December 15, 2018, 07:59:30 PM


Author Topic: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0  (Read 1223513 times)

Offline JahMoo

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 639
  • Gender: Female
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #680 on: September 01, 2016, 01:12:55 PM »
I can accept foreigners won't have perfect pronunciation but if you're in a coffee shop then the Korean staffs' ears should be listening out for relevant words.  You're not going to go into a coffee shop and ask for a washing machine.  Just listen.

I was in a restaurant once and I called the waitress over and said "물좀주세요".  She looked at me like I had two heads.  But think...I'm eating in a restaurant so she should already be honing in on specific words.  Even if my pronunciation was terrible, she must have heard the 'm' sound and then the following vowel sound.  So I either want water or radish.  She just carried on staring at me, open-mouthed.

Anyway, I'm flogging a dead horse I know.  I'm making no real attempts to learn Korean these days so I can't exactly moan and complain  :sad:

+1
I definitely get the frustration though. There are times when the thing on the menu is literally in English, and yet somehow it's my pronunciation that's strange. It's definitely a valid point. I just wanted to suggest that their POV might be valid too, at least half the time.

Offline CO2

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3946
  • Gender: Male
  • Dharma Initiative
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #681 on: September 01, 2016, 01:24:05 PM »
I can accept foreigners won't have perfect pronunciation but if you're in a coffee shop then the Korean staffs' ears should be listening out for relevant words.  You're not going to go into a coffee shop and ask for a washing machine.  Just listen.

I was in a restaurant once and I called the waitress over and said "물좀주세요".  She looked at me like I had two heads.  But think...I'm eating in a restaurant so she should already be honing in on specific words.  Even if my pronunciation was terrible, she must have heard the 'm' sound and then the following vowel sound.  So I either want water or radish.  She just carried on staring at me, open-mouthed.

Anyway, I'm flogging a dead horse I know.  I'm making no real attempts to learn Korean these days so I can't exactly moan and complain  :sad:

+1
I definitely get the frustration though. There are times when the thing on the menu is literally in English, and yet somehow it's my pronunciation that's strange. It's definitely a valid point. I just wanted to suggest that their POV might be valid too, at least half the time.
My favourite thing is when a menu will say 해물탕/해물전 and the English portion will say Haemultang/Haemuljeon

Uhhhhhhhhhh, thanks?
Yes, to dance beneath the diamond sky
With one hand waving free

Online kyndo

  • Moderator LVL 1
  • The Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 4674
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #682 on: September 01, 2016, 01:50:55 PM »
,,,
I suspect that, all things being equal, heavily accented English might be easier to understand than an equally poor Korean... but not by much.


But my point is that when you mispronounce English, you aren't accidentally saying completely different English words most of the time. And that adds an extra obstacle to things. Plus English-speakers trying to learn Korean is a relatively new thing here, so almost every Korean you come into contact with is going to be that "monolingual redneck". (I'm not trying to call all Koreans rednecks, this is just for comparison).
I don't really disagree with you, but I don't think people realise how finicky English really is: sure, many words have distinct sounds (especially longer ones), but there are so many different parts of English that can really throw off understanding. Word order is a biggie: English relies heavily on correct word order in order for the desired meaning to come through. Most other languages are much more forgiving (Greek being the prime example).
English also has incredibly messy conjugations that if done incorrectly can elicit those wtm reactions.

Anyway, like I've already said: I agree that English might be somewhat more forgiving than Korean, but the vast majority of a native English speaker's ability to understand accented/mangled English is just that they are so much more accustomed to it.  :undecided:
« Last Edit: September 01, 2016, 01:53:04 PM by kyndo »

Offline cjszk

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 893
  • Gender: Male
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #683 on: September 01, 2016, 02:07:27 PM »
I can accept foreigners won't have perfect pronunciation but if you're in a coffee shop then the Korean staffs' ears should be listening out for relevant words.  You're not going to go into a coffee shop and ask for a washing machine.  Just listen.

I was in a restaurant once and I called the waitress over and said "물좀주세요".  She looked at me like I had two heads.  But think...I'm eating in a restaurant so she should already be honing in on specific words.  Even if my pronunciation was terrible, she must have heard the 'm' sound and then the following vowel sound.  So I either want water or radish.  She just carried on staring at me, open-mouthed.

Anyway, I'm flogging a dead horse I know.  I'm making no real attempts to learn Korean these days so I can't exactly moan and complain  :sad:

+1
I definitely get the frustration though. There are times when the thing on the menu is literally in English, and yet somehow it's my pronunciation that's strange. It's definitely a valid point. I just wanted to suggest that their POV might be valid too, at least half the time.
My favourite thing is when a menu will say 해물탕/해물전 and the English portion will say Haemultang/Haemuljeon

Uhhhhhhhhhh, thanks?

Lol... I really don't appreciate having to explain to many different teachers that Korean in alphabet form is actually not accurate. I had one co-teacher that insisted that there was some specific way to use alphabet to make Korean student's names sound more accurate. It took her an entire month of struggling to finally get it- there isn't.

Ordering food at a restaurant where there is Korean words in an English menu... I actually have never seen this happen yet, probably because I don't really hang out with foreigners (losing my roots...).

English Speaker: Haemuljeon jusayoh (헤이물지온 주세이요우!)
Korean Speaker: ???????

Offline JahMoo

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 639
  • Gender: Female
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #684 on: September 01, 2016, 02:23:01 PM »
,,,
I suspect that, all things being equal, heavily accented English might be easier to understand than an equally poor Korean... but not by much.


But my point is that when you mispronounce English, you aren't accidentally saying completely different English words most of the time. And that adds an extra obstacle to things. Plus English-speakers trying to learn Korean is a relatively new thing here, so almost every Korean you come into contact with is going to be that "monolingual redneck". (I'm not trying to call all Koreans rednecks, this is just for comparison).
I don't really disagree with you, but I don't think people realise how finicky English really is: sure, many words have distinct sounds (especially longer ones), but there are so many different parts of English that can really throw off understanding. Word order is a biggie: English relies heavily on correct word order in order for the desired meaning to come through. Most other languages are much more forgiving (Greek being the prime example).
English also has incredibly messy conjugations that if done incorrectly can elicit those wtm reactions.

Anyway, like I've already said: I agree that English might be somewhat more forgiving than Korean, but the vast majority of a native English speaker's ability to understand accented/mangled English is just that they are so much more accustomed to it.  :undecided:

So we agree.

Offline yirgacheffe

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 584
  • Gender: Female
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #685 on: September 01, 2016, 02:46:18 PM »
If you mispronounce "28" it can end up being a curse word. Fortunately I've an older brother who studied Korean and taught me the distinction.

It's actually 18

28?

Like he gives 2 f*cks

 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Apparently 28 is worse, but I can't remember why.

Because 2 is worse than 1  :laugh: :laugh:

Anyway. My bad. I'm used to saying 28 since that's my Korean age so I rarely say 18. But like this guy said:

It can also be heard in 38, 78, 118, 1,818... :laugh:

Guess it just depends on how many you give  :wink:

I'm too braindead to join in on this big conversation about Koreans and their treatment of foreigners (which I agree can get pretty condescending), but I can comment on the 18 vs 28 thing lol

Basically 18 just sounds like 'f.uck' and 28 sounds like 'you f.ucker' which in English would probably make more sense if you think of it in the context of 'shut up, you motherf.ucker.' By the way, mods, I'm not trying to get around the filter here. Just joining the conversation about pronunciation. :angel:

Offline moonbrie

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 657
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #686 on: September 01, 2016, 03:28:36 PM »
I like speaking Korean with taxi drivers the best. Every taxi driver I've had a conversation with in Korean was very kind, tried to understand me, and would rephrase themselves when I didn't understand something. Maybe because they have more daily contact with foreigners than other Koreans? It's sad that "normal" Koreans can't have that level of sympathy for non-native speakers. Even "I'm very sorry, I can't understand" is better than the Korean Stare!

The other day I talked to an old lady at the bus stop. We just talked about the weather, where I was going, etc. If only more Koreans were like that learning the language while here wouldn't be so impossible.

Offline JeffGang

  • Adventurer
  • *
  • Posts: 25
  • Gender: Male
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #687 on: September 01, 2016, 09:58:44 PM »
I like taxi drivers too. And even though I've been here for about 8 years, and I was put off on studying Korean, I am taking another crack at it. Actually, I am writing some Korean lessons that are supposed to follow an easy way to learn it.

Here is why I quit trying before...
http://iexperiencekorea.com/blog/Gangneung/2018WinterOlympics/language-issues-immigrants-korea/

Here is the latest Korean lesson I wrote...
http://iexperiencekorea.com/blog/Gangneung/2018WinterOlympics/korean-lesson-7-three-new-variations/

Offline FreddyPrinceWilliam

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 241
  • Gender: Male
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #688 on: September 01, 2016, 10:49:22 PM »
Hoooooly shit I had a terrible first day at the job. Let me just vent everything here. Some background info about me first. I'm a 20 year old Korean american student that moved to Korea recently from US. I got hired by a Hagwon nearby and as I said, it was my first day teaching today. I can understand korean little bit but I can't speak korean well.

First class was pop song class and I admit I wasn't very well prepared but the students couldn't understand the song at all (Skyfall by Adele. I chose a slow song on purpose). I wrote the lyrics on the board and tried to explain but half the class was me trying to explain english words in korean and hand motions. I doubt they learned anything from this class at all. They looked at me like this the whole time  :huh:. This was elementary school level

Second class I was a bit more prepared so I did okay I think. This time I was with middle school students. The song was Happy by Pharrell Williams and I made a fill in the blank in lyrics work sheet. The song was too fast for them so after letting them listen to the song 2 times and filling as much as they can, I just went over the answers. I had some time left so I decided to discuss the meaning of the song but they didn't understand that at all.

Third class was reading class (middle school). I liked this much more since it's more like following the instructions rather than coming up with your own stuff. Anyways, I just read out loud and told them to repeat after me. I asked them questions about the story after reading a paragraph or two. It was mostly one student answering all the questions though  :lipsrsealed:. I told her to let the other students answer but they had more trouble answering my questions. At the end of the class I told them to summarize what we read so far to me but they didn't understand that at all. I don't think they understood the story much

What I observed was that they have pretty good reading comprehension but they have pretty bad listening comprehension and speaking skills. I suspect this is due to Korea focusing on vocabulary and reading and neglect listening and speaking. This is hard for me since I have to speak in English. How can I teach anything when they don't even understand what I'm saying. I felt so ****** incompetent and I'm tired as ****. Any tips would be appreciated.  :sad:

WELCOME TO KOREA! LOLOLOLOL

Just push through it. Lower your expectations and don't expect to make huge changes.

The system in place here for learning English is broken. 

Offline Kayos

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 947
  • Gender: Male
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #689 on: September 02, 2016, 07:56:03 AM »
Hoooooly ... snip

WELCOME TO KOREA! LOLOLOLOL

Just push through it. Lower your expectations and don't expect to make huge changes.

The system in place here for learning English is broken.

I've realized they only study for exams and don't really pay much attention to something that's not exam related. I know I shouldn't expect to make huge changes but I really hate feeling incompetent so I at least want to be able to communicate and explain things to them.  :undecided:

The exam stuff is true. I've been asked to add some questions based on my classes to the end of year exam, so before every lesson now, I scare them by saying: something that we do today, might be on the exam. - I get a little more attention and trying, but not much. :P
I also told them that the exam, and it being marked, will be done entirely by me. The day I told them that, I had 99% of my students attention haha. (The English teacher goes along with that too haha).

Offline PMDL123

  • Newgookin
  • Posts: 2
  • Gender: Female
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #690 on: September 02, 2016, 08:27:52 AM »
So I moved to my apartment yesterday in Habuk (Yangsan). After picking me up from the office of education and we headed to Yangsan, he kept telling me that he has two daughters at home and his wife is angry so he had to go home. I didn't get to the Immigration Bureau or the bank. Luckily I had told him I should buy groceries so he took me there. He didn't look too happy because he was such in a rush to go home. I realized after my co-teacher had left that my apartment did not have bedsheets, pillows or blankets. Thankfully my scarves were big enough to be used as my shower towel, my bedsheet and blanket. I didn't have wifi in my apartment so I walked to Paris Baquette and met an elderly Russian man whom I tried to speak to but he just cut me out. I am terribly lonely and although I know it's only the first few days here, I'm freaking out about how bad this could be. I just expected to be better taken cared of instead of just being tossed to figure everything out by myself. :(

Anyone in Habuk or has ever been in Habuk?

Offline Lurch

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 728
  • Gender: Male
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #691 on: September 02, 2016, 08:30:40 AM »
@PMDL123 Never heard of the place. Looks like you're close to Busan though. Go there.

Offline krissyboo75

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 638
  • Gender: Female
  • Please understand our unique culture~
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #692 on: September 02, 2016, 08:51:52 AM »
So I moved to my apartment yesterday in Habuk (Yangsan). After picking me up from the office of education and we headed to Yangsan, he kept telling me that he has two daughters at home and his wife is angry so he had to go home. I didn't get to the Immigration Bureau or the bank. Luckily I had told him I should buy groceries so he took me there. He didn't look too happy because he was such in a rush to go home. I realized after my co-teacher had left that my apartment did not have bedsheets, pillows or blankets. Thankfully my scarves were big enough to be used as my shower towel, my bedsheet and blanket. I didn't have wifi in my apartment so I walked to Paris Baquette and met an elderly Russian man whom I tried to speak to but he just cut me out. I am terribly lonely and although I know it's only the first few days here, I'm freaking out about how bad this could be. I just expected to be better taken cared of instead of just being tossed to figure everything out by myself. :(

Anyone in Habuk or has ever been in Habuk?
Here is a facebook page for the foreigner group in Busan. Yangsan is pretty close to Busan so there may be some folk in the group you can hang out with and also get information from.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/446252345467530/

Offline Kayos

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 947
  • Gender: Male
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #693 on: September 02, 2016, 09:51:22 AM »
So I moved to my apartment yesterday in Habuk (Yangsan). After picking me up from the office of education and we headed to Yangsan, he kept telling me that he has two daughters at home and his wife is angry so he had to go home. I didn't get to the Immigration Bureau or the bank. Luckily I had told him I should buy groceries so he took me there. He didn't look too happy because he was such in a rush to go home. I realized after my co-teacher had left that my apartment did not have bedsheets, pillows or blankets. Thankfully my scarves were big enough to be used as my shower towel, my bedsheet and blanket. I didn't have wifi in my apartment so I walked to Paris Baquette and met an elderly Russian man whom I tried to speak to but he just cut me out. I am terribly lonely and although I know it's only the first few days here, I'm freaking out about how bad this could be. I just expected to be better taken cared of instead of just being tossed to figure everything out by myself. :(

Anyone in Habuk or has ever been in Habuk?

Looks like you are very close to where I am as well. I haven't been to your area yet though. I hope your experience improves. I had a shitty experience similar to yours last year when I went to Japan, my futon hadn't been delivered and the house was empty (no plates, blankets, utensils, etc.). I had to use 4 towels as a matress and blankets for 3 days - I barely slept; also, the Eikaiwa had a rule that: if you yawn in class, you are fired.

Offline defenderoftherealm

  • Super Waygook
  • ***
  • Posts: 416
  • Gender: Male
  • Unleash the gangster.
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #694 on: September 02, 2016, 12:55:07 PM »
So I moved to my apartment yesterday in Habuk (Yangsan). After picking me up from the office of education and we headed to Yangsan, he kept telling me that he has two daughters at home and his wife is angry so he had to go home. I didn't get to the Immigration Bureau or the bank. Luckily I had told him I should buy groceries so he took me there. He didn't look too happy because he was such in a rush to go home. I realized after my co-teacher had left that my apartment did not have bedsheets, pillows or blankets. Thankfully my scarves were big enough to be used as my shower towel, my bedsheet and blanket. I didn't have wifi in my apartment so I walked to Paris Baquette and met an elderly Russian man whom I tried to speak to but he just cut me out. I am terribly lonely and although I know it's only the first few days here, I'm freaking out about how bad this could be. I just expected to be better taken cared of instead of just being tossed to figure everything out by myself. :(

Anyone in Habuk or has ever been in Habuk?

Looks like you are very close to where I am as well. I haven't been to your area yet though. I hope your experience improves. I had a shitty experience similar to yours last year when I went to Japan, my futon hadn't been delivered and the house was empty (no plates, blankets, utensils, etc.). I had to use 4 towels as a matress and blankets for 3 days - I barely slept; also, the Eikaiwa had a rule that: if you yawn in class, you are fired.

What eikaiwa was this?

Offline moonbrie

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 657
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #695 on: September 02, 2016, 01:35:02 PM »
Hahahahahahahah so you may remember I posted the other day about trying to iron out some scheduling stuff with the head english teacher. Today I was teaching with a different teacher and she was like wait what this wasn't the plan and I was like oh I talked to you yesterday, the head english teacher told me to do this and she was like oh... really...

So then she went to talk to the head english teacher and SURPRISE she said something completely different than what she said to me, and now everything is really complicated and we have some strange plan to try to finish two chapters in THREE class periods together and I told her (not the head teacher, the other one) okay, we can have this plan, but you HAVE to make sure EVERYONE teaching the second graders is on the same page because with 21 unique classes I cannot keep track of which are doing this convoluted schedule, so everyone has to do the convoluted schedule. I said I really thought we should have a meeting to make sure everyone is on the same page, and she said "I don't think the other English teachers want to have a meeting" I literally told her THAT IS THEIR JOB but she just shrugged her shoulders. The very first thing I said when I came in teaching middle school with 5 coteachers was "We have to all be on the same page because with 5 people I can't take the time to plan with you all individually."

Anyways she said that she would tell everyone about this new revised weird plan but somehow I doubt that is going to happen. I know someone is going to end up angry at me and I'm going to get in trouble somehow. The plan that she came up with in the first place is overly optimistic about timing (her plans always are). And she always takes a long time explaining things (not that that's bad but when speed is an issue....). I already know it's not going to work out. And why on earth is it more important to finish 2 chapters in 3 weeks than it is to make sure, I dunno, the students properly understand the course content. I know it might feel weird but I promise it's possible to do half of the second chapter before midterms and half after!

I just want to cry.

Offline CO2

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3946
  • Gender: Male
  • Dharma Initiative
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #696 on: September 02, 2016, 01:41:32 PM »
I just want to cry.

Now you cry, Cornelius.
Yes, to dance beneath the diamond sky
With one hand waving free

Offline Kayos

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 947
  • Gender: Male
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #697 on: September 02, 2016, 01:43:58 PM »
So I moved to my apartment yesterday in Habuk (Yangsan). After picking me up from the office of education and we headed to Yangsan, he kept telling me that he has two daughters at home and his wife is angry so he had to go home. I didn't get to the Immigration Bureau or the bank. Luckily I had told him I should buy groceries so he took me there. He didn't look too happy because he was such in a rush to go home. I realized after my co-teacher had left that my apartment did not have bedsheets, pillows or blankets. Thankfully my scarves were big enough to be used as my shower towel, my bedsheet and blanket. I didn't have wifi in my apartment so I walked to Paris Baquette and met an elderly Russian man whom I tried to speak to but he just cut me out. I am terribly lonely and although I know it's only the first few days here, I'm freaking out about how bad this could be. I just expected to be better taken cared of instead of just being tossed to figure everything out by myself. :(

Anyone in Habuk or has ever been in Habuk?

Looks like you are very close to where I am as well. I haven't been to your area yet though. I hope your experience improves. I had a shitty experience similar to yours last year when I went to Japan, my futon hadn't been delivered and the house was empty (no plates, blankets, utensils, etc.). I had to use 4 towels as a matress and blankets for 3 days - I barely slept; also, the Eikaiwa had a rule that: if you yawn in class, you are fired.

What eikaiwa was this?

Nova - it wasn't in writing, but the bosses were drilling that into us at training.

Online kyndo

  • Moderator LVL 1
  • The Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 4674
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #698 on: September 02, 2016, 02:01:37 PM »
... the Eikaiwa had a rule that: if you yawn in class, you are fired.
What eikaiwa was this?
Nova - it wasn't in writing, but the bosses were drilling that into us at training.
Maybe that's why there was that huge cocaine bust among you NOVA workers back when I was working in Japan! Definitely would help prevent yawning!  :laugh:

Anyway, us GEOS folk had a nice long laugh when the papers came out likening NOVA to a giant drug cartel.  :smiley:

Offline Kayos

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 947
  • Gender: Male
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #699 on: September 02, 2016, 02:09:53 PM »
... the Eikaiwa had a rule that: if you yawn in class, you are fired.
What eikaiwa was this?
Nova - it wasn't in writing, but the bosses were drilling that into us at training.
Maybe that's why there was that huge cocaine bust among you NOVA workers back when I was working in Japan! Definitely would help prevent yawning!  :laugh:

Anyway, us GEOS folk had a nice long laugh when the papers came out likening NOVA to a giant drug cartel.  :smiley:

OMG Really? :O I'll have to look it up. I didn't stay past training, it was such a horrible experience, that it has put me off of private schools (in Asia at least).
I know the week after I left, my Japanese friend was telling me that 1 branch of Nova was on the news, because the owner of the branch was forcing some students to pay extra, and was pocketting that extra $.
I plan to go back to Japan, I'm unsure if at the end of my year here in Korea, or after a second, and I will strictly be in a public school. haha.