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All about South Korea => Life in Korea => Topic started by: Imeunha on December 06, 2018, 10:53:09 pm

Title: So she fired me.....
Post by: Imeunha on December 06, 2018, 10:53:09 pm
Oh boy. 

For more details on this saga, my post history should provide.

So, backstory.  My hagwon just opened this January.  They had no students and no money. The long short of it: we made an arrangement where they do not provide me with housing close to the hagwon, but since we (my bosses and I) live in the same city and commute (30 minutes by car), they would drive me to and from work.  At first I was hesitant, but I was coming off another bad situation and was kind of desperate (perhaps a story for another time). 

Over the last 9ish months, there have been instances when they couldn't take me, so they would ask my bf to drive me, or I would take the bus and subway (the bus comes once an hour and only goes to a subway station where I have to take a subway and then walk from the station to my house. Overall this takes 1.5 hours...yeah).  Once during the summer, I had to commute to work for two weeks in this fashion because they had a special summer class in the mornings and as such could not take me in.  No problem.  Every time I found my way. 

Now it's getting cold.  I have to walk to the bus stop (10 minutes) wait for the bus (~10 minutes) ride the bus, walk to the station and wait on the subway (varies really. Sometimes 20 minutes?) And then ride the subway and walk home (20minutes). 

For the last month they have sporadically told me they can't take me. My female boss goes home at 845, she couuuulddd take me but um... She's kind of lazy....anyway usually the man drives me anyway.  This week I have had to go home by way of public transport and to work once in the morning.  So I was a little miffed.  I don't know the legality of not offering me housing or a stipend, but we had a deal.  For me to work in the city their hagwon is in, they would take me.  I've been very patient with circumstances...

Anyway I brought up the situation with my boss. Serious talk, but not accusatory or angry or rude.  Just, it's very difficult for me to commute and we did have a deal so I would like them to try to honor it a bit better.  Her demanor was something aki
to "why are you making trouble for me?  Why don't you understand my business?  I don't have time to honor stupid deals I made with you." Anyway, she was annoyed but "promised" to uphold the deal "through the end of February" (the end of my contract). 

The results have determined.......that was a lie!

This conversation happened yesterday.  Cue today after classes.  I get called into her office.

It is "impossible for us to continue working together."  I will only be working with them through the end of January. 

Did you catch that?  11 month firing.

That's kind of illegal, I tell her.  (I didn't mention, but she has never even given me a written notice or anything.) Will you be giving me a letter of release?  Will you pay me my severance?

"I will be watching you for the next two months.  If you don't work hard, I will fire you right away and not give you a letter of release."

The next month and a half should be fun. 
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: williamwhite on December 07, 2018, 05:35:25 am
In this type of situation, there is only one question.  What would Tyler Durden do?
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: Imeunha on December 07, 2018, 06:39:51 am
In this type of situation, there is only one question.  What would Tyler Durden do?

I'm pretty sure this is a reference to Fight Club, but I'm not sure what it means.
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: taeyang on December 07, 2018, 06:44:54 am
if you can afford to leave korea, i would. you can pick up a new job in february/march.

your situation does not sound ideal though. i hope it works out!
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: sligo on December 07, 2018, 06:53:01 am
Record every conversation you have with her, then present to the labor board.  You have every right to record any conversation you are part of, and DO NOT have to tell her.  Let her hang herself.....so to speak.
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: Piggydee on December 07, 2018, 07:32:06 am
Record every conversation you have with her, then present to the labor board.  You have every right to record any conversation you are part of, and DO NOT have to tell her.  Let her hang herself.....so to speak.

Why you didn't quit when we told you to is beyond me, however yes you have a case with the Labor Board.  Quit now and fight them with the board.  Good luck
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: waygo0k on December 07, 2018, 07:33:14 am
There is no legal requirement for her to provide you with housing or a stipend...the only legal requirement is that you have a housing contract when registering for an E-2. I hope you used the lack of housing/stipend to negotiate a higher salary.

If not, I hate to say it, but she played you this whole time. You've been saving her 300-500k per month in expenses for the past year, and now she's taking your naivety for granted.

Even if she 'fires' you, don't stop going to work. Turn up and continue your routine as usual. The ball is in your court.
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: thunderlips on December 07, 2018, 07:55:11 am
Record every conversation you have with her, then present to the labor board.  You have every right to record any conversation you are part of, and DO NOT have to tell her.  Let her hang herself.....so to speak.

Why you didn't quit when we told you to is beyond me, however yes you have a case with the Labor Board.  Quit now and fight them with the board.  Good luck

No don't quit! You will lose your leverage. If they try to do an 11 month firing you have a pretty solid case.
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: sligo on December 07, 2018, 08:00:11 am
Record every conversation you have with her, then present to the labor board.  You have every right to record any conversation you are part of, and DO NOT have to tell her.  Let her hang herself.....so to speak.

Why you didn't quit when we told you to is beyond me, however yes you have a case with the Labor Board. Quit now and fight them with the board.  Good luck

This is possibly the worst advice you can receive.  If you quit, that will be used against you.  Your boss will use it for justification of termination.  Report her, then do everything by the book, so you have a record of your actions.  Record every conversation with her, so you have evidence of what you are told.  If she cannot prove there are serious issues with you, then she cannot get away with the firing.  Download a voice recorder on your phone, and sit on the desk and let it record as you talk to her.
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: theman3285 on December 07, 2018, 09:04:32 am
Download a voice recorder on your phone, and sit on the desk and let it record as you talk to her.
Absolutely this is the way to go. But do it discreetly. You don't want her mitigating her demeanor because she knows she's being recorded. Let her go full bitch mode.

Also, are you the girl with the Korean boyfriend who sided with your bosses? If so, I'd like to know his stance on the matter. No doubt he'll elucidate the fact that 11th month dismissals are a part of Korean culture and you'd best get used to it ;D
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: SuperDoodle23 on December 07, 2018, 09:19:49 am
For the love of God don't quit when you are on your 11th month. Follow the law to the letter and get out of there as soon as you can.

OP, no disrespect but you sound like a doormat. Your boss has no respect for you because you have tolerated a lot of nonsense that most people in your position would not have tolerated. Your boss has picked up on this and is going to push you and push you because you haven't set any strong boundaries in the past. I'm gonna be even more blunt. If your boyfriend has sided with your boss in the past ( and it sounds like he has ) then he is probably also accustomed to being used as a doormat. The only difference is that he is Korean and is probably used to being crapped on by his superiors. Do better for yourself next go around. I've been in your situation too. You can't be too nice to certain kinds of people. They see that as a weakness. Your time for sticking up for yourself was at the beginning of the contract though. Now suddenly deciding to grow a spine and set boundaries is going to give your boss too much leverage. Follow the law, smile nod and proceed, and then get out. There is no need to devise any elaborate ways to fight her now. The time to fight her was the FIRST time she threw nonsense at you. Good luck!
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: theman3285 on December 07, 2018, 09:24:00 am
Your time for sticking up for yourself was at the beginning of the contract though. Now suddenly deciding to grow a spine and set boundaries is going to give your boss too much leverage. Follow the law, smile nod and proceed, and then get out. There is no need to devise any elaborate ways to fight her now. The time to fight her was the FIRST time she threw nonsense at you. Good luck!
+1
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: KoreaBoo on December 07, 2018, 09:52:08 am
If she has given you full notice, then she may have legally covered her butt.

The famous 11th month firings were for cases in the past where an employer would let someone go a day or a week before the completion of their contract.  This was usually done without notice and 'for cause'.

Your employer is obligated to give you 30 days notice.  You are currently in your 9th month.  They have provided you with more than the legal amount of notice required to find another employer.

Additionally, there is no 'magic' rule where it becomes illegal to fire or let someone go after they have been with you 7, 8 or 9 months into your contract.  Your employer can let you go for nearly any reason AS LONG AS they provide you with enough notice.

Now there are those here who will tell you to go call the SGC or 'labour board' (which doesn't exist here) and 'fight it'.
Yes, there are processes in play where you can legally challenge the administration of letting you go.  However you have been fired in your 9th month, not 11th.

Secondly, you most likely do not have the resources required to fight this.  Your boss can let you go, but is under no legal obligation to provide you a LOR to get a new job.  Hence when they report you have left, you must leave the country and start the visa application process all over again at a substantial expense.  During this time, you cannot work here and if you leave the country, your legal petitions for which you cannot really afford to do are stopped.

So unless you are able to find a means to remain in country while not being able to work while spending nearly a year trying to keep a job or some small amount of benefit that you feel you may have coming to you is greater than the cost of you fighting...you may find yourself in the losing end.

Any reference to your past employer will be shot.  Your being fired or not completing your contract will be on your file.  You may have issues with getting the new D-10 points visa.

All this while you're burning through cash in a system that is designed for its citizens & permanent residents, not temporary employees.

So if someone here can tell me again what the employer has done illegally here again?  He gave you nearly 2 months notice that you are being let go 9 months in.  In reality, this happens everywhere.  There is no law that states he cannot fire you because you are entitled to your benefits.  If he gave you notice at 10.5 months in...then you may have a case...but not at 9.

I don't see any legal victory here on your part. 

Additionally, it seems here that many posters in the past have warned you about your past decisions, how they may cause further financial or employment problems for you.  You seemed more than happy to disregard the advice given to you and are now asking again the same people you chose to ignore for help.

Not exactly a good start.
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: Imeunha on December 07, 2018, 09:52:35 am
When it comes to 11 month firings, immi told me I would have to do a visa run in February to get a brand new visa. I have a question.  My contract ends in February, but my visa expires April 2nd.  If I get fired in January, immi says I can do a visa run February 1.  But immi has told me all kinds of things in the past.  Is it true?  Or do I have to wait until the end of my contract? Or do I have to wait til the end of my visa?

Yeah I'm the one with the boyfriend, and you're right, he's also a doormat and used to it.  At his job he works from 830 am til 9pm, and hasn't had a day off in 3 weeks.  His boss too says he either does all of the overtime or he is fired.  So when I have issues, he tells me Korea is hell and will never change.
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: KoreaBoo on December 07, 2018, 09:58:13 am
When it comes to 11 month firings, immi told me I would have to do a visa run in February to get a brand new visa. I have a question.  My contract ends in February, but my visa expires April 2nd.  If I get fired in January, immi says I can do a visa run February 1.  But immi has told me all kinds of things in the past.  Is it true?  Or do I have to wait until the end of my contract? Or do I have to wait til the end of my visa?

Yeah I'm the one with the boyfriend, and you're right, he's also a doormat and used to it.  At his job he works from 830 am til 9pm, and hasn't had a day off in 3 weeks.  His boss too says he either does all of the overtime or he is fired.  So when I have issues, he tells me Korea is hell and will never change.

The date on your ARC is the one that matters.  The contract is secondary.  Your employment contract will not overrule any dates written on your card.  As far as immi is concerned, that is the only date that is official.
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: Imeunha on December 07, 2018, 10:13:21 am

Your employer is obligated to give you 30 days notice.  You are currently in your 9th month.  They have provided you with more than the legal amount of notice required to find another employer.

Additionally, there is no 'magic' rule where it becomes illegal to fire or let someone go after they have been with you 7, 8 or 9 months into your contract.  Your employer can let you go for nearly any reason AS LONG AS they provide you with enough notice.

Now there are those here who will tell you to go call the SGC or 'labour board' (which doesn't exist here) and 'fight it'.
Yes, there are processes in play where you can legally challenge the administration of letting you go.  However you have been fired in your 9th month, not 11th.

Any reference to your past employer will be shot.  Your being fired or not completing your contract will be on your file.  You may have issues with getting the new D-10 points visa.

There is no law that states he cannot fire you because you are entitled to your benefits.  If he gave you notice at 10.5 months in...then you may have a case...but not at 9.

Additionally, it seems here that many posters in the past have warned you about your past decisions, how they may cause further financial or employment problems for you.  You seemed more than happy to disregard the advice given to you and are now asking again the same people you chose to ignore for help.

Not exactly a good start.

I appreciate your candor.  Yeah, I've been a moron.  Pretty much everyone told me to quit this job asap, but I didn't want to fail.  I wanted to finish a contract, have that on my resume, do my job well, fix any problems my boss had with me.  And I really really tried.  I fixed everything she had an issue with me on. Really I tried so hard.  But you guys were also right when you said once Korean people (most all people?) have an impression of you, you can't change it. And maybe don't place any trust in people who only see you as a cash cow.

Regarding the rest of your post, the fact that I was fired would forever make it difficult for me to find a job or get a new visa?  Is that only if I try to fight it, or is it just a permanent feature of my visa status?  Do people survive that?
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: Imeunha on December 07, 2018, 10:14:50 am

The date on your ARC is the one that matters.  The contract is secondary.  Your employment contract will not overrule any dates written on your card.  As far as immi is concerned, that is the only date that is official.

So perhaps immi told me wrong? I can only apply for a new visa after April?
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: MaximusPrime on December 07, 2018, 10:22:29 am
Pretty sure that your visa will expire 2 weeks after your employer sends that info that you are no longer employed to immigration.
What type of visa did you expect to apply for? D-10 ( looking for work )? Can you even apply for an E-2 without a new employer on your own? (costly I would assume) You will need to get all those answers checked out.
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: Imeunha on December 07, 2018, 10:25:12 am
I have an employer that wants to hire me. She wants someone asap but was willing tl wait for my contract end date in February.  I can't get the new D10, I don't have the points for it.  So I can jump to another job, if the timing works out.  Because if I have to wait til April to do a visa run, I don't think I can even legally be in Korea for 3 months just chillaxing....
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: Thomas Mc on December 07, 2018, 10:30:43 am
I would not worry about it looking bad not completing a contract. It is known that there are employers that screw employees over and I think any future employer will be understanding if you explain the situation.
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on December 07, 2018, 10:42:37 am
Reading this I am pretty happy I never worked for a Hagwon. I have heard so many stories.

OP good luck and if things don't work out, have a look at China. Obviously you have to do your homework, but there are many great gigs in China. I was sorry I had to leave due to my age but I had a great job. Everything was free. I only paid for my food I ate, the rest of my salary I put into my pocket.

Plenty of part time jobs there too, illegal but you can do it if you stay under the radar.
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: Cyanea on December 07, 2018, 12:00:42 pm
I was sorry I had to leave due to my age

Do they employ people in their 40's or 50's?
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: Imeunha on December 07, 2018, 12:05:50 pm
I was sorry I had to leave due to my age

Do they employ people in their 40's or 50's?

No, I'm the only foreigner and I'm 30.  The bosses are 35 and 37 and the oldestones there.
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: Cyanea on December 07, 2018, 12:05:58 pm
I can't get the new D10, I don't have the points for it.

You don't need points to get a D10, anyone who has completed a contract and is still in the country can get one.

If you have not completed your contract you need a letter of release however.

If you have no letter of release, then you can still get a D10 if you have a valid ongoing case with the labour board.
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: Cyanea on December 07, 2018, 12:06:41 pm
I was sorry I had to leave due to my age

Do they employ people in their 40's or 50's?

No, I'm the only foreigner and I'm 30.  The bosses are 35 and 37 and the oldestones there.

I meant in China..
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: Imeunha on December 07, 2018, 12:07:49 pm
I can't get the new D10, I don't have the points for it.

You don't need points to get a D10, anyone who has completed a contract and is still in the country can get one.

If you have not completed your contract you need a letter of release however.

If you have no letter of release, then you can still get a D10 if you have a valid ongoing case with the labour board.

My understanding is the old D10 is being phased out this month (December) and the new one with the point system starting in the new year.  This point system is regardless of finishing a contract or not. Also I am being fired one month before completing a contract. 
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: Cyanea on December 07, 2018, 12:09:47 pm
I can't get the new D10, I don't have the points for it.

You don't need points to get a D10, anyone who has completed a contract and is still in the country can get one.

If you have not completed your contract you need a letter of release however.

If you have no letter of release, then you can still get a D10 if you have a valid ongoing case with the labour board.

My understanding is the old D10 is being phased out this month (December) and the new one with the point system starting in the new year.  This point system is regardless of finishing a contract or not. Also I am being fired one month before completing a contract.

Do you have a link to this? Any information?

Points?? what points?
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: Imeunha on December 07, 2018, 12:14:31 pm
I can't get the new D10, I don't have the points for it.

You don't need points to get a D10, anyone who has completed a contract and is still in the country can get one.

If you have not completed your contract you need a letter of release however.

If you have no letter of release, then you can still get a D10 if you have a valid ongoing case with the labour board.

My understanding is the old D10 is being phased out this month (December) and the new one with the point system starting in the new year.  This point system is regardless of finishing a contract or not. Also I am being fired one month before completing a contract.

Do you have a link to this? Any information?

Points?? what points?

Technically unofficial, so may be only a rumor but:

https://www.reddit.com/r/teachinginkorea/comments/9ump5f/new_d10_application_pointsbased_system_unofficial/?utm_source=reddit-android
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on December 07, 2018, 12:22:59 pm
I was sorry I had to leave due to my age

Do they employ people in their 40's or 50's?

No, I'm the only foreigner and I'm 30.  The bosses are 35 and 37 and the oldestones there.

I meant in China..

60 is the cutoff
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: Cyanea on December 07, 2018, 12:30:31 pm
I can't get the new D10, I don't have the points for it.

You don't need points to get a D10, anyone who has completed a contract and is still in the country can get one.

If you have not completed your contract you need a letter of release however.

If you have no letter of release, then you can still get a D10 if you have a valid ongoing case with the labour board.

My understanding is the old D10 is being phased out this month (December) and the new one with the point system starting in the new year.  This point system is regardless of finishing a contract or not. Also I am being fired one month before completing a contract.

Do you have a link to this? Any information?

Points?? what points?

Technically unofficial, so may be only a rumor but:

https://www.reddit.com/r/teachinginkorea/comments/9ump5f/new_d10_application_pointsbased_system_unofficial/?utm_source=reddit-android

Looks pretty hard to get the 60 points necessary. I get the initial 20 points but only 15 additional points.

You get points for working abroad? In other countries? How do you prove that?

If this happens, it will be an end to all the regular E2 people with a BA and a pulse.


Basically they want only highly qualified people to hang around in the country. Do they really think someone with years of being a research student and a graduate from a top university is going to want to fill one of those 2.1 hogwon jobs?
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: Imeunha on December 07, 2018, 12:51:27 pm
I can't get the new D10, I don't have the points for it.

You don't need points to get a D10, anyone who has completed a contract and is still in the country can get one.

If you have not completed your contract you need a letter of release however.

If you have no letter of release, then you can still get a D10 if you have a valid ongoing case with the labour board.

My understanding is the old D10 is being phased out this month (December) and the new one with the point system starting in the new year.  This point system is regardless of finishing a contract or not. Also I am being fired one month before completing a contract.

Do you have a link to this? Any information?

Points?? what points?

Technically unofficial, so may be only a rumor but:

https://www.reddit.com/r/teachinginkorea/comments/9ump5f/new_d10_application_pointsbased_system_unofficial/?utm_source=reddit-android

Looks pretty hard to get the 60 points necessary. I get the initial 20 points but only 15 additional points.

You get points for working abroad? In other countries? How do you prove that?

If this happens, it will be an end to all the regular E2 people with a BA and a pulse.


Basically they want only highly qualified people to hang around in the country. Do they really think someone with years of being a research student and a graduate from a top university is going to want to fill one of those 2.1 hogwon jobs?

Maybe they want people to renew with their schools and hagwons? I think they just don't want foreigners here for 6 months with no jobs juat chilling out.  So you renew or you leave.
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: zola on December 07, 2018, 01:04:19 pm
If this happens, it will be an end to all the regular E2 people with a BA and a pulse.
How? It doesn't stop anyone for applying for/getting a job or renewing their contracts.
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: OnNut81 on December 07, 2018, 02:08:01 pm
I'm only following the direction that this thread has gone, but I don't understand the logic behind phasing out the D-10 the way it was previously.  It wasn't even around that long.  It seemed like a reasonable and logical step when it came out.  You were allowed to be out of the country three months out of the six.  Nice way to take a longer break and see family or travel and then come back.  I was considering getting it for March but instead just decided to renew.  Disappointing. 
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: sligo on December 07, 2018, 02:13:06 pm
If this happens, it will be an end to all the regular E2 people with a BA and a pulse.
How? It doesn't stop anyone for applying for/getting a job or renewing their contracts.

This will only stagnate wages more.  When it comes to renewal time:

Will you renew?

I'm not sure, i would like a payrise.

I can't afford it (he says whilst looking at brochures for a new Genesis), but as you only have 1 year of employment, you can either take the same wage, or go home and start a new visa process.

Ok, i will take 2.1m won again.

This will give so much more power to the employers to dictate the market.  They can hold anyone to ransom, as moving to a new employer will be all but impossible without leaving the country.

If you want to change employers after finishing a contract, how do you do this without a D10 visa?
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: zola on December 07, 2018, 02:17:51 pm
If this happens, it will be an end to all the regular E2 people with a BA and a pulse.
How? It doesn't stop anyone for applying for/getting a job or renewing their contracts.

This will only stagnate wages more.  When it comes to renewal time:

Will you renew?

I'm not sure, i would like a payrise.

I can't afford it (he says whilst looking at brochures for a new Genesis), but as you only have 1 year of employment, you can either take the same wage, or go home and start a new visa process.

Ok, i will take 2.1m won again.

This will give so much more power to the employers to dictate the market.  They can hold anyone to ransom, as moving to a new employer will be all but impossible without leaving the country.

If you want to change employers after finishing a contract, how do you do this without a D10 visa?

I agree that it takes what little independence e2s had, away.

Doesn't an E2 have a 13th month? You could use the extra month to find a job.
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: Cyanea on December 07, 2018, 02:42:38 pm
I think they just don't want foreigners here for 6 months with no jobs juat chilling out.  So you renew or you leave.

Thing is, why would they not want that? You're spending your money in the country paying rent, buying food etc.

Maybe they just don't want people sitting on a D10 and doing privates. But in my exp its not people on D10's who do privates, its Canadians coming in on back-to-back 6-month tourist visas.
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: sligo on December 07, 2018, 03:07:18 pm
If this happens, it will be an end to all the regular E2 people with a BA and a pulse.
How? It doesn't stop anyone for applying for/getting a job or renewing their contracts.

This will only stagnate wages more.  When it comes to renewal time:

Will you renew?

I'm not sure, i would like a payrise.

I can't afford it (he says whilst looking at brochures for a new Genesis), but as you only have 1 year of employment, you can either take the same wage, or go home and start a new visa process.

Ok, i will take 2.1m won again.

This will give so much more power to the employers to dictate the market.  They can hold anyone to ransom, as moving to a new employer will be all but impossible without leaving the country.

If you want to change employers after finishing a contract, how do you do this without a D10 visa?

I agree that it takes what little independence e2s had, away.

Doesn't an E2 have a 13th month? You could use the extra month to find a job.

So, who is sponsoring the visa during the 13th month?  If it is employer 1, how do you transfer to employer 2 if employer 1 refuses to transfer?
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: OnNut81 on December 07, 2018, 03:07:58 pm
If this happens, it will be an end to all the regular E2 people with a BA and a pulse.
How? It doesn't stop anyone for applying for/getting a job or renewing their contracts.

This will only stagnate wages more.  When it comes to renewal time:

Will you renew?

I'm not sure, i would like a payrise.

I can't afford it (he says whilst looking at brochures for a new Genesis), but as you only have 1 year of employment, you can either take the same wage, or go home and start a new visa process.

Ok, i will take 2.1m won again.

This will give so much more power to the employers to dictate the market.  They can hold anyone to ransom, as moving to a new employer will be all but impossible without leaving the country.

If you want to change employers after finishing a contract, how do you do this without a D10 visa?


I see this was said, but now that the visa extends a month beyond your contract finish date the above scenario isn't going to happen.  D10 was just a helpful sensible visa in its previous incarnation.  Basically, even though it's still called a d-10 it's a completely different visa.  Disappointing. 
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: Mr C on December 07, 2018, 03:19:01 pm
If this happens, it will be an end to all the regular E2 people with a BA and a pulse.
How? It doesn't stop anyone for applying for/getting a job or renewing their contracts.

This will only stagnate wages more.  When it comes to renewal time:

Will you renew?

I'm not sure, i would like a payrise.

I can't afford it (he says whilst looking at brochures for a new Genesis), but as you only have 1 year of employment, you can either take the same wage, or go home and start a new visa process.

Ok, i will take 2.1m won again.

This will give so much more power to the employers to dictate the market.  They can hold anyone to ransom, as moving to a new employer will be all but impossible without leaving the country.

If you want to change employers after finishing a contract, how do you do this without a D10 visa?

I agree that it takes what little independence e2s had, away.

Doesn't an E2 have a 13th month? You could use the extra month to find a job.
Yes. Pretty sure that was a reason they did that.  That and hoping people would take a look round the peninsula before heading back home.
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: cheolsu on December 07, 2018, 04:02:55 pm
Do they really think someone with years of being a research student and a graduate from a top university is going to want to fill one of those 2.1 hogwon jobs?

I don't agree with the change at all, but this change, like just about every other general change to immigration policy, isn't made with E2 visa holders in mind, nor is it the case that most jobs for foreigners are jobs at hagwons paying 2.1 million won per month. As of 2017, there were 14,000 people on E2 visas, as compared with 20,000 E7s, about 4,000 people on the points visa, as well as 2,000 E1s.
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: sleepy on December 07, 2018, 04:46:34 pm
I can assure everyone that the new D10 VISA rules are 100% true. I got the news from an official source. They will start come january, the old system will cease then.

The D10 VISA system was being abused. Not really by E2 English language teachers, but other VISA types.

Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: hangook77 on December 11, 2018, 02:09:04 pm
Did she give you any legal written notice?  Keep working, pretend to accept it, then near the 11th month demand pro rated severance and a letter of release.  If she fires you and claims there was an agreement, then you ask her to provide proof and deny there was one.  I am assuming you didn't agree.  Then go to the labor board claiming a 109th or 11th month firing.  It is illegal.  Go to work everyday and report in but don't teach classes.  Call the labor board if she bars you entry at that time.  If she didn't write anything down and you didn't sign anything, she can't fire you.  Don't tell her this as she may try.  Then in middle January tell her again what you want.  If she doesn't give it and fires you, she has no proof and you deny having any prior knowledge. 
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: ESLTurtle on December 11, 2018, 02:26:53 pm
fkn r3kt
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: kyndo on December 11, 2018, 03:30:10 pm
Do they really think someone with years of being a research student and a graduate from a top university is going to want to fill one of those 2.1 hogwon jobs?

I don't agree with the change at all, but this change, like just about every other general change to immigration policy, isn't made with E2 visa holders in mind, nor is it the case that most jobs for foreigners are jobs at hagwons paying 2.1 million won per month. As of 2017, there were 14,000 people on E2 visas, as compared with 20,000 E7s, about 4,000 people on the points visa, as well as 2,000 E1s.

I'm not sure where you got your info from, but wikipedia  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_South_Korean_visas)posts some significantly different numbers for E-visa holders for the year 2017.

E-1              7,491
E-2              30,922
E-3              9,618
E-4              1,345
E-5              2,206
E-6              3,765
E-7              47,528
E-9              140,072
E-10            10,720

Not that it really matters: your point stands in that E-2 visa holders are a pretty small minority and were probably not who the gov had in mind when they came up with these changes.  :undecided:
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: AvecPommesFrites on December 11, 2018, 03:46:55 pm
Do they really think someone with years of being a research student and a graduate from a top university is going to want to fill one of those 2.1 hogwon jobs?

I don't agree with the change at all, but this change, like just about every other general change to immigration policy, isn't made with E2 visa holders in mind, nor is it the case that most jobs for foreigners are jobs at hagwons paying 2.1 million won per month. As of 2017, there were 14,000 people on E2 visas, as compared with 20,000 E7s, about 4,000 people on the points visa, as well as 2,000 E1s.

I'm not sure where you got your info from, but wikipedia  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_South_Korean_visas)posts some significantly different numbers for E-visa holders for the year 2017.

E-1              7,491
E-2              30,922
E-3              9,618
E-4              1,345
E-5              2,206
E-6              3,765
E-7              47,528
E-9              140,072
E-10            10,720

Not that it really matters: your point stands in that E-2 visa holders are a pretty small minority and were probably not who the gov had in mind when they came up with these changes.  :undecided:

What's E9? Noraebang Hookers?
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: cheolsu on December 11, 2018, 07:45:57 pm

I'm not sure where you got your info from, but wikipedia  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_South_Korean_visas)posts some significantly different numbers for E-visa holders for the year 2017.

E-1              7,491
E-2              30,922
E-3              9,618
E-4              1,345
E-5              2,206
E-6              3,765
E-7              47,528
E-9              140,072
E-10            10,720

Not that it really matters: your point stands in that E-2 visa holders are a pretty small minority and were probably not who the gov had in mind when they came up with these changes.  :undecided:

I don't know how those numbers are calculated, but I've never seen numbers that high for E2 visas.

Here's another comparable source:

http://www.moj.go.kr/doc_html/viewer/skin/doc.html?fn=438e6b664928d561612c6c28deb357d4&rs=/doc_html/viewer/result/201811/

The E9 visa is called 'non-skilled employment', for people working in areas such as manufacturing or agriculture.
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: Periwinkle on December 12, 2018, 11:56:29 am
For the love of God don't quit when you are on your 11th month. Follow the law to the letter and get out of there as soon as you can.

OP, no disrespect but you sound like a doormat. Your boss has no respect for you because you have tolerated a lot of nonsense that most people in your position would not have tolerated. Your boss has picked up on this and is going to push you and push you because you haven't set any strong boundaries in the past. I'm gonna be even more blunt. If your boyfriend has sided with your boss in the past ( and it sounds like he has ) then he is probably also accustomed to being used as a doormat. The only difference is that he is Korean and is probably used to being crapped on by his superiors. Do better for yourself next go around. I've been in your situation too. You can't be too nice to certain kinds of people. They see that as a weakness. Your time for sticking up for yourself was at the beginning of the contract though. Now suddenly deciding to grow a spine and set boundaries is going to give your boss too much leverage. Follow the law, smile nod and proceed, and then get out. There is no need to devise any elaborate ways to fight her now. The time to fight her was the FIRST time she threw nonsense at you. Good luck!


+1
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: zola on December 12, 2018, 01:46:17 pm

I'm not sure where you got your info from, but wikipedia  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_South_Korean_visas)posts some significantly different numbers for E-visa holders for the year 2017.

E-1              7,491
E-2              30,922
E-3              9,618
E-4              1,345
E-5              2,206
E-6              3,765
E-7              47,528
E-9              140,072
E-10            10,720

Not that it really matters: your point stands in that E-2 visa holders are a pretty small minority and were probably not who the gov had in mind when they came up with these changes.  :undecided:

I don't know how those numbers are calculated, but I've never seen numbers that high for E2 visas.

Here's another comparable source:

http://www.moj.go.kr/doc_html/viewer/skin/doc.html?fn=438e6b664928d561612c6c28deb357d4&rs=/doc_html/viewer/result/201811/

The E9 visa is called 'non-skilled employment', for people working in areas such as manufacturing or agriculture.

If you check the source reference you will see that the number of E2s for 2017 is 14,300. I don't know why the Wikipedia is misrepresenting that. Or maybe I'm not reading the right thing.

http://www.moj.go.kr/doc_html/viewer/skin/doc.html?fn=1bb0551c98af500ae76119d0eb5fd845&rs=/doc_html/viewer/result/201811/

p.39.

Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: Renma on December 12, 2018, 01:50:22 pm
What's E9? Noraebang Hookers?

That would be the E6
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: kyndo on December 13, 2018, 11:56:54 am

I'm not sure where you got your info from, but wikipedia  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_South_Korean_visas)posts some significantly different numbers for E-visa holders for the year 2017.

E-1              7,491
E-2              30,922
E-3              9,618
E-4              1,345
E-5              2,206
E-6              3,765
E-7              47,528
E-9              140,072
E-10            10,720

Not that it really matters: your point stands in that E-2 visa holders are a pretty small minority and were probably not who the gov had in mind when they came up with these changes.  :undecided:

I don't know how those numbers are calculated, but I've never seen numbers that high for E2 visas.

Here's another comparable source:

http://www.moj.go.kr/doc_html/viewer/skin/doc.html?fn=438e6b664928d561612c6c28deb357d4&rs=/doc_html/viewer/result/201811/

The E9 visa is called 'non-skilled employment', for people working in areas such as manufacturing or agriculture.

If you check the source reference you will see that the number of E2s for 2017 is 14,300. I don't know why the Wikipedia is misrepresenting that. Or maybe I'm not reading the right thing.

http://www.moj.go.kr/doc_html/viewer/skin/doc.html?fn=1bb0551c98af500ae76119d0eb5fd845&rs=/doc_html/viewer/result/201811/
p.39.

   Thanks for going to the effort to find that!

   That discrepancy is really bizarre. I mean, wiki isn't always 100% accurate, but...
   I wonder if anybody a bit better at reading Korean than I am would be able to tell us what the paragraphs above the graph says ...  :huh:
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: cheolsu on December 13, 2018, 07:20:31 pm
Here's what the text on pages 38 and 39 says:

"As of late 2017, there were 2,180,498 registered foreigners, an increase of 6.4% (131,075 people) since 2016. The average increase over the past five years has been 8.5%. Registered foreigners now make up 4.21% of the overall population, up from 3.08% in 2013. Based on nationality, Chinese were the largest group (46.7%), followed by Vietnamese (7.8%), Thai (7%), Americans (6.6%), Uzbeks (2.9%) and Filipinos (2.7%). Thais overtook Americans for the first time based on a visa exemption that came into effect in December 2017.

Student visas and industrial trainees saw major increases over last year, but short-term work C4 visas saw the largest increase due to the introduction of a seasonal worker system. Working holiday visas for overseas Koreans decreased, while F4 visas increased by more than 10%."
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: L I on December 13, 2018, 08:31:08 pm
E-2 visas issued:

2010 - 23,317 
2011 - 22,541 
2012 - 21,603 
2013 - 20,030 
2014 - 17,949 
2015 - 16,144 
2016 - 15,450
2017 - 14,352
2018 - 13,897


Looks like demand is shrinking.  :-[
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: Cyanea on December 13, 2018, 08:48:01 pm
Looks like demand is shrinking.

More likely the number of native speakers on F-visas has increased and they are taking all the work.
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: L I on December 13, 2018, 09:15:52 pm
Most F visa holders are from China. Even most F-4s.

(It'd be interesting to see the stats of F visas by country breakdown if anyone has them.)
Title: Re: So she fired me.....
Post by: Cyanea on December 13, 2018, 10:29:06 pm
Most F visa holders are from China. Even most F-4s.

(It'd be interesting to see the stats of F visas by country breakdown if anyone has them.)


Plus, a lot of formerly full time E2 jobs have been broken down into P/T positions filled by F-visas. After-school gigs are a prime example.