RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0

[JVPrice]

1) The ridiculousness of the grading system here. I get bitched at for not giving full marks to every student. Even the students who just sit there and refuse to say anything. My higher level, more interested students will have full conversations with me because they finish the required set of questions in 30 seconds, but they want to talk to me about other stuff. But I also have students (mainly low to mid level) who just plain refuse to do anything for the test, even if they participate during class. I've even had a couple just not show up. And somehow even those students got full marks on their speaking tests. Like, what's the point of actually giving the test if they're just going to get full marks anyway?

I will agree with this. Though my teachers don't get upset when I give a low score, the minimum score I'm allowed to give is usually in the 40-60% range, which totally destroys the point of an exam. Students will try to turn the test into a joke, knowing it won't affect them that much. But if everyone passes, doesn't that mean graduation isn't all that special? Just like a lot of things here, it's destroyed by the appearance culture.

[tadpole511]

. One was really excited to show me a picture he had drawn on the back of his sheet--a picture of me decapitated.

And that's when you go to the 부장님 or VP and tell them that the student threatened you. You have a literal piece of physical evidence. That's super messed up, even by the lenient standards at most schools here, and would absolutely not fly.

Yeah, I would've, except the picture wasn't labelled. It was a stick figure with no real identifying marks. The kid just pointed at it and said (in Korean, of course) "Teacher, this is you." My coteacher at that school was god awful, I honestly had no idea who the head teacher was, and the VP didn't like foreigners, so there wasn't really anyone I could go to. That school was messed up. When I left, I ended up reporting my coteacher and making various complaints about things that happened to the NET coordinator at my MOE/POE. I don't think anything was done about it though.

[#basedcowboyshirt]

. One was really excited to show me a picture he had drawn on the back of his sheet--a picture of me decapitated.

And that's when you go to the 부장님 or VP and tell them that the student threatened you. You have a literal piece of physical evidence. That's super messed up, even by the lenient standards at most schools here, and would absolutely not fly.

Yeah, I would've, except the picture wasn't labelled. It was a stick figure with no real identifying marks. The kid just pointed at it and said (in Korean, of course) "Teacher, this is you." My coteacher at that school was god awful, I honestly had no idea who the head teacher was, and the VP didn't like foreigners, so there wasn't really anyone I could go to. That school was messed up. When I left, I ended up reporting my coteacher and making various complaints about things that happened to the NET coordinator at my MOE/POE. I don't think anything was done about it though.

Ugh. That's unfortunate. But still, it would've been your word against the word of a student, and it's unlikely they would've believed a student over a teacher.

[tadpole511]

. One was really excited to show me a picture he had drawn on the back of his sheet--a picture of me decapitated.

And that's when you go to the 부장님 or VP and tell them that the student threatened you. You have a literal piece of physical evidence. That's super messed up, even by the lenient standards at most schools here, and would absolutely not fly.

Yeah, I would've, except the picture wasn't labelled. It was a stick figure with no real identifying marks. The kid just pointed at it and said (in Korean, of course) "Teacher, this is you." My coteacher at that school was god awful, I honestly had no idea who the head teacher was, and the VP didn't like foreigners, so there wasn't really anyone I could go to. That school was messed up. When I left, I ended up reporting my coteacher and making various complaints about things that happened to the NET coordinator at my MOE/POE. I don't think anything was done about it though.

Ugh. That's unfortunate. But still, it would've been your word against the word of a student, and it's unlikely they would've believed a student over a teacher.

Eh, you'd think that, but this is also the school where a class went to the principal complaining that I never let them talk in class, and I got in trouble. Even after I explained that they had plenty of chances to talk, they just didn't want to speak English. They wanted to have free time with their friends.

Like I said, the school was messed up. Basically a notch below Bingsu's school/coteacher. I was never scammed out of money or anything, but they seemed to take a special joy in making my life as difficult as possible.

[#basedcowboyshirt]

. One was really excited to show me a picture he had drawn on the back of his sheet--a picture of me decapitated.

And that's when you go to the 부장님 or VP and tell them that the student threatened you. You have a literal piece of physical evidence. That's super messed up, even by the lenient standards at most schools here, and would absolutely not fly.

Yeah, I would've, except the picture wasn't labelled. It was a stick figure with no real identifying marks. The kid just pointed at it and said (in Korean, of course) "Teacher, this is you." My coteacher at that school was god awful, I honestly had no idea who the head teacher was, and the VP didn't like foreigners, so there wasn't really anyone I could go to. That school was messed up. When I left, I ended up reporting my coteacher and making various complaints about things that happened to the NET coordinator at my MOE/POE. I don't think anything was done about it though.

Ugh. That's unfortunate. But still, it would've been your word against the word of a student, and it's unlikely they would've believed a student over a teacher.

Eh, you'd think that, but this is also the school where a class went to the principal complaining that I never let them talk in class, and I got in trouble. Even after I explained that they had plenty of chances to talk, they just didn't want to speak English. They wanted to have free time with their friends.

Like I said, the school was messed up. Basically a notch below Bingsu's school/coteacher. I was never scammed out of money or anything, but they seemed to take a special joy in making my life as difficult as possible.

Blah. Sorry to hear that. I worked in a miserable school for a few years myself, where a couple coteachers actively tried to get the VP and P to veto my renewal. It's not fun.

[yirj17]

In the subway underground there's a foreigner (backpacker?) selling photos of himself 

Really? lol. Has he sold any?

No idea.  Didn't stick around to see 

[Life Improvement]

This is probably the most lenient I've been on speaking tests since coming to Korea, and I'm still getting bitched at (BY TEACHERS) for making the grades too low.

I get bitched at for not giving full marks to every student. Even the students who just sit there and refuse to say anything.

I've even had a couple just not show up. And somehow even those students got full marks on their speaking tests.

Korean teachers submit speaking test scores to the office of education. If grades are low they need to write an explanation of why. Which is work they probably don't want to do. Plus it could make them look bad. Meaning a system with good intentions is inadvertently incentivizing lying, sadly. 

[Bingsu]

. One was really excited to show me a picture he had drawn on the back of his sheet--a picture of me decapitated.

And that's when you go to the 부장님 or VP and tell them that the student threatened you. You have a literal piece of physical evidence. That's super messed up, even by the lenient standards at most schools here, and would absolutely not fly.

Yeah, I would've, except the picture wasn't labelled. It was a stick figure with no real identifying marks. The kid just pointed at it and said (in Korean, of course) "Teacher, this is you." My coteacher at that school was god awful, I honestly had no idea who the head teacher was, and the VP didn't like foreigners, so there wasn't really anyone I could go to. That school was messed up. When I left, I ended up reporting my coteacher and making various complaints about things that happened to the NET coordinator at my MOE/POE. I don't think anything was done about it though.

Ugh. That's unfortunate. But still, it would've been your word against the word of a student, and it's unlikely they would've believed a student over a teacher.

Eh, you'd think that, but this is also the school where a class went to the principal complaining that I never let them talk in class, and I got in trouble. Even after I explained that they had plenty of chances to talk, they just didn't want to speak English. They wanted to have free time with their friends.

Like I said, the school was messed up. Basically a notch below Bingsu's school/coteacher. I was never scammed out of money or anything, but they seemed to take a special joy in making my life as difficult as possible.

*cackles maniacally*

1) I love that I am a standard now, it gives me a decent amount of joy. Second to hearing how everyone else is loving their school, I genuinely enjoy how they're treated like family and live vicariously through them.

2) Do people believe that schools take a teacher's word over a student? I will never in my life believe that I have any amount of power over anything in my environment. Anything. The only saving grace I had was another student who was on my side. Twice in a row they believed a kid over me, just luckily one liked me enough to tell the truth. Seems like it's not as uncommon as I had hoped lmao

[Sasstiel]

Student: "Did you know that everyone hates you and your classes?"

Me: "Um..... no. They usually seem pretty happy."

Student: "Well, they hate you. If you want them to like a class then don't teach it."

I know I'm not here to make friends with my students, but that hurt. I think it's because I teach a very academic subject that they aren't used to..... and I also don't play games in class (it's high school). I'm not sure if I need to change my teaching style or not. I want my students to like me, but I'd rather they learn something than like me, if that makes sense.

This isn't really a rant. It's more a confused/hurt thing, because all of my kids are super friendly in class and I don't know what I've done wrong. 

[JVPrice]

Student: "Did you know that everyone hates you and your classes?"

Me: "Um..... no. They usually seem pretty happy."

Student: "Well, they hate you. If you want them to like a class then don't teach it."

I know I'm not here to make friends with my students, but that hurt. I think it's because I teach a very academic subject that they aren't used to..... and I also don't play games in class (it's high school). I'm not sure if I need to change my teaching style or not. I want my students to like me, but I'd rather they learn something than like me, if that makes sense.

This isn't really a rant. It's more a confused/hurt thing, because all of my kids are super friendly in class and I don't know what I've done wrong. 

I would say don't take it to heart, especially if it's coming from just one student. Surely they aren't accountable for all your students, right?

Student: "Well, they hate you. If you want them to like a class then don't teach it."

This doesn't even make sense, unless they're trying to tell you to not be a teacher.

[SeoulAlone]

Student: "Did you know that everyone hates you and your classes?"

Me: "Um..... no. They usually seem pretty happy."

Student: "Well, they hate you. If you want them to like a class then don't teach it."

I know I'm not here to make friends with my students, but that hurt. I think it's because I teach a very academic subject that they aren't used to..... and I also don't play games in class (it's high school). I'm not sure if I need to change my teaching style or not. I want my students to like me, but I'd rather they learn something than like me, if that makes sense.

This isn't really a rant. It's more a confused/hurt thing, because all of my kids are super friendly in class and I don't know what I've done wrong. 

First off, don't take what ONE student says as fact.  They may have told you that because THEY don't like you, or just to be a little sh*tass. 

Secondly, if you want to know, ask the class when they come in.  Just ask straight out... "[insert kids name here] informed me that everyone in the class hates me and my class."  Call um out!  If all the students agree, which I doubt they will, just say "I'm sorry you don't me or my class, but I'm doing this for your benefit, not mine."  "You'll thank me when you're older."

And if they do hate your class and you, make them wish they had never got up and came to school.  Slap so much homework on them, that they'll never sleep, strict no fun, no smiling teacher.  Be brutal. 

And thirdly, just like most kids, they're smart@ss sh*theads [especially high school] and it's their job to push your buttons.  Don't take what kids say personally. 

[Dave Stepz]

Student: "Did you know that everyone hates you and your classes?"

Me: "Um..... no. They usually seem pretty happy."

Student: "Well, they hate you. If you want them to like a class then don't teach it."

I know I'm not here to make friends with my students, but that hurt. I think it's because I teach a very academic subject that they aren't used to..... and I also don't play games in class (it's high school). I'm not sure if I need to change my teaching style or not. I want my students to like me, but I'd rather they learn something than like me, if that makes sense.

This isn't really a rant. It's more a confused/hurt thing, because all of my kids are super friendly in class and I don't know what I've done wrong. 

You teach in a high school, right?  If you were in a hagwon, then I'd say you'd be limited in how you deal with it, but in this case, I'd say forget it.  One student saying that, doesn't mean anything.  Just remember his face!!!  I'd hazard a guess that such student would have the gall to say that to another teacher but in less brutal fashion. 

I don't play games in high school.  I use ways to make the material more interesting without resorting to 'fun time'.  If the students don't like it, then that's not may fault.  When they had the teacher evaluations last year, the Chemistry teacher got 1.3 out of 5, and he was really hurt by it and kind of made an emotional speech to the students about his evaluation.  Sometimes, some subjects can't be made interesting by teachers so they suffer as a consequence.  Out of interest, what 'academic' subject are you teaching?

Don't dwell on it too much...

[Sasstiel]

Thanks for the reassurance, y'all. I'll just monitor them for now (it's almost finals so they're really just doing self-study at the moment). Maybe I'll use the two weeks after exams to figure out what's up and what they'd like to see more or less of. And definitely have a fun day at some point.

I teach what would be considered AP psychology in the States, with a side dose of logic. And yes, I have the appropriate visa lol. I think they're frustrated with the level of thought and problem solving involved. It's not a "memorize this and get a perfect score" class, and my class is a also a portion of their final grade. Plus.... they see me three times a week, which is a lot for them AND me.

I really like my students, so their input matters. I'll try not to dwell on it, but also make a plan to see what's going on.

I basically interpreted the "if you want them to like a class, then don't teach it" as the student telling me no matter what I do, the kids still won't like me, so it isn't worth my effort to try to change anything.

[Mr.DeMartino]

First off, don't take what ONE student says as fact.  They may have told you that because THEY don't like you, or just to be a little sh*tass. 

Secondly, if you want to know, ask the class when they come in.  Just ask straight out... "[insert kids name here] informed me that everyone in the class hates me and my class."  Call um out!  If all the students agree, which I doubt they will, just say "I'm sorry you don't me or my class, but I'm doing this for your benefit, not mine."  "You'll thank me when you're older."

And if they do hate your class and you, make them wish they had never got up and came to school.  Slap so much homework on them, that they'll never sleep, strict no fun, no smiling teacher.  Be brutal. 

And thirdly, just like most kids, they're smart@ss sh*theads [especially high school] and it's their job to push your buttons.  Don't take what kids say personally.

This.

Bring it up at the end of class.
"Student Kim said he doesn't like the class. He didn't tell me why. My guess is, I've been too soft. Here's some extra homework. Thank you Student Kim. Everyone tell him thank you."

That will nip that nonsense in the bud. Let Student Kim be the first out the door at the end of class and give him a 5 second head start before you dismiss everyone else. What happens after that? Whatever.

*1 caveat- if the student mentioning this is a "good" student, then it might be good to actually listen to what they have to say and maybe they have some good advice. In that case the student might have some legit criticism that should be addressed, something like "It's hard to understand you" or "we go through topics too quickly or too slowly" "We want more speaking/reading/writing/etc." or maybe you legitimately are giving too much homework or something.

It's the fine balance of leadership. Sometimes you have to bring out the stick, but other times you have to know when to listen.

[donovan]

This is when I miss Pecan.

[#basedcowboyshirt]

First off, don't take what ONE student says as fact.  They may have told you that because THEY don't like you, or just to be a little sh*tass. 

Secondly, if you want to know, ask the class when they come in.  Just ask straight out... "[insert kids name here] informed me that everyone in the class hates me and my class."  Call um out!  If all the students agree, which I doubt they will, just say "I'm sorry you don't me or my class, but I'm doing this for your benefit, not mine."  "You'll thank me when you're older."

And if they do hate your class and you, make them wish they had never got up and came to school.  Slap so much homework on them, that they'll never sleep, strict no fun, no smiling teacher.  Be brutal. 

And thirdly, just like most kids, they're smart@ss sh*theads [especially high school] and it's their job to push your buttons.  Don't take what kids say personally.

This.

Bring it up at the end of class.
"Student Kim said he doesn't like the class. He didn't tell me why. My guess is, I've been too soft. Here's some extra homework. Thank you Student Kim. Everyone tell him thank you."

That will nip that nonsense in the bud. Let Student Kim be the first out the door at the end of class and give him a 5 second head start before you dismiss everyone else. What happens after that? Whatever.

*1 caveat- if the student mentioning this is a "good" student, then it might be good to actually listen to what they have to say and maybe they have some good advice. In that case the student might have some legit criticism that should be addressed, something like "It's hard to understand you" or "we go through topics too quickly or too slowly" "We want more speaking/reading/writing/etc." or maybe you legitimately are giving too much homework or something.

It's the fine balance of leadership. Sometimes you have to bring out the stick, but other times you have to know when to listen.

Accurate.

Also, my initial glib post was going to be 'Reply with "It's okay. I hate it, too." But that is not meant to be taken as a serious reply to waygook.org user Sasstiel's post, as that is obviously an upsetting thing to have said to you.

Waygook.org user Mr. DeMartino's advice is very good.

[#basedcowboyshirt]

This is when I miss Pecan.

I also miss waygook.org user pecan.

[tadpole511]

First off, don't take what ONE student says as fact.  They may have told you that because THEY don't like you, or just to be a little sh*tass. 

Secondly, if you want to know, ask the class when they come in.  Just ask straight out... "[insert kids name here] informed me that everyone in the class hates me and my class."  Call um out!  If all the students agree, which I doubt they will, just say "I'm sorry you don't me or my class, but I'm doing this for your benefit, not mine."  "You'll thank me when you're older."

And if they do hate your class and you, make them wish they had never got up and came to school.  Slap so much homework on them, that they'll never sleep, strict no fun, no smiling teacher.  Be brutal. 

And thirdly, just like most kids, they're smart@ss sh*theads [especially high school] and it's their job to push your buttons.  Don't take what kids say personally.

This.

Bring it up at the end of class.
"Student Kim said he doesn't like the class. He didn't tell me why. My guess is, I've been too soft. Here's some extra homework. Thank you Student Kim. Everyone tell him thank you."

That will nip that nonsense in the bud. Let Student Kim be the first out the door at the end of class and give him a 5 second head start before you dismiss everyone else. What happens after that? Whatever.

*1 caveat- if the student mentioning this is a "good" student, then it might be good to actually listen to what they have to say and maybe they have some good advice. In that case the student might have some legit criticism that should be addressed, something like "It's hard to understand you" or "we go through topics too quickly or too slowly" "We want more speaking/reading/writing/etc." or maybe you legitimately are giving too much homework or something.

It's the fine balance of leadership. Sometimes you have to bring out the stick, but other times you have to know when to listen.

Yeah. This is part of why I make a point of having a "check-in" survey for my students once a semester. A quick anonymous survey (in Korean) so they can give any feedback they have, good or bad, and let me know if they don't understand a chapter. If something comes up relatively often, I'll adjust. If it's just one kid complaining about not playing enough games, they can get over it. But if there's a lot of "There's too much homework" or "You talk too fast" or "I don't understand this chapter", I know what to change and what to focus on during reviews. But I also tell them beforehand that they we will read all the feedback, but me and my coteacher will decide what, if any, changes we make.

I do written feedback because 1) they can write in Korean, and I can translate at my own speed, and 2) a lot of students are more comfortable giving written anonymous feedback rather than speaking out in class, especially if part of that feedback is admitting they have trouble understanding something.

[Datasapien]

Yeh was just about to suggest handing out a survey and pinpointing any issues (if there are any .. could just be that one kid is a knob!).

[Chinguetti]

This is how I imagine you saying that:

Toss in a little more crazy eyes, and that's basically my doppelganger.

Why do you hate speaking tests so much?? The way I see it, it's a free week of not having to teach. At least at my schools, my teachers give me the rest of the period off once the testing for that class is finished.

First, they're monotonous as hell, and most of the students' speaking abilities are horrible. I only get a handful of students every semester who really try and give me more than the standard, imperfectly-memorized answers.

Second, even though I don't have to teach, it's not free time. I have almost 30 students in each class, so the speaking tests take up the entire class period. I would much rather teach.

Then you can toss in the added irritation of dealing with people (both students and teachers alike) trying to pressure me into giving grades that aren't deserved.

Overall, this is a mentally draining time for me due to both boredom and frustration. I think the speaking tests are a big waste of everyone's time because they don't actually effectively evaluate language abilities as they currently are, and too many people cheat the system anyway.