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All about South Korea => Life in Korea => Topic started by: Telephone33 on February 09, 2018, 12:32:32 pm

Title: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: Telephone33 on February 09, 2018, 12:32:32 pm
How long do you have to be here to consider yourself a lifer? I.e. what is the 'point of no return'.
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: eggieguffer on February 09, 2018, 01:14:19 pm
Someone who's married to a local, has bought property here, is fluent in Korean and sending their kids to schools here, I'd say.
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: JahMoo on February 09, 2018, 01:24:10 pm
Someone who's married to a local, has bought property here, is fluent in Korean and sending their kids to schools here, I'd say.

What if none of your life goals include marriage, children, or owning property?
 I'd say fluency, visa upgrade, and intent to stay should be enough.
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: SteveBruce on February 09, 2018, 01:27:56 pm
do you mean an immigrant?
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: eggieguffer on February 09, 2018, 01:30:16 pm
Someone who's married to a local, has bought property here, is fluent in Korean and sending their kids to schools here, I'd say.

What if none of your life goals include marriage, children, or owning property?
 I'd say fluency, visa upgrade, and intent to stay should be enough.

No, fair enough I was just saying those things would indicate someone was a lifer, not that lifers all have those things. Marriage to a local and kids is also the primary reason people become lifers here in my experience. Never met a single person who expressed a long term interest
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: JNM on February 09, 2018, 01:53:44 pm
Someone who's married to a local, has bought property here, is fluent in Korean and sending their kids to schools here, I'd say.

What if none of your life goals include marriage, children, or owning property?
 I'd say fluency, visa upgrade, and intent to stay should be enough.

No, fair enough I was just saying those things would indicate someone was a lifer, not that lifers all have those things. Marriage to a local and kids is also the primary reason people become lifers here in my experience. Never met a single person who expressed a long term interest

I do know a single American university professor with an F2.
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: eggieguffer on February 09, 2018, 01:58:46 pm
Someone who's married to a local, has bought property here, is fluent in Korean and sending their kids to schools here, I'd say.

What if none of your life goals include marriage, children, or owning property?
 I'd say fluency, visa upgrade, and intent to stay should be enough.

No, fair enough I was just saying those things would indicate someone was a lifer, not that lifers all have those things. Marriage to a local and kids is also the primary reason people become lifers here in my experience. Never met a single person who expressed a long term interest

I do know a single American university professor with an F2.

What's his story?
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: thunderlips on February 09, 2018, 02:00:48 pm
Anyone here after 10 years, regardless of visa, language skills, marriage, kids.

After ten years you go native.

 (http://j.gifs.com/qxQYm7.gif)
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: JahMoo on February 09, 2018, 02:26:39 pm
Someone who's married to a local, has bought property here, is fluent in Korean and sending their kids to schools here, I'd say.

What if none of your life goals include marriage, children, or owning property?
 I'd say fluency, visa upgrade, and intent to stay should be enough.

No, fair enough I was just saying those things would indicate someone was a lifer, not that lifers all have those things. Marriage to a local and kids is also the primary reason people become lifers here in my experience. Never met a single person who expressed a long term interest

Meee~~~ I've only been here 2 years, and not fluent, and haven't upgraded my visa yet, but I'm verrry close, and upgrading later this year.
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: eggieguffer on February 09, 2018, 02:39:43 pm
Someone who's married to a local, has bought property here, is fluent in Korean and sending their kids to schools here, I'd say.

What if none of your life goals include marriage, children, or owning property?
 I'd say fluency, visa upgrade, and intent to stay should be enough.

No, fair enough I was just saying those things would indicate someone was a lifer, not that lifers all have those things. Marriage to a local and kids is also the primary reason people become lifers here in my experience. Never met a single person who expressed a long term interest

Meee~~~ I've only been here 2 years, and not fluent, and haven't upgraded my visa yet, but I'm verrry close, and upgrading later this year.

So you've already decided you want to spend the rest of your life here?
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: fdny on February 09, 2018, 02:59:13 pm
Is this an entry for "Stupid Thread of the Week"?
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: eggieguffer on February 09, 2018, 03:36:42 pm
Is this an entry for "Stupid Thread of the Week"?

It's been done before, but so has virtually everything else on here
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: JNM on February 09, 2018, 03:42:19 pm
Someone who's married to a local, has bought property here, is fluent in Korean and sending their kids to schools here, I'd say.

What if none of your life goals include marriage, children, or owning property?
 I'd say fluency, visa upgrade, and intent to stay should be enough.

No, fair enough I was just saying those things would indicate someone was a lifer, not that lifers all have those things. Marriage to a local and kids is also the primary reason people become lifers here in my experience. Never met a single person who expressed a long term interest
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: some waygug-in on February 09, 2018, 09:02:47 pm
My first year there, I had only planned on being a year (two max) in Korea, I had been there a couple of weeks and
was discussing my teaching ideas with someone who had been in Korea for a number of years.

To my surprise, he said "you're a lifer" and walked away.  I was a bit shocked at the time and not too sure what
he meant by that. 

After 9 more years and a lot of struggles I left Korea and EFL altogether.   I could see that it just wasn't in the cards

for me unless I wanted to be married to a Korean, but for all the wrong reasons.   

From what I saw of the people who did marry, about half of their relationships ended badly and of those that remained about half of those were not very happy with their lives.

As much as I wanted to become a "lifer", it just wasn't happening.   That "good hagwon" job never materialized

and PS jobs had their own set of "issues".    It seemed like every year things got a little bit worse and not better,

those university jobs that everyone talked about were not all that great.  (except for a select few)

anyway, that's my 2 centavos.

Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: Cyanea on February 09, 2018, 11:25:26 pm
From what I saw of the people who did marry, about half of their relationships ended badly and of those that remained about half of those were not very happy with their lives.

The stayers are forced into playing the Korean game. Seems like they discard a lot of their western values and identity in the process.

I don't believe that adopting this culture necessarily results in happiness. The Koreans seem less than happy with it, so a foreign imitator has little chance.

Quote
That "good hagwon" job never materialized

Is there such a thing? each has its own set of pluses and minuses, but there's no escaping the fact its an exploitative industry.
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: gogators! on February 12, 2018, 10:05:34 am
There are folks working in industries other than education, sometimes for Korean companies and sometimes foreign ones, who stay in Korea for many years, although probably not planning on retiring here. DOD employees, usually ex-military, working on the bases make very good coin and many will stay until they have to retire. They may stay here or retire elsewhere.

There are retired military who have made their homes in Songtan near the Osan base.

There are a few people for whom Korean culture really fits and they find a way to stay, some rocking hanboks, renovating hanooks, and mastering han sik.

To each her own, but the quality of life IMO is limited here and becoming more limited by things such as the air quality and the cost of living. That corruption is so embedded in the culture, along with selfishness, just doesn't make retiring in Korea a very pretty picture.
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: JNM on February 12, 2018, 01:54:18 pm
Someone who's married to a local, has bought property here, is fluent in Korean and sending their kids to schools here, I'd say.

What if none of your life goals include marriage, children, or owning property?
 I'd say fluency, visa upgrade, and intent to stay should be enough.

No, fair enough I was just saying those things would indicate someone was a lifer, not that lifers all have those things. Marriage to a local and kids is also the primary reason people become lifers here in my experience. Never met a single person who expressed a long term interest

I do know a single American university professor with an F2.

What's his story?

E2 -> PHd at a Korean University-> E1 -> counted up the points and realized there was enough -> F2
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: eggieguffer on February 12, 2018, 02:17:24 pm
Someone who's married to a local, has bought property here, is fluent in Korean and sending their kids to schools here, I'd say.

What if none of your life goals include marriage, children, or owning property?
 I'd say fluency, visa upgrade, and intent to stay should be enough.

No, fair enough I was just saying those things would indicate someone was a lifer, not that lifers all have those things. Marriage to a local and kids is also the primary reason people become lifers here in my experience. Never met a single person who expressed a long term interest

I do know a single American university professor with an F2.

What's his story?

E2 -> PHd at a Korean University-> E1 -> counted up the points and realized there was enough -> F2

Great story, but I was kind of wondering more why he wanted to stay in Korea. Was it just the job?
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: JNM on February 12, 2018, 02:20:41 pm
Someone who's married to a local, has bought property here, is fluent in Korean and sending their kids to schools here, I'd say.

What if none of your life goals include marriage, children, or owning property?
 I'd say fluency, visa upgrade, and intent to stay should be enough.

No, fair enough I was just saying those things would indicate someone was a lifer, not that lifers all have those things. Marriage to a local and kids is also the primary reason people become lifers here in my experience. Never met a single person who expressed a long term interest

I do know a single American university professor with an F2.

What's his story?

E2 -> PHd at a Korean University-> E1 -> counted up the points and realized there was enough -> F2

Great story, but I was kind of wondering more why he wanted to stay in Korea. Was it just the job?

I think it is just that doing something else would take some effort. 
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: eggieguffer on February 12, 2018, 02:36:06 pm
Someone who's married to a local, has bought property here, is fluent in Korean and sending their kids to schools here, I'd say.

What if none of your life goals include marriage, children, or owning property?
 I'd say fluency, visa upgrade, and intent to stay should be enough.

No, fair enough I was just saying those things would indicate someone was a lifer, not that lifers all have those things. Marriage to a local and kids is also the primary reason people become lifers here in my experience. Never met a single person who expressed a long term interest

I do know a single American university professor with an F2.

What's his story?

E2 -> PHd at a Korean University-> E1 -> counted up the points and realized there was enough -> F2

Great story, but I was kind of wondering more why he wanted to stay in Korea. Was it just the job?

I think it is just that doing something else would take some effort.

Yeah, I know people like that. They usually talk about leaving all the time. Though they don't usually bother getting citizenship
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: dippedinblush on February 12, 2018, 08:58:56 pm
Someone who has lost all hope!+
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: dippedinblush on February 12, 2018, 09:37:53 pm
I am saying this because I have lived here for over ten years (with a break), and it's not a healthy life for anyone living here for an extended period of time. (myself included). 
I think living in Korea (for me) is like observing an aquarium.  You can dip your hands in the top if you wish and get some nibbles (but more often than not, get your hand eaten off), and you can look at what's going on inside, but you can't really jump in and swim with the fish.  You will always be an observer....
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: Cyanea on February 13, 2018, 12:14:23 am
I am saying this because I have lived here for over ten years (with a break), and it's not a healthy life for anyone living here for an extended period of time. (myself included). 
I think living in Korea (for me) is like observing an aquarium.  You can dip your hands in the top if you wish and get some nibbles (but more often than not, get your hand eaten off), and you can look at what's going on inside, but you can't really jump in and swim with the fish.  You will always be an observer....

+1
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: thunderlips on February 13, 2018, 08:11:29 am
I am saying this because I have lived here for over ten years (with a break), and it's not a healthy life for anyone living here for an extended period of time. (myself included). 
I think living in Korea (for me) is like observing an aquarium.  You can dip your hands in the top if you wish and get some nibbles (but more often than not, get your hand eaten off), and you can look at what's going on inside, but you can't really jump in and swim with the fish.  You will always be an observer....

Well said.

Obligatory sarcasm in 3, 2, 1

(http://media.giphy.com/media/IxEWbDmCDadyM/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: L I on July 29, 2021, 09:58:52 am
Someone who's married to a local, has bought property here, is fluent in Korean and sending their kids to schools here, I'd say.

But most people who have been here forever and will be here forever are nowhere near fluent. Not even remotely close. In fact, the TOPIK test would classify their level as ďbeginnerĒ. Why? Korean is a hard f - ing language and most adults canít pick up languages as well as youngsters. Their brain has changed. A lot of Koreans look down on long term Westerns who arenít fluent (which is almost all), but they should really cut them some slack. Theyíre underestimating what a gargantuan undertaking it is.
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: SPQR on July 29, 2021, 10:17:35 am
Are we really regurgitating boring posts from 2018 so some people can see their
"writing" on the internet?
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: SPQR on July 29, 2021, 10:18:50 am

Is this an entry for "Stupid Thread of the Week"?


This guy nailed it.
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: L I on July 29, 2021, 11:01:19 am
ďThis guyĒ is you. 

Same writing style. Same info given.

Last fdny post: March 08, 2018.

First SPQR post: March 09, 2018.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8e/2e/21/8e2e2184ab1f622d00b0bb1d674a9ceb.jpg)
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: SPQR on July 29, 2021, 11:28:43 am
Way to go, Sport! You deserve another merit badge for that one.
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: KimchiNinja on July 31, 2021, 08:22:01 am
Someone who's married to a local, has bought property here, is fluent in Korean and sending their kids to schools here, I'd say.

Sounds like a good definition. If youíre not invested in Korean society, then youíre a passer thru.

Iíd also add something on cultural adaptation. Notice that lifers in America adapt to Western philosophy even though itís really weird for them (coming from China, Korea, India, etc). Thatís when we call them a real American, otherwise we donít really refer to them as real Americans (e.g. people living in Chinatown who refuse to learn the local language and ways). Right? Similarly, Iíd say if youíve been here 10yrs but still havenít adapted to Korean philosophy/thinking, then youíre living in an ďexpat bubble,Ē still a passer thru.
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: VanIslander on August 01, 2021, 02:27:25 am
How long do you have to be here to consider yourself a lifer? I.e. what is the 'point of no return'.
There is a guy i met in a bar in 2017 who said before the night was over that this was his "last stop". And he would never leave. He's 15+ years younger than me and i was a bit surprised. But he says this is as good as it gets and has no fall-back plan. (He raves about the "brothels". I don't inquire.) That was 4 years ago. I saw him again not long ago. He forgot my name (for the third time - maybe a few too many beers he's pounding). He seems as settled as always. He's been in this small town for 10 years. And i guess it'll be where he'll remain until he has just remains.
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: MayorHaggar on August 01, 2021, 02:47:22 pm
It's a major organ in the left side of your abdomen which excretes bile and filters poisons out of your body.
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: JNM on August 01, 2021, 02:55:11 pm
I think there are two different types of lifers in Korea; those who (attempt?) to assimilate and those who donít.

Why are you looking down at those who donít? Korea is obviously offering them something the next best option doesnít!

Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: VanIslander on August 02, 2021, 09:10:21 am
I think there are two different types of lifers in Korea; those who (attempt?) to assimilate and those who donít.
New members of the Borg vs. expats.

 Yeah. That sounds right.
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: Liechtenstein on August 04, 2021, 08:44:29 am

 Iíd say if youíve been here 10yrs but still havenít adapted to Korean philosophy/thinking, then youíre living in an ďexpat bubble,Ē still a passer thru.


This is just plain nuts. What you are in effect saying is this:

"If you haven't drank the Kool-Aid, you're not one of us."

pish posh load of tosh
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: WhenInRome... on August 04, 2021, 11:57:49 am
Sounds like a good definition. If youíre not invested in Korean society, then youíre a passer thru.

Iíd also add something on cultural adaptation. Notice that lifers in America adapt to Western philosophy even though itís really weird for them (coming from China, Korea, India, etc). Thatís when we call them a real American, otherwise we donít really refer to them as real Americans (e.g. people living in Chinatown who refuse to learn the local language and ways). Right? Similarly, Iíd say if youíve been here 10yrs but still havenít adapted to Korean philosophy/thinking, then youíre living in an ďexpat bubble,Ē still a passer thru.

I eat kimchi and say "Japan baaad."

Have I culturally adapted??
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on August 04, 2021, 12:45:54 pm
I say more than a few expats are going to end up like "immigrant daddy" back home. Angry, working a mediocre job even though they feel they should be some high-up, yelling at their kids not to watch or listen to anything in the local language. Spending time with other immigrant daddies at some immigrant dive bar and snarling about the country they now live in. Kid playing today's music and daddy comes storming in and saying how they need to listen to music from back home that's 60 years old. Every other dinner conversation being about how much the country they live in sucks compared to "The Old Country".  Completely disconnected from society, current events and trends in their country, kid's friends saying "Your dad is always so angry...He's scary...Why was he so rude to us?" etc. etc.

Word to the wise: You don't want to be immigrant daddy.
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: Lazio on August 06, 2021, 07:09:03 pm

Word to the wise: You don't want to be immigrant daddy.


Better yet: You most definitely don't want to be DeMartino!
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: thunderlips on August 06, 2021, 08:21:31 pm
I say more than a few expats are going to end up like "immigrant daddy" back home. Angry, working a mediocre job even though they feel they should be some high-up, yelling at their kids not to watch or listen to anything in the local language. Spending time with other immigrant daddies at some immigrant dive bar and snarling about the country they now live in. Kid playing today's music and daddy comes storming in and saying how they need to listen to music from back home that's 60 years old. Every other dinner conversation being about how much the country they live in sucks compared to "The Old Country".  Completely disconnected from society, current events and trends in their country, kid's friends saying "Your dad is always so angry...He's scary...Why was he so rude to us?" etc. etc.

Word to the wise: You don't want to be immigrant daddy.


Wow this post is really revealing. Thanks for sharing de martini.
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: chimp on August 07, 2021, 05:12:36 pm
A lifer is a person who intends or expects to live here for their entire life. Thread closed.

If you're trying to explore what kind of person that is, they are typically people from other Asian countries.

If you're actually meaning English speaking residents who live here  I don't know.

Mod edit: deleted blatant trolling.
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: Kurt Sorensen on August 07, 2021, 08:40:30 pm
I say more than a few expats are going to end up like "immigrant daddy" back home. Angry, working a mediocre job even though they feel they should be some high-up, yelling at their kids not to watch or listen to anything in the local language. Spending time with other immigrant daddies at some immigrant dive bar and snarling about the country they now live in. Kid playing today's music and daddy comes storming in and saying how they need to listen to music from back home that's 60 years old. Every other dinner conversation being about how much the country they live in sucks compared to "The Old Country".  Completely disconnected from society, current events and trends in their country, kid's friends saying "Your dad is always so angry...He's scary...Why was he so rude to us?" etc. etc.

Word to the wise: You don't want to be immigrant daddy.


Ahh! Marty I'm an immigrant daddy. I live here in Korea, and are never going back.
Mind you, my two girls are NZ citizens. I'm also 60 and I do love classic rock. But, I don't go to dive bars, and I rarely shit on Korea, unless it's deserving.

My kids are wonderful. (Their Korean husbands are cool guys), and my grandchild is the loveliest person on Earth.
I work for myself, and have done for many years. Half the neighbouhood were always at our house when my kids were at school, and I don't think they saw me as a monster.  Considerind many still drop in to say hello, or have a coffee says that myself and my wife aren't too bad a people.

Anyway, maybe this is not what you are talking about.
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: grimlock2 on August 07, 2021, 09:15:13 pm
I don't think he'd be interested in your true-life story to be honest. He already has his nicely constructed negative idea of a non Korean expat father in his mind, that makes him feel more superior/secure. 
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: Kurt Sorensen on August 07, 2021, 09:36:00 pm
Yeah, you could be right grimlock2. But for a reason I'm giving Marti the benefit of the doubt. I seem to be misunderstanding him lately, and maybe this is not what he means.
Let's see what he says or doesn't.
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: grimlock2 on August 07, 2021, 09:53:39 pm
Yeah, you could be right grimlock2. But for a reason I'm giving Marti the benefit of the doubt. I seem to be misunderstanding him lately, and maybe this is not what he means.
Let's see what he says or doesn't.

It's ironic really as this is just the kind of thing he's always attacking posters like Mayorhaggar for saying. Substitute 'immigrant daddy'  for Korean Ajosshi and you have the same thing.
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: 745sticky on August 09, 2021, 08:00:55 am
Yeah, you could be right grimlock2. But for a reason I'm giving Marti the benefit of the doubt. I seem to be misunderstanding him lately, and maybe this is not what he means.
Let's see what he says or doesn't.

i'm pretty sure what he means by "immigrant daddy" isn't literally just immigrants who are fathers, but a particular stereotype/subset of them. (sort of like the korean ajosshi grimlock mentioned)
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on August 09, 2021, 10:04:30 am
i'm pretty sure what he means by "immigrant daddy" isn't literally just immigrants who are fathers, but a particular stereotype/subset of them. (sort of like the korean ajosshi grimlock mentioned)
This. It isn't immigrants who are fathers, its the subset that move to another country and refuse to adapt. The ones that often have good degrees back home but end up working mediocre jobs AND are bitter about it AND constantly spend their time trashing their new home AND insist on their kids watching (insert their nationality here) TV/music/movies/etc.

It's ironic really as this is just the kind of thing he's always attacking posters like Mayorhaggar for saying. Substitute 'immigrant daddy'  for Korean Ajosshi and you have the same thing.
"immigrant daddy" doesn't have a specific ethnicity. It applies to immigrant daddies around the world, from all backgrounds, and in any country.

Yeah, you could be right grimlock2. But for a reason I'm giving Marti the benefit of the doubt. I seem to be misunderstanding him lately, and maybe this is not what he means.
Let's see what he says or doesn't.
Thanks, yeah, it definitely wasn't meant to be all immigrant dads and I did a poor job of clarifying and that certainly isn't you by all accounts. It's a common subset that fall into that cycle. Extremely disconnected from society, snarling, "speak (insert language from back home- and not just for educational purposes and practice)", etc.

Compare that to "Just Dad" who has connections to the community, be it small as part of some club or big as part of some substantial organization, could be poor or rich but happy to be there, tries to adapt as best he can, thinks its great if his kids are into TV/music/films/books from their new country because that's where there future is (or at least potentially/partially is), etc.

But also there is an issue- When we think about "good immigrants" back home, we think about those who tried their best to make a good go of it. I mean above all, we hope they buy into "The American Dream" or whatever else. Well, if you're going to raise a family in Korea or Ethiopia or wherever, you probably should buy-in at least somewhat. I'm not saying Ori-Nara and all that, but at least "Hey this is a great country and God forbid there's a disaster or something like that, I'd be there". Celebrate some of the local heroes, holidays, and other hullabaloo, etc. No one is going to be perfect, but at least we hopefully will not be bitter immigrant daddy.
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: grimlock2 on August 09, 2021, 11:13:13 am
Quote
This. It isn't immigrants who are fathers, its the subset that move to another country and refuse to adapt. The ones that often have good degrees back home but end up working mediocre jobs AND are bitter about it AND constantly spend their time trashing their new home AND insist on their kids watching (insert their nationality here) TV/music/movies/etc.     

You're not fooling anyone, by talking about immigrants with degrees ending up in mediocre jobs you're latching onto the common English teacher trope and are having a pop at Westerners. 
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on August 09, 2021, 01:56:56 pm
You're not fooling anyone, by talking about immigrants with degrees ending up in mediocre jobs you're latching onto the common English teacher trope and are having a pop at Westerners. 
Your hallucination has been noted.

Its a common trope for immigrants everywhere. The guy who was an engineer but is now a handyman. Some are bitter. Some are thankful just to have a job and be in a new country.
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: Savant on August 09, 2021, 09:47:20 pm
Your hallucination has been noted.

Its a common trope for immigrants everywhere. The guy who was an engineer but is now a handyman. Some are bitter. Some are thankful just to have a job and be in a new country.

Hasn't there been Korean master degree and PHD qualified candidates all vying for the lowest level public sector position for road sweeping? Some Koreans are just thankful for a job in their own country.
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: Liechtenstein on August 10, 2021, 08:11:39 am
You do not have to adapt to your new country's ways or norms to live a happy, contented, productive  life there. There are many reasons people leave their home country. Most are economic I would assume, but you might be on the run from the mafia.

I don't think it's possible, for me for certain, to say "lifer". Things change.

I like where I am and have a very nice life. I plan to never leave. But if I won the lottery I'd be outta here asap and living on a boat in the Caribbean. 

So, am I a lifer? Yeah...unless things change.

Have I become one of the locals? Nope. Never gonna happen. 
Title: Re: What is the definition of a lifer?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on August 10, 2021, 12:47:15 pm
You do not have to adapt to your new country's ways or norms to live a happy, contented, productive  life there. There are many reasons people leave their home country. Most are economic I would assume, but you might be on the run from the mafia.
Have I become one of the locals? Nope. Never gonna happen. 
You don't have to, I agree. But if you're bitter, complaining, isolated AND non-adapting, then that's where the trope enters. Also, usually the people who are happy but somewhat non-adapting do tend to have things like local friends and some level of ties to the community because they're generally optimistic and friendly people. They're often teaching (insert cultural thing X) to the locals or a visiting professor or historian or craftsman or whatever. They're reaction to locals is "Hey let me share this great new stuff you might enjoy" vs. "Why aren't you people acting like how people in my country act and enjoying the things they do?"

Two people could be doing the exact same thing- Playing music from their country of origin and have it be completely different. One doing it to share and get people feeling happy, the other as an act of defiance or anger against the country they now live in.