A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.

[AvecPommesFrites]

Y'all ever message someone a sarky 1 liner and get a 6 paragraph essay back in reply? 

Cheers for the laughs Martin. 

You kind of have to post it now, seriously, that is the law!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go ahead. I don't give a crap.

Avec PMs me out of the blue with some one-liner insult. Fired back with a few sentences as well as a few emojis. Whatever. All in good fun. Then she PMs me again. I'm a loser and blah blah blah. Kids stuff.

Anyways, Avec what happened to your thread where you apologized to everyone? Did you forget the night that caused you to write that already? Antibiotics working so you're good to go out and party again? Come on, go all the way to Step 12. Remember that we deal with alcohol- cunning, baffling, powerful.

I've not had a drink in 7 nearly years. That was just banter amigo. Maybe go back to it and reread it.

[AvecPommesFrites]

I usually dress professionally.  However, today I threw on a pair of jeans, t-shirt with a graphic, and a cardigan sweater.  Students seldom comment on my clothes.  However, today I got compliments from every class.  Maybe I should go more casual.

Yeah - dress in whatever's comfortable for you. It's fun to switch it up once in a while. Whenever I wear a fun t-shirt or something, kids usually love it. And whenever I dress slightly more up than usual, they love it, too.

If you work at an elementary school then defo casual it up.

[denimdaze]

I usually dress professionally.  However, today I threw on a pair of jeans, t-shirt with a graphic, and a cardigan sweater.  Students seldom comment on my clothes.  However, today I got compliments from every class.  Maybe I should go more casual.

Working Adults or Elementary/Junior/High/College students?

These were middle school students.

[Mr.DeMartino]

Y'all ever message someone a sarky 1 liner and get a 6 paragraph essay back in reply? 

Cheers for the laughs Martin. 

You kind of have to post it now, seriously, that is the law!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go ahead. I don't give a crap.

Avec PMs me out of the blue with some one-liner insult. Fired back with a few sentences as well as a few emojis. Whatever. All in good fun. Then she PMs me again. I'm a loser and blah blah blah. Kids stuff.

Anyways, Avec what happened to your thread where you apologized to everyone? Did you forget the night that caused you to write that already? Antibiotics working so you're good to go out and party again? Come on, go all the way to Step 12. Remember that we deal with alcohol- cunning, baffling, powerful.

I've not had a drink in 7 nearly years. That was just banter amigo. Maybe go back to it and reread it.

Well cashing in a 7 year chip and going straight to step 5 does make sense. The wagon ride always has bumps.

Anyways, amigo? We're chingus now? Ole! Party on waygook.org! Tequila shots for everyone! And a Shirley Temple for mi amgia Papas Fritas!

[AvecPommesFrites]

Y'all ever message someone a sarky 1 liner and get a 6 paragraph essay back in reply? 

Cheers for the laughs Martin. 

You kind of have to post it now, seriously, that is the law!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go ahead. I don't give a crap.

Avec PMs me out of the blue with some one-liner insult. Fired back with a few sentences as well as a few emojis. Whatever. All in good fun. Then she PMs me again. I'm a loser and blah blah blah. Kids stuff.

Anyways, Avec what happened to your thread where you apologized to everyone? Did you forget the night that caused you to write that already? Antibiotics working so you're good to go out and party again? Come on, go all the way to Step 12. Remember that we deal with alcohol- cunning, baffling, powerful.

I've not had a drink in 7 nearly years. That was just banter amigo. Maybe go back to it and reread it.

Well cashing in a 7 year chip and going straight to step 5 does make sense. The wagon ride always has bumps.

Anyways, amigo? We're chingus now? Ole! Party on waygook.org! Tequila shots for everyone! And a Shirley Temple for mi amgia Papas Fritas!

Damn right man. Love the banter. Makes the clock go that little bit faster. 

[Mister Tim]

Like seriously, how arrogant do you have to be to believe that after 1-2 years experience, that you will sound like a native speaker and people won't give you a blank stare? 95% of other immigrants to other countries can't pull that off. What makes you think you can? You know all those Pakistanis that immigrated to our countries when they were 14-45 and still speak with a bad accent? Guess what? That's you.

Like seriously, how arrogant do you have to be to expect immigrants to speak your language perfectly? How arrogant do you have to be to shrug off someone's attempts at communication with you because they have a "bad accent?"

Absolutely nobody here is saying they speak perfect, unaccented Korean, because that would be an absurd claim. They're just frustrated that, despite trying, they're still often met with blank stares or derision. They're frustrated that they aren't understood because they have an accent, despite it being perfectly normal for a foreigner to speak a new language with an accent.

There might be a few idiots who expect perfection but most don't. Anyways, the point is that this is part of the immigrant experience. People are going to get frustrated. Some might nervously laugh.

Maybe they aren't understood because the person can't understand them.

I think what people are getting at is that perhaps it isn't part of some overarching "Immigrant Experience" that all immigrants everywhere face.

Yes, learning a new language is difficult, and most adult learners will never be able to speak perfect, unaccented new languages. The point being argued here is that, compared to other nationalities/languages, Koreans seem to be either less willing or less able to communicate with non-native speakers. (They aren't alone in having such a stereotype, if what people say about the French is true . )

I can't speak for everyone here complaining about it, of course, but my experience with trying to use different languages with native speakers seems to corroborate the idea. I was an Arabic linguist in the Navy, so I can at very least say I didn't have similar problems with Arabic speakers I met from Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Bahrain, or the UAE (though I did meet one dickhead from Sudan who gave me shit for making mistakes, haha). I didn't get blank stares or giggles at the Syrian restaurant in Manama, or the Egyptian hooka bar in Dubai. I also made the unfortunate decision to study and get my degree in Spanish (now there's a useful degree!), and again, I didn't have any trouble trying to communicate with native-speakers from a number of different countries.

Compared to Spanish and Arabic speakers, though, I've had a much higher percentage of attempted interactions in Korean go south. That's not to say it always goes poorly, or even that it usually does. Many Koreans are wonderfully helpful, and often super stoked that we're even trying. It's just that, compared to my interactions with speakers of other languages in and from other countries, they're more likely to just give a blank stare, be dismissive, or flat out laugh at me.

Of course, Spanish speakers are probably much more likely to have heard their fair share of Spanish being butchered than Koreans in similar situation. To his credit, Basedcowboy did  point that out as a possible reason, and I'm inclined to believe him. I suspect that as more immigrants come to Korea and non-natives trying to speak Korean become less of a novelty, this frustration will become a bit less prominent. However, that doesn't make it any less frustrating for people now, nor does it lessen their experience any.

[Mr.DeMartino]

Damn right man. Love the banter. Makes the clock go that little bit faster. 

Wicked Wednesday is just 1:15 away. 

[lifeisgood6447]

Y'all ever message someone a sarky 1 liner and get a 6 paragraph essay back in reply? 

Cheers for the laughs Martin. 

You kind of have to post it now, seriously, that is the law!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go ahead. I don't give a crap.

Avec PMs me out of the blue with some one-liner insult. Fired back with a few sentences as well as a few emojis. Whatever. All in good fun. Then she PMs me again. I'm a loser and blah blah blah. Kids stuff.

Anyways, Avec what happened to your thread where you apologized to everyone? Did you forget the night that caused you to write that already? Antibiotics working so you're good to go out and party again? Come on, go all the way to Step 12. Remember that we deal with alcohol- cunning, baffling, powerful.

I got a PM, too. 

[AvecPommesFrites]

Y'all ever message someone a sarky 1 liner and get a 6 paragraph essay back in reply? 

Cheers for the laughs Martin. 

You kind of have to post it now, seriously, that is the law!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go ahead. I don't give a crap.

Avec PMs me out of the blue with some one-liner insult. Fired back with a few sentences as well as a few emojis. Whatever. All in good fun. Then she PMs me again. I'm a loser and blah blah blah. Kids stuff.

Anyways, Avec what happened to your thread where you apologized to everyone? Did you forget the night that caused you to write that already? Antibiotics working so you're good to go out and party again? Come on, go all the way to Step 12. Remember that we deal with alcohol- cunning, baffling, powerful.

I got a PM, too. 

Then you are very special. 

[lifeisgood6447]

Y'all ever message someone a sarky 1 liner and get a 6 paragraph essay back in reply? 

Cheers for the laughs Martin. 

You kind of have to post it now, seriously, that is the law!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go ahead. I don't give a crap.

Avec PMs me out of the blue with some one-liner insult. Fired back with a few sentences as well as a few emojis. Whatever. All in good fun. Then she PMs me again. I'm a loser and blah blah blah. Kids stuff.

Anyways, Avec what happened to your thread where you apologized to everyone? Did you forget the night that caused you to write that already? Antibiotics working so you're good to go out and party again? Come on, go all the way to Step 12. Remember that we deal with alcohol- cunning, baffling, powerful.

I got a PM, too. 

Then you are very special. 

 

[JNM]

Like seriously, how arrogant do you have to be to believe that after 1-2 years experience, that you will sound like a native speaker and people won't give you a blank stare? 95% of other immigrants to other countries can't pull that off. What makes you think you can? You know all those Pakistanis that immigrated to our countries when they were 14-45 and still speak with a bad accent? Guess what? That's you.

Like seriously, how arrogant do you have to be to expect immigrants to speak your language perfectly? How arrogant do you have to be to shrug off someone's attempts at communication with you because they have a "bad accent?"

Absolutely nobody here is saying they speak perfect, unaccented Korean, because that would be an absurd claim. They're just frustrated that, despite trying, they're still often met with blank stares or derision. They're frustrated that they aren't understood because they have an accent, despite it being perfectly normal for a foreigner to speak a new language with an accent.

There might be a few idiots who expect perfection but most don't. Anyways, the point is that this is part of the immigrant experience. People are going to get frustrated. Some might nervously laugh.

Maybe they aren't understood because the person can't understand them.

I think what people are getting at is that perhaps it isn't part of some overarching "Immigrant Experience" that all immigrants everywhere face.

Yes, learning a new language is difficult, and most adult learners will never be able to speak perfect, unaccented new languages. The point being argued here is that, compared to other nationalities/languages, Koreans seem to be either less willing or less able to communicate with non-native speakers. (They aren't alone in having such a stereotype, if what people say about the French is true . )

I can't speak for everyone here complaining about it, of course, but my experience with trying to use different languages with native speakers seems to corroborate the idea. I was an Arabic linguist in the Navy, so I can at very least say I didn't have similar problems with Arabic speakers I met from Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Bahrain, or the UAE (though I did meet one dickhead from Sudan who gave me shit for making mistakes, haha). I didn't get blank stares or giggles at the Syrian restaurant in Manama, or the Egyptian hooka bar in Dubai. I also made the unfortunate decision to study and get my degree in Spanish (now there's a useful degree!), and again, I didn't have any trouble trying to communicate with native-speakers from a number of different countries.

Compared to Spanish and Arabic speakers, though, I've had a much higher percentage of attempted interactions in Korean go south. That's not to say it always goes poorly, or even that it usually does. Many Koreans are wonderfully helpful, and often super stoked that we're even trying. It's just that, compared to my interactions with speakers of other languages in and from other countries, they're more likely to just give a blank stare, be dismissive, or flat out laugh at me.

Of course, Spanish speakers are probably much more likely to have heard their fair share of Spanish being butchered than Koreans in similar situation. To his credit, Basedcowboy did  point that out as a possible reason, and I'm inclined to believe him. I suspect that as more immigrants come to Korea and non-natives trying to speak Korean become less of a novelty, this frustration will become a bit less prominent. However, that doesn't make it any less frustrating for people now, nor does it lessen their experience any.

Australian English
Colombian Spanish
Morrocan Arabic
Quebec French

Speaking global languages, we are used to hearing different regional dialects and accents from 2nd language users.

Koreans don’t hear this regularly, and make a big deal about subtle differences between Seoul and Busan.

[Dave Stepz]

Of course, Spanish speakers are probably much more likely to have heard their fair share of Spanish being butchered than Koreans in similar situation. To his credit, Basedcowboy did  point that out as a possible reason, and I'm inclined to believe him. I suspect that as more immigrants come to Korea and non-natives trying to speak Korean become less of a novelty, this frustration will become a bit less prominent. However, that doesn't make it any less frustrating for people now, nor does it lessen their experience any.

It could, of course, have a bit to with how Korea portrays language on tv.  How many programs have there been where they have some 'funny' Koreans going abroad and trying to speak English really badly with a cacophony of canned laughter, "boing' noises and edited sweat marks coming off them?  'Somebody said something wrong!  Hilarious!'.  Most countries got over this thing decades ago.  In England, we reached the pinnacle of this in the 1980s with the French Policeman in 'Allo 'Allo.



Effin hilarious.......when I was in primary school. 

 

[Mister Tim]

Australian English
Colombian Spanish
Morrocan Arabic
Quebec French

Speaking global languages, we are used to hearing different regional dialects and accents from 2nd language users.

Koreans don’t hear this regularly, and make a big deal about subtle differences between Seoul and Busan.

Yes, that has been acknowledged a few times, including in the quote you posted. However, just because there's a reason Koreans often have trouble understanding  non-native speakers, doesn't make it any less frustrating for the non-native speakers who aren't being understood.

[kyndo]

Australian English
Colombian Spanish
Morrocan Arabic
Quebec French
Speaking global languages, we are used to hearing different regional dialects and accents from 2nd language users.
Koreans don’t hear this regularly, and make a big deal about subtle differences between Seoul and Busan.

Yes, that has been acknowledged a few times, including in the quote you posted. However, just because there's a reason Koreans often have trouble understanding  non-native speakers, doesn't make it any less frustrating for the non-native speakers who aren't being understood.

On a related tangent, just how different is the Jeju-doian dialect? What about the one in the far north in the PRoK? What about the Korean of Chinese-Koreans, or even American Koreans? Surely the average Korean must have heard those accents at least a few times in their lives?

     I'm just curious -- I'm not trying to take away from the (in my opinion) very valid points previous posters have made regarding more international languages.

[Mister Tim]

On a related tangent, just how different is the Jeju-doian dialect? What about the one in the far north in the PRoK? What about the Korean of Chinese-Koreans, or even American Koreans? Surely the average Korean must have heard those accents at least a few times in their lives?

     I'm just curious -- I'm not trying to take away from the (in my opinion) very valid points previous posters have made regarding more international languages.

I remember watching an historical K-drama that was partially set in Jeju (Tamra the Island, or something like that), and there were Korean subtitles during the parts where the locals were speaking Jeju dialect. An old Navy buddy of mine who studied Korean while I was studying Arabic said he wouldn't really have been unable to understand those parts without the subs. Take from that what you will, I guess, haha.

[CO2]

DeMartino, fighting racist attitudes and summing up with a racist flourish of his own:

You know all those Pakistanis that immigrated to our countries when they were 14-45 and still speak with a bad accent? Guess what? That's you.


Bad accent?  That's not too tolerant or accepting. Strong accent, I get. Distinctive? Sure. But bad? That's a pretty harsh and derogatory comment to direct towards a lot of Pakistanis.  I'm not sure why it's ok to make a sweeping negative stereotype, but no doubt you'll tell me.

"All those" doesn't mean all Pakistanis, could just mean all the ones that do have bad accents, of which I'm sure there are countless. Just like any other speaker of any language.

[Bingsu]

Oh hey guys what's goin on in this thr--

Oh god I've started a war.

[apancoe]

i've been asked by korean co-workers and korean friends a bunch of times over the years why i don't have more foreign (american, canadian, etc..) friends. i always say something vague like yeahhh we all have different schedules so it's really hard to make time to hang out, but this community is a perfect example of why i just do my own thing most of the time.  there's a few people on here that would probably be really cool to have dinner or grab a beer with, but so many other people get into these games of 1-up's-manship or weird pissing contests.

- What you don't understand is how Confuscianism has directly impacted Korea's economi....thanks, but i was asking if homeplus has reese cups.

- Somebody is having trouble with the messaging system at their school - you can count on one of the super foreigners to swoop in and belittle them. ok sweet, we're all impressed you mastered the Cool Messenger service, but the person asking the question still needs to know how to inform their co-teacher they have a problem with their bank.

- Or yeah, i want to be friends with the guy that brags about saving 9,000 won a month by not having a refrigerator in his apartment. that's not quirky or smart...its WEIRD.

and my biggest pet peeve. it's when people leave those snarky back-handed compliments but they dress them up with their little emoticons ;) because they're so smart and nobody else can see they're just being obnoxious. i get that we're online and there's a certain level of anonymity that lets you do that with no consequences, but is that seriously how you talk to people in real life? acting like you're better than them or talking down to them? any normal adult can see what you're doing and it's so sad and lame. where i'm from, you would get away with doing that exactly one time. the second time you got cute and tried to talk sideways to somebody, you would get jammed up REAL quick.   

that's why i've been here for 8 or 9 years and hardly ever post. i just try and sift through all the bs and pick out cool teaching ideas or tips on how to make living in different country easier.

[AvecPommesFrites]

i've been asked by korean co-workers and korean friends a bunch of times over the years why i don't have more foreign (american, canadian, etc..) friends. i always say something vague like yeahhh we all have different schedules so it's really hard to make time to hang out, but this community is a perfect example of why i just do my own thing most of the time.  there's a few people on here that would probably be really cool to have dinner or grab a beer with, but so many other people get into these games of 1-up's-manship or weird pissing contests.

- What you don't understand is how Confuscianism has directly impacted Korea's economi....thanks, but i was asking if homeplus has reese cups.

- Somebody is having trouble with the messaging system at their school - you can count on one of the super foreigners to swoop in and belittle them. ok sweet, we're all impressed you mastered the Cool Messenger service, but the person asking the question still needs to know how to inform their co-teacher they have a problem with their bank.

- Or yeah, i want to be friends with the guy that brags about saving 9,000 won a month by not having a refrigerator in his apartment. that's not quirky or smart...its WEIRD.

and my biggest pet peeve. it's when people leave those snarky back-handed compliments but they dress them up with their little emoticons ;) because they're so smart and nobody else can see they're just being obnoxious. i get that we're online and there's a certain level of anonymity that lets you do that with no consequences, but is that seriously how you talk to people in real life? acting like you're better than them or talking down to them? any normal adult can see what you're doing and it's so sad and lame. where i'm from, you would get away with doing that exactly one time. the second time you got cute and tried to talk sideways to somebody, you would get jammed up REAL quick.   

that's why i've been here for 8 or 9 years and hardly ever post. i just try and sift through all the bs and pick out cool teaching ideas or tips on how to make living in different country easier.

10/10 ramble/rant.

I feel ya.

Typical Facebook post in teaching group.

'Do you UK citizens get their pension back? Can we get a lump sum?'

1st reply: You can do it at the airport.
2nd reply: massive paragraph explaining how to get it for US citizens.
3rd reply: No, unless you make 120 months contributions then you can claim at retirement age.
4th reply: I did mine at the airport. You need your Canadian passport, Retina scans, sperm sample and a stamp.
5th reply: Where do you live, there is a pension office in xxx. I did mine there.
6th reply: Is pension taxed?
7th reply: Set up an easy one account at KEB. It's so easy they give you a free ******* for signing up.
8th reply: Yes.

These people do my head in.

[Mister Tim]

i've been asked by korean co-workers and korean friends a bunch of times over the years why i don't have more foreign (american, canadian, etc..) friends. i always say something vague like yeahhh we all have different schedules so it's really hard to make time to hang out, but this community is a perfect example of why i just do my own thing most of the time.  there's a few people on here that would probably be really cool to have dinner or grab a beer with, but so many other people get into these games of 1-up's-manship or weird pissing contests.

...

that's why i've been here for 8 or 9 years and hardly ever post. i just try and sift through all the bs and pick out cool teaching ideas or tips on how to make living in different country easier.

I assume only a minority of expats in Korea have signed up for this site, only a minority of those who have actually use it regularly, and only a minority of those who do are actually unpleasant. In a "squeaky wheel gets the grease" sort of way, it can be easy to see some of the people on this site and think "Man, expats in Korea are an irritating lot." However, I don't think it's really all that representative of expats here as a whole. Basically, not all teachers here are as unpleasant as I am, haha.