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All about South Korea => Life in Korea => Topic started by: KimDuHan on September 21, 2018, 07:33:58 am

Title: Are you a lifer?
Post by: KimDuHan on September 21, 2018, 07:33:58 am
Are you a lifer?

Why or why not?

What are your thoughts on lifers if you aren't one.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Thomas Mc on September 21, 2018, 07:37:05 am
Well how can you know until it is too late? You find yourself having a heart attack thinking "is this it? Dam it! I really was a lifer since I didn't retire in my home country or somewhere tropical"
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: sbk on September 21, 2018, 07:54:43 am
What is a lifer?
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: sojuadventurer on September 21, 2018, 07:55:36 am
Sadly, I probably am at this point...

I was here for a few years and then went home...

Then, I came back and have been here a few more years...

No plans for leaving are on the horizon.

To be fair, I guess it isn't that sad. I just worry about the future here, given that I'm still in E-2 hell (at least, at the moment). But I really wonder what the future will look like, given the difference in work culture here; especially as I get older.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: eastcoast on September 21, 2018, 07:56:14 am
I have been here a long time (in intervals), and have feared becoming a lifer, because I have not met many (if any) that are all there upstairs. However, I have credentialed myself to the point that I am soon going to be back in my home country with a very stable job and upward mobility.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: AMDC on September 21, 2018, 07:57:43 am
If I get hit by a bus today, am I technically a lifer?
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: thunderlips on September 21, 2018, 08:04:41 am
Yeah probably, I do agree it takes a certain kind of crazy to want to be here for the long haul. I do have serious plans to repatriate in 2-3 years for my family's sake.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: oglop on September 21, 2018, 08:04:58 am
If I get hit by a bus today, am I technically a lifer?
technically a deader
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: hangook77 on September 21, 2018, 08:05:07 am
I wonder that myself.  I will go home eventually.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: zola on September 21, 2018, 08:08:40 am
I know a few people who are planning to live here and possibly die here. A few who will work till retirement then plan to go home. Most of them are married. Most are American. I'm always a little surprised when someone tells me they plan to live here forever. Maybe because the idea of that kind of scares me. In a way I envy them. If I really felt comfortable here and enjoyed the country it would be a great place to settle down. Safe. Improving social services. Excellent infrastructure.

But, alas, I am not a lifer. I have been here 5.5 years and it's more than enough. I'm ready to leave. I came here for my wife and I think I have more than put my time in. Korea just doesn't fit me. It's the 5th country I've lived in. It's the only one that within a week of being here I was like "this place....this is not my kind of place". A year later the feeling had only grown.  What's the point of forcing a square peg into a round hole. Some places just don't fit some people.

Korea has enabled me to save a lot and to travel a lot. Most importantly, my little boy was born here. And if it weren't for the doctors and nurses at our local woman's/children's hospital he wouldn't have made it past my wife's 20th week of pregnancy. If we had had the same issue back home, I can almost guarantee that we would have lost the pregnancy. I'll always have a connection to Korea through my family and I'm sure I'll visit after I leave. But I need some distance first. Because right now it tends to drive me up the wall a bit.


Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: oglop on September 21, 2018, 08:12:27 am
i don't want to be a lifer but i also don't want to live back in the uk

i keep trying to look for ways to live in australia again, as i really enjoyed my time there, but (like most places these days) visa restrictions are getting tighter and tighter
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Savant on September 21, 2018, 08:14:34 am
i don't want to be a lifer but i also don't want to live back in the uk

i keep trying to look for ways to live in australia again, as i really enjoyed my time there, but (like most places these days) visa restrictions are getting tighter and tighter

This! I like returning to the UK but living there? Probably not, now that Brexit is a total clusterfeck.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: sligo on September 21, 2018, 08:19:47 am
I know a few people who are planning to live here and possibly die here. A few who will work till retirement then plan to go home. Most of them are married. Most are American. I'm always a little surprised when someone tells me they plan to live here forever. Maybe because the idea of that kind of scares me. In a way I envy them. If I really felt comfortable here and enjoyed the country it would be a great place to settle down. Safe. Improving social services. Excellent infrastructure.

But, alas, I am not a lifer. I have been here 5.5 years and it's more than enough. I'm ready to leave. I came here for my wife and I think I have more than put my time in. Korea just doesn't fit me. It's the 5th country I've lived in. It's the only one that within a week of being here I was like "this place....this is not my kind of place". A year later the feeling had only grown.  What's the point of forcing a square peg into a round hole. Some places just don't fit some people.

Korea has enabled me to save a lot and to travel a lot. Most importantly, my little boy was born here. And if it weren't for the doctors and nurses at our local woman's/children's hospital he wouldn't have made it past my wife's 20th week of pregnancy. If we had had the same issue back home, I can almost guarantee that we would have lost the pregnancy. I'll always have a connection to Korea through my family and I'm sure I'll visit after I leave. But I need some distance first. Because right now it tends to drive me up the wall a bit.

http://youtu.be/RuFeYW-KWC0?t=198 (http://youtu.be/RuFeYW-KWC0?t=198)

This was on TV the other night.  It seems a square peg in a round hole holds things together better!
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: alexisalex on September 21, 2018, 10:03:32 am
i don't want to be a lifer but i also don't want to live back in the uk

i keep trying to look for ways to live in australia again, as i really enjoyed my time there, but (like most places these days) visa restrictions are getting tighter and tighter

This! I like returning to the UK but living there? Probably not, now that Brexit is a total clusterfeck.

Same  :sad:
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: VanIslander on September 21, 2018, 12:11:12 pm
Yes and no.

I've been teaching here for 15 years, the last eight of which have been with no definite exit strategy. I love Mondays here and feel blessed to be able to do something I love for a living.

That said, I am open to considering other countries and dabbling in other professions if the situation arises. I am now on one of those new 2-year e2 visas so I expect to be here until May of 2020 at least. I have two 5-year-old cats and have thought I might teach here until they're old and, well, needing to be buried by my own hands.

I don't imagine retiring here. I certainly fear the hospitals given the horror stories I've heard over the years regarding cleanliness, painkilling and basic nursing services, all deficient in some cases.

So, I may appear to be a lifer and may be from some perspectives, but I expect to be elsewhere, likely back in my home country, before I retire.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: theman3285 on September 21, 2018, 12:21:37 pm
it takes a certain kind of crazy to want to be here for the long haul
It would take a certain kind of crazy for me to go back to South Africa. Every time I open the news, my appreciation for Korea and the (literal) lifeline it's given me skyrockets.

Yes, it's kinda boring. And yes, it's packed to the rafters with sticklers. But at least I can let my guard down and forget about politics for a bit.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Aristocrat on September 21, 2018, 12:21:44 pm
I've been here for a while, but the wife and I will definitely be packing my bags in the next 3-5yrs.
It's MUCH easier to stay here long term if you're married.

I've tried to make some smart financial choices and so far and the longer I stay in Korea, the better it is for my finances.
In the next few months, I will have fully 'jeonsed' (fully paid off) my apartment in Korea (in it's a pretty decent sized one), using my own savings.
I'm lucky as the landlord thinks highly of foreigners, as he thinks we're well-mannered and pay our rent on time. He's willing to make an exception with us to pay jeonse, initially he was relectunant.

The next plan is to get a 'jeonse' loan from the bank. As far as I know, Shinnan is the only bank who considers foreigners for home loans. If that goes through, I'll replace my savings with the loan from the bank and use the savings to augment my unit trust back home. With Korea's low interest rate, I'm hoping to make a tidy sum to finance some investment and residential property back home.

While my salary is stagnant, the savings are astronomical compared to back home, so yeah, with the right plan being long-term in Korea can set you up for life.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Savant on September 21, 2018, 12:26:28 pm
i don't want to be a lifer but i also don't want to live back in the uk

i keep trying to look for ways to live in australia again, as i really enjoyed my time there, but (like most places these days) visa restrictions are getting tighter and tighter

This! I like returning to the UK but living there? Probably not, now that Brexit is a total clusterfeck.

Same  :sad:

We can get Waitrose stuff in Emart.  Boots are starting to pop up all over the place.  Just need a M&S and it'll be just like the UK.  I just googled that and found that there are.... :huh:

If I need M&S stuff then a short break in Hong Kong will do :)
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: kangsheng on September 21, 2018, 01:43:12 pm

But, alas, I am not a lifer. I have been here 5.5 years and it's more than enough. I'm ready to leave. I came here for my wife and I think I have more than put my time in. Korea just doesn't fit me. It's the 5th country I've lived in. It's the only one that within a week of being here I was like "this place....this is not my kind of place". A year later the feeling had only grown.  What's the point of forcing a square peg into a round hole. Some places just don't fit some people.

If the Seinfeld allusion was intentional that was the perfect episode to reference.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: SPQR on September 21, 2018, 01:56:27 pm
i don't want to be a lifer but i also don't want to live back in the uk

Is Korea really better than the UK these days?  Anytime I visit relatives there
it is great.  Food is ten times better.  Scenery and architecture are incomparable.

However, living a visiting are different.  Has the UK sunk down that far?
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: robin_teacher on September 21, 2018, 02:12:21 pm
i don't want to be a lifer but i also don't want to live back in the uk

Is Korea really better than the UK these days?  Anytime I visit relatives there
it is great.  Food is ten times better.  Scenery and architecture are incomparable.

However, living a visiting are different.  Has the UK sunk down that far?

It really depends where in the UK you can find work and afford to live. Where I grew up is mind-numbingly dull with low-employment, high knife-crime, and a love of 60s architecture. Not to mention the cost of petrol if you want to live anywhere without great transport links, which is most places.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: StillInKorea on September 21, 2018, 02:17:19 pm
The UK felt pretty depressing when I visited family this summer. The fishing is a lot better though.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: SPQR on September 21, 2018, 03:07:12 pm
My mother lives in Ayr.  Which is a small seaside town on the west coast of Scotland.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Kolao on September 21, 2018, 05:21:07 pm
Are you a lifer?

Yes

Why or why not?

I am alive

What are your thoughts on lifers if you aren't one.

I am one, however, if someone is alive, they are a lifer, till they die of course. Then it all comes crashing down.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: eggieguffer on September 21, 2018, 05:43:29 pm
i don't want to be a lifer but i also don't want to live back in the uk

Is Korea really better than the UK these days?  Anytime I visit relatives there
it is great.  Food is ten times better.  Scenery and architecture are incomparable.

However, living a visiting are different.  Has the UK sunk down that far?

Supermarkets are better in every respect in the UK and when you get to a certain stage in life that becomes more and more important.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Cyanea on September 21, 2018, 09:03:15 pm
It really depends where in the UK you can find work and afford to live. Where I grew up is mind-numbingly dull with low-employment, high knife-crime, and a love of 60s architecture. Not to mention the cost of petrol if you want to live anywhere without great transport links, which is most places.

Well yes.

UK is lovely to visit and see the countryside (in places) old friends and relatives.

But living there feels too much of a drag somehow. It is a treadmill and if you step of it for more than a year they don't like it and won't let you back on. It is a nanny state. They don't think that far outside of the box in terms of lifeplan and resent people who actually have the courage to step outside of it.

The only way to make it in the UK is to follow the plot and never put a foot wrong. ie do something like this:

Grow up in one town so you get firm friends for life
Graduate with a useful degree or practical qualification
Start at the company and don't move.
Marry and have kids
Get promoted every few years, pay that mortgage


If you're an adventurer like me who was curious about life, then you hardly want to go back and start from scratch in a grimy grey northern town after 15 years away travelling the world. What on earth would I do there? Sign on the dole? Watch telly every night because its always drizzling? Blow my weekly excess 20 quid down the pub every weekend? No thanks. No way.

UK is only good if you have a lot of money and live somewhere nice. Otherwise Korea is better.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: thunderlips on September 21, 2018, 10:51:36 pm
It might be a good idea to define a lifer.

For some people (i.e., US citizens), a lifer might be someone who has been here for more than ten years. That's because pension lump sum refunds are impossible after ten years of residence in Korea; you're locked in the system, as it were.

Or, maybe we could more simply define a lifer as someone who wants to live here for life.

Just thought for food. (Or is it food for thought? Sorry, English isn't my first language.)

Nps doesn't get locked in. Only the private teachers pension that unis usually pay into do. I called to verify this as I am in my tenth year.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: TheEnergizer on September 22, 2018, 01:22:43 am
Possibly me. I really have no problems living here and my wife wants to be close to her family. I've always been a traveller so being close to mine is not a problem.

However lately, I find myself missing the simple things like putting up Halloween decorations on the house and waiting for trick or treaters, Christmas, Thanksgiving with food and football, etc.

Also, although it's possible to get a real house in Korea, it's way more expensive than in the states. As comfortable and convenient as apartment complexes in Korea can be, I want a HOUSE with a yard, garage, garden etc.

I guess we will see as things change. Nothing is ever set in stone.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Cyanea on September 22, 2018, 04:56:21 am
Also, although it's possible to get a real house in Korea, it's way more expensive than in the states. As comfortable and convenient as apartment complexes in Korea can be, I want a HOUSE with a yard, garage, garden etc.

That is easily achievable in America but not in the UK.

So yes, Americans should go home if a garden is what you want.


In Britain you have to be a millionaire to afford a house with an actual garden of any size.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: eggieguffer on September 22, 2018, 05:25:06 am
Also, although it's possible to get a real house in Korea, it's way more expensive than in the states. As comfortable and convenient as apartment complexes in Korea can be, I want a HOUSE with a yard, garage, garden etc.

That is easily achievable in America but not in the UK.

So yes, Americans should go home if a garden is what you want.


In Britain you have to be a millionaire to afford a house with an actual garden of any size.

Like this one on at under 300 grand (390,000 dollars)

https://www.onthemarket.com/details/5640494/

and don't try to claim you were talking only about houses in the South East or houses in big cities or houses near places with jobs for EFL teachers etc.. You said you have to be a millionaire to afford a house with an actual garden of any size in Britain. This is a house in Britain with a massive garden at less than a third of a million quid.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Cyanea on September 22, 2018, 04:23:45 pm
and don't try to claim you were talking only about houses in the South East or houses in big cities or houses near places with jobs for EFL teachers

I was using hyperbole.

Do you know what that is?

It is a literary device that should be detectable by those with an education.


My point was you need to make a lot of money to afford a house with a garden of any useful size.

Quote
Like this one

Thats in the middle of nowhere.

Too far to commute to from anywhere that has jobs enabling a person to afford such a property.

Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: eggieguffer on September 22, 2018, 05:02:40 pm
Quote

Thats in the middle of nowhere.

Too far to commute to from anywhere that has jobs enabling a person to afford such a property.


There are loads of well paid jobs going a few miles from that house in Carmarthenshire. It's a business hub. You're talking out of your arse.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Cyanea on September 22, 2018, 05:43:06 pm
There are loads of well paid jobs going a few miles from that house in Carmarthenshire. It's a business hub.

You mean Swansea? That place with under-average employment rates and a GVA 20% below the UK average?

Maybe thats why the person is selling up.

Quote
a few miles

its 35 km from the aforementioned "business hub". Thats 1 hour driving time every day.

You're going to snap that up with your 2.1M hogwon salary are you? while you also pay off your car and support your family.

Quote
You're talking out of your arse.

Try making counter points in a discussion without resorting to personal attacks for once. You'll find people will respect and listen to what you say more.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: eggieguffer on September 22, 2018, 07:44:36 pm
There are loads of well paid jobs going a few miles from that house in Carmarthenshire. It's a business hub.

You mean Swansea? That place with under-average employment rates and a GVA 20% below the UK average?

Maybe thats why the person is selling up.

Quote
a few miles

its 35 km from the aforementioned "business hub". Thats 1 hour driving time every day




I was using hyperbole.

Do you know what that is?

It is a literary device that should be detectable by those with an education. :smiley:

Quote



You're going to snap that up with your 2.1M hogwon salary are you? while you also pay off your car and support your family.


No, I already own two properties in the UK and one in Korea (all bought and paid for) so not looking to add to the portfolio at the moment





Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Cyanea on September 22, 2018, 08:03:57 pm
I already own two properties in the UK and one in Korea (all bought and paid for) so not looking to add to the portfolio at the moment

Oh sure, you property mogul you  :laugh:   

Putting your monopoly board aside for a moment, seems a bit strange for a tycoon like yourself to be on a chatboard for efl teachers in Korea.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: eggieguffer on September 22, 2018, 08:08:45 pm
I already own two properties in the UK and one in Korea (all bought and paid for) so not looking to add to the portfolio at the moment

Oh sure, you property mogul you  :laugh:   

Putting your monopoly board aside for a moment, seems a bit strange for a tycoon like yourself to be on a chatboard for efl teachers in Korea.

There's a lot of money to be made in Korea in teaching, with or without the F viss, but not in public schools. Also as I was trying to point out, house prices are not that high in the UK outside the south East.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: jimskins on September 23, 2018, 07:10:13 am
I already own two properties in the UK and one in Korea (all bought and paid for) so not looking to add to the portfolio at the moment

Oh sure, you property mogul you  :laugh:   

Putting your monopoly board aside for a moment, seems a bit strange for a tycoon like yourself to be on a chatboard for efl teachers in Korea.


There's a lot of money to be made in Korea in teaching, with or without the F viss, but not in public schools. Also as I was trying to point out, house prices are not that high in the UK outside the south East.

He's right, my sister recently bought a three bed house with a nice garden in a reasonable area of Manchester for 140,000.  At the budget level, we bought a little two-bed terrace to rent out for 87,000 there too.  People who live in the Southern bubble often can't believe you can buy a nice house for less than half a million quid.  I'll stick my neck out and say I expect you can find a house with a nice garden in an ok area of most Northern cities for less than 200,000.  That's hardly monopoly money.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: eggieguffer on September 23, 2018, 04:58:06 pm
I already own two properties in the UK and one in Korea (all bought and paid for) so not looking to add to the portfolio at the moment

Oh sure, you property mogul you  :laugh:   

Putting your monopoly board aside for a moment, seems a bit strange for a tycoon like yourself to be on a chatboard for efl teachers in Korea.


There's a lot of money to be made in Korea in teaching, with or without the F viss, but not in public schools. Also as I was trying to point out, house prices are not that high in the UK outside the south East.

He's right, my sister recently bought a three bed house with a nice garden in a reasonable area of Manchester for 140,000.  At the budget level, we bought a little two-bed terrace to rent out for 87,000 there too.  People who live in the Southern bubble often can't believe you can buy a nice house for less than half a million quid.  I'll stick my neck out and say I expect you can find a house with a nice garden in an ok area of most Northern cities for less than 200,000.  That's hardly monopoly money.

Here's a guide to anyone interested in investing 50 grand, for example.

https://toughnickel.com/real-estate/15-of-the-cheapest-places-in-the-UK-to-buy-a-3-bedroom-house
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Titus Groan on September 23, 2018, 07:57:20 pm
Yes I am...!

 23 years and counting!
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: MayorHaggar on September 24, 2018, 10:52:33 am
Living/working in Korea only makes sense in the short term. I guarantee you that the vast majority of EFL teachers in Korea make more than they would doing random jobs back home, because most EFL teachers are teaching EFL because they have random BA degrees that don't let them get good jobs. Add to that the fact that you pay zero rent while you'd be paying hundreds/thousands of dollars/pounds/euros each month to rent back home because property prices have gotten stupid. And the fact that the cost of living in Korea is pretty decent if you aren't frequently buying electronics or other overpriced items. And the pension refund is nice. As a result after like 5-10 years you can save a massive amount of money compared to living back home.

BUT at some point, even if you are married to a Korean, YOU NEED TO GET OUT.

a) EFL starting salaries are pretty high but even if you stay in Korea a long time, your pay will stagnate after a while. Korean bosses would rather replace you than give you a raise. If you can a boss who actually values your teaching skills you might get a higher salary, but we are talking 2.5m instead of 2.2m. The "it's so easy to walk into a 3.0m job in Korea" people are full of BS.

b) Korea is just not set up for old people AT ALL and they refuse to do anything about it. Most Korean employees get fired at around age 45 because their bosses don't want to keep giving them raises, and they end up having to drive a taxi or run a fried chicken franchise until they die, unless they want to hobble around the neighborhood picking up cardboard boxes. An EFL teacher will probably be able to skirt by until their 50's but at some point an EFL teacher in their 50's is just going to stick out like a sore thumb unless they start their own teaching business. And then at some point they will hit 65 and have to survive on $100 a month in paltry Korean pension payments.


A lot of people on the internet like to talk complete BS about how either a) you can make so much more money back home in the West or b) it's so easy to make a massive salary teaching in Korea. Both are completely false. Most people are making 2.1m to 2.5m in Korea. Most people would make less money in the West or would be paying so much more in rent that they would be effectively earning less. Salaries in the West have sucked ass for years, while rental/housing prices have gone through the roof. All of us can do basic math and all of us looked at what we'd be making in Korea vs. at home, and most people saw more money in Korea. Korea is a difficult and annoying place to live at the best of times and nobody would stay there longer than 6 months if they didn't know for a fact that they were making and saving more than back home.

That said it baffles me how many EFL teachers know they're making good money yet spend it all every month on beer or other crap instead of even bothering to try and save anything. That's fine when you're 24 and have your first interesting job after college, but it's pretty sad when you're in your 30's or 40's.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Thomas Mc on September 24, 2018, 11:27:53 am
Itís all very well to say make some money then get out of tefl before you are in your 40s yet the reality is for many teflers they have nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing, to offer a potential employer at home ( this is not true for teflers in China that have learned that language I concede)

So what is the job back home? Stacking shelves on night shift in Walmart \ Tesco?
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: L I on September 24, 2018, 07:44:13 pm
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe0Kdg7EaPk
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Cyanea on September 24, 2018, 08:08:45 pm
An EFL teacher will probably be able to skirt by until their 50's but at some point an EFL teacher in their 50's is just going to stick out like a sore thumb


It is a pity that Korea is so ageist, because around the world ESL is generally seen as a retirement job as well as being for recent grads.

There are loads of older people who look forward to doing efl after they retire, or if they get laid off early, as a way of travelling and keeping their lives interesting.

Quote
BUT at some point, even if you are married to a Korean, YOU NEED TO GET OUT.

I don't know.. can't the married longtermers just live on privates?

Itís all very well to say make some money then get out of tefl before you are in your 40s yet the reality is for many teflers they have nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing, to offer a potential employer at home

even if you have vocational qualifications, its hard to get back on the treadmill if you have gotten off it for too long. Western employers are terribly unforgiving of any traveller types who wander the earth for years.



Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: oglop on September 24, 2018, 10:06:34 pm
Itís all very well to say make some money then get out of tefl before you are in your 40s yet the reality is for many teflers they have nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing, to offer a potential employer at home ( this is not true for teflers in China that have learned that language I concede)

So what is the job back home? Stacking shelves on night shift in Walmart \ Tesco?
yeah, it's difficult. i'd imagine a lot of people who've been here a while would have decent savings to set themselves up with qualifications/start up costs in a business when they go back. at least, you would definitely need a plan

one of the reasons i would love to get Australian citizenship; teaching ESL is a fairly decently paid career, and is something a lot of people do, even when they're older. i would happily do that if i could. other English-speaking countries? probably largely unfeasible
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Cyanea on September 25, 2018, 01:54:40 am
teaching ESL .. is something a lot of people do, even when they're older.

That goes for most countries.

Its only Korea that hates old people.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: VanIslander on September 25, 2018, 04:09:19 am
I've worked in small hagwons in smaller cities/towns for the last 15+ years and I'm pushing 50 years old and there's been PLENTY OF.OLDER TEACHERS. A 69-year-old retired white female teacher from south african elementary school, a 56-year-old British radio host turned two decade esler, a 59-year-old Canadian guy finishing off his distance master's degree, the  52-year-old ex-businessman who decided to spend a few years teaching before his early pension kicks in... PLUS A.LOT i've met and hung out with... the 53yearold brit with a condo in cyprus, the 52yearold with a motorcycle, ... i could go on but my 47 year old teacher friend from manchester is awaitibg my arrival in pohang tomorrow at 9am so i gotta go...

Get out of the big cities and see how very many older folks are teaching esl.

Endnote: im pushing 50 yet my director is older and three of the nine teachers at the hagwon are older than me... hard to feel so old when 4th of 9... remember, ive been in this country since 2002 and have worked at four different hagwons and my experiences support the idea that there are plenty of older teachers welcomed to teach here.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: eggieguffer on September 25, 2018, 04:52:00 am
It just depends on the kind of teaching you're talking about. For Kids and conversation classes for adults, young dynamic or 'handsome' teachers, are in demand, for IELTS, EAP, teacher training etc... they want someone who knows what they're doing and age isn't important.

Business classes can go either way, it depends on the company. I find when teaching adults who actually need English in a real way, ie they're jetting off abroad for business meetings every other week, they want someone with real knowledge. However some business classes veer more towards the bored housewife sector and are more interested in whether the teacher's kind/dynamic/handsome etc.. than what they actually learn. In those classes they tend to be absent a lot more, have little or no knowledge about culture outside Korea and show no interest in finding out, and only ever ask you questions about how you feel about Korea.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: chimp on September 27, 2018, 02:58:24 pm
Itís all very well to say make some money then get out of tefl before you are in your 40s yet the reality is for many teflers they have nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing, to offer a potential employer at home ( this is not true for teflers in China that have learned that language I concede)

So what is the job back home? Stacking shelves on night shift in Walmart \ Tesco?

I'm sorry to hear you have nothing to offer anybody in the market, employers in the market no less
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: leaponover on September 27, 2018, 03:29:30 pm
Definitely a lifer.  Married with stepchildren, own a hagwon, just bought a house. 

Just came back from visiting my first Asian country (Japan) and have only one thought.  I'm glad I got to visit Japan, and I'm glad I don't live there. 

I can see why people don't like Korea, but what I don't understand is why they say it with such arrogance as that it has to be accepted as fact.  Someone said "it's a difficult place to live at the best of times" and my answer to that is difficult people have a difficult time living here.  People who are not tied to unwavering ideological principles and can go with the flow and also don't get annoyed by any small detail should have no problem thriving here.  It's the safest place I've ever lived.  It has the best customer service I've ever encountered, and it is very lucrative for someone who has very little marketable skills.  I came here as a tabula rasa and let it mold me rather than me trying to mold my surroundings.  That's an exercise in futility.

With that being said, the little things that annoy me are my own hangups (spitting, playing a cell phone on it's highest volume in a restaurant so your kid can watch a movie while you eat, eating like a horse from a trough).  Those are all my own cultural inheritances that I need to wipe clean in order to enjoy a foreign country.  If I can't do that why did I even come here?  I came here with the idea that I would put in two years no matter what and reevaluate.  Six months in I realized I couldn't think of another place I'd rather be.

What I think of other lifers...I respect them a lot as I know they've been brave enough to endure and eventually thrive in a foreign country.  Not everyone can do that.  This forum is indicative of that.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: MayorHaggar on September 29, 2018, 05:04:26 am
Someone said "it's a difficult place to live at the best of times" and my answer to that is difficult people have a difficult time living here.  People who are not tied to unwavering ideological principles and can go with the flow and also don't get annoyed by any small detail should have no problem thriving here.  It's the safest place I've ever lived.  It has the best customer service I've ever encountered, and it is very lucrative for someone who has very little marketable skills.  I came here as a tabula rasa and let it mold me rather than me trying to mold my surroundings.  That's an exercise in futility.

I'm going to make a list of objectively bad things about South Korea. Things that can't be chalked up to cultural differences or "racism," things that have nothing to do with "why can't I buy fresh Stilton cheese in rural Kimchi-eup," things that have nothing to do with one's lack of Korean skill or dislike of kimchi. If you have no problem with these things you basically have Stockholm Syndrome and are constantly having to convince yourself that you haven't made a bad decision to live in Korea forever. If you were rich you could run away from some of these, but you can't run away from pollution or North Korea!

- constant sewer stink everywhere unless you spend all your time in one of the few neighborhoods with properly sealed sewer lines

- low quality food ingredients that will constantly mess up your stomach. You may brag about your "iron stomach" but at some point your defenses will be breached and you will never be the same.

- Korean neighbors being noisy at 2AM because your apartment's walls are literally made of styrofoam

- everything crowded all the time

- everything noisy all the time because Koreans have bought into the Japanese theory that being noisy and appearing "busy" are the best ways to drive sales, not providing good products or good customer service

- North Korea

- half of South Koreans and their beloved dork president literally think North Korea is a good and glorious country simply because it's Korean, and ignore the fact that it constantly threatens nuclear genocide against them

- again, the crappy pension. How skilled are you at picking up cardboard boxes?

- THE POLLUTION. OH GOD, THE POLLUTION.

- HORRIBLE, dangerous, homicidal drivers everywhere on the road

- the way Koreans ignore/justify/minimize things they know are objectively bad, like the pollution or the bad driving, meaning they will never ever get fixed because of saving face.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on September 29, 2018, 09:30:08 am
Someone said "it's a difficult place to live at the best of times" and my answer to that is difficult people have a difficult time living here.  People who are not tied to unwavering ideological principles and can go with the flow and also don't get annoyed by any small detail should have no problem thriving here.  It's the safest place I've ever lived.  It has the best customer service I've ever encountered, and it is very lucrative for someone who has very little marketable skills.  I came here as a tabula rasa and let it mold me rather than me trying to mold my surroundings.  That's an exercise in futility.

I'm going to make a list of objectively bad things about South Korea. Things that can't be chalked up to cultural differences or "racism," things that have nothing to do with "why can't I buy fresh Stilton cheese in rural Kimchi-eup," things that have nothing to do with one's lack of Korean skill or dislike of kimchi. If you have no problem with these things you basically have Stockholm Syndrome and are constantly having to convince yourself that you haven't made a bad decision to live in Korea forever. If you were rich you could run away from some of these, but you can't run away from pollution or North Korea!

- constant sewer stink everywhere unless you spend all your time in one of the few neighborhoods with properly sealed sewer lines

- low quality food ingredients that will constantly mess up your stomach. You may brag about your "iron stomach" but at some point your defenses will be breached and you will never be the same.

- Korean neighbors being noisy at 2AM because your apartment's walls are literally made of styrofoam

- everything crowded all the time

- everything noisy all the time because Koreans have bought into the Japanese theory that being noisy and appearing "busy" are the best ways to drive sales, not providing good products or good customer service

- North Korea

- half of South Koreans and their beloved dork president literally think North Korea is a good and glorious country simply because it's Korean, and ignore the fact that it constantly threatens nuclear genocide against them

- again, the crappy pension. How skilled are you at picking up cardboard boxes?

- THE POLLUTION. OH GOD, THE POLLUTION.

- HORRIBLE, dangerous, homicidal drivers everywhere on the road

- the way Koreans ignore/justify/minimize things they know are objectively bad, like the pollution or the bad driving, meaning they will never ever get fixed because of saving face.

I think you made leaponover's point.

'Everything crowded all the time'- WTH did you expect moving to one of the most densely populated countries on Earth?
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: eggieguffer on September 29, 2018, 09:41:11 am
Quote
'Everything crowded all the time'- WTH did you expect moving to one of the most densely populated countries on Earth?

Whether he should have expected it or not doesn't change the fact that it's a factor that makes living in Korea unpleasant. It's like when people say Korea is filled with ugly architecture and you say 'WTH do you expect when it was mostly bombed to crap in the Korean war'? Sure, but it doesn't change the fact that it's filled with ugly architecture.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Thomas Mc on September 29, 2018, 12:06:10 pm
Itís all very well to say make some money then get out of tefl before you are in your 40s yet the reality is for many teflers they have nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing, to offer a potential employer at home ( this is not true for teflers in China that have learned that language I concede)

So what is the job back home? Stacking shelves on night shift in Walmart \ Tesco?

I'm sorry to hear you have nothing to offer anybody in the market, employers in the market no less

I do have something to offer a school if I decide to get properly qualified as a teacher. However other "graduate" jobs I'm not so sure.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Titus Groan on September 29, 2018, 09:38:40 pm
Man,

  You people worry too much!

  What do you think this world is gong to be like in the next decade?

 Grab what you can now because things are going down really fast; there's no Star Trek future for us - we are basically done!

  I am constantly amazed at the delusional notions of some glorious, happy future I see on websites like this all the time; I guess none of you really studied History... and with the whole PC/SJW smartphone mindlessness I encounter daily here I truly despair for our future!
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: leaponover on October 01, 2018, 02:24:32 pm
Someone said "it's a difficult place to live at the best of times" and my answer to that is difficult people have a difficult time living here.  People who are not tied to unwavering ideological principles and can go with the flow and also don't get annoyed by any small detail should have no problem thriving here.  It's the safest place I've ever lived.  It has the best customer service I've ever encountered, and it is very lucrative for someone who has very little marketable skills.  I came here as a tabula rasa and let it mold me rather than me trying to mold my surroundings.  That's an exercise in futility.

I'm going to make a list of objectively bad things about South Korea. Things that can't be chalked up to cultural differences or "racism," things that have nothing to do with "why can't I buy fresh Stilton cheese in rural Kimchi-eup," things that have nothing to do with one's lack of Korean skill or dislike of kimchi. If you have no problem with these things you basically have Stockholm Syndrome and are constantly having to convince yourself that you haven't made a bad decision to live in Korea forever. If you were rich you could run away from some of these, but you can't run away from pollution or North Korea!

- constant sewer stink everywhere unless you spend all your time in one of the few neighborhoods with properly sealed sewer lines

- low quality food ingredients that will constantly mess up your stomach. You may brag about your "iron stomach" but at some point your defenses will be breached and you will never be the same.

- Korean neighbors being noisy at 2AM because your apartment's walls are literally made of styrofoam

- everything crowded all the time

- everything noisy all the time because Koreans have bought into the Japanese theory that being noisy and appearing "busy" are the best ways to drive sales, not providing good products or good customer service

- North Korea

- half of South Koreans and their beloved dork president literally think North Korea is a good and glorious country simply because it's Korean, and ignore the fact that it constantly threatens nuclear genocide against them

- again, the crappy pension. How skilled are you at picking up cardboard boxes?

- THE POLLUTION. OH GOD, THE POLLUTION.

- HORRIBLE, dangerous, homicidal drivers everywhere on the road

- the way Koreans ignore/justify/minimize things they know are objectively bad, like the pollution or the bad driving, meaning they will never ever get fixed because of saving face.

1.  I've never ever experienced sewer smell anywhere I've lived, worked or visited.  It's literally never happened to me and I say that with all honesty

2.  I've had a weak stomach all my life.  My bowel experiences don't differ here or in America.  It's the same exact thing for me

3.  Living in a city is noisy.  How is this any different than any other city in a country?  Lot less sirens here than USA that's for sure.

4.   You are definitely proving my point.  It's almost like you've never lived anywhere....

5.  Really would like to know one way North Korea has actually affected your life.  Seriously....

6.  You used the word "dork" in a sentence?  For real?

7.  Saving tons of money, not really worried about a pension to survive

8.  Have you looked at an air quality index map?  Many places in Korea are the same as the USA, and all mostly green and yellow like my home country.  Japan, China and India are WAY worse.

9.  Again, this is the first place you have ever lived?

You really did prove my point, these are all things you are super sensitive to and obviously can't get past.  Most people don't sit around worrying about North Korea and driving.  I feel sorry for you.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: oglop on October 01, 2018, 02:30:49 pm
i often get a dodgy stomach if i eat korean food in a restaurant. if i cook at home (or my wife cooks), i'm always fine.

also, i'll often buy veg in a mart only to find when i get home, it's mouldy or very unfresh (something you can't tell until you unwrap it from the mass of plastic/polystyrene - is that why they wrap it like this?)

anyone else experience either of these?

p.s. uh oh it's turning into the ranting thread
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: #basedcowboyshirt on October 01, 2018, 03:07:02 pm
i often get a dodgy stomach if i eat korean food in a restaurant. if i cook at home (or my wife cooks), i'm always fine.

also, i'll often buy veg in a mart only to find when i get home, it's mouldy or very unfresh (something you can't tell until you unwrap it from the mass of plastic/polystyrene - is that why they wrap it like this?)

anyone else experience either of these?

p.s. uh oh it's turning into the ranting thread
I eat Korean food out in restaurants a lot, and it's very, very rare that I or my significant other get any sort of stomach issues. But, I do have a really strong stomach, and everyone's stomach is different, so I'm not trying to dispute the fact that you're getting sick. One general rule of thumb I have is to always avoid franchise restaurants. They're a lot more likely to make you sick than smaller (but still busy) places, in my experience.

As for the vegetables thing, so many people say that their veg here is moldy or rotten or something, but again, honestly, I've never had that, aside from a few isolated incidents, but definitely the exception rather than the rule.

My general rule for buying veg is either buy it at Emart or Homeplus (downside - super expensive) or buy it at a local market (read: not a mart). Follow that rule by buying seasonal when possible, and carefully inspecting your veg before you buy it. If something's in a big styrofoam tray or something, I don't buy it, because that's stupid and I don't want to support that practice. Also, like you said, you can't properly inspect it before buying. So, anything like that becomes a hard pass for me.

Sneaky things people do: put older, lower-grade fruit on the bottom of baskets where you can't see it.
Or, when you're buying stuff, they'll often choose the stuff they want to move first (read: the oldest), so it's best to select your own fruit and veg when you're buying it - don't go by what they hand you.

I do find in the summer (especially this summer) fruit was going bad a lot quicker than normal, due to the heat and probably inadequate storage and transportation conditions, though.

But yeah. I just check my fruit and veg before buying it. I'd say maybe 3-5% of what I buy is off, which is pretty acceptable to me.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Kayos on October 01, 2018, 03:27:35 pm
i often get a dodgy stomach if i eat korean food in a restaurant. if i cook at home (or my wife cooks), i'm always fine.

also, i'll often buy veg in a mart only to find when i get home, it's mouldy or very unfresh (something you can't tell until you unwrap it from the mass of plastic/polystyrene - is that why they wrap it like this?)

anyone else experience either of these?

p.s. uh oh it's turning into the ranting thread

I get that buying vegetable / fruit one a lot here. I literally bought a broccoli the other day, got home, and when I went to use it, found out it was moldy on the inside. >.< Had to toss it and buy a new one.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: zola on October 01, 2018, 03:44:19 pm
i often get a dodgy stomach if i eat korean food in a restaurant. if i cook at home (or my wife cooks), i'm always fine.

also, i'll often buy veg in a mart only to find when i get home, it's mouldy or very unfresh (something you can't tell until you unwrap it from the mass of plastic/polystyrene - is that why they wrap it like this?)

anyone else experience either of these?

p.s. uh oh it's turning into the ranting thread

The quality of "fresh" produce sucks here. Way way overpriced. Often past the point it should be sold. And why do you have to buy everything in bulk loads? I don't want to buy a bag of apples for 12,000. Because odds are they are going to taste like raw potatoes and be soft and wooly. So I'd rather just a buy a couple and try them out, before committing to dropping that much money. So many vegetables are half rotten. 3,000 won for a spongy, yellowing head of broccoli.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: leaponover on October 01, 2018, 04:20:40 pm
i often get a dodgy stomach if i eat korean food in a restaurant. if i cook at home (or my wife cooks), i'm always fine.

also, i'll often buy veg in a mart only to find when i get home, it's mouldy or very unfresh (something you can't tell until you unwrap it from the mass of plastic/polystyrene - is that why they wrap it like this?)

anyone else experience either of these?

p.s. uh oh it's turning into the ranting thread

The quality of "fresh" produce sucks here. Way way overpriced. Often past the point it should be sold. And why do you have to buy everything in bulk loads? I don't want to buy a bag of apples for 12,000. Because odds are they are going to taste like raw potatoes and be soft and wooly. So I'd rather just a buy a couple and try them out, before committing to dropping that much money. So many vegetables are half rotten. 3,000 won for a spongy, yellowing head of broccoli.

I agree with this.  You certainly have to shop around to find quality vegetables and even if you think you've found a good container it's just fresh ones with rotten ones buried underneath.  Farming union has too much power around here and don't offer quality goods.  Fruit and vegetables suck anyway.  Eat meat and only meat e'ery day and all day.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: StillInKorea on October 01, 2018, 05:32:18 pm
Big Nonghyup stores tend to have better produce. Not so much the smaller ones though.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Aristocrat on October 01, 2018, 06:37:38 pm
i often get a dodgy stomach if i eat korean food in a restaurant. if i cook at home (or my wife cooks), i'm always fine.

also, i'll often buy veg in a mart only to find when i get home, it's mouldy or very unfresh (something you can't tell until you unwrap it from the mass of plastic/polystyrene - is that why they wrap it like this?)

anyone else experience either of these?

p.s. uh oh it's turning into the ranting thread

The quality of "fresh" produce sucks here. Way way overpriced. Often past the point it should be sold. And why do you have to buy everything in bulk loads? I don't want to buy a bag of apples for 12,000. Because odds are they are going to taste like raw potatoes and be soft and wooly. So I'd rather just a buy a couple and try them out, before committing to dropping that much money. So many vegetables are half rotten. 3,000 won for a spongy, yellowing head of broccoli.

While ago, I remember going to the local supermarket to buy a 1 large or 2 small tomatoes, I was in the middle of cooking something (forgot what, and just needed a single tomato). They only sold a massive bag of tomatoes and I wasn't interested. On the way to another market nearby, I walked past a small fruit and veg shop. It was a hot day and the ajumma who ran the shop put a large bucket of tomatoes outside on display, on a scorcher of a day.

Well, tomatoes are pretty resilient to heat, but even they have their limits. I ask for one tomato, she gives a stern no... she wants me to buy something like 3kg. I walk away. She could've had a a 천 in her pocket, but now she's got nothing and her tomatoes are probably going to sit there whole day and go off.
Not long after, the shop closed down.

For a nation whose people focused on nothing else but agrarian endeavors throughout the entirety of their history, it's quite surprising that the quality of the fruit and veg is so sh*t. 
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: MayorHaggar on October 01, 2018, 06:52:04 pm
Never really had a problem with Korean veggies but then they're all weird and didn't want to cook with them anyway. Fruit on the other hand is a complete gamble, no matter what store you go to you're gambling on half of it being moldy/rotten. Even meat is dodgy, half the time I'd buy chicken and I'd get home and it would be rotten despite looking fine in the container and having a good sell-by date.



8.  Have you looked at an air quality index map?  Many places in Korea are the same as the USA, and all mostly green and yellow like my home country.  Japan, China and India are WAY worse.

LOL you just showed that you can't be trusted about anything you say. Just sticking your head in the sand like a good Korean and refusing to admit that you're sucking down massive amounts of pollutants every day. And Japan is worse? LOL. Korea is so much worse than Japan or the West.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Telephone33 on October 03, 2018, 03:58:56 pm
Man I cringe at the thought of becoming a lifer. Not my cup of tea for sure. In fact stacking the shelves back home at Wallmart would be better.

That being said I definitely get that we are all built differently and more power to those that will happily live here indefinitely.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Savant on October 03, 2018, 04:27:44 pm
Re: Korean sewer stink. It is a real thing.

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20181003000213
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: oglop on October 03, 2018, 05:12:51 pm
Quote
unpleasant smells from food waste

for me, this is the most unbearable smell in korea. in the summer, walking past a huge heap of food waste  :-[
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: MayorHaggar on October 03, 2018, 05:50:34 pm
Re: Korean sewer stink. It is a real thing.

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20181003000213

That doesn't make any sense. It says it's because nearly everyone in Korea has a septic tank, even in big cities like Seoul. In the US a septic tank is a giant cistern built into the ground to hold your poos, and btw they don't smell. And you need to have a truck come by now and then to drain it. I have never seen any evidence of septic tanks in residential or commercial buildings in Korea. I have never seen shit trucks (honey wagons) going around collecting sewage but then again I don't know what a Korean honey wagon would look like.

The sewage stank smell always came from the drain gutters that run along streets. Koreans would put floor mats over grates in the sidewalk to block the smell, maybe they were grates over the septic tanks? And in my old neighborhood in Daegu, the city came by and replaced some drainpipes under the road and after that a lot of the sewer smell went away, which had previously been horrifically overpowering sometimes, and would reach up the stairwell into my apartment in the rear of the building, forcing me to put weather stripping around the door to block poo drafts from coming in. Before this I used to live in a very newly built neighborhood in Cheongju and there was zero sewer stank.

Anyone with more housing experience in Korea know about if it's true that millions of densely situated apartments and buildings all have secret septic tanks hidden under them? Maybe they have some kind of hybrid system where it sits for a bit before getting flushed into the city sewage system.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: T.J. on October 03, 2018, 07:28:08 pm
Canít speak to apartments and larger buildings but every villa Iíve seen constructed has had a septic tank. Ours does as well. And yes, honey pot trucks come by and empty them. And they stink up the area pretty well in the process. Large white trucks with a green stripe in our area.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Sprivill on October 03, 2018, 09:44:46 pm
Man, that sucks. I hate septic tanks. Would it be that expensive to build a sewer system in the area?
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: MayorHaggar on October 04, 2018, 06:28:48 am
Lived 5 years in Sparkling Korea and never saw honey wagons.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Andyman on October 04, 2018, 07:07:00 am
I don't think I've ever experienced this rotten food thing. Where are you all shopping? Get your vegetables from Gachi CSA or iCoop or go to a traditional market. Problem solved.

The giant, overpackaged quantities of fruit, on the other hand, are a legit annoyance. In fact, all the wasteful excessive packaging in Korea needs to stop. Even when I shop at the Coop, which is supposed to prioritize environmental concerns, I produce a small mountain of plastic waste just getting the food from the shopping bag to the fridge. Do we really need individually wrapped carrots?

If Korea could deal with the driving, spitting and garbage, I feel like I could put up with all the rest for a longer period of time. Having said that, there seem to be some very clean and efficiently managed districts in Seoul, something I can't say for anywhere else I've been in Korea.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: JNM on October 04, 2018, 09:32:54 am
Lived 5 years in Sparkling Korea and never saw honey wagons.
My first apartment building was visited by them regularly.
It was in a fairly wealthy part of Banpo-dong, so it was a bit of a shock.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: leaponover on October 04, 2018, 10:19:24 am
Never really had a problem with Korean veggies but then they're all weird and didn't want to cook with them anyway. Fruit on the other hand is a complete gamble, no matter what store you go to you're gambling on half of it being moldy/rotten. Even meat is dodgy, half the time I'd buy chicken and I'd get home and it would be rotten despite looking fine in the container and having a good sell-by date.



8.  Have you looked at an air quality index map?  Many places in Korea are the same as the USA, and all mostly green and yellow like my home country.  Japan, China and India are WAY worse.

LOL you just showed that you can't be trusted about anything you say. Just sticking your head in the sand like a good Korean and refusing to admit that you're sucking down massive amounts of pollutants every day. And Japan is worse? LOL. Korea is so much worse than Japan or the West.

Did you actually go to the site and look?  Didn't think so.  I just taught a lesson on it.  Grass always seems greener on the other side.  Even my Korean students thought the air quality was bad, but were shocked to see that it's comparable to and at times better than Japan and way better than countries to the west like China and Indonesia.  But hey, you just proved you don't research anything and just vomit things you've heard or your own personal experiences.  You probably still stick your finger in your mouth and hold it up in the air to see if it's windy.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: leaponover on October 04, 2018, 10:22:55 am
Re: Korean sewer stink. It is a real thing.

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20181003000213

That doesn't make any sense. It says it's because nearly everyone in Korea has a septic tank, even in big cities like Seoul. In the US a septic tank is a giant cistern built into the ground to hold your poos, and btw they don't smell. And you need to have a truck come by now and then to drain it. I have never seen any evidence of septic tanks in residential or commercial buildings in Korea. I have never seen shit trucks (honey wagons) going around collecting sewage but then again I don't know what a Korean honey wagon would look like.

The sewage stank smell always came from the drain gutters that run along streets. Koreans would put floor mats over grates in the sidewalk to block the smell, maybe they were grates over the septic tanks? And in my old neighborhood in Daegu, the city came by and replaced some drainpipes under the road and after that a lot of the sewer smell went away, which had previously been horrifically overpowering sometimes, and would reach up the stairwell into my apartment in the rear of the building, forcing me to put weather stripping around the door to block poo drafts from coming in. Before this I used to live in a very newly built neighborhood in Cheongju and there was zero sewer stank.

Anyone with more housing experience in Korea know about if it's true that millions of densely situated apartments and buildings all have secret septic tanks hidden under them? Maybe they have some kind of hybrid system where it sits for a bit before getting flushed into the city sewage system.

Well hell, you've never seen it so it MUST not exist!!  FYI:  Two weeks ago they came and emptied out the septic tank of the business across the street from ours with one of your elusive poo trucks.  Smelled horrible while they were doing it.  I should have taken a picture for you to ease your mind.  Another fact for you in case you were worried, gnomes don't steal your socks.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Kyndo on October 04, 2018, 02:17:59 pm
Did you actually go to the site and look?  Didn't think so.  I just taught a lesson on it.  Grass always seems greener on the other side.  Even my Korean students thought the air quality was bad, but were shocked to see that it's comparable to and at times better than Japan and way better than countries to the west like China and Indonesia.

South Korea is certainly nowhere near the top of the list for worst air pollution in the world: most foreign teachers notice it so much only because they come from some of the best countries in the world with respect to air quality.

   That said almost every source that I could find agrees that, on average, Japanese air is quite a bit less polluted than Korea's if for no other reason than it's further away from the atmospheric dumpster fire that is industrial China.

Source 1 (https://qz.com/794542/air-pollution-map-by-country-fine-particulate-matter/) 27 vs 13 micrograms per cubic meter
Source 2 (https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/PM25-air-pollution)  29 vs 13  micrograms per cubic meter
Source 3 (https://www.numbeo.com/pollution/rankings_by_country.jsp) 53 vs 35 on the "pollution index"
Source 4 (http://maps.who.int/airpollution/) mostly orange (bad) vs mostly yellow/green (better) on WHO Global Ambient Air Pollution Map.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: buckybee on October 04, 2018, 02:38:57 pm
Sounds like a lot of you live in a big city. Noise, bad smells, shitty people, not fresh fruit, and other things.
I''m from a big city, it's pretty much a given in any big city to be like that. San Francisco literally has shit on the streets. New York's sewers reek so bad. And LA is not much better. I can't speak for countries and cities I've never been to before but I'm sure they don't smell very good too.
Maybe some of you should try living on the countryside to avoid some of the unpleasantness of the city. It's even less crowded. I lived on the countryside for 3 years, and I now live in a city again. I don't really have all your problems but it's stuff I can live with.
Korea is nice place to live for me. There is negative qualities in every place, but I'm not angry that Korea is not America. I just appreciate where I am and the opportunities I have to have a good life. If you guys aren't having a good life, then maybe you should try to change up your area or try out another country.
I'm a lifer because I'm enjoying my life.  ;D
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Mr C on October 04, 2018, 03:06:27 pm
Re: Korean sewer stink. It is a real thing.

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20181003000213

That doesn't make any sense. It says it's because nearly everyone in Korea has a septic tank, even in big cities like Seoul. In the US a septic tank is a giant cistern built into the ground to hold your poos, and btw they don't smell. And you need to have a truck come by now and then to drain it. I have never seen any evidence of septic tanks in residential or commercial buildings in Korea. I have never seen shit trucks (honey wagons) going around collecting sewage but then again I don't know what a Korean honey wagon would look like.

The sewage stank smell always came from the drain gutters that run along streets. Koreans would put floor mats over grates in the sidewalk to block the smell, maybe they were grates over the septic tanks? And in my old neighborhood in Daegu, the city came by and replaced some drainpipes under the road and after that a lot of the sewer smell went away, which had previously been horrifically overpowering sometimes, and would reach up the stairwell into my apartment in the rear of the building, forcing me to put weather stripping around the door to block poo drafts from coming in. Before this I used to live in a very newly built neighborhood in Cheongju and there was zero sewer stank.

Anyone with more housing experience in Korea know about if it's true that millions of densely situated apartments and buildings all have secret septic tanks hidden under them? Maybe they have some kind of hybrid system where it sits for a bit before getting flushed into the city sewage system.

Well hell, you've never seen it so it MUST not exist!!  FYI:  Two weeks ago they came and emptied out the septic tank of the business across the street from ours with one of your elusive poo trucks.  Smelled horrible while they were doing it.  I should have taken a picture for you to ease your mind.  Another fact for you in case you were worried, gnomes don't steal your socks.
Now, this is weird.  I don't have a dog in this hunt, and it is possible that buildings/businesses in parts of Seoul have septic tanks.  But, I feel reasonably confident that that is a rarity, and surely would not be allowed, or even possible, in most districts of Seoul.  There is a massive sewage system, and it is constantly being upgraded--wherever I've lived, its always being upgraded!?!

In addition, there are subway lines, more and more underground power lines, and three stories of underground parking.  Where the heck they gonna put a septic tank?
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: alexisalex on October 04, 2018, 03:06:46 pm
I visited Jeju for the first time recently and I was shocked at how much I loved it.  I went for my summer vacation and everyone told me it would be crowded and everything is too expensive but it wasn't either of those things.

I was amazed at how you can leisurely drive around and stop at any nice beach you see.  Then maybe drive to a beautiful coffee shop/restaurant/gallery/museum that has its own huge garden and acres of space.  Waking up in the morning to the sound of....nothing.  Except the birds and bugs.  It was heaven! 

It has seriously made me consider swapping city life for the countryside.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: kevingrabb on October 04, 2018, 03:10:03 pm
Now, this is weird.  I don't have a dog in this hunt, and it is possible that buildings/businesses in parts of Seoul have septic tanks.  But, I feel reasonably confident that that is a rarity, and surely would not be allowed, or even possible, in most districts of Seoul.  There is a massive sewage system, and it is constantly being upgraded--wherever I've lived, its always being upgraded!?!

In addition, there are subway lines, more and more underground power lines, and three stories of underground parking.  Where the heck they gonna put a septic tank?

Yeah, I've only ever lived in Incheon, Seoul and urban Gyeonggi for the last six years, and I've never heard of any septic tank anywhere.

That said, this is definitely not something I think about ever. Just seems weird that some people think they're really common.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: T.J. on October 04, 2018, 03:25:18 pm
One of my students back in Ď93 still had an outhouse with an open pit beneath it in their yard. This was in Nowon Gu. They tore down their house in Ď96 and built a more modern house with interior bathrooms.

I live in an area that had a lot of single unit houses until about ten years ago. Still a lot of private homes but Iíd say about 80% have been torn down and replaced wth 4-5 story multiple unit villas over the last 10 years. So Iíve seen a lot of construction of these types of buildings. In this particular area 100% of them have a septic tank. There is a building going up soon close to here. Iíll try to get some pics and post em. Some with the mysterious honey truck.

Lifer, here by the way.

And while I donít appreciate some of the more odiferous days in Seoul, there are definitely worse places to be, many of them in the US. Anywhere near a chicken or pig farm can be challenging on days when wind direction is disadvantaged. But the absolute worst was a paper mill in Georgia that was torture to even drive by, that is a terrible stench.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: MayorHaggar on October 04, 2018, 04:47:14 pm

Did you actually go to the site and look?  Didn't think so.  I just taught a lesson on it.  Grass always seems greener on the other side.  Even my Korean students thought the air quality was bad, but were shocked to see that it's comparable to and at times better than Japan and way better than countries to the west like China and Indonesia.  But hey, you just proved you don't research anything and just vomit things you've heard or your own personal experiences.  You probably still stick your finger in your mouth and hold it up in the air to see if it's windy.

Let me guess, Korea's in its usual one week of Fall and the skies are relatively clear, so you decide that one week of decent weather and low air pollution ratings means that Korea's pollution is low all the time. And then when it goes back to "normal" and the AQ ratings are more like 80-200 every day, you'll go completely silent and ignore it. I bet your Korean students LOVED the fact that you went native and ignored science and logic to come to the defense of poor, misunderstood Korea.

Here's some DELICIOUS screenshots I did of AQICN last winter:

(https://i.imgur.com/6IEc5r2.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/VDU8SWa.png)

(http://img.koreatimes.co.kr/upload/thumbnailV2/180121_p00_dust_th590.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/PNt4HD1.png)

(https://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/932/745/9cc.gif)
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: MayorHaggar on October 04, 2018, 04:51:40 pm

Well hell, you've never seen it so it MUST not exist!!  FYI:  Two weeks ago they came and emptied out the septic tank of the business across the street from ours with one of your elusive poo trucks.  Smelled horrible while they were doing it.  I should have taken a picture for you to ease your mind.  Another fact for you in case you were worried, gnomes don't steal your socks.

I'm pretty sure I would have noticed septic trucks driving around. I could be wrong and I'd like more info instead of "this typical Korean article says something without offering any proof so it must be correct." Other people have chimed in but it's along the lines of "once I saw a septic truck in the countryside" or "I saw them in this one neighborhood in Seoul." Surely some people here own property or have enough experience living here that they know about the septic tank situation. Or maybe it's just a weird Seoul thing and as usual the Korean newspaper writer is doing the usual "Seoul is the center of the universe" Korean thing.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: MayorHaggar on October 04, 2018, 04:58:52 pm
Did you actually go to the site and look?  Didn't think so.  I just taught a lesson on it.  Grass always seems greener on the other side.  Even my Korean students thought the air quality was bad, but were shocked to see that it's comparable to and at times better than Japan and way better than countries to the west like China and Indonesia.

South Korea is certainly nowhere near the top of the list for worst air pollution in the world: most foreign teachers notice it so much only because they come from some of the best countries in the world with respect to air quality.

   That said almost every source that I could find agrees that, on average, Japanese air is quite a bit less polluted than Korea's if for no other reason than it's further away from the atmospheric dumpster fire that is industrial China.

Source 1 (https://qz.com/794542/air-pollution-map-by-country-fine-particulate-matter/) 27 vs 13 micrograms per cubic meter
Source 2 (https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/PM25-air-pollution)  29 vs 13  micrograms per cubic meter
Source 3 (https://www.numbeo.com/pollution/rankings_by_country.jsp) 53 vs 35 on the "pollution index"
Source 4 (http://maps.who.int/airpollution/) mostly orange (bad) vs mostly yellow/green (better) on WHO Global Ambient Air Pollution Map.

"Most/all of the pollution is from China" is nationalist Korean/Japanese bullshit. Some of it is, but most of it in Korea is from Korea. Wouldn't surprise me if a lot of Japanese polllution was from Korea, but they create a fair bit on their own. Korea has tons of coal burning power plants that cause most of the pollution, as well as under-regulated factories and a ton of under-regulated cars.

A lot of people in the media talk complete BS about pollution. Korean newspapers say that it's the worst in the OECD or the worst in the world, which is kind of BS because South Korea is small and extremely dense, and they're comparing South Korea, all of which is polluted, to countries like India and China which have small areas of very bad pollution but also massive stretches of rural/barren land where there aren't enough people to create pollution.

As for the people saying it's not so bad, sure, it's not as bad as places like New Delhi or Beijing where a normal day would be like 300+, and a bad day is like 999. But almost everywhere in South Korea is really polluted, and it's such a small dense country that you can't really escape it. I used to live in a rural area and while the pollution wasn't quite as bad as in Seoul or Daegu, it was still really smoggy 95% of the time.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: leaponover on October 04, 2018, 06:21:14 pm

Well hell, you've never seen it so it MUST not exist!!  FYI:  Two weeks ago they came and emptied out the septic tank of the business across the street from ours with one of your elusive poo trucks.  Smelled horrible while they were doing it.  I should have taken a picture for you to ease your mind.  Another fact for you in case you were worried, gnomes don't steal your socks.

I'm pretty sure I would have noticed septic trucks driving around. I could be wrong and I'd like more info instead of "this typical Korean article says something without offering any proof so it must be correct." Other people have chimed in but it's along the lines of "once I saw a septic truck in the countryside" or "I saw them in this one neighborhood in Seoul." Surely some people here own property or have enough experience living here that they know about the septic tank situation. Or maybe it's just a weird Seoul thing and as usual the Korean newspaper writer is doing the usual "Seoul is the center of the universe" Korean thing.

I didn't read the article.  I'm talking about my personal experience in actually seeing them around town, not that they'd be easily noticeable to begin with because why would you be going around looking for septic tank trucks?  You seem to have an answer for everything, even faced with insurmountable evidence unless you just don't believe me.  I just bought a house with my wife and the septic tanks are clearly marked with white posts.  I don't really know what else to tell and not sure I need to say anything else because sounds like you are just one of those people that knows better than everyone else.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: JNM on October 04, 2018, 06:31:47 pm
This must be fake news.


http://koreabizwire.com/seoul-mulls-removal-of-foul-smelling-street-septic-tanks/107347

Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: leaponover on October 04, 2018, 06:37:32 pm

Did you actually go to the site and look?  Didn't think so.  I just taught a lesson on it.  Grass always seems greener on the other side.  Even my Korean students thought the air quality was bad, but were shocked to see that it's comparable to and at times better than Japan and way better than countries to the west like China and Indonesia.  But hey, you just proved you don't research anything and just vomit things you've heard or your own personal experiences.  You probably still stick your finger in your mouth and hold it up in the air to see if it's windy.

Let me guess, Korea's in its usual one week of Fall and the skies are relatively clear, so you decide that one week of decent weather and low air pollution ratings means that Korea's pollution is low all the time. And then when it goes back to "normal" and the AQ ratings are more like 80-200 every day, you'll go completely silent and ignore it. I bet your Korean students LOVED the fact that you went native and ignored science and logic to come to the defense of poor, misunderstood Korea.

Here's some DELICIOUS screenshots I did of AQICN last winter:

(https://i.imgur.com/6IEc5r2.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/VDU8SWa.png)

(http://img.koreatimes.co.kr/upload/thumbnailV2/180121_p00_dust_th590.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/PNt4HD1.png)

(https://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/932/745/9cc.gif)

Fair enough.  So you can cherry pick days and I can cherry pick days.  I looked at it for a few weeks as I was preparing the lesson so i'm totally fine with accepting that I had a limited view of it.  Doesn't seem like you are doing anything different though.

You do realize that Korea is the size of Illinois, yet 70% of it is mountainous and not easily inhabitable.  Of course there is bound to be air pollution.  I can say that it's noticeable and I don't follow the rhetoric that it's all China's fault.  Recent studies show Korea has their own fair share of blame for it.  However, just like New Delhi when you have places packed with people it happens.

At least your list has been whittled down to 1.  I agree air pollution is worse in Korea than Western countries and slightly worse than Japan.  It's certainly something that needs to improve.  It doesn't affect me that adversely, but I'd imagine I'd be more annoyed with it if I lived in Seoul.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: zola on October 04, 2018, 09:41:12 pm
Japan's air is cleaner than Korea's. Many reasons for that. But the fact remains. Tokyo doesn't have emergency days where the air is so bad they make public transport free, because it doesn't get that bad.

OECD says S. Korea has worst air quality among its member states
http://m.yna.co.kr/mob2/en/contents_en.jsp?cid=AEN20180107002100320&site=0300000000&mobile
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: gogators! on October 05, 2018, 04:13:01 am
This must be fake news.


http://koreabizwire.com/seoul-mulls-removal-of-foul-smelling-street-septic-tanks/107347

They usually empty them out late at night under cover of darkness if I'm not mistaken.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Kyndo on October 05, 2018, 12:51:30 pm
South Korea is certainly nowhere near the top of the list for worst air pollution in the world: most foreign teachers notice it so much only because they come from some of the best countries in the world with respect to air quality.
   That said almost every source that I could find agrees that, on average, Japanese air is quite a bit less polluted than Korea's if for no other reason than it's further away from the atmospheric dumpster fire that is industrial China.
Source 1 (https://qz.com/794542/air-pollution-map-by-country-fine-particulate-matter/) 27 vs 13 micrograms per cubic meter
Source 2 (https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/PM25-air-pollution)  29 vs 13  micrograms per cubic meter
Source 3 (https://www.numbeo.com/pollution/rankings_by_country.jsp) 53 vs 35 on the "pollution index"
Source 4 (http://maps.who.int/airpollution/) mostly orange (bad) vs mostly yellow/green (better) on WHO Global Ambient Air Pollution Map.


"Most/all of the pollution is from China" is nationalist Korean/Japanese bullshit. Some of it is, but most of it in Korea is from Korea. Wouldn't surprise me if a lot of Japanese polllution was from Korea, but they create a fair bit on their own. Korea has tons of coal burning power plants that cause most of the pollution, as well as under-regulated factories and a ton of under-regulated cars.
Woah. Baby, cool your jets (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O49EwwUaSsk)! I didn't mean to insinuate that China is responsible for all the air plague that hovers over the Land of the Morning Calm!
   But as NASA's research has shown, it does contribute. If we just sorta deleted China, I feel that Korea's AQI would be a lot closer to Japan's.


A lot of people in the media talk complete BS about pollution. Korean newspapers say that it's the worst in the OECD or the worst in the world, which is kind of BS because South Korea is small and extremely dense, and they're comparing South Korea, all of which is polluted, to countries like India and China which have small areas of very bad pollution but also massive stretches of rural/barren land where there aren't enough people to create pollution.
Several of the sources I linked have taken that into account and use national averages: that is, data from multiple sources within each country and then averaged out.  Any densely populated country (including South Korea) is gonna get the short end of the stick, but it doesn't mean that the data is completely inaccurate: pick a few random spots on a map in india, average out their AQI, and the number will most likely still be higher than that of an average taken in South Korea.

As for the people saying it's not so bad, sure, it's not as bad as places like New Delhi or Beijing where a normal day would be like 300+, and a bad day is like 999. But almost everywhere in South Korea is really polluted, and it's such a small dense country that you can't really escape it. I used to live in a rural area and while the pollution wasn't quite as bad as in Seoul or Daegu, it was still really smoggy 95% of the time.

I'm sure that there are a few nice places, but unfortunately, in my personal experiences, springtime in Korea is pretty bad for air quality all over.  :sad:
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: VanIslander on October 08, 2018, 09:33:42 pm
I visited Jeju for the first time recently and I was shocked at how much I loved it.  I went for my summer vacation and everyone told me it would be crowded and everything is too expensive but it wasn't either of those things.

I was amazed at how you can leisurely drive around and stop at any nice beach you see.  Then maybe drive to a beautiful coffee shop/restaurant/gallery/museum that has its own huge garden and acres of space.  Waking up in the morning to the sound of....nothing.  Except the birds and bugs.  It was heaven! 

It has seriously made me consider swapping city life for the countryside.
I lived in Seogwipo on the southern coast of Jeju for 7 years and it was indeed quiet, clean and beautiful. The locals are not angry, grumpy, stressed out zombies like you see in big cities on the mainland. The 8+ million tourists per year gives a nice vibe in coffee shops, on streets and all around.

I moved to a 'gun' on the mainland last year, an hour from the nearest city, and while it's pretty clean, the vibe is at times... plodding.. a sense of rythmn but without a beat.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: JNM on October 08, 2018, 09:43:24 pm
... a sense of rythmn but without a beat.

I like that.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: T.J. on October 23, 2018, 09:27:28 am
One of my students back in ‘93 still had an outhouse with an open pit beneath it in their yard. This was in Nowon Gu. They tore down their house in ‘96 and built a more modern house with interior bathrooms.

I live in an area that had a lot of single unit houses until about ten years ago. Still a lot of private homes but I’d say about 80% have been torn down and replaced wth 4-5 story multiple unit villas over the last 10 years. So I’ve seen a lot of construction of these types of buildings. In this particular area 100% of them have a septic tank. There is a building going up soon close to here. I’ll try to get some pics and post em. Some with the mysterious honey truck.

Lifer, here by the way.

And while I don’t appreciate some of the more odiferous days in Seoul, there are definitely worse places to be, many of them in the US. Anywhere near a chicken or pig farm can be challenging on days when wind direction is disadvantaged. But the absolute worst was a paper mill in Georgia that was torture to even drive by, that is a terrible stench.

Here’s a pic of a tank prepared to go in at a construction site.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ewypzyvjgty3kza/IMG_6542.JPG?dl=0
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: pkjh on October 23, 2018, 11:06:05 am
One of my students back in Ď93 still had an outhouse with an open pit beneath it in their yard. This was in Nowon Gu. They tore down their house in Ď96 and built a more modern house with interior bathrooms.

I live in an area that had a lot of single unit houses until about ten years ago. Still a lot of private homes but Iíd say about 80% have been torn down and replaced wth 4-5 story multiple unit villas over the last 10 years. So Iíve seen a lot of construction of these types of buildings. In this particular area 100% of them have a septic tank. There is a building going up soon close to here. Iíll try to get some pics and post em. Some with the mysterious honey truck.

Lifer, here by the way.

And while I donít appreciate some of the more odiferous days in Seoul, there are definitely worse places to be, many of them in the US. Anywhere near a chicken or pig farm can be challenging on days when wind direction is disadvantaged. But the absolute worst was a paper mill in Georgia that was torture to even drive by, that is a terrible stench.

Hereís a pic of a tank prepared to go in at a construction site.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ewypzyvjgty3kza/IMG_6542.JPG?dl=0
One of my friend's grandfather lived in an apartment, in Busan way up in the hills near Busan Station, built in the 80's that still had a communal toilet area. The showers were in the living unit, but the toilets were assigned with each tenant given two keys, one to enter the toilet area, and another for the stall. The apartment overall, from what I can gather was mostly lower income. But it was nice enough. However, because of the bathroom situation I wouldn't want to live there.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: T.J. on March 05, 2019, 12:31:23 pm
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4gdlhdlr4jq1n3q/IMG_6800.JPG?dl=0

Photo of trucks used to empty septic tanks

Does the [ i m g ] insert not work with dropbox links?
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: hangook77 on March 05, 2019, 12:45:49 pm
Japan's air is cleaner than Korea's. Many reasons for that. But the fact remains. Tokyo doesn't have emergency days where the air is so bad they make public transport free, because it doesn't get that bad.

OECD says S. Korea has worst air quality among its member states
http://m.yna.co.kr/mob2/en/contents_en.jsp?cid=AEN20180107002100320&site=0300000000&mobile

How many other OECD states are this close to China?  Tokyo is quite the distance away from China. 
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Orkblut on March 05, 2019, 01:14:05 pm
Japan's air is cleaner than Korea's. Many reasons for that. But the fact remains. Tokyo doesn't have emergency days where the air is so bad they make public transport free, because it doesn't get that bad.

OECD says S. Korea has worst air quality among its member states
http://m.yna.co.kr/mob2/en/contents_en.jsp?cid=AEN20180107002100320&site=0300000000&mobile

How many other OECD states are this close to China?  Tokyo is quite the distance away from China.

Hint: It's not China's fault.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: hangook77 on March 05, 2019, 01:39:47 pm
Yeah the air does blow over at this time of year.  When the winds shift direction in summer and at other times of the year, the pollution levels do drop quite a bit. 
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Kyndo on March 05, 2019, 01:50:24 pm
How many other OECD states are this close to China?  Tokyo is quite the distance away from China.

Well, *technically*, Japan is pretty close to the same distance. The shortest distance between South Korea and China is about 200 km while the shortest distance between Japan and China is only about 300 km.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Ronnie Omelettes on March 05, 2019, 01:52:09 pm
Yeah the air does blow over at this time of year.  When the winds shift direction in summer and at other times of the year, the pollution levels do drop quite a bit.

have you ever been outside?
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Lazio on March 05, 2019, 05:43:09 pm
How many other OECD states are this close to China?  Tokyo is quite the distance away from China.

Well, *technically*, Japan is pretty close to the same distance. The shortest distance between South Korea and China is about 200 km while the shortest distance between Japan and China is only about 300 km.
It's not the distance that matters but the typical wind patterns.
The same wind that carries the shit from China to here, doesn't go all the way to Japan, especially not to the Tokyo area.
Korea has very bad air quality only when the wind blows from the West. That's a fact.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Kyndo on March 06, 2019, 12:08:09 pm
How many other OECD states are this close to China?  Tokyo is quite the distance away from China.

Well, *technically*, Japan is pretty close to the same distance. The shortest distance between South Korea and China is about 200 km while the shortest distance between Japan and China is only about 300 km.
It's not the distance that matters but the typical wind patterns.
The same wind that carries the shit from China to here, doesn't go all the way to Japan, especially not to the Tokyo area.
Korea has very bad air quality only when the wind blows from the West. That's a fact.


That's clearly true.
He asked a question, and I gave a technically correct but completely irrelevant answer.
I have to get that out of my system here on waygook, otherwise my students will never learn anything.


(https://media.giphy.com/media/1hMk0bfsSrG32Nhd5K/giphy.gif)


Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: bonker12 on March 28, 2019, 01:33:48 am
I didn't realize my country was a prison for foreginers  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: L I on July 28, 2021, 06:13:02 am
I have been here a long time (in intervals), and have feared becoming a lifer, because I have not met many (if any) that are all there upstairs.

Yikes!

Being in Korea long term causes a deterioration of social skills and/or insanity?

Or were those people off before they came to Korea, those being the types who would want to stay long term, perhaps lacking other options?

A bit of both?
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Liechtenstein on July 28, 2021, 08:50:13 am
I've lived in this part of the world for 16 years, taught in Korea for 6 plus China and have met a lot of ESL teachers who have taught in and around here in various countries. My experience clearly shows me that Korea attracts more than it's fair share of weirdos. There are a few reasons for that, most notably, Korea paid the best for a long time, plus housing and health etc etc.

But perhaps as important  was, you could be an extreme weirdo in Korea and not stand out because Koreans weren't very familiar with westerners. I'm not counting the war, when westerners saved Korea from communism (with pretty much zero appreciation).

So, weirdos went there and fit in. I'm not judging at all. That's just what I think. It was a good place for weirdos to go so they went.

I think the lifers are the weirdos among the weirdo crowd! They don't fit in anywhere else.

There are weirdos where I live too, but not many and they tend to be women. Every guy I know is married to a local, owns a house and a car, most have children and they're living a typical middle-class lifestyle. There doesn't seem to be young kids fresh outta uni here.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Mr C on July 28, 2021, 09:09:44 am
Gordie Lachance: Do you think I'm weird?
Chris Chambers: Definitely.
Gordie Lachance: No man, seriously. Am I weird?
Chris Chambers: Yeah, but so what? Everybody's weird.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: grimlock2 on July 28, 2021, 09:16:21 am
The lifer weirdos in Korea take their vacations in your part of the world, Lichtenstein. Uni teachers who predate the MA requirement, often married with kids, shabbily attired with weird haircuts... They like solo vacations to Thailand and the Philippines, from which they return with looking guilty and satisfied in equal measure.

And the wives just let them go?
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Liechtenstein on July 28, 2021, 09:25:05 am
The lifer weirdos in Korea take their vacations in your part of the world, Lichtenstein. Uni teachers who predate the MA requirement, often married with kids, shabbily attired with weird haircuts... They like solo vacations to Thailand and the Philippines, from which they return with looking guilty and satisfied in equal measure.

Yeah, I've seen that a fair bit over the years.

I didn't like living in Korea but I liked my job and colleagues, I was treated very well, as was my wife, and we lived in a beautiful spot. It got me  where I wanted to be financially.

I liken living in Korea to a very fine hand-tailored Saville Row suit made from asbestos. It looks fantastic, fits perfectly, but itches a bit!  8)
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: thunderlips on July 28, 2021, 10:15:07 am
The lifer weirdos in Korea take their vacations in your part of the world, Lichtenstein. Uni teachers who predate the MA requirement, often married with kids, shabbily attired with weird haircuts... They like solo vacations to Thailand and the Philippines, from which they return looking guilty and satisfied in equal measure.


Ok fair enough, but traveling to SE asian countries to visit pros??? They can do that here. Also the vast majority of lifers with kids here put their family above all else. Hence the bad haircuts and shabby clothes.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: hangook77 on July 28, 2021, 10:51:51 am
I've lived in this part of the world for 16 years, taught in Korea for 6 plus China and have met a lot of ESL teachers who have taught in and around here in various countries. My experience clearly shows me that Korea attracts more than it's fair share of weirdos. There are a few reasons for that, most notably, Korea paid the best for a long time, plus housing and health etc etc.

But perhaps as important  was, you could be an extreme weirdo in Korea and not stand out because Koreans weren't very familiar with westerners. I'm not counting the war, when westerners saved Korea from communism (with pretty much zero appreciation).

So, weirdos went there and fit in. I'm not judging at all. That's just what I think. It was a good place for weirdos to go so they went.

I think the lifers are the weirdos among the weirdo crowd! They don't fit in anywhere else.

There are weirdos where I live too, but not many and they tend to be women. Every guy I know is married to a local, owns a house and a car, most have children and they're living a typical middle-class lifestyle. There doesn't seem to be young kids fresh outta uni here.

Where are you teaching now?  I thought you were in Korea.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on July 28, 2021, 10:55:26 am
I'm not counting the war, when westerners saved Korea from communism (with pretty much zero appreciation).
Odd turn of phrase there.
1) Many Koreans DO show appreciation. There still exists a strong bond between Korea and Turkey, for example due to the war.
2) Question- Do you have this same view and expectation of Europeans and their appreciation towards Americans?
3) Interesting that you say "westerners." I mean really, it should be Americans because they did all the heavy lifting. Are somehow the Germans part of this now?
4) Which leads to the next point- Why are YOU so bothered by this? You aren't American, right? Did you have some relative who fought in the small British contingent? Or is there no connection, but somehow you think you deserve appreciation by extension?
5) Should this gratitude be eternal and for all things in every case? Should Koreans prostrate themselves every time a Westerner passes by? What are you getting at here?
6) Since you seem to be advocating some sort of eternal group credit, surely you believe in eternal group blame, yes? Thus it would be fair for someone to scorn you/Westerners for say, slavery and colonialism, yes? There should be an eternal grudge?

Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: dippedinblush on July 28, 2021, 10:59:18 am
Where are you teaching now?  I thought you were in Korea.

The tropics!!!
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Kyndo on July 28, 2021, 11:19:05 am
The tropics!!!
:laugh:
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: L I on July 28, 2021, 11:44:59 am
They can do that here.

Korean prostitutes don't speak English. Thai prostitutes do. Almost all the "professors" who have lived in Korea for ages have very limited Korean language ability.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Chinguetti on July 28, 2021, 11:45:02 am
Thailand is also cheaper, and as disgusting as this is it's also easier to find child prostitutes. There's also the draw of the ladyboys.

I think the rest comes down to distance -- somewhere outside of Korea, as far away from your family while still getting the most bang for your buck, and far less likely to get seen by someone who knows you.

Anyway, yeah, most people fleeing Korea from scandal that I know of either go back to their home countries or they end up somewhere in SE Asia.

And I also agree, while most lifers here that I've met are normal folks going about their normal lives, there does seem to be a larger percentage of them that are weird in a really bad way. Socially unaware, super judgmental of others, argumentative and quick to jump to conclusions, etc. One guy I met who was like this apparently hadn't started off this way, though, a close friend of his said that over time he'd just kind of become a grumpy old man who hates people. Don't know if that was something that was festering in his personality and just took a while to "bloom" or if it was a result of living in Korea. Could be both.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: SPQR on July 28, 2021, 12:01:40 pm
Korean prostitutes don't speak English. Thai prostitutes do. Almost all the "professors" who have lived in Korea for ages have very limited Korean language ability.

I don't know about the accuracy of this comment.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: L I on July 28, 2021, 12:08:58 pm
Itís pretty accurate. Korean brothels donít want foreigners to be seen going in / going out because it could cause them to lose business. Korean Johns could see the Korean women as ďruinedĒ; foreigners are perceived to be more likely to be carrying STDs. So theyíre not going to receive a warm welcome stepping into a brothel in Korea. Might get turned away. Pretty common from what Iíve heard.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Liechtenstein on July 28, 2021, 12:25:44 pm
Where are you teaching now?  I thought you were in Korea.

I was in Korea for a year in 2005-06 then again for 5 years 2011-16. All 6 years were good I gotta say, but I lived in small rural towns which is what I like. I could never have lasted working in Seoul - Busan - Changwon etc. In 2005 I came to SE Asia on vacation, fell in love with a girl and the area and moved here after my contract was done. Life is quiet and peaceful.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Liechtenstein on July 28, 2021, 12:28:31 pm
Odd turn of phrase there.
1) Many Koreans DO show appreciation. There still exists a strong bond between Korea and Turkey, for example due to the war.
2) Question- Do you have this same view and expectation of Europeans and their appreciation towards Americans?
3) Interesting that you say "westerners." I mean really, it should be Americans because they did all the heavy lifting. Are somehow the Germans part of this now?
4) Which leads to the next point- Why are YOU so bothered by this? You aren't American, right? Did you have some relative who fought in the small British contingent? Or is there no connection, but somehow you think you deserve appreciation by extension?
5) Should this gratitude be eternal and for all things in every case? Should Koreans prostrate themselves every time a Westerner passes by? What are you getting at here?
6) Since you seem to be advocating some sort of eternal group credit, surely you believe in eternal group blame, yes? Thus it would be fair for someone to scorn you/Westerners for say, slavery and colonialism, yes? There should be an eternal grudge?



And we are off with the apologist in residence, Mr. Hyperbole himself: B.M. oops sorry....DM
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on July 28, 2021, 12:49:47 pm
And we are off with the apologist in residence, Mr. Hyperbole himself: B.M. oops sorry....DM
Care to address the point raised- what you exactly meant with this sentence

Quote
I'm not counting the war, when westerners saved Korea from communism (with pretty much zero appreciation).
What should this "appreciation" look like? How long should it last? Should this apply only to Korea or should it apply to other countries as well? And most importantly- Does "grudge" apply as well? Is it okay for people in say, India, Malaysia, Vietnam, the USA to treat westerners like shit because westerners in the past colonized them/their ancestors and invaded their countries and gunned down their people?
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: L I on July 28, 2021, 01:02:58 pm
Is it good for Koreans to dislike Japanese? For blacks to dislike whites? No. What happened before we were born should have no bearing. We should neither be credited nor punished for the deeds of our ancestors. Those people arenít us. Judge each person individually. Not based on what piece of land they happened to be born on.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: SPQR on July 28, 2021, 01:27:30 pm
Itís pretty accurate. Korean brothels donít want foreigners to be seen going in / going out because it could cause them to lose business. Korean Johns could see the Korean women as ďruinedĒ; foreigners are perceived to be more likely to be carrying STDs. So theyíre not going to receive a warm welcome stepping into a brothel in Korea. Might get turned away. Pretty common from what Iíve heard.

Is this your theory, or have you any experience. It sounds like the former to me.
There are many different venues with many different services and levels of
worker in Korea.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: L I on July 28, 2021, 01:44:38 pm
I read a lot. I read about the experiences of others. You? You have first hand experience in Korean brothels?
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: SPQR on July 28, 2021, 01:47:46 pm
I read a lot. I read about the experiences of others. You? You have first hand experience in Korean brothels?

That's what I figured.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: L I on July 28, 2021, 01:52:08 pm
Um, OK, whatís the real situation on the ground then since you have first hand going into many Korean brothels? Enlighten us.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: grimlock2 on July 28, 2021, 02:14:26 pm
I read a lot. I read about the experiences of others. You? You have first hand experience in Korean brothels?

What's all this reading material on Korean brothels you've got experience of? Can you enlighten us?
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: L I on July 28, 2021, 02:25:52 pm
Was googling for stats. Found a forum of johns discussing their mongering experiences around the world. Read about Korea. Read about Thailand. You have better info?
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on July 28, 2021, 02:34:22 pm
Is it good for Koreans to dislike Japanese? For blacks to dislike whites? No. What happened before we were born should have no bearing. We should neither be credited nor punished for the deeds of our ancestors. Those people arenít us. Judge each person individually. Not based on what piece of land they happened to be born on.
I agree with this. I just think it's odd that someone is bothered by Koreans "not showing Westerners appreciation" and am trying to figure out exactly what he means by that. Usually people who toss this around are at some level, a bit of a bigot. Now, it's not the worst bigotry in the world and everyone has some sort of bigotry in them to some degree. It's not the kind you end a friendship or throw someone out of the club for, but it is the kind that deserves to be examined, and in my view, needled. Not in a really malicious way, but the way a friend deserves when they say something stupid and you get in a good rip on them. So with that in mind, time to rant...

Like what is such a person expecting? Do they think that the second they step off the plane Koreans should be thanking them? For being a westerner? "Hey guy that wasn't even alive during the Korean War and has done f all to help the country, we think you're a superstar because someone with the same complexion/nationality as you fought over here 70 years ago as part of a global struggle to determine hegemony!"

And how long is this supposed to last? Are they just supposed to mindlessly agree with the U.S. and love Westerners unconditionally or something for what, 100 years? 200 years? Until they save a Western country? Is there any way this debt gets canceled? Like if that's true, shouldn't we all be thanking the Russians for saving us from Hitler? I mean, they did pretty much destroy the power of the Nazi army. Should we be showing them constant appreciation? As Americans should we still be kissing French ass all these centuries later because they helped us get our independence?

Question- do you by any chance apply this standard to the people of Europe? Do you go around France and Belgium expecting the locals to show appreciation? Do you shit on Euros and Canadians and Aussies who are ungrateful at the fact that America spent the last 80 years saving the world from one evil after another and ensuring that they all had plenty of cheap energy and didn't all have to build nuclear weapons and spend years in the army? Do you think people from those countries should stfu and bow down to America to show gratitude and never criticize the U.S. whenever it does something stupid? Or is it only the yellow and brown people of the world that should be showing this appreciation?

Like seriously, what gun did you pick up? What fighting did you do? Were you there on the beaches of Normandy or Inchon or the Philippines? Were you sitting in frozen mud in some foxhole that you'd been shitting in for the past 72 hours because if you dared to pop up your head some sniper would blow it off? Were you watching your best friend bleed out on some hospital bed? What fing appreciation are you wanting? This is like some lame version of stolen valor. "Hey, I didn't fight at Omaha Beach, but some guy who looks like me in a photo did, so you all should start listening to me and do as I say and shower me with gifts!" I don't know about you, but I'd be fing embarrassed to pull that or even think it.

And you gotta love how these assholes that go around thinking that other people should worship them (sorry, "appreciate") because of some shit someone from their country or with their same complexion did 70-500 years ago as some sort of group credit are always the first person to bitch, whine and moan the second that they all get blamed for something. "Westerners gave the people of the world the telephone and all this shit, why don't you show us (me) some gratitude? We deserve some credit." "Wait, what's that? Slavery? Colonialism? Jim Crow? Hey, that wasn't me buddy. We're all individuals. That's one of the central beliefs of Western philosophy is that we're individuals and you don't hold someone accountable for something they didn't have anything to do with. That wasn't me. Why should I pay for something that happened in the past? Can't blame me. We've moved on. That's over." In other words, the person is a fing child who wants all of the privileges but none of the responsibility. If you're going to take credit and demand appreciation, then don't whine like bitch when people give you blame and assess collective guilt.

So do I do that?

Of course I do. I fing do it all the time- I constantly shit on Euros who bitch about the U.S. and say that we should have left them to be invaded by Stalin and that shit. Hey you stupid Frenchies, thank America for saving your ass from Hitler and Stalin and shut up about our gun crime and politics. Go fly your stupid shittier version of the airplane and enjoy your crappy French cars and all that smack talk.

But I do think there is a line at touching down Charles de Gaulle Airport and expecting the locals to be "appreciative" because what, my dad was in the Army in the 70s and one grandfather was an aircraft engineer during WWII and the other was in the Merchant Marine in WWI? Do I think America should just bully it's way with the French and the locals have no right to gripe? Should they be throwing America a parade every year? No. Should they be picking up the tab because I'm American? No.

Seriously, some people need to get a clue with this whole "appreciation" stuff.
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: hangook77 on July 28, 2021, 03:08:08 pm
How did this chat go off the rails?  Almost time to check out of this crap and go on vacation. 
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: L I on July 28, 2021, 03:10:19 pm
Where are you going for vacation?
Title: Re: Are you a lifer?
Post by: hangook77 on July 28, 2021, 10:03:11 pm
Where are you going for vacation?

Given the Corona situation, I will be staying home.  I hit Pohang last year.  But this year, I will do nothing special.