August 20, 2018, 04:48:11 AM


Author Topic: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0  (Read 1059626 times)

Online Savant

  • Hero of Waygookistan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1359
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #7520 on: February 21, 2018, 10:54:43 AM »
Steels. The good little Korean drone worker.

Offline CJ

  • Super Waygook
  • ***
  • Posts: 465
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #7521 on: February 21, 2018, 11:13:05 AM »
Anyone knows that contracts in this country are more of a guide; a framework in which certain things can be negotiated, rather than something that has to be followed to the tee. Of course, salary isn't flexible, but, given certain situations, a little leeway could be given.

If it's vacation time, and the NET has nothing to do, a logical and sensible thing to do would allow the NET to "work from home" or something along those lines. This has nothing to do with digging ditches or hard labour; it's basic, common sense.

Some folks such as myself have had to return from abroad to deskwarm for less than a week and then be given our remaining vacation. This is incredibly stupid. Even if I wanted to stay in this school, that would have been to deal breaker there. There is no reason at all that they have to follow the contract so closely. Some schools have principals or VPs that are a little more forgiving; a little smarter and less anal retentive. A friend had his 24 days off in a row which is how it should be.


Offline Mr.DeMartino

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4923
  • Gender: Male
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #7522 on: February 21, 2018, 12:04:41 PM »
Anyone knows that contracts in this country are more of a guide; a framework in which certain things can be negotiated, rather than something that has to be followed to the tee. Of course, salary isn't flexible, but, given certain situations, a little leeway could be given.

If it's vacation time, and the NET has nothing to do, a logical and sensible thing to do would allow the NET to "work from home" or something along those lines. This has nothing to do with digging ditches or hard labour; it's basic, common sense.

Some folks such as myself have had to return from abroad to deskwarm for less than a week and then be given our remaining vacation. This is incredibly stupid. Even if I wanted to stay in this school, that would have been to deal breaker there. There is no reason at all that they have to follow the contract so closely. Some schools have principals or VPs that are a little more forgiving; a little smarter and less anal retentive. A friend had his 24 days off in a row which is how it should be.

No one forced you to sign the contract. The contract said X number of days working. Now at the time you signed, if they said 10 of your working days would involve you coming in, orfering Chinese food and watching Netflix, would you have refused to sign? Would you rather be doing English camp?

As far as flexibility, if you point to the contract and howl about coming in on a Saturday two times a year or staying late a few times, don't complain when you're forced to deskwarm!!!

Offline Mister Tim

  • Hero of Waygookistan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1223
  • Gender: Male
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #7523 on: February 21, 2018, 12:11:17 PM »
Dude, just let people rant and vent. That's what this thread is for. If you want to bring your apologetics into specific threads people start to discuss these things, fine, fair play. For Pete's sake, though, try to leave your nonsense out of this thread. Nobody likes it, and you aren't changing anybody's minds.

And yes, before you point it out, I know you think ranting and venting don't actually help, and have some studies you like to link to back that up. I don't care. Nobody cares.

Offline kobayashi

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 948
  • Gender: Male
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #7524 on: February 21, 2018, 12:13:40 PM »
Seems a few of us are in the same annoying position. Leaving for good then? What do you have planned for life after Korea if you don't mind me asking?

i got a job teaching a content subject at an international high school in another country. i don't have a teaching certificate, but have a Master's degree in what i'm going to be teaching, and have previous experience teaching it.

the pay is only a little bit more but i was earning 2.8 mil here in Korea, so already on the high end. real chance of career advancement. 15-18 teaching hours per week, fully-paid summer and winter vacation + national holidays - about 3 months of vacation total. no deskwarming or summer and winter camps (i asked). 2-bedroom apartment, fully furnished and paid for.

EFL in korea is really going  downhill, even at the university level. teaching content subjects is where it's going to be at in the near-to-long-term future at the university level, imo anyway. get an MA in a content subject and a teaching certificate and a ton of great jobs in all sorts of different countries will open themselves up to you.

either that or get an MA TESOL and actually do research and publish - something that a lot of these university 'professors' seem to be averse to - and get a job as an actual professor, not just an instructor, which is what the vast majority of these 'professors' actually are.

Offline Mr.DeMartino

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4923
  • Gender: Male
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #7525 on: February 21, 2018, 12:25:14 PM »
Dude, just let people rant and vent. That's what this thread is for. If you want to bring your apologetics into specific threads people start to discuss these things, fine, fair play. For Pete's sake, though, try to leave your nonsense out of this thread. Nobody likes it, and you aren't changing anybody's minds.

And yes, before you point it out, I know you think ranting and venting don't actually help, and have some studies you like to link to back that up. I don't care. Nobody cares.

I'm ranting and venting at their rants and vents.  :laugh:

It really is a truly incomprehensible stance that deserves a good rant and vent.

Complaining about getting paid money to sit around and do nothing. Wow.

Offline Dave Stepz

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2486
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #7526 on: February 21, 2018, 12:26:44 PM »
Seems a few of us are in the same annoying position. Leaving for good then? What do you have planned for life after Korea if you don't mind me asking?

i got a job teaching a content subject at an international high school in another country. i don't have a teaching certificate, but have a Master's degree in what i'm going to be teaching, and have previous experience teaching it.

the pay is only a little bit more but i was earning 2.8 mil here in Korea, so already on the high end. real chance of career advancement. 15-18 teaching hours per week, fully-paid summer and winter vacation + national holidays - about 3 months of vacation total. no deskwarming or summer and winter camps (i asked). 2-bedroom apartment, fully furnished and paid for.

EFL in korea is really going  downhill, even at the university level. teaching content subjects is where it's going to be at in the near-to-long-term future at the university level, imo anyway. get an MA in a content subject and a teaching certificate and a ton of great jobs in all sorts of different countries will open themselves up to you.

either that or get an MA TESOL and actually do research and publish - something that a lot of these university 'professors' seem to be averse to - and get a job as an actual professor, not just an instructor, which is what the vast majority of these 'professors' actually are.

Sounds good!  Good luck with it!!   ;D

Offline Kayos

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 733
  • Gender: Male
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #7527 on: February 21, 2018, 12:39:45 PM »
Me: *Spends all of the winter break preparing lessons for the new semester*

My Co-Teacher, one week before the semester starts: There will be a new curriculum, and a new textbook!

 :huh: :undecided: :rolleyes:

Don't you just love being kept in the loop?!  :P

I was lucky and got told about new textbooks, but they don't have them at the school yet, so I can't start planning. :'( I'm pretty bored deskwarming, however, my home is really close to the school, so I've been having extended lunchbreaks - which involves video games at home. I can do that from work, but my home pc is much better than my PoS laptop. :P
My head teacher (who is the highest person around) doesn't mind either. He is really bored and is just watching TV shows on his PC at work haha (He even asked me for recommendations on English shows he can watch)

Offline CJ

  • Super Waygook
  • ***
  • Posts: 465
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #7528 on: February 21, 2018, 12:50:05 PM »
Anyone knows that contracts in this country are more of a guide; a framework in which certain things can be negotiated, rather than something that has to be followed to the tee. Of course, salary isn't flexible, but, given certain situations, a little leeway could be given.

If it's vacation time, and the NET has nothing to do, a logical and sensible thing to do would allow the NET to "work from home" or something along those lines. This has nothing to do with digging ditches or hard labour; it's basic, common sense.

Some folks such as myself have had to return from abroad to deskwarm for less than a week and then be given our remaining vacation. This is incredibly stupid. Even if I wanted to stay in this school, that would have been to deal breaker there. There is no reason at all that they have to follow the contract so closely. Some schools have principals or VPs that are a little more forgiving; a little smarter and less anal retentive. A friend had his 24 days off in a row which is how it should be.

No one forced you to sign the contract. The contract said X number of days working. Now at the time you signed, if they said 10 of your working days would involve you coming in, orfering Chinese food and watching Netflix, would you have refused to sign? Would you rather be doing English camp?

As far as flexibility, if you point to the contract and howl about coming in on a Saturday two times a year or staying late a few times, don't complain when you're forced to deskwarm!!!

Mate, how did I know you're going to say "no one forced you to sign the contract"? That's NOT THE POINT!  I think everyone in the school knows the one week the Ss come back is basically a week of nothing, so why make the NET, who has flown to another country and does so only once a year, come back for 4 days to do nothing? Only a complete retard would make the NET return for 4 days and then have the remaining 10 days off.

For the record, I would have ZERO issue with coming in on two weekends during the year. No issue at all because guess what? I'm flexible!

Offline kobayashi

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 948
  • Gender: Male
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #7529 on: February 21, 2018, 01:18:53 PM »
No one forced you to sign the contract. The contract said X number of days working. Now at the time you signed, if they said 10 of your working days would involve you coming in, orfering Chinese food and watching Netflix, would you have refused to sign? Would you rather be doing English camp?

As far as flexibility, if you point to the contract and howl about coming in on a Saturday two times a year or staying late a few times, don't complain when you're forced to deskwarm!!!

if at the time that you signed, they told you that you would be literally the only teacher in the school while all the other teachers were off on vacation - despite the fact that there is actually a category on NEIS allowing you to 'work from home' - would you still have signed the contract?

if they told you that the Korean contract English teachers, who do exactly the same job as you - but at a worse level of performance than you, and who are often less qualified than you - get double the amount of 조튀, double the amount of sick leave, and double the amount of vacation - would you still have signed the contract?

and things like the above are exactly the reason why most people choose to 'nope' out of there after 1-2 years. schools here just have a way of destroying any goodwill the NET might have towards them when they first start out. the entire concept of positive reinforcement just seems to have completely passed south korea by.

Offline Mr.DeMartino

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4923
  • Gender: Male
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #7530 on: February 21, 2018, 01:28:52 PM »
Mate, how did I know you're going to say "no one forced you to sign the contract"? That's NOT THE POINT!  I think everyone in the school knows the one week the Ss come back is basically a week of nothing, so why make the NET, who has flown to another country and does so only once a year, come back for 4 days to do nothing?

Because of government regulations. If you use government money and hire employees, and one of those employees gets hurt while not on the job or on vacation, that's an issue for insurance. It's also something that auditors could look at. Then you get the issue of favorable and unequal treatment amongst different NETs. Now some schools don't care and are willing to accept those risks, but you cannot be upset because your school doesn't.

No one forces you to fly every year, that's your choice. It was your choice to leave home. If you don't want to tour the world, don't join the Navy. Don't expect other people to go out of their way just to make the choice you made yourself any easier. Obviously it would be nice if they did, but that is to be appreciated, not expected.

You can't be angry at people for not doing nice "bonus" things. That's an entitled mindset and one that has unreasonable expectations.

Quote
For the record, I would have ZERO issue with coming in on two weekends during the year. No issue at all because guess what? I'm flexible!

That's how I got the time off. Unfortunately, prior to your hiring, the school or district might have had some moron who screamed about the contract and now you're held to the contract. Or maybe you had a chill principal and he let his NET stay at home or whatever, but some other NET complained about it and now he can't do that anymore because it's unfair.

What looks "stupid" or "retarded" to you, might not actually be those things. You can't just look at things from your own point of view.

Offline Mr.DeMartino

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4923
  • Gender: Male
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #7531 on: February 21, 2018, 01:29:22 PM »
if at the time that you signed, they told you that you would be literally the only teacher in the school while all the other teachers were off on vacation - despite the fact that there is actually a category on NEIS allowing you to 'work from home' - would you still have signed the contract?

Am I required to attend staff meetings? Do I have to have a teaching certificate? Do I have to pay union dues? Am I part of a collective bargaining agreement?

No? Then why would I give crap. That's like a security guard complaining that they have to come in while the office workers are gone. You're hired for different purposes under different terms. As an outside contract worker they have different procedures for hiring you. The terms of our contract are X number of hours per day. X days per term. Whether someone else is there or not is irrelevant.

It takes a lot for me to start comparing myself to others and whining about how things are unequal. In most cases, they usually aren't and the person whining and moaning isn't considering the entire picture and has an inaccurate view of themselves and who they are. You obviously ask questions and make sure you don't get screwed over, but I'm not about to inadvertently narc someone out for getting a few days at home instead of deskwarming, just because I'm jealous. I'm smarter than that and I have people's back.

Quote
if they told you that the Korean contract English teachers, who do exactly the same job as you - but at a worse level of performance than you, and who are often less qualified than you - get double the amount of 조튀, double the amount of sick leave, and double the amount of vacation - would you still have signed the contract?

Do they get a rent stipend/furnished apartment? Are they under the same salary system? Do they have to attend staff meetings?

Quote
and things like the above are exactly the reason why most people choose to 'nope' out of there after 1-2 years. schools here just have a way of destroying any goodwill the NET might have towards them when they first start out. the entire concept of positive reinforcement just seems to have completely passed south korea by.

Sounds to me like you have a pretty selfish and incomplete view of things. The fact that you can only see things in one direction is probably why you've had such a negative experience. It's not my fault that when you made this argument you didn't even stop to consider the obligations they have which you do not. Sounds like more than a few concepts passed you by as well.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 01:33:34 PM by Mr.DeMartino »

Offline bigfishlittlefish

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 114
  • Gender: Male
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #7532 on: February 21, 2018, 01:36:11 PM »
The fact that you can only see things in one direction

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Classic pot Martin calling Kettle black again

Offline Mr.DeMartino

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4923
  • Gender: Male
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #7533 on: February 21, 2018, 01:38:23 PM »
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Classic pot Martin calling Kettle black again

Whatever, I know their view and I've had the same thoughts myself at one point in my life. Took a few years away from Koreans and some maturing in my own life to get a more balanced perspective on things.

I used to be a lot more on the worker's view of things. Then one day I was made general manager. Then everything changed.

I used to think cops were pigs. Then one day I was put on the closing shift and carried out the cash deposit.

Things change. Your view expands.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 01:39:59 PM by Mr.DeMartino »

Online Savant

  • Hero of Waygookistan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1359
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #7534 on: February 21, 2018, 01:49:08 PM »
Steels has totally derailed the ranting thread.

Offline CJ

  • Super Waygook
  • ***
  • Posts: 465
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #7535 on: February 21, 2018, 01:57:12 PM »
Steelrails.

My co-workers were horrified that I said I am not only leaving this school, but Korea in the near future. If that horror was in the slightest bit genuine, you would think that they would have my best interest at heart by being just a tiny bit flexible in allowing me to have my full 24 days off and to not have to come in for 4 useless days. This is not a feeling of entitlement. This is just showing the tiniest fraction of goodwill.

You've used government regulations as the reason why I had to return for 4 days. These regulations didn't seem to affect a friend who had 24 days off in a row.  They didn't seem to be in effect when I was here on a previous sojourn, and my school even tagged on spring vacation onto my holidays so I'd get a month off. My point is, that is a weak argument given that other schools don't make their teachers come back and split their vacation.

My take on it is this; ignorance. Most Koreans have never been in our situations, and, as a result, have no idea what it's like to be abroad for any length of time. ( I know: no one is forcing me to be abroad - I beat you to it, sorry) They are ignorant at my school. Pure and simple. They don't have the necessary mental facullties say to themselves: "Oh,  Mr CJ only gets to see his family once a year, maybe he doesn't need to come in and desk warm for 4 days. Let let him have his full 24 days off as that's the right thing to do. Perhaps he'll stay as he's OK."


Offline kobayashi

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 948
  • Gender: Male
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #7536 on: February 21, 2018, 02:35:45 PM »
this is hilarious. demartino is obviously at school, deskwarming, bored out of his mind, which is why he's able to write entire essays about how we should be licking the salty ajeosshi balls of our amazing korean overlords for blessing us with the opportunity of teaching rude, spoiled, entitled kids that don't give a crap, with coteachers who actively try to sabotage us, at schools that actively try to make our lives as difficult as possible every step of the way.

Offline Mr.DeMartino

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4923
  • Gender: Male
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #7537 on: February 21, 2018, 03:46:17 PM »
My co-workers were horrified that I said I am not only leaving this school, but Korea in the near future. If that horror was in the slightest bit genuine, you would think that they would have my best interest at heart by being just a tiny bit flexible in allowing me to have my full 24 days off and to not have to come in for 4 useless days. This is not a feeling of entitlement. This is just showing the tiniest fraction of goodwill.

Are you entitled not to come in on those days? No. So why do you have the expectation that they should do this for you?

Quote
You've used government regulations as the reason why I had to return for 4 days. These regulations didn't seem to affect a friend who had 24 days off in a row.  They didn't seem to be in effect when I was here on a previous sojourn, and my school even tagged on spring vacation onto my holidays so I'd get a month off. My point is, that is a weak argument given that other schools don't make their teachers come back and split their vacation.

Yes, other schools are willing to accept the risk. That is to be appreciated, not expected.

Quote
My take on it is this; ignorance. Most Koreans have never been in our situations, and, as a result, have no idea what it's like to be abroad for any length of time. ( I know: no one is forcing me to be abroad - I beat you to it, sorry) They are ignorant at my school. Pure and simple. They don't have the necessary mental facullties say to themselves: "Oh,  Mr CJ only gets to see his family once a year, maybe he doesn't need to come in and desk warm for 4 days. Let let him have his full 24 days off as that's the right thing to do. Perhaps he'll stay as he's OK."

Lots of Koreans have spent time abroad.

Now, if it's your allotted vacation time in your contract, you have every right to it. If it's not, you don't. It's really that simple. Be happy you aren't teaching camp. You could have a total ass of a principal who would make sure you had something to do during those 4 days.

Clearly you've never worked a job in your life where your boss made sure you were working every minute of your shift.

So speaking of ignorance of situations, you obviously have been lucky enough not to work such jobs. If you had, you would kick up your heels at the thought of getting paid money to sit around and do nothing.

Like seriously, can you imagine complaining about that to somebody working some job where they have to do constant back breaking labor for hourly pay? People around the world would kill to have a job where they sat at a desk watching Netflix and made decent money.

Offline Mr.DeMartino

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4923
  • Gender: Male
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #7538 on: February 21, 2018, 03:48:56 PM »
this is hilarious. demartino is obviously at school, deskwarming, bored out of his mind, which is why he's able to write entire essays about how we should be licking the salty ajeosshi balls of our amazing korean overlords for blessing us with the opportunity of teaching rude, spoiled, entitled kids that don't give a crap, with coteachers who actively try to sabotage us, at schools that actively try to make our lives as difficult as possible every step of the way.

Not at school. I don't teach at schools anymore. Moved on up.  8)

Calls kids rude, spoiled, entitled. Complains about having to follow his contract and come in and watch Netflix for 8 hours a day as part of his pay.


Offline CJ

  • Super Waygook
  • ***
  • Posts: 465
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #7539 on: February 22, 2018, 08:56:17 AM »
My co-workers were horrified that I said I am not only leaving this school, but Korea in the near future. If that horror was in the slightest bit genuine, you would think that they would have my best interest at heart by being just a tiny bit flexible in allowing me to have my full 24 days off and to not have to come in for 4 useless days. This is not a feeling of entitlement. This is just showing the tiniest fraction of goodwill.

Are you entitled not to come in on those days? No. So why do you have the expectation that they should do this for you?

Quote
You've used government regulations as the reason why I had to return for 4 days. These regulations didn't seem to affect a friend who had 24 days off in a row.  They didn't seem to be in effect when I was here on a previous sojourn, and my school even tagged on spring vacation onto my holidays so I'd get a month off. My point is, that is a weak argument given that other schools don't make their teachers come back and split their vacation.

Yes, other schools are willing to accept the risk. That is to be appreciated, not expected.

Quote
My take on it is this; ignorance. Most Koreans have never been in our situations, and, as a result, have no idea what it's like to be abroad for any length of time. ( I know: no one is forcing me to be abroad - I beat you to it, sorry) They are ignorant at my school. Pure and simple. They don't have the necessary mental facullties say to themselves: "Oh,  Mr CJ only gets to see his family once a year, maybe he doesn't need to come in and desk warm for 4 days. Let let him have his full 24 days off as that's the right thing to do. Perhaps he'll stay as he's OK."

Lots of Koreans have spent time abroad.

Now, if it's your allotted vacation time in your contract, you have every right to it. If it's not, you don't. It's really that simple. Be happy you aren't teaching camp. You could have a total ass of a principal who would make sure you had something to do during those 4 days.

Clearly you've never worked a job in your life where your boss made sure you were working every minute of your shift.

So speaking of ignorance of situations, you obviously have been lucky enough not to work such jobs. If you had, you would kick up your heels at the thought of getting paid money to sit around and do nothing.

Like seriously, can you imagine complaining about that to somebody working some job where they have to do constant back breaking labor for hourly pay? People around the world would kill to have a job where they sat at a desk watching Netflix and made decent money.

What's the fascination with doing back breaking work? Are we labourers now?

FYI, I took a year off from study to pick fruit, work in a factory and do all manner of hard shit to fund my travels abroad. Man, who do you think you're talking to here? Some brat who's never done a thing in his life?

As usual, you're playing the devil's advocate. I won't be drawn into it. There is no justification for dragging someone from abroad back to Korea to desk warm for 4 days and then release the NET for another 10 days.