice of not listening to each other, misrepresenting each other’s views, and choosing sides in each issue with as much tribal bias as humanly possible.

2. President Trump did not obstruct justice. Not only did both Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein (no friend to Trump) and new Attorney General William Barr (as respected a legal practitioner as D.C. has had in a generation) both say so, but our own logic and human reason mandates this conclusion. For the firing of James Comey to constitute obstruction, President Trump would have had to fire someone he had every legal right to fire because that person was investigating a crime that President Trump did not commit. It is an incoherent view, and any insistence from the Democrats to keep fighting over this issue will prove fatal to the Democrats’ cause.

3. Now, before we get carried away here, the statement that President Trump did not collude with Russia (he didn’t), or could not collude with Russia (truly, that campaign team could not have done so — just in terms of basic acumen and sophistication), in no way means he would not collude with Russia. We already know from the Donald Jr. escapade what these folks think about the ethics of collusion. So I believe that he is, all at once, legally vindicated, operationally stunted, and, yes, morally flexible. All of these things strike me as somewhat undeniable by any pro-Trump or anti-Trump observer.

4. I find it hard to avoid the conclusion that Robert Mueller looks like an extremely objective and fair jurist in this whole escapade. I understand that many feel that some of the tactics along the way have been extreme (the early-morning raid on Manafort, for example), but does anyone believe that Paul Manafort was not as guilty as O. J. of the crimes he was accused of committing? At the end of the day, all nearly anyone knows about Mueller is that he has been radio silent through this entire affair, and in the end, went where the evidence brought him, which is an overwhelmingly unpopular place with the intelligence complex that he supposedly was loyal too.

I have been sandbagging this note from someone I respect as much as anyone I have ever met, and who worked closely with Mueller for many years: “I did not know Comey, only knew a few things about him. I had met him and had the opportunity to speak with him briefly. He has proven himself to be a narcissist, a coward, and an opportunist. He damaged the FBI, and the country for his own benefit with no regard for the consequences. I blame him for the recent failures of FBI leadership in DC. Mueller, I know. He is a man of integrity. He is an honorable man and I believe he will bring the investigation to a conclusion without leaving any matters unattended. Mueller is a no nonsense, hard nosed patriot. He is not afraid of his detractors nor is he a politician. He has my confidence.”


It seems hard to conclude differently at this point in time.

5. Trump’s innocence in the collusion charge notwithstanding, there is no reason to give him a pass for his ridiculous choice of lieutenants throughout the campaign, the early part of his administration, and for much of his adult life. A very simple question can be asked here: Would there ever have been an investigation had President Trump not retained the services of a lowlife such as Paul Manafort, or used Roger Stone as a political consultant, or rebuffed the advice of everyone under the sun to avoid Michael Flynn, or hired a degenerate like Michael Cohen? I am not suggesting that President Trump deserved this attack, because he did not. I am not advocating for a guilt-by-association ethic. I am merely saying the same thing I say to my own kids: Never forget that whom you associate with will end up sticking to you, either positively or negatively.

6. The Democrats risk losing the most winnable election of their lifetimes for a lot of reasons, first among them being the possibility they will nominate some type of pro-infanticide socialist who has sworn allegiance to a social-justice mission of identity politics that is repugnant to the vast majority of Americans. But they are also driving off the cliff with this insane narrative of Trump as a Russian stooge. There are cooler heads in their leadership who will do what they can to avoid this, but it is a political loser, and for good reason. Hillary Clinton lost the election in 2016 fair and square, and the $25 million that has been spent to delegitimize President Trump will now create ten times the benefit to his reelection campaign, twenty if they do not move on.

7. And last but not least, there is a significant amount of shame that ought to be spread around here. Yes, I agree with my friend David French that the Sean Hannity/Seth Rich conspiracy should not be forgiven. But as it pertains to this case, the opportunism of James Comey, the outrageous behavior of John Brennan, and of course the media coverage (from CNN to MSNBC to Buzzfeed to the major networks) have been nothing short of despicable. They ought not be forgotten, and all of these people deserve the humiliation they are enduring this week.
19   

The aftermath to the special counsel’s report is playing out much the same way that the lead-up did: in line with each observer’s own tribalistic instincts. This is the state of American politics now, and there is no real end in sight. The Left has beclowned itself throughout this saga, and yet the points I make above (see Nos. 3–5 in particular) are likely to be met with opposition from many on the Right, for the simple reason that they don’t go along with a narrative many want. I believe it is up to the president to lead the way out of this mess, to bring the China trade deal to a close, and to spend the next 18 months leading, guiding, and speaking with a more credible and morally authoritative voice.

And as has been the case since January 2017, the last thing I worry about in that objective for the president is Russian collusion. Rather, I just worry about his own temperament and discipline. But at least for this week, he has the benefit of achieving a major victory over a powerful enemy who wished to do him harm. His move.

Well said.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: NorthStar on March 28, 2019, 10:11:37 am
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/barack-obama-and-robert-muellers-report/


Quote
What Was Obama's Role?

In the wake of the Mueller report’s completion, Barack Obama continues to stand aloof — a god king exempt from the trifling concerns of mortals.

The mainstream media remain invincibly incurious regarding the former president’s role in the Russia affair. Presumably, underlings in Obama’s national-security apparatus were running about obtaining FISA warrants, leaking, unmasking, and spying on a presidential campaign and transition without the former president’s involvement, let alone direction. He remained oblivious despite Lisa Page’s September 2, 2016 text to Peter Strzok that “potus wants to know everything we’re doing.” Everything? There was a heckuva lot going on.

You’d think that there might be one or two questions for the man who’d assembled one of the most incompetent national-security teams in history. Congressional Democrats maintain that there were Russians behind nearly every tree and shrub in Washington during the 2016 election cycle, yet those charged with protecting the U.S. and its election system against such foreign interference — DNI James Clapper, CIA Director John Brennan, Attorney General Loretta Lynch, FBI Director James Comey, Deputy FBI Director Andrew McCabe — seem  primarily to have been disturbed about such interference after Trump won. Interestingly, news reports indicate that when the National Security Council’s cybersecurity experts were poised to respond to Russian election meddling, Rice told them to “stand down.” Attorney General Lynch didn’t even give Trump a standard defensive briefing about Russian attempts to infiltrate his campaign. Their nonfeasance and malfeasance are of little concern to the press. Rather, the press seeks out their wise commentary.

The press spent two-and-a-half years obsessed with everything pertaining to the Trump campaign and Russia but precious little time, if any, unpacking the implications of Rice’s email to herself about the January 5, 2017 meeting  concerning the Russia investigation among Obama, Rice, Comey, Vice President Joe Biden, and Deputy Attorney General Sally Yates. Rice sent the email on her government computer at 12:15 p.m. January 20, 2017 — minutes after Trump was inaugurated. It  read, “The President stressed that he is not asking about, initiating, or instructing anything from a law enforcement perspective. He reiterated that our law enforcement team needs to proceed as it normally would by the book.”
20   

The press behaves as if the upper reaches of the federal government were on automatic pilot during the 2016 election cycle; as if Obama’s underlings had free reign over the place and he was a mere bystander.

What did President Obama know and when did he know it? What did he do and when did he do it? Will somebody in the press, at long last, ask him?
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: NorthStar on March 28, 2019, 10:15:08 am
https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/03/steele-dossier-hillary-clinton-campaign-trump-russia-investigation/



Quote
The ‘salacious and unverified’ documents invaded the body politic like a cancer.

The Mueller investigation has concluded, and Mueller’s declaration has now entered the public record: “The investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.” But it’s worth reflecting on how the contrary view — the firm conviction that Trump did coordinate with Russia — became so deeply embedded in the hearts and minds of millions of Americans. And it’s worth reflecting on why another set of Americans could look at actual, troubling evidence of Russian contacts and simply not care at all.

The answer is complex, but at its heart is a set of documents compiled into a collection known as the “Steele dossier.” The dossier, characterized by James Comey under oath as “salacious and unverified,” consisted of opposition research compiled by a former British intelligence officer and commissioned by the Hillary Clinton campaign. Taken as whole, it undermined the credibility of American intelligence agencies, corrupted elements of the media, and distorted the public debate. It may well be one of the most malignant documents in modern American history.

I’m not going to link to the dossier, but it’s worth remembering its core claim. As explained in this December analysis in Lawfare, the document not only contained claims that Russia possessed lurid, compromising information on Donald Trump, it also made the sensational allegation that there existed a “well-developed conspiracy of co-operation between [Trump and his associates] and the Russian leadership,” including an “intelligence exchange [that] had been running between them for at least 8 years.” The very existence of this allegation detonated like a bomb in the American body politic.

It had an obvious distorting effect on the intelligence community and parts of the American government. To be clear, I believe that the Trump-Russia investigation would have existed even without the dossier — I’m with Trey Gowdy on that point. As Devin Nunes wrote in his famous February 2018 memorandum alleging FISA abuse, information about George Papadopoulos triggered the opening of the FBI’s counterintelligence investigation in late July 2016. Moreover, the multiplicity of problematic Trump-team contacts with Russians or Russian operatives justified an investigation regardless of the dossier’s contents or the dossier’s use by the FBI.

The dossier was used to form a crucial part of the Carter Page FISA-warrant applications, however: The Nunes memo notes that “Deputy Director McCabe testified . . . that no surveillance warrant would have been sought from the FISC without the dossier information.” In addition, elements of the dossier made it to lawmakers including Harry Reid and John McCain, and the FBI ultimately even briefed then-president-elect Trump about its contents. While the summary it provided Trump is still largely redacted, it is easy to imagine how the existence of such a document could enrage the president.

I urge you to read Chuck Ross’s well-reported account of the comprehensive efforts to “seed the dossier with reporters and government officials.” The efforts were in fact so comprehensive — and the existence of its allegations such an open secret with the press — that I even heard about it in Tennessee during the later stages of the campaign. I was flat-out told that there was evidence Trump had been “compromised” by Russian intelligence.

Salacious rumor-mongering is par for the course in politics. I’ve heard the wildest stories about even the most staid politicians. And when politicians aren’t staid, well, there are no boundaries. To this day, there are folks lurking around the dark quarters of the Internet absolutely convinced that the Clintons are responsible for a string of murders in Arkansas.

But even in the face of widespread rumors, responsible journalists — or journalists who aspire to responsibility — do not print the rumor, at least not without verifying or debunking it. They should not print the rumor even if they know that law enforcement is looking into it.

Let’s try a hypothetical. Imagine if you’re a reporter and you know that local police are investigating a wild claim against a prominent local figure. You’ve started to look into the claim yourself, but so far everything you’ve learned contradicts the allegations. Do you dump it into the public domain anyway, heedless of the impact on the public or the person?

Well, if you’re BuzzFeed, that’s exactly what you do. While it may well be newsworthy that the FBI is looking into claims that Trump is “compromised,” there’s a vast difference between that factual report and just tossing a raw opposition-research file into the public square and telling people to “make up their own minds.”

That makes no sense. None. Between taking kids to soccer practice and dance lessons, parents aren’t able to determine whether Michael Cohen went to Prague. As I wrote at the time, “individual Americans aren’t free-standing intelligence agencies, ready and able to investigate alleged Russian operations in Moscow.” If a journalist hears a claim, he should investigate. Not punt to the public.

BuzzFeed’s decision had two immediate effects. First, it demonstrated the extent to which an influential media outlet would depart from best practices when it possessed negative allegations against Trump. Second, the instant the claims were published, millions of Americans became convinced they were true. Combine the recent pain of a shocking electoral loss, Russia’s intervention in the campaign to help Trump and sow chaos generally, Trump’s incredibly odd behavior toward Putin, and the emerging reports (some overblown) of unusual contacts between Trump’s team and Russians or Russian assets, and Democrats were primed to believe the worst. Moreover, the dossier’s memo formats, which looked like movie versions of intelligence reports, enhanced their public credibility. They were official-looking.

And so we were off to the races. An odd sort of consensus developed on the left and the right. In essence, it was this: The dossier is the scandal. On the left, a kind of blind faith emerged that the purpose and ultimate inevitable outcome of the Mueller investigation were to prove the core claims (if not all the specifics) of the dossier. People weren’t singing songs to Mueller with the expectation and hope that he’d simply lay out the facts. They believed that they already knew the facts, it was up to Mueller to come through with the proof.

On the right, when the dossier became the scandal, that meant that misconduct — even lies about contacts with Russians or Russian assets — that fell far short of the dossier’s grandiose claims was treated simply as no big deal. If a meeting with a Russian lawyer with the intention of getting damaging information about Hillary Clinton or alleged efforts to establish back-channel communications with WikiLeaks through Roger Stone fell far short of the dossier’s claims, then they were nothing to worry about — a distraction from the “real” scandal of the “Russia hoax.”

Moreover, a veritable industry sprang up that attempted to tie the entire Trump-Russia investigation to the dossier, to somehow prove that absent the dossier, there never would have been a comprehensive investigation of Russian contacts with the Trump campaign, much less a special counsel. Troubling conduct and contacts by Donald Trump Jr., Paul Manafort, Roger Stone, and others were swept aside as meaningless. The dossier was the chief weapon in the effort to delegitimize the investigation itself, and it was a potent weapon indeed.

For all of their other accomplishments, the Clintons are leaving American public life with a legacy of lies and lawlessness. Bill Clinton’s shameless behavior, perjury, and obstruction of justice led to his impeachment. Hillary’s serial deceptions and her grotesque mishandling of classified information led to her defeat. The dossier, however, in its sheer negative impact on American public life, may be her most infamous “achievement.” Her campaign — and ultimately Hillary herself — bears responsibility for the chaos it sowed.
88   

But key members of the media and the government share in that responsibility. The dossier redefined the debate. It was a cancer, and it sickened American culture and politics. Our nation is weaker because that document entered the bloodstream of the body politic.

Indeed.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Ronnie Omelettes on March 28, 2019, 10:21:04 am
Could have sorted the country out but spent obscene amounts of time tweeting about the "Witch Hunt".
You do realize that it takes like, 1 minute to think of and compose a tweet, right?

to suggest trump 'thinks' is in itself a joke.  well done. 

Quote
Hey, I got a copy of Barr's redacted Mueller report.  Hot of the presses!!
May I ask as to your explanation for Mueller not contradicting Barr's summary? Mueller once explicitly rejected information in a Buzzfeed report concerning his investigation. Why not now?

this investigation is finished.  no doubt, Barr and Mueller will be called to Congress to testify, therefore why say anything now.  whereas previously, investigation ongoing.  full report done now.  barr wrote crap summary.  if correct representation of report, then release full report.  only way.  nothing to worry about. easy enough for you to understand?

also, National Review?   :cheesy:
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: NorthStar on March 28, 2019, 10:35:48 am
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also, National Review?
 

Yeah, it is beyond your collection of finger puppets and color by numbers books , but you should always seek self improvement. 
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: NorthStar on March 28, 2019, 10:40:26 am
On the side...https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fox-news-andrew-napolitano-mueller-conspiracy_n_5c9bd6f0e4b072a7f603d70c

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Fox News’ Andrew Napolitano: ‘Of Course’ Mueller Found ‘Some Evidence Of A Conspiracy’

Donald Trump claimed “total exoneration” after Attorney General William Barr released his summary of the special counsel report on interference in the 2016 U.S. elections. But Fox News judicial analyst Andrew Napolitano told viewers Wednesday that the president’s legal troubles are not over.

The former judge said Barr’s summary indicated that “some evidence of a conspiracy” was found during the investigation, which only stokes further interest in the full report.

Barr wrote that special counsel Robert Mueller’s team did not conclude that the Trump campaign had colluded with Russian actors to affect the outcome of the election, but he also said the report did not totally exonerate the president from obstructing justice to interfere with the special counsel’s probe.

“Why would the attorney general reveal any ambivalence on the part of the government about whether or not the president had complied by the law?” Napolitano wondered. “By doing so, he’s invited people to want to dig deeper than the four-page summary.”

Barr wrote that Mueller left the decision of bringing obstruction charges against the president up to him. The attorney general then determined that the evidence gathered during the special counsel’s investigation did not establish that Trump committed a crime.

“When [Barr] said in his four-page letter that the government could not establish the existence of a conspiracy, he meant it could not establish it beyond a reasonable doubt,” Napolitano said. “Did [Mueller] find some evidence of a conspiracy? Of course, they did. If they didn’t, [Barr] would have told us.”

The Fox News analyst predicted that Mueller’s report would inevitably be released, a demand Democrats have been making since Sunday, when Barr submitted his summary of the special counsel’s key findings to Congress.

In a later appearance on host Neil Cavuto’s Fox Business program, Napolitano continued to opine on Trump’s legal battles ahead.

“In the 700-page summary ... there is undoubtedly some evidence of a conspiracy and some evidence of obstruction of justice, just not enough evidence ... to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt,” Napolitano said, adding that ethically, prosecutors cannot bring charges unless evidence meets that standard.

“Once the 700 pages come out, the Democrats and other Trump opponents will have a field day with what is in there,” he added. “If there was no evidence of conspiracy and no evidence of obstruction, the attorney general would have told us so. He didn’t. So there is something in there.”

Trump said on Monday that it “wouldn’t bother [him] at all” if Mueller’s full report was made available to the public, suggesting his support for its release.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 28, 2019, 10:48:43 am
Could have sorted the country out but spent obscene amounts of time tweeting about the "Witch Hunt".
You do realize that it takes like, 1 minute to think of and compose a tweet, right?

to suggest trump 'thinks' is in itself a joke.  well done. 


Yes, Donald Trump doesn't think at all.  :rolleyes: Do you seriously believe that? Liar and a conman, yes. But he ain't stupid and the more you dismiss him as stupid, the easier it is for him to win.

I've said it before and I'll say it again- many on the left are like the college kid who strolls into the casino and sits down at the poker table with their scientific theory of poker and doing all the odds and having some "system". Trump's the guy who doesn't even really look at his hand. He just looks at you and bets accordingly and ends up taking your money. And of course the college kid flips a lid over this because they have this world view that because THEY went to college, they MUST be smarter.

Trump may not be book smart, and his judgment at times is suspect, but the man is cunning.

barr wrote crap summary.

How do you know that? That's just your guess. Based on the fact that Mueller hasn't come out and publicly disagreed, I suspect that the summary closely matches Mueller's conclusions.

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this investigation is finished.  no doubt, Barr and Mueller will be called to Congress to testify, therefore why say anything now.  whereas previously, investigation ongoing.  full report done now.  barr wrote crap summary.  if correct representation of report, then release full report.  only way.  nothing to worry about. easy enough for you to understand?

Do you have wet brain?
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: NorthStar on March 28, 2019, 10:51:28 am
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Do you have wet brain?

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Andyman on March 28, 2019, 11:23:41 am
Trump supporters. honest question... Are you in favour of the full report being released, minus some sensitive intelligence information, or testimony that could compromise a future trial? How about sworn testimonies from Barr and Mueller?

Just wondering what the "man on the street" Trump supporter thinks about this. I'd imagine that you probably think Trump has been exonerated by the report, and therefore wouldn't have any problem with it being made public. If senior Republicans try to prevent that from happening, what will your reaction be? Do you trust people like Mitch McConnell to act in the broad interests of the American people, irrespective of party interests?

Again, those aren't rhetorical questions. I'm honestly interested in your answers.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 28, 2019, 11:42:50 am
Again, those aren't rhetorical questions. I'm honestly interested in your answers.
Let it come out. At it's worst, it will be all the stuff that has already been said.

A prediction: The full release of the report will give a few nuggets to the left, but there will be some SERIOUS questions raised about the whole genesis of this thing. I also think there's a chance that TrumpCo. might be "fake pretending" when it comes to their slow release of this, much like I think was going on with Trump trashing Mueller.

Barr has said he will release the report within a matter of weeks, not months. That's fine.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Ronnie Omelettes on March 28, 2019, 11:59:13 am
Trump supporters. honest question... Are you in favour of the full report being released, minus some sensitive intelligence information, or testimony that could compromise a future trial? How about sworn testimonies from Barr and Mueller?

Just wondering what the "man on the street" Trump supporter thinks about this. I'd imagine that you probably think Trump has been exonerated by the report, and therefore wouldn't have any problem with it being made public. If senior Republicans try to prevent that from happening, what will your reaction be? Do you trust people like Mitch McConnell to act in the broad interests of the American people, irrespective of party interests?

this is exactly it.  trump's sheeple taking a victory lap on the basis of a summary.  release the full report.  then see what happens.  everything else is just speculative hot air from demartian and his fellow sheeple. 
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 28, 2019, 12:02:28 pm
this is exactly it.  trump's sheeple taking a victory lap on the basis of a summary.  release the full report.  then see what happens. everything else is just speculative hot air from demartian and his fellow sheeple.
This line of argument from the people who suspected that Trump was a Russian agent.... :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Chester Jim on March 29, 2019, 01:35:58 am
Nice argument.

You’ll get your report in weeks not months.  Hopefully months, because why give such a crappy party what they want.

I hope it’s months.

I mean, why give them more bs to spin off from this complete fraud story? 

Let them struggle and strain for a month or two.  They will get into some other bs, then when they try to bring up the mueller report several weeks from now, people will sigh and say oh not this again?

Sweeeeeet!
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Ronnie Omelettes on March 29, 2019, 06:45:18 am
I mean, why give them more bs to spin off from this complete fraud story? 

Let them struggle and strain for a month or two.  They will get into some other bs, then when they try to bring up the mueller report several weeks from now, people will sigh and say oh not this again?

like trump and his eunuch son-in-law did with the Khashoggi murder?  yes.  old news?  he's dead, why bother?  forget about it. 
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: tylerthegloob on March 29, 2019, 07:15:27 am

because why give such a crappy party what they want

I hope it’s months.
...
Let them struggle and strain for a month or two.

it's rare that you meet someone this honest about putting party before country.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 29, 2019, 08:36:40 am
like trump and his eunuch son-in-law did with the Khashoggi murder?  yes.  old news?  he's dead, why bother?  forget about it.
What should they have done? Sever all ties with Saudi Arabia? Do we know whether or not there was more to Khashoggi than what the public knows?
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: tylerthegloob on March 29, 2019, 08:49:55 am
like trump and his eunuch son-in-law did with the Khashoggi murder?  yes.  old news?  he's dead, why bother?  forget about it.
What should they have done? Sever all ties with Saudi Arabia? Do we know whether or not there was more to Khashoggi than what the public knows?

Would you agree that there could be more to the Mueller report than what the public knows?
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Ronnie Omelettes on March 29, 2019, 09:41:33 am
like trump and his eunuch son-in-law did with the Khashoggi murder?  yes.  old news?  he's dead, why bother?  forget about it.
What should they have done? Sever all ties with Saudi Arabia? Do we know whether or not there was more to Khashoggi than what the public knows?

Would you agree that there could be more to the Mueller report than what the public knows?

 :laugh:

of course there isn't.  you've shone a light on demartian's blinkered attitude.  luring and then killing a dissident journalist is fine as they give America loads of money (not to mention trump's son-in-law is in bed with the Saudis, no conflict of interest there at all), where as a legitimate two-year investigation into trump, is worth forgetting about now as it'd been summed up in a four page summary.  both stink of corruption but not equivalent at all in demartian's eyes.   :laugh: 

pow!  thread finished!!  The end!! 끝! 
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 29, 2019, 09:53:16 am
like trump and his eunuch son-in-law did with the Khashoggi murder?  yes.  old news?  he's dead, why bother?  forget about it.
What should they have done? Sever all ties with Saudi Arabia? Do we know whether or not there was more to Khashoggi than what the public knows?

Would you agree that there could be more to the Mueller report than what the public knows?
There could be, but Mueller hasn't opposed the summary. Have you actually gone and looked at what everyone is charged with? Of you look at it in detail it's so obvious how little there is.

Go and read some work by Matt Taibbi from Rolling Stone, Aaron Maté from The Nation, Michael Tracy, Glenn Greenwald, Jimmy Dore, and Jordan Chariton. These are progressives who were skeptical of the Trump-Russia stuff. They took incredible amounts of flak and put their careers and livelihoods in jeopardy.

They told you- The media was overselling ghis. The evidence flimsy. The premise was ridiculous. The investigative logic was suspect and on and on.

Why assume Trump's guilt when it comes to something so far-fetched? Tax evasion? Sure. Russian conspiracy? Really?
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 29, 2019, 09:54:45 am
like trump and his eunuch son-in-law did with the Khashoggi murder?  yes.  old news?  he's dead, why bother?  forget about it.
What should they have done? Sever all ties with Saudi Arabia? Do we know whether or not there was more to Khashoggi than what the public knows?

Would you agree that there could be more to the Mueller report than what the public knows?

 :laugh:

of course there isn't.  you've shone a light on demartian's blinkered attitude.  luring and then killing a dissident journalist is fine as they give America loads of money (not to mention trump's son-in-law is in bed with the Saudis, no conflict of interest there at all), where as a legitimate two-year investigation into trump, is worth forgetting about now as it'd been summed up in a four page summary.  both stink of corruption but not equivalent at all in demartian's eyes.   :laugh: 

pow!  thread finished!!  The end!! 끝!

Notice you didnt answer the question about "What should they have done?"
You think our reaction would have been different under Clinton or Obama?
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Ronnie Omelettes on March 29, 2019, 10:15:30 am
like trump and his eunuch son-in-law did with the Khashoggi murder?  yes.  old news?  he's dead, why bother?  forget about it.
What should they have done? Sever all ties with Saudi Arabia? Do we know whether or not there was more to Khashoggi than what the public knows?

Would you agree that there could be more to the Mueller report than what the public knows?

 :laugh:

of course there isn't.  you've shone a light on demartian's blinkered attitude.  luring and then killing a dissident journalist is fine as they give America loads of money (not to mention trump's son-in-law is in bed with the Saudis, no conflict of interest there at all), where as a legitimate two-year investigation into trump, is worth forgetting about now as it'd been summed up in a four page summary.  both stink of corruption but not equivalent at all in demartian's eyes.   :laugh: 

pow!  thread finished!!  The end!! 끝!

Notice you didnt answer the question about "What should they have done?"
You think our reaction would have been different under Clinton or Obama?

because it was a stupid question.  trump's reaction was to shrug his shoulders and say the exact same nonsense you did. 'they give us money, they'll give it to someone else otherwise'.  who is that lurking in the background?  Kushner? 

Quote
Clinton or Obama?

whataboutery at its worst.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 29, 2019, 10:43:05 am
because it was a stupid question.  trump's reaction was to shrug his shoulders and say the exact same nonsense you did. 'they give us money, they'll give it to someone else otherwise'.  who is that lurking in the background?  Kushner? 

Dude, we all know you don't have any ideas yourself.

Quote
whataboutery at its worst.  :rolleyes:
It's not whataboutery to show how something would be standard policy. It's not 'whataboutery' to point out that your criticism of someone is invalid because their decision was the same decision that any other person with a reasonable chance at the office would have made.

It points out YOUR hypocrisy and YOUR lack of a counterproposal. You're not criticizing it because it was the WRONG decision, you're criticizing it because of the person making the decision.

and dude...

Quote
of course there isn't.  you've shone a light on demartian's blinkered attitude.  luring and then killing a dissident journalist is fine as they give America loads of money (not to mention trump's son-in-law is in bed with the Saudis, no conflict of interest there at all), where as a legitimate two-year investigation into trump, is worth forgetting about now as it'd been summed up in a four page summary.  both stink of corruption but not equivalent at all in demartian's eyes.   :laugh:

Seriously...wet brain?
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Ronnie Omelettes on March 29, 2019, 12:32:49 pm
because it was a stupid question.  trump's reaction was to shrug his shoulders and say the exact same nonsense you did. 'they give us money, they'll give it to someone else otherwise'.  who is that lurking in the background?  Kushner? 

Dude, we all know you don't have any ideas yourself.

sorry, the first thing a president should do is denounce such a horrific act.   your boy clearly didn't do that at all...  in fact, he said something like..  "Maybe the world should be held accountable because the world is a vicious place."  so, yes, yes, it's all our fault that MBS wanted this journalist dead and did the horrific act on foreign soil.  you said yourself, trump is a con-man and a liar, but you still feel the need to defend him. nothing more to say. 
 
Quote
Quote
whataboutery at its worst.  :rolleyes:
It's not whataboutery to show how something would be standard policy. It's not 'whataboutery' to point out that your criticism of someone is invalid because their decision was the same decision that any other person with a reasonable chance at the office would have made.

It points out YOUR hypocrisy and YOUR lack of a counterproposal. You're not criticizing it because it was the WRONG decision, you're criticizing it because of the person making the decision.

'trump did it this way.  yeh, but but but, Clinton and Obama.....'  that is not an legitimate argument, not matter how much you think it is.

and dude...

Quote
Quote
of course there isn't.  you've shone a light on demartian's blinkered attitude.  luring and then killing a dissident journalist is fine as they give America loads of money (not to mention trump's son-in-law is in bed with the Saudis, no conflict of interest there at all), where as a legitimate two-year investigation into trump, is worth forgetting about now as it'd been summed up in a four page summary.  both stink of corruption but not equivalent at all in demartian's eyes.   :laugh:

Seriously...wet brain?

 :rolleyes:

Quote
....corruption is a form of dishonesty or criminal activity undertaken by a person or organization entrusted with a position of authority, often to acquire illicit benefit.

I'm going to help you a little with the definition of corruption first.  the saudis/kushner/trump and trump/his campaign team/russia, you do realise that is all riddled with corruption.  you do see that, don't you?  no I forgot, you believe and liar and con-man to change his spots.  and you think I've got a wet brain?   :laugh:  i can see you're having an off-day today.  it's okay!
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 29, 2019, 12:59:03 pm
sorry, the first thing a president should do is denounce such a horrific act.   
And then?

Quote
'trump did it this way.  yeh, but but but, Clinton and Obama.....'  that is not an legitimate argument, not matter how much you think it is.
It is if you're arguing that Trump's decision is producing an unexpected or uniquely horrible outcome. If the standard policy would have produced a similar outcome, then you cannot fault Trump.

For example "Your broker is stupid because he invested in this stock that went down 5%. You should have chosen my broker." Okay. But if your broker would have invested in the same stock and gotten the same result, where is the basis for any criticism on that specific action?

You are looking at this in terms of this as a "Person X is better or worse than Person Y" in which case the whataboutism argument is valid. I am looking at this from the perspective of decision making which is "If proposal A produces approximately the same result as Proposal B, you cannot say that Proposal B was a better alternative." That isn't whataboutism, that is trying to figure out what the correct decision is and you failing to offer a valid alternative.

Quote
I'm going to help you a little with the definition of corruption first.  the saudis/kushner/trump 
Yes, any foreign policy and decisions involving Saudi Arabia are likely to involve corruption somewhere. You can either accept that level of corruption and do business with the Saudis, or you can reject it and not do business. All of our previous administrations have chosen to maintain a relationship rather than cutting off all ties.

If you have a plan that would either A) Involve maintenance of a relationship with Saudi Arabai and involve NO corruption or B) Severing all ties with Saudi Arabia, and why such a plan would produce positive outcomes, I'm all ears.

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and trump/his campaign team/russia, you do realise that is all riddled with corruption
It's not, at least based on the summary of the Mueller report.

Quote
no I forgot, you believe and liar and con-man to change his spots.
You seem to have ignored the significance of the second part of my statement regarding that- Almost all politicians are liars and conmen. Look at the history of our presidents. Last one I can think of who wasn't one was Carter, and he was rather ineffective and while he didn't lie, he didn't really fulfill his promises. Before that...Ike was a bit of a technocrat and wasn't inherently dishonest, but even he would have to cross his fingers from time to time. Before that? I think Grant was fundamentally honest...who surrounded himself with people he felt he owed something to and they all took advantage of him.

Some of our best/most consequential presidents have been liars and conmen- Clinton, Reagan, Nixon, LBJ, JFK, FDR, etc.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: tylerthegloob on March 29, 2019, 01:04:13 pm
like trump and his eunuch son-in-law did with the Khashoggi murder?  yes.  old news?  he's dead, why bother?  forget about it.
What should they have done? Sever all ties with Saudi Arabia? Do we know whether or not there was more to Khashoggi than what the public knows?

Would you agree that there could be more to the Mueller report than what the public knows?
There could be

That's all I needed my dude. The rest of it was you just beating down some strawman. My only point was to show that both sides do this (not you in particular). The left oversold the investigation, I agree. The right undersold it (at least some of them). The truth here is somewhere in the middle, as it sometimes is.

(as an aside... regardless of how it started and any political motivations involved, the investigation led to the takedown of some bad hombres. i hope we can agree on that)
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 29, 2019, 01:33:36 pm
(as an aside... regardless of how it started and any political motivations involved, the investigation led to the takedown of some bad hombres. i hope we can agree on that)
Looking at it so far, it got Manafort the Slimy and the rest...it remains to be seen what they are charged with. Papadop got what? 2 weeks? Flynn has yet to be even sentenced and it appears that the agents interviewing him didn't think he intentionally misled them and that his failure to register was not done with any criminal intent. Likewise with things like Sessions having accused himself.

Considering the number of people a campaign will have, and the number of people that those people would meet, it's basically a mathematical certainty that you could get these kind of charges for any campaign.

I've said it before, the problem the left was making was this: "The fact that they're lying about having met Russians, MUST mean they are lying about Russian collusion." That is NOT the logical conclusion. It only looks suspicious if you have no concept of probabilities. You take ANY presidential nominee's campaign and you go through everyone you will get A) Contacts with Russians, and B) Someone who will "lie" about it, quite possibly not even intentionally.

As far as the Russians indicted, we'll have to see. There's a possibility that at least some of the named companies have nothing to do with this and the case is either flimsy or they were unwittingly used. We saw this during the War on Terror where charities or individuals with "links to Al-Qaeda" would get taken down and later on, after years of legal wrangling, it would come out that the evidence was flimsy or they were duped.

I would hope that people on the left would remember those failures of both the intelligence community and law enforcement when evaluating people/companies with "ties to Putin". It is precisely because of the same methods being used that those on the left like Mate and Greenwald were deeply skeptical of this. I would simply ask you to read and listen to those on the left who are skeptical of this and the way they view the Russia collusion case.

The Nation is a serious publication and I think there was a reason that Mate continued to work for them and they didn't push back. I think their editor probably had good journalism instincts and could make him/herself dispassionate when reviewing the evidence and realized that this case was rather flimsy and decided to hedge their bets. Likewise with Taibbi and Rolling Stone. Having once perpetrated one of the biggest journalistic failures of the decade, perhaps Rolling Stone realized they needed to be more skeptical of explosive claims and not rely on flimsy sources.

Think about it- How many stories turned out to NOT to be true? How many claims of "bombshell" reports were later discredited? How many times did people say "The end is near"? Shouldn't that track record of failure warrant deep skepticism when it comes to their claims?

Quote
The rest of it was you just beating down some strawman.
The strawman was the bringing up of Khashoggi.

Quote
The right undersold it (at least some of them)
I don't think they undersold this so much as they wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyy oversold BENGHAZI!!!!!! and EMAILS!!!!!!!!!!  and that sort of lingering unhingement did at times work it's way into their take on the Russia story.

Like I said, listen to and read the people on the progressive left who were skeptical of this and their analysis of the investigation. The scrutiny was not just the ravings of the Breitbart-QAnon crowd.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: tylerthegloob on March 29, 2019, 02:18:48 pm
(as an aside... regardless of how it started and any political motivations involved, the investigation led to the takedown of some bad hombres. i hope we can agree on that)

As far as the Russians indicted, we'll have to see.

Quote
The rest of it was you just beating down some strawman.
The strawman was the bringing up of Khashoggi.

again, you're mostly accusing me of things that i've never said or of having positions i've never held. anyway, it seems like they have pretty solid evidence in relation to GRU hacking the dems. Also, other countries have accused Russian entities of doing similar things, so it's not particularly far-fetched.

edit: and i never brought up khashoggi

Quote
Quote
The right undersold it (at least some of them)
I don't think they undersold this so much as they wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyy oversold BENGHAZI!!!!!! and EMAILS!!!!!!!!!!  and that sort of lingering unhingement did at times work it's way into their take on the Russia story.

yeah they went batshit for benghazi and that same unhinged attitude was definitely present in some on the right during the russia story.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 29, 2019, 02:38:23 pm

again, you're mostly accusing me of things that i've never said or of having positions i've never held. anyway, it seems like they have pretty solid evidence in relation to GRU hacking the dems. Also, other countries have accused Russian entities of doing similar things, so it's not particularly far-fetched.

edit: and i never brought up khashoggi

Sorry, I didn't mean to infer that you were doing those things, I was speaking in a more general sense. My apologies.

I'm also deeply skeptical as to the extent of Russian involvement in other elections. It seems less like a real concern and more like a convenient bogeyman in my estimation.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Savant on March 29, 2019, 02:47:07 pm

again, you're mostly accusing me of things that i've never said or of having positions i've never held. anyway, it seems like they have pretty solid evidence in relation to GRU hacking the dems. Also, other countries have accused Russian entities of doing similar things, so it's not particularly far-fetched.

edit: and i never brought up khashoggi

Sorry, I didn't mean to infer that you were doing those things, I was speaking in a more general sense. My apologies.

I'm also deeply skeptical as to the extent of Russian involvement in other elections. It seems less like a real concern and more like a convenient bogeyman in my estimation.

Basing this on all your intelligence briefings?
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: tylerthegloob on March 29, 2019, 02:55:00 pm
I'm also deeply skeptical as to the extent of Russian involvement in other elections. It seems less like a real concern and more like a convenient bogeyman in my estimation.

Yeah, it's definitely possible. I just don't think it's probable at this point. The evidence (regardless of its integrity) all points in the other direction. Also, even if it's not currently a huge concern, I think it will be. More and more information is online and more and more stuff is connected to the internet. Anyway, we've kinda derailed...

I'm interested in seeing the full Mueller report, but I don't think anything major will change. Holding on to the hope of something as big as a Trump impeachment is like hoping for a snow day on a morning when there's an inch of snow (shitty analogy, that'd probably cancel school in a lot of places, but you get the idea).
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: gogators! on March 29, 2019, 09:48:57 pm
The truth is out there, at least 700 pages of it, and when it comes out it's not going to be pretty for trump and the repugnicans.

Russian troops in the Western Hemisphere--something;s happenin' here.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Cyanea on March 30, 2019, 01:53:02 am
Russian troops in the Western Hemisphere--something;s happenin' here.

As opposed to American troops in the Eastern hemisphere?


(https://mtic.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/US-GlobalExpansion.jpg)


(https://mtic.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/RussiaWantsWar.jpg)


Russia and Venezuela have had military ties for 25 years now, loaning a few military advisors is nothing new.


Why have the media suddenly picked this up?

Because the US deep state are trying anything and everything to get Maduro out.

Why? Because he refuses to turn his country into an American vassal state and wants to have his own foreign policy.



Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Chester Jim on March 30, 2019, 03:22:58 am
The truth is out there, at least 700 pages of it, and when it comes out it's not going to be pretty for trump and the repugnicans.

Russian troops in the Western Hemisphere--something;s happenin' here.

Wow
The report is 400 pages?
They bette be very careful not to release sensitive information about people’s lives In the report.
They should look carefully at it over months just to be certain. 
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: NorthStar on March 30, 2019, 09:09:25 am
The truth is out there, at least 700 pages of it, and when it comes out it's not going to be pretty for trump and the repugnicans.

Russian troops in the Western Hemisphere--something;s happenin' here.

Wow
The report is 400 pages?
They bette be very careful not to release sensitive information about people’s lives In the report.
They should look carefully at it over months just to be certain.

Make sure you check your spelling....it is gator's only offense (and defense). 
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: gogators! on March 30, 2019, 10:09:32 am
Russian troops in the Western Hemisphere--something;s happenin' here.

As opposed to American troops in the Eastern hemisphere?


(https://mtic.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/US-GlobalExpansion.jpg)


(https://mtic.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/RussiaWantsWar.jpg)


Russia and Venezuela have had military ties for 25 years now, loaning a few military advisors is nothing new.


Why have the media suddenly picked this up?

Because the US deep state are trying anything and everything to get Maduro out.

Why? Because he refuses to turn his country into an American vassal state and wants to have his own foreign policy.
Another communist heard from.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: gogators! on March 30, 2019, 10:11:46 am
The truth is out there, at least 700 pages of it, and when it comes out it's not going to be pretty for trump and the repugnicans.

Russian troops in the Western Hemisphere--something;s happenin' here.

Wow
The report is 400 pages?
They bette be very careful not to release sensitive information about people’s lives In the report.
They should look carefully at it over months just to be certain.
The old southern strategy regarding civil rights--stall. You're not fooling anyone, jester.

As for releasing sensitive information, your boy trump gives out classified info willy-nilly and of course his campaign gave info to the russkis.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: NorthStar on March 30, 2019, 11:25:19 am
https://thefederalist.com/2019/03/28/campaign-colluded-russians-2016-hillary-clintons/


Quote
For more than two years, the campaign, presidential transition, and official government administration of Donald Trump operated under a cloud of suspicion that they had engaged in a treasonous conspiracy to steal the 2016 election from former secretary of state Hillary Clinton. Trump and his top associates were accused of collusion and of conspiring with the Russians to subvert American democracy.

The former director of the Central Intelligence Agency publicly declared Trump to be guilty of treason, an offense punishable by death. The former head of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the country’s premier law enforcement agency, intimated that the president had illegally obstructed justice.

In the end, none of it was true. After a nearly two-year-long investigation that issued 2,800 subpoenas, interviewed 500 witnesses, and used nearly 300 wiretaps and pen registers, Special Counsel Robert Mueller concluded that there was no evidence of collusion by Trump or his associates.

But that doesn’t mean 2016 was free of Russian collusion. To the contrary, there is clear evidence that a 2016 presidential campaign willfully and deliberately colluded with Russians in a bid to interfere with American elections. It wasn’t Trump’s campaign that colluded with shady Russia oligarchs and sketchy Russian sources to subvert American democracy: it was Hillary Clinton’s.

In fact, the entire Russian collusion conspiracy that held the nation hostage for more than two years was the brainchild of a foreign national who was working on behalf of a sanctioned Russian oligarch with close ties to the Kremlin. At the same time he was telling the media that Trump was the undisclosed agent of Russia, that foreign national was lobbying the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) to ease up on his Russian benefactor.

As it turns out, the DOJ official being lobbied was the spouse of one of that foreign national’s co-workers at the firm that hired the two of them to foment Russian hysteria on behalf of the Clinton campaign. And in a twist almost too absurd for even the most bizarre Franz Kafka novel, that firm was itself working on behalf of a Russian billionaire’s corporation that had been charged by U.S. federal prosecutors with illegally evading U.S. sanctions.
Concocting a Giant Setup

That foreign spook-turned-international political provocateur was none other than Christopher Steele, the author of the infamous and utterly debunked Steele dossier that ignited a domestic firestorm after it was briefed to president-elect Trump in January 2016 and subsequently published in full by BuzzFeed. His Russian benefactor at the time was Oleg Deripaska. His co-conspirator at DOJ was Bruce Ohr, whose wife Nellie Ohr received more than $40,000 for her work for Fusion GPS, the Clinton campaign-sponsored opposition research firm that just so happened to be working on behalf of Prevezon, a company owned by Russian billionaire Denis Katsyv, during the 2016 campaign.

The curious Clinton campaign collusion connections don’t end there. Somehow it gets worse. The Russian attorney for Prevezon, which later settled charges of laundering money and violating sanctions in exchange for $5.9 million in fines paid to the DOJ, was none other than Natalia Veselnitskaya, who arranged the Trump Tower meeting with Donald Trump Jr. and Jared Kushner, a meeting that was alleged to be proof-positive that the Trump campaign had illegally colluded with the Russians during the 2016 campaign.

Unlike the fabulist musings of Steele, who by his own admission colluded with Kremlin officials as he prepared and disseminated his anti-Trump dossier, the Clinton-Russian connections are not the delusions of a deranged conspiracy theorist. They are documented and verified facts which for some reason escaped the attention of the scores of journalists and investigators who purported to root out any and all instances of foreign collusion during the 2016 election.
How It All Went Down

Fusion GPS was hired in April 2016 by the Clinton campaign’s law firm to do opposition research against the Trump campaign after it became clear that Trump would be the Republican presidential nominee. The campaign expenditures to Fusion GPS were never disclosed in campaign finance reports.

At the same time, it was also working on behalf of Prevezon, a company owned by Kremlin-connected Russian oligarch Denis Katsyv, in the company’s battle with U.S. prosecutors over Magnitsky Act sanctions against the company. Shortly after Fusion was hired to work for the Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee, it retained the services of Steele and directed him to dig up dirt on connections between the Trump campaign and Russia. The series of reports and memoranda prepared and peddled by Steele collectively became known to the public as the so-called Steele dossier.

Nellie Ohr, wife of top DOJ official Bruce Ohr, was also hired by Fusion GPS to assist with its Russia-related anti-Trump research. And it was Ohr who later became the secret conduit between Steele and the FBI after Steele’s status as a confidential human source for the FBI was terminated when the bureau learned he had lied about his contacts with the news media.

Natasha Veselnitskaya, the Russian attorney for Prevezon with whom Fusion GPS founder Glenn Simpson worked directly, just so happened to be responsible for setting up the June 2016 Trump Tower meeting that was touted as evidence that the Trump campaign was going out of its way to collude with corrupt Russian officials in order to take down Hillary Clinton. Veselnitskaya met with Simpson both before and after the meeting, although both claim that they never discussed that meeting, only the Prevezon matter.

However, information Veselnitskaya provided during the Trump Tower meeting — the “dirt” which was promised to the president’s oldest son — was actually produced by Fusion GPS, raising questions about the claims that Simpson and Veselnitskaya never discussed the Trump Tower meeting with each other. Veselnitskaya was indicted by federal authorities early this year for obstructing justice during the course of the same Prevezon litigation that she and Fusion GPS worked on together.
Steele Brokering Russian Access to U.S. Officials

In addition to funneling unverified allegations from his dossier to the FBI and the media, Steele also repeatedly intervened with Ohr, the DOJ official, on behalf of Oleg Deripaska. Transcripts of Ohr’s congressional testimony show that Steele referred to Deripaska as “our favorite business tycoon” and tried several times to broker a meeting between Deripaska and DOJ.

Although Deripaska was prohibited from traveling to the United States, he used diplomatic cover to enter the United States at least twice in 2016, once in June and again in September. Federal agents interviewed him in New York during his September visit, according to Deripaska’s attorney and registered foreign agent Adam Waldman.

The relationship between Steele and Deripaska’s team continued well past the election into 2017, when Waldman offered himself to Sen. Mark Warner (D-Va.) as the middleman between Steele and the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. Waldman’s offer to Warner to broker access to Steele came to light when secret, encrypted text messages between Waldman and Warner were published by Fox News in February 2018.

Waldman also previously registered as a foreign agent for former Russian minister Sergey Lavrov. Federal records show that his formal lobbying on behalf of the Russian politician ended on May 31, 2017. Separate federal filings required by the Foreign Agents Registration Act show that Waldman collected nearly $1.1 million from Deripaska in 2016 and 2017.
Project Much, Mrs. Clinton?

It is beyond dispute that the Clinton campaign and the DNC funded an opposition research firm that was working on behalf of a company owned by a Kremlin-connected Russian oligarch. To dig up dirt on alleged connections between the Trump campaign and Russia, that firm then hired a foreign national who was working on behalf of another Russian oligarch. At the same time he was providing his unsubstantiated allegations of Trump campaign malfeasance to federal authorities, that same foreign national was trying to get those same federal officials to allow that sanctioned oligarch entry to the United States.

Meanwhile, the Russian attorney whose presence at a Trump Tower meeting with top Trump campaign officials was taken as proof-positive of collusion was also secretly meeting with the founder of the firm used by the Clinton campaign and DNC to allege that it was the Trump campaign that was improperly communicating with the Russians. And if that weren’t enough, the most salacious allegations in the infamous dossier that was a primary basis for secret federal surveillance of a political campaign were sourced to various anonymous officials with the Kremlin.

So there was absolutely Russian collusion during the 2016 campaign. There was absolutely a presidential campaign eager to deploy Russian information against its opponent. There was absolutely foreign interference in the 2016 election from one of America’s top geopolitical adversaries.

As the Mueller investigation reportedly concluded, though, there was no illegal conspiracy within the Trump campaign to collude with the Russians to subvert our democracy. There was collusion, alright, but it was committed by the presidential campaign of Hillary Clinton.


Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Savant on March 30, 2019, 11:58:35 am
Why is North Star like Trump still obsessed with Hillary Clinton?
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 30, 2019, 12:14:02 pm
Guys, post links from TheNation (there's one in there today by Steve Cohen) or Michael Tracey or Glenn Greenwald or Aaron Mate or Matt Taibbi. They are progressives and liberals who were skeptical of the Trump-Russia narrative based on the facts.

Posting links from The Federalist or National Review or Gateway Pundit or whomever is NOT persuasive.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Chester Jim on March 30, 2019, 02:02:35 pm
The truth is out there, at least 700 pages of it, and when it comes out it's not going to be pretty for trump and the repugnicans.

Russian troops in the Western Hemisphere--something;s happenin' here.

Wow
The report is 400 pages?
They bette be very careful not to release sensitive information about people’s lives In the report.
They should look carefully at it over months just to be certain.
The old southern strategy regarding civil rights--stall. You're not fooling anyone, jester.

As for releasing sensitive information, your boy trump gives out classified info willy-nilly and of course his campaign gave info to the russkis.

Sothern strategy, civil rights, get real.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: NorthStar on March 30, 2019, 03:06:48 pm
Quote
Sothern strategy, civil rights, get real

Democrats.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: NorthStar on March 30, 2019, 03:14:18 pm
Guys, post links from TheNation (there's one in there today by Steve Cohen) or Michael Tracey or Glenn Greenwald or Aaron Mate or Matt Taibbi. They are progressives and liberals who were skeptical of the Trump-Russia narrative based on the facts.

Posting links from The Federalist or National Review or Gateway Pundit or whomever is NOT persuasive.

No, I would not imagine The Federalist or National Review are persuasive for those with their heads up their 4th point of contact.

But...give us your version. 
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: gogators! on March 31, 2019, 01:15:39 am
Guys, post links from TheNation (there's one in there today by Steve Cohen) or Michael Tracey or Glenn Greenwald or Aaron Mate or Matt Taibbi. They are progressives and liberals who were skeptical of the Trump-Russia narrative based on the facts.

Posting links from The Federalist or National Review or Gateway Pundit or whomever is NOT persuasive.
Contrarians that are there in the name of fair journalism. Taibbi, for one, seems to go after every politician, kind of like he's playing wack-a-mole. Stephen Cohen, professor of Russian studies--anyone see a problem here?

I'm skeptical.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 31, 2019, 01:44:30 pm
Stephen Cohen, professor of Russian studies--anyone see a problem here?

I'm skeptical.
You're seriously suggesting that The Nation is disseminating Russian propaganda?

Maybe we should listen to him and other experts who have suggested that our view of Russia is wildly skewed in the media.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: gogators! on March 31, 2019, 08:20:36 pm
Stephen Cohen, professor of Russian studies--anyone see a problem here?

I'm skeptical.
You're seriously suggesting that The Nation is disseminating Russian propaganda?

Maybe we should listen to him and other experts who have suggested that our view of Russia is wildly skewed in the media.
Or maybe he's too close to the subject. Besides, wouldn't it be to his professional benefit?
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr C on March 31, 2019, 10:39:17 pm
Bill Barr's summary of Dickens's A Tale of Two Cities:

"It was the best of times."

--Paula Poundstone
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Ronnie Omelettes on April 01, 2019, 07:28:24 am
Yes, any foreign policy and decisions involving Saudi Arabia are likely to involve corruption somewhere. You can either accept that level of corruption and do business with the Saudis, or you can reject it and not do business. All of our previous administrations have chosen to maintain a relationship rather than cutting off all ties.

You seem to have ignored the significance of the second part of my statement regarding that- Almost all politicians are liars and conmen. Look at the history of our presidents.

Some of our best/most consequential presidents have been liars and conmen- Clinton, Reagan, Nixon, LBJ, JFK, FDR, etc.

and this makes it ok?  jeez louise!  'hey, there's always been corruption' or 'we've always had liars and conmen as presidents'.  yeh, if you're some third-world country you can get away with saying something like that.  also, pretty sure the last non conman president the US had was Obama. 

america seems incapable of recognising that their political system is completely corrupt, where the politicians can buy office and you can buy the politicians - a system that welcomes the investment from all parts of the world and happily launders the money of drug dealers and oligarchs.  trump's dumb base and republican enablers claim they are the greatest nation of earth, but they host the most corrupt political system on the planet and fact they put trump at the top of the shit-heap seems to confirm this.  truly, third-world.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mister Tim on April 01, 2019, 07:31:06 am
america seems incapable of recognising that their political system is completely corrupt

I know it may not look it given the people you argue with on here, but trust me, plenty of Americans recognize it.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on April 01, 2019, 08:56:07 am
Or maybe he's too close to the subject. Besides, wouldn't it be to his professional benefit?
You think the editorial board at The Nation somehow missed all of this?

also, pretty sure the last non conman president the US had was Obama. 
Obama wasn't beholden to donors and special interests and pressures from lobbies? I agree that on the scale of presidential corruption he was relatively low compared to say, BushCo. or Clinton, but still...

The man promised to close Gitmo, said he'd be green on energy but opened up the US to fracking and other fossil fuel expectation (now I don't disagree wholly with this, just that it's a blot on his record for many environmental groups), tougher rules on lobbying, closing tax loopholes, and such. This is before we get to the oft-mentioned "If you like your plan, you can keep it." And there's the debacle at the VA that happened under his watch, though personally, I think that's more "an administration scandal" than an "Obama scandal". Also, Fast & Furious, while I wouldn't personally blame Obama for (another "administration" scandal) was pretty bad. Allowing criminals to purchase guns, knowing those guns would be used in murders, is really ethically questionable. Not to mention the lies of Clapper and Brennan before Congress regarding domestic surveillance and Brennan's CIA even surveilling members of Congress.

Now some of this is just entrenched Washington-ism and there's only so much a person can do. But it's important to recognize that almost all politicians make lofty promises about "draining the swamp" and really can't do anything about it.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Ronnie Omelettes on April 05, 2019, 12:05:31 pm
like trump and his eunuch son-in-law did with the Khashoggi murder?  yes.  old news?  he's dead, why bother?  forget about it.
What should they have done? Sever all ties with Saudi Arabia? Do we know whether or not there was more to Khashoggi than what the public knows?

Would you agree that there could be more to the Mueller report than what the public knows?
There could be, but Mueller hasn't opposed the summary. Have you actually gone and looked at what everyone is charged with? Of you look at it in detail it's so obvious how little there is.

Quote
Members of Mueller’s team have told associates they are frustrated with the limited information that Attorney General William P. Barr has provided about their investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election and whether Trump sought to obstruct justice, according to multiple people familiar with the matter.

okay.... if only Mueller's team had written their own various summaries of the report...

Quote
Some on the special counsel’s team were also frustrated that summaries they had prepared for different sections of the report — with the view that they could be made public fairly quickly — were not released by Barr

 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: AvecPommesFrites on April 05, 2019, 12:47:42 pm
I'm not American so I don't join in with this politics banter but when I saw Mueller on the front page all I could think of was these bad boys..

Muller corner were decent too but I cut my finger dipping my balls into the yogurt once so never again.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Ronnie Omelettes on April 05, 2019, 12:55:03 pm
Muller corner were decent too but I cut my finger dipping my balls into the yogurt once so never again.

when was this? last week?

was the strawberry jam a bit too sharp for you? 

yoghurt and frites?  what are you Belgian?

Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: AvecPommesFrites on April 05, 2019, 01:31:38 pm
Muller corner were decent too but I cut my finger dipping my balls into the yogurt once so never again.

when was this? last week?

was the strawberry jam a bit too sharp for you? 

yoghurt and frites?  what are you Belgian?

Muller corners mate. You're laughing.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Savant on April 05, 2019, 01:55:13 pm
Muller corner were decent too but I cut my finger dipping my balls into the yogurt once so never again.

when was this? last week?

was the strawberry jam a bit too sharp for you? 

yoghurt and frites?  what are you Belgian?

Muller corners mate. You're laughing.

Why were you dipping your balls in the yoghurt?

If that's the way you want to eat it...
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Ronnie Omelettes on April 05, 2019, 02:06:23 pm
Muller corner were decent too but I cut my finger dipping my balls into the yogurt once so never again.

when was this? last week?

was the strawberry jam a bit too sharp for you? 

yoghurt and frites?  what are you Belgian?

Muller corners mate. You're laughing.

Why were you dipping your balls in the yoghurt?

he was checking the temperature of it, obviously.  warm yoghurt doesn't taste nice. 
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: gogators! on April 05, 2019, 08:24:59 pm
Or maybe he's too close to the subject. Besides, wouldn't it be to his professional benefit?
You think the editorial board at The Nation somehow missed all of this?

also, pretty sure the last non conman president the US had was Obama. 
Obama wasn't beholden to donors and special interests and pressures from lobbies? I agree that on the scale of presidential corruption he was relatively low compared to say, BushCo. or Clinton, but still...

The man promised to close Gitmo, said he'd be green on energy but opened up the US to fracking and other fossil fuel expectation (now I don't disagree wholly with this, just that it's a blot on his record for many environmental groups), tougher rules on lobbying, closing tax loopholes, and such. This is before we get to the oft-mentioned "If you like your plan, you can keep it." And there's the debacle at the VA that happened under his watch, though personally, I think that's more "an administration scandal" than an "Obama scandal". Also, Fast & Furious, while I wouldn't personally blame Obama for (another "administration" scandal) was pretty bad. Allowing criminals to purchase guns, knowing those guns would be used in murders, is really ethically questionable. Not to mention the lies of Clapper and Brennan before Congress regarding domestic surveillance and Brennan's CIA even surveilling members of Congress.

Now some of this is just entrenched Washington-ism and there's only so much a person can do. But it's important to recognize that almost all politicians make lofty promises about "draining the swamp" and really can't do anything about it.
They need to fill space and attract readers of all stripes. It's a business.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Ronnie Omelettes on May 01, 2019, 11:17:48 am
he's guilty man.. only a matter of time.

Quote
The special counsel Robert Mueller wrote a letter to US attorney general William Barr expressing frustration with how the attorney general characterized the conclusions of Mueller’s investigation into potential ties between Donald Trump’s presidential campaign and Russia, according to multiple reports.

The Washington Post, the New York Times and NBC reported on Tuesday that Mueller penned the letter in late March, after Barr wrote a four-page summary of the special counsel’s work that largely cleared Trump on potential obstruction of justice.

Mueller wrote that Barr “did not fully capture the context, nature, and substance” of the special counsel’s findings, according to an excerpt of the letter published by the Post.

“There is now public confusion about critical aspects of the results of our investigation,” Mueller added. “This threatens to undermine a central purpose for which the Department appointed the Special Counsel: to assure full public confidence in the outcome of the investigations.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/30/robert-mueller-trump-russia-investigation-attorney-general

Who knew that Barr was covering for Trump?  Oh yeh, all of us... 
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: SanderB on May 01, 2019, 11:57:51 am
I didn't know who Barr was, but he's been part of the 'swamp' forever, going back all the way to Bush sr.!
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: gogators! on May 01, 2019, 08:45:22 pm
I didn't know who Barr was, but he's been part of the 'swamp' forever, going back all the way to Bush sr.!
Yep--protecting repug criminals since the 80s.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Ronnie Omelettes on May 02, 2019, 07:18:19 am
William Barr, well, well, well!  What a farce that was.  And as for Lindsey Graham?   :laugh:  Always about the Hillary...

So Barr will sit with the republican majority senate committee, but is refusing to sit with the Democrat majority house committee? 

i'll give trump his dues he has completely pissed all over, stamped on and then set alight everything the american people seem to hold so dear to their nation.  incredible. but you get the feeling that the first card to fall, will be the start of something big. 
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: gogators! on May 02, 2019, 09:26:37 am
What I find really weird here is the silence from Dumpf's twitter account.

(https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/trump-tweet-no-obstruction-no-collusion-1.jpg)

WOMP WOMP

For two years I've told people that Russia collusion is a bunch of bull. Now let me say...TOLD YA SO TOLD YA SO. TOLD YA TOLD YA TOLD YA SO.

You've been wrong about Trump not getting the nomination. You've been wrong about Trump losing to Clinton. You've been wrong about Trump collapsing the economy. You've been wrong about Trump starting nuclear war. You've been wrong about Trump engaging in mass deportations. You've been wrong about Muslims in concentration camps. And you've been wrong about Trump being a Russian puppet.

Time to change the filter with which you view the world.
It appears from the report that multiple persons in the trump campaign were willing to conspire with  the russkis but were unable to bring it to fruition.  But don't forget stone and wikileaks and that connection to the russkis.

But if the report does what you and trump say, born liars that you are, why not release it? Why did Barr lie about it? 

And why is trump fighting tooth and nail to keep his finances and tax returns secret?  It's not for any principle, since he has none.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Savant on May 02, 2019, 10:23:41 am
All these years and still "her emails"
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: T.J. on May 02, 2019, 12:38:32 pm

But if the report does what you and trump say, born liars that you are, why not release it? Why did Barr lie about it? 


What do you mean "Why don't you?"

Here it is:

https://www.amazon.com/Mueller-Report-Special-Counsel-Collusion/dp/1510750169
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: leaponover on May 02, 2019, 03:32:28 pm
Yes, any foreign policy and decisions involving Saudi Arabia are likely to involve corruption somewhere. You can either accept that level of corruption and do business with the Saudis, or you can reject it and not do business. All of our previous administrations have chosen to maintain a relationship rather than cutting off all ties.

You seem to have ignored the significance of the second part of my statement regarding that- Almost all politicians are liars and conmen. Look at the history of our presidents.

Some of our best/most consequential presidents have been liars and conmen- Clinton, Reagan, Nixon, LBJ, JFK, FDR, etc.

and this makes it ok?  jeez louise!  'hey, there's always been corruption' or 'we've always had liars and conmen as presidents'.  yeh, if you're some third-world country you can get away with saying something like that.  also, pretty sure the last non conman president the US had was Obama. 

america seems incapable of recognising that their political system is completely corrupt, where the politicians can buy office and you can buy the politicians - a system that welcomes the investment from all parts of the world and happily launders the money of drug dealers and oligarchs.  trump's dumb base and republican enablers claim they are the greatest nation of earth, but they host the most corrupt political system on the planet and fact they put trump at the top of the shit-heap seems to confirm this.  truly, third-world.

Republicans initiated term limits for the president.  They need to do the same for congress.   It's something 99% of all Americans agree on, yet never sees even a whisper on The Hill.  In the good ole days people looked as running for government as a civil duty they did a few years as a break from their successful business which they went back to after serving their country.  It's not until these effers starting giving themselves huge raises that it become a job, and not a service to the country.  Term limits are the only way to begin to get us back to what made the country great.  Progressive spending Democrats and Rich Republican businessmen are equally responsible for the demise.  But they'll still be people like you making it about party which means no one will ever stop staring at their prostate.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 02, 2019, 03:53:06 pm

But if the report does what you and trump say, born liars that you are, why not release it? Why did Barr lie about it? 


What do you mean "Why don't you?"

Here it is:

https://www.amazon.com/Mueller-Report-Special-Counsel-Collusion/dp/1510750169

"Barr's Letter is covering up the Mueller Report"
Mueller Report gets released
.....
"Barr's Letter covered up the Mueller Report!"

Stop beating this dead horse. This is somehow getting beyond EMAILS!!!!!! and BENGHAZI!!!!! territory. Get to work on a prescription drug proposal or an infrastructure bill, not chasing Moby Trump with left leg and juggling wacky AOC crap with your other arm.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Adel on May 03, 2019, 02:43:43 am
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ3-O11gQhArso4Qj85UlAH4R9V-OH0F6iVrXqclkSUNQPx7R1X)

Oh yeah. Clearly nothing to see here.  ;D.
Among other things, this clown just admitted yesterday that he hadn't actually read the report before he wrote that bulls**t memo. 
Obviously Martini can't distinguish a defense attorney from an Attorney General.  I mean f**k,  Trump might as well have given the gig to Giuliani.  :laugh:. How odd is that  the head of the Department of JUSTICE can willfully commit perjury so frequently with immunity. 
In any respectable democratic system there would be a hell of a lot more resignations by  now.
What a pathetic joke, the U.S. has become.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: gogators! on May 03, 2019, 04:32:26 am

But if the report does what you and trump say, born liars that you are, why not release it? Why did Barr lie about it? 


What do you mean "Why don't you?"

Here it is:

https://www.amazon.com/Mueller-Report-Special-Counsel-Collusion/dp/1510750169

"Barr's Letter is covering up the Mueller Report"
Mueller Report gets released
.....
"Barr's Letter covered up the Mueller Report!"

Stop beating this dead horse. This is somehow getting beyond EMAILS!!!!!! and BENGHAZI!!!!! territory. Get to work on a prescription drug proposal or an infrastructure bill, not chasing Moby Trump with left leg and juggling wacky AOC crap with your other arm.
Russian meddling in US elections is not a dead horse. They're gearing up to do it all over again while the trump administration does little to nothing to stop it. Heck, he fired he Homeland security chief for saying the US needed to beef up cybersecurity to protect elections.

BTW, Dems are working on an infrastructure bill.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 03, 2019, 11:19:53 am
Among other things, this clown just admitted yesterday that he hadn't actually read the report before he wrote that bulls**t memo.
He took the Mueller Team at their word and issued a statement based on those conclusions. Who gives a shit what his summary did or did not say? The report is out there. No collusion, no obstruction.

Russian meddling in US elections is not a dead horse. They're gearing up to do it all over again while the trump administration does little to nothing to stop it. Heck, he fired he Homeland security chief for saying the US needed to beef up cybersecurity to protect elections.
Yeah, a new round of facebook posts that get 85 likes and 48 shares. We definitely need to spend millions defending ourselves from that. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Adel on May 03, 2019, 01:06:47 pm
Among other things, this clown just admitted yesterday that he hadn't actually read the report before he wrote that bulls**t memo.
He took the Mueller Team at their word and issued a statement based on those conclusions. Who gives a shit what his summary did or did not say? The report is out there. No collusion, no obstruction.

lol, not even Barr refers to his letter as a summary anymore, It's pretty hard to summarize something you have not read.  :laugh:
It 's as though you're about as well informed as Barr is., Ie neither of you have actually read the report.
If you did you would realize what you have just written is utter B.S.
There is no mention of collusion but rather evidence is laid out of criminal conspiracy. Insufficient to convict, but evidence nonetheless. 

Perhaps you need to re-read  and get up to speed with the ten instances of obstruction of justice that the report laid out for congress to begin the impeachment hearings, before you continue to engage in the discussion and make yourself look even more ridiculous.   :laugh:
 
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Savant on May 03, 2019, 01:59:05 pm
I'll have some obstruction fries to go with the chicken Barr.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 03, 2019, 02:03:04 pm
Perhaps you need to re-read  and get up to speed with the ten instances of obstruction of justice that the report laid out for congress to begin the impeachment hearings, before you continue to engage in the discussion and make yourself look even more ridiculous.   :laugh:
Trump did not obstruct justice. For goodness sakes, there isn't even an underlying crime, nor did he materially damage the investigation.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Adel on May 03, 2019, 02:11:29 pm
Perhaps you need to re-read  and get up to speed with the ten instances of obstruction of justice that the report laid out for congress to begin the impeachment hearings, before you continue to engage in the discussion and make yourself look even more ridiculous.   :laugh:
Trump did not obstruct justice. For goodness sakes, there isn't even an underlying crime, nor did he materially damage the investigation.

lol, so you still haven't read the report then ?

Here it is.    https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf (https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf)   It won't cost you a penny.

Please read before you continue.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Ronnie Omelettes on May 03, 2019, 03:42:56 pm
Perhaps you need to re-read  and get up to speed with the ten instances of obstruction of justice that the report laid out for congress to begin the impeachment hearings, before you continue to engage in the discussion and make yourself look even more ridiculous.   :laugh:
Trump did not obstruct justice. For goodness sakes, there isn't even an underlying crime, nor did he materially damage the investigation.

 :laugh:  you are like a shire horse.  you're ignoring everything everybody has said and believed trump and barr.  this is one reason why barr wrote such a rubbish 'summary'.  it's burned onto your's as well as the others who refuse to, or cannot read. 

as you love your cognitive biases, here is one about you...

Quote
Anchoring or focalism is a cognitive bias where an individual relies too heavily on an initial piece of information offered (considered to be the "anchor") when making decisions.

Anchoring occurs when, during decision making, an individual relies on an initial piece of information to make subsequent judgments. Those objects near the anchor tend to be assimilated toward it and those further away tend to be displaced in the other direction. Once the value of this anchor is set, all future negotiations, arguments, estimates, etc. are discussed in relation to the anchor. This bias occurs when interpreting future information using this anchor. For example, the initial price offered for a used car, set either before or at the start of negotiations, sets an arbitrary focal point for all following discussions. Prices discussed in negotiations that are lower than the anchor may seem reasonable, perhaps even cheap to the buyer, even if said prices are still relatively higher than the actual market value of the car.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring

this is what trump relied on and his supporters are still doing their victory lap...
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr C on May 03, 2019, 11:11:05 pm
Perhaps you need to re-read  and get up to speed with the ten instances of obstruction of justice that the report laid out for congress to begin the impeachment hearings, before you continue to engage in the discussion and make yourself look even more ridiculous.   :laugh:
Trump did not obstruct justice. For goodness sakes, there isn't even an underlying crime, nor did he materially damage the investigation.

lol, so you still haven't read the report then ?

Here it is.    https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf (https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf)   It won't cost you a penny.

Please read before you continue.

Nah.  He won't.  He is a troll of very small character.

So I have made my own "summary" a la Bill Barr as if Drumpf were a Democrat (and I haven't really done anything in doing that to lie, but just chosen bits that Barr ignored)--and this is just from the abstract at the front. Everything in double-quotes is really a quote.

Quote
"[T]he investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian effort" It is clearly essential to stop any Democratic campaign (and possibly Republican ones, too, I guess) from benefitting from intervention in our elections by antagonistic foreign powers.  However, this can only be ascertained in the case of Republican campaigns if the bad guys are wearing tee-shirts that say, 'I am a Russian spy.  No, really.  Kompromat, anyone?'

"Candidate Trump signed a Letter of lntent for Trump Tower Moscow by November 2015, and in January 2016 Trump Organization executive Michael Cohen emailed and spoke about the project with the office of Russian government press secretary Dmitry Peskov. The Trump Organization pursued the project through at least June 2016, including by considering travel to Russia by Cohen and candidate Trump." During this time, candidate Trump repeatedly denied he had business with Russia, or knew anything about business with Russia.

"Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort met in New York City with his long-time business associate Konstantin Kilimnik, who the FBI assesses to have ties to Russian intelligence. Kilimnik requested the meeting to deliver in person a peace plan for Ukraine that Manafort acknowledged to the Special Counsel's Office was a "backdoor" way for Russia to control part of eastern Ukraine; both men believed the plan would require candidate Trump's assent to succeed (were he to be elected President). They also discussed the status of the Trump Campaign and Manafort's strategy for winning Democratic votes in Midwestern states. Months before that meeting, Manafort had caused internal polling data to be shared with Kilimnik, and the sharing continued for some period of time after their August meeting."

"President Trump reacted negatively to the Special Counsel's appointment. He told advisors that it was the end of his presidency, sought to have Attorney General Jefferson (Jeff) Sessions unrecuse from the Russia investigation and to have the Special Counsel removed, and engaged in efforts to curtail the Special Counsel's investigation and prevent the disclosure of evidence to it, including through public and private contacts with potential witnesses." These are all attempts to obstruct justice, even if they mostly didn't succeed.

"...the investigation identified numerous links between individuals with ties to the Russian government and individuals associated with the Trump Campaign, the evidence was ... sufficient to support criminal charges." (OK, I cheated here, like Barr, in omitting the "not".)

"[T]he Office learned that some of the individuals we interviewed or whose conduct we investigated-including some associated with the Trump Campaign---deleted relevant communications..."

Curiously, not a whiff of outcry or 10 Senate investigations do we hear for DELETED RELEVANT COMMUNICATIONS!!!! Odd, isn't it?
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: Mr C on May 03, 2019, 11:18:25 pm
Perhaps you need to re-read  and get up to speed with the ten instances of obstruction of justice that the report laid out for congress to begin the impeachment hearings, before you continue to engage in the discussion and make yourself look even more ridiculous.   :laugh:
Trump did not obstruct justice. For goodness sakes, there isn't even an underlying crime, nor did he materially damage the investigation.

lol, so you still haven't read the report then ?

Here it is.    https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf (https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf)   It won't cost you a penny.

Please read before you continue.
Also, he knows:
1) There is no need for an underlying crime to be proved before obstruction is a crime!
2) Trump did attempt to obstruct justice, and the attempt is a crime equal to succeeding!
3) Appointing Matthew whatsisname and Bill Barrwhatsisname materially damaged the DOJ and therefore any investigation.
Title: Re: Robert Mueller Investigation Wraps Up: No Further Indictments, No Collusion
Post by: gogators! on May 03, 2019, 11:56:21 pm
Among other things, this clown just admitted yesterday that he hadn't actually read the report before he wrote that bulls**t memo.
He took the Mueller Team at their word and issued a statement based on those conclusions. Who gives a shit what his summary did or did not say? The report is out there. No collusion, no obstruction.

Russian meddling in US elections is not a dead horse. They're gearing up to do it all over again while the trump administration does little to nothing to stop it. Heck, he fired he Homeland security chief for saying the US needed to beef up cybersecurity to protect elections.
Yeah, a new round of facebook posts that get 85 likes and 48 shares. We definitely need to spend millions defending ourselves from that. :rolleyes:
Is your ignorance willful, in service of a cause you have somehow adopted as your own because you and it take such pleasure in spitting in the eyes of those with more intelligence and  knowledge, or it just your natural state?

From last July: "Facebook said the recently purged accounts — eight Facebook pages, 17 Facebook profiles and seven Instagram accounts — were created between March 2017 and May 2018 and were first discovered two weeks ago. More than 290,000 accounts followed at least one of the suspect pages, which had names like Aztlan Warriors, Black Elevation, Mindful Being and Resisters, the company said."

290,000 accounts, bro. Maybe your numbers are so far off because you can;t count that high.
Title: 'NO CO-ORDINATION'
Post by: Adel on May 04, 2019, 05:23:20 am
Regarding the 'NO COLLUSION' nonsense!

In fairness to both Trump and the Mueller Report, it did conclude that their was a lack of co-ordination  between the Trump campaign and the Russians that would be sufficient for a charge of a criminal conspiracy.  Not so much that there weren't 'actions that were informed by or responsive to other's action or interests'  but rather that the  efforts  of both parties were uncoordinated in that the report didn't establish evidence of an agreement between the two parties over Russian election interference that warrant a conspiracy.
(See page 2 of the Introduction)

Hence Martini should really drop the 'NO COLLUSION' mantra and replace it with 'NO CO-ORDINATION'.  At the least that would be plausible and much more in line with the  general level of incompetence of the Trump administration.  I mean there is ample evidence everyday of that.

Nonetheless, as others have pointed out, that doesn't let Trump off the hook in terms of obstruction.  Incompetence, in terms of his obstruction, is not a legitimate defense.  Not to mention the role that Barr and others may have had in interfering in the report.  Eventually though Mueller and others will testify before congress  so this matter ain't done with yet!