December 12, 2018, 01:14:12 PM


Author Topic: Cryptocurrency  (Read 47661 times)

Online Savant

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Re: Cryptocurrency
« Reply #400 on: December 07, 2018, 08:23:03 PM »
I kind of get the feeling that when you posted this report, you didn't quite understand its implications and that yu assumed it fought for your belief that gambling in crypto was a good idea (were you burned in the cryptomania?)

I posted the report because people who know absolutely nothing about blockchain technology like to offer their views on it. Oh and thanks for your concern but I sold everything in January and made a huge profit. My focus is on risk not reward, so I'm far from being a gambler.

You quoted me and I wasn't dissing blockchain but the sheer fallacy of the Bitcoin Ponzi scheme and the belief held by the Crypto faithful that it one day soon will be compatible with or even replace hard currency. It remains nothing but a get rich quick scheme and something to be used in some niche business'.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 08:27:22 PM by Savant »

Offline belo horizonte

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Re: Cryptocurrency
« Reply #401 on: December 07, 2018, 09:09:40 PM »
You quoted me and I wasn't dissing blockchain but the sheer fallacy of the Bitcoin Ponzi scheme and the belief held by the Crypto faithful that it one day soon will be compatible with or even replace hard currency. It remains nothing but a get rich quick scheme and something to be used in some niche business'.

You seem to think that I'm some sort of crypto evangelist, which is not true. I'm not a fan of blockchain and AI at all. What interests me is the price volatility. All I said was that Bitcoin and crypto will survive and, when the time is right I will trade the sh!t out of those coins (again) and make a lot of money (again).

To say that Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme is quite ridiculous. Did early holders of Bitcoin try to recruit new people/investors for Bitcoin? Initially it was just geeks mining and spending thousands of Bitcoins on pizza and often giving away Bitcoins for free. Does Bitcoin promise regular returns that exceed average market returns? The Bitcoin whitepaper is available for anyone to read and it doesn't promise any kind of regular returns. I will admit that there have been many crypto scams and even Ponzi schemes (the Bitconnect saga springs to mind), but Bitcoin itself is not one of them.

Online Savant

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Re: Cryptocurrency
« Reply #402 on: December 08, 2018, 01:42:50 PM »
You quoted me and I wasn't dissing blockchain but the sheer fallacy of the Bitcoin Ponzi scheme and the belief held by the Crypto faithful that it one day soon will be compatible with or even replace hard currency. It remains nothing but a get rich quick scheme and something to be used in some niche business'.

You seem to think that I'm some sort of crypto evangelist, which is not true. I'm not a fan of blockchain and AI at all. What interests me is the price volatility. All I said was that Bitcoin and crypto will survive and, when the time is right I will trade the sh!t out of those coins (again) and make a lot of money (again).

To say that Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme is quite ridiculous. Did early holders of Bitcoin try to recruit new people/investors for Bitcoin? Initially it was just geeks mining and spending thousands of Bitcoins on pizza and often giving away Bitcoins for free. Does Bitcoin promise regular returns that exceed average market returns? The Bitcoin whitepaper is available for anyone to read and it doesn't promise any kind of regular returns. I will admit that there have been many crypto scams and even Ponzi schemes (the Bitconnect saga springs to mind), but Bitcoin itself is not one of them.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/12/07/investing/bitcoin-prices-plunging/index.html

"Nearly two-thirds of money managers surveyed by asset management firm Natixis still thought that cryptocurrencies were a bubble, the firm reported this week."

The hype is crashing down. Bitcoin turned into a "mania". I'll call it a "hype train" rather than Ponzi scheme. Bitcoin's value rises based on speculation and endorsements. So far, it has shown to have no intrinsic value.

Offline PatrickBateman

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Re: Cryptocurrency
« Reply #403 on: December 08, 2018, 02:13:14 PM »
No intrinsic value, yes, but it does have scarcity and utility.  The dollars intrinsic value is that it can be written on or used for kindling in case a fire is needed.  It costs about 16 cents to create a $100 bill, so the rest of that hundred bucks — the remaining $99.84 — comes from the trust people place in it.  With the gov't/federal reserve printing paper at will and destroying our wealth with inflation as wages stay stagnant, you can see how a store and exchange wealth that is permissionless and stateless can be a worthwhile asset.  There are plenty of recent real-world examples of what happens to paper money if printed in excess.  I bet those countries are loving the idea BTC, I heard Venezuela is using it quite a bit.  It just needs more stability.  As of now, it's the most secure public ledger and has the potential to continue to have value.  I think the price run-up last year and the get rich quick folks and most likely market manipulators made BTC and other crypto look bad but the underlining idea an theory is solid.  The ICO bubble that ETH created was also ridiculous but the code and functions have big potential if it can scale.   

Offline belo horizonte

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Re: Cryptocurrency
« Reply #404 on: December 08, 2018, 06:38:39 PM »
"Nearly two-thirds of money managers surveyed by asset management firm Natixis still thought that cryptocurrencies were a bubble, the firm reported this week."

The hype is crashing down. Bitcoin turned into a "mania". I'll call it a "hype train" rather than Ponzi scheme. Bitcoin's value rises based on speculation and endorsements. So far, it has shown to have no intrinsic value.

This is how markets work, at the top there is hype in order to get unfortunate people to buy at the inflated prices while the smart money is selling their holdings. Then at the other end, when price is falling, the smart money is wanting to re-enter at the lowest possible price, so the news cycle reverses and is about how it has lost so much value and is useless, going to zero blah blah.

Offline belo horizonte

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Re: Cryptocurrency
« Reply #405 on: December 08, 2018, 06:43:42 PM »
Have we got past the point of people still believing that Bitcoin will be a real currency?

Did you know that the algorithm Bitcoin uses, SHA-256, was created by the NSA? So is it also possible that Bitcoin itself was created by the same people? You might want to think about the implications of that.

Offline kapusta

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Re: Cryptocurrency
« Reply #406 on: December 08, 2018, 08:19:29 PM »
Have we got past the point of people still believing that Bitcoin will be a real currency?

Did you know that the algorithm Bitcoin uses, SHA-256, was created by the NSA? So is it also possible that Bitcoin itself was created by the same people? You might want to think about the implications of that.

1. SHA-256 is an arbitrary hashing function. One that's been used all over programs / the web for many years. It has nothing to do with what makes bitcoin bitcoin.

2. Most people in the West will have a hard time understanding the intrinsic value of an asset that is governed by deterministic code rather an a national sovereign. We don't see the use case, because we aren't the ones that need it. Yet. And hopefully it stays that way. But tell me what it is that you think makes a currency "real." Because from my end, it's just a piece of paper and a whole lot of trust in said national sovereign.


Online Savant

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Re: Cryptocurrency
« Reply #407 on: December 08, 2018, 08:22:36 PM »
"Nearly two-thirds of money managers surveyed by asset management firm Natixis still thought that cryptocurrencies were a bubble, the firm reported this week."

The hype is crashing down. Bitcoin turned into a "mania". I'll call it a "hype train" rather than Ponzi scheme. Bitcoin's value rises based on speculation and endorsements. So far, it has shown to have no intrinsic value.

This is how markets work, at the top there is hype in order to get unfortunate people to buy at the inflated prices while the smart money is selling their holdings. Then at the other end, when price is falling, the smart money is wanting to re-enter at the lowest possible price, so the news cycle reverses and is about how it has lost so much value and is useless, going to zero blah blah.

I am not against investing in Bitcoin, if one, has extra money around. But, my point remains that Bitcoin is only a virtual commodity. It is only driven by hype and speculation; whereas, stock values, for instance, are driven by profitability, market demand, management structure etc. They have targets to hit which may influence their stock price. Investment in stocks can return dividends. What targets does Bitcoin have?

Offline belo horizonte

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Re: Cryptocurrency
« Reply #408 on: December 08, 2018, 11:27:43 PM »
But tell me what it is that you think makes a currency "real." Because from my end, it's just a piece of paper and a whole lot of trust in said national sovereign.

For something to be considered money, it needs to be a good store of value, easily divisible, fungible and, most importantly, accepted by others as a medium for exchange. Essentially anything can be money once those conditions are met.

Offline belo horizonte

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Re: Cryptocurrency
« Reply #409 on: December 08, 2018, 11:37:12 PM »
I am not against investing in Bitcoin, if one, has extra money around. But, my point remains that Bitcoin is only a virtual commodity. It is only driven by hype and speculation; whereas, stock values, for instance, are driven by profitability, market demand, management structure etc. They have targets to hit which may influence their stock price. Investment in stocks can return dividends. What targets does Bitcoin have?

Many S+P stocks like Apple have also had parabolic growth over the last 15 years, much of that has been hype rather than quality of product. If you compare crypto to other currencies, there is a limited supply controlled by mathematics (unlike FIAT currencies where governments can print as much as they want). Many cryptocurrencies offer staking returns too, if you hold them in an online wallet.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 11:39:11 PM by belo horizonte »

Online JNM

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Re: Cryptocurrency
« Reply #410 on: December 09, 2018, 01:22:43 PM »
But tell me what it is that you think makes a currency "real." Because from my end, it's just a piece of paper and a whole lot of trust in said national sovereign.

For something to be considered money, it needs to be a good store of value, easily divisible, fungible and, most importantly, accepted by others as a medium for exchange. Essentially anything can be money once those conditions are met.
Crypto falls down hard on the last item (as does “soft fiat”) where as “hard fiat” has that.

While I wouldn’t put my life savings in KRW, I’m quite happy to keep it in CAD.


Offline alexisalex

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Re: Cryptocurrency
« Reply #411 on: December 10, 2018, 08:02:11 AM »
The people who bought at $19K don't want to buy at $3.5K I guess.  Madness.

Online oglop

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Re: Cryptocurrency
« Reply #412 on: December 10, 2018, 09:32:52 AM »
The people who bought at $19K don't want to buy at $3.5K I guess.  Madness.

that's greed for you

and there's no saying btc won't be 2k this time next month, so there's that too

and maybe people already lost as much as they were willing to lose