December 15, 2018, 04:24:08 AM


Author Topic: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.  (Read 852467 times)

Offline Pennypie

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #5060 on: May 08, 2018, 12:41:28 PM »
So for fun I was checking how many days I have left at work.

109 days til the end of my contract!

and

73 days til the end of term!

 :shocked:

My motivation is slowly creeping down every day though. I still do a good job and I doubt anyone has noticed much but mentally I just can't be arsed anymore.

Are you peace-ing out when you're done, or just peace-ing out of that particular job?


Peace - ing out out. Back home.

It's pretty ****** scary actually.

I did that.... then came back a year later. Hopefully it works out better for you than it did for me. :)

That's super scary. What made you come back? If you don't mind me asking.

Most of the people I know that went and came back again went into teaching back home and hated it.

I think emotionally I'm really done with Korea.

Offline Pennypie

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #5061 on: May 08, 2018, 12:45:04 PM »
So for fun I was checking how many days I have left at work.

109 days til the end of my contract!

and

73 days til the end of term!

 :shocked:

My motivation is slowly creeping down every day though. I still do a good job and I doubt anyone has noticed much but mentally I just can't be arsed anymore.

Are you peace-ing out when you're done, or just peace-ing out of that particular job?


Peace - ing out out. Back home.

It's pretty ****** scary actually.

Marks and Spencers isn't really that scary.  I mean no one really does their main shop there, just some special bits.

And Cornish pasties?



And you get to go to a country pub and drink ale 



:cry:

And you actually have a build up to Christmas that means something...

 :cry: :cry: :cry:

Everything in this post was beautiful.

I doubt I'll ever be able to shop regularly in Marks and Sparks though   :cry: Maybe late at night when they discount. Anyway...Waitrose is posher now isn't it?

Christmas is going to be amazing. I really miss the buzz of it, it was always and still is my favorite time of year. I know people say it's too much and Christmas is just commercialized now but I really don't care. It's the most wonderful time of the year.

Thanks Dave I'm excited to go back again now.  ;D
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 12:46:50 PM by Pennypie »

Offline sojuadventurer

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #5062 on: May 08, 2018, 12:59:26 PM »
So for fun I was checking how many days I have left at work.

109 days til the end of my contract!

and

73 days til the end of term!

 :shocked:

My motivation is slowly creeping down every day though. I still do a good job and I doubt anyone has noticed much but mentally I just can't be arsed anymore.

Are you peace-ing out when you're done, or just peace-ing out of that particular job?


Peace - ing out out. Back home.

It's pretty ****** scary actually.

I did that.... then came back a year later. Hopefully it works out better for you than it did for me. :)

That's super scary. What made you come back? If you don't mind me asking.

Most of the people I know that went and came back again went into teaching back home and hated it.

I think emotionally I'm really done with Korea.

After about 8 months, the "reverse culture shock" things hadn't gone away.... and I realized they probably never would. I also realized how much I actually missed my job in Korea and how much I missed life there. The grass always seems greener.... then you realize it actually wasn't. :-/

Offline Kayos

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #5063 on: May 08, 2018, 01:51:20 PM »
So for fun I was checking how many days I have left at work.

109 days til the end of my contract!

and

73 days til the end of term!

 :shocked:

My motivation is slowly creeping down every day though. I still do a good job and I doubt anyone has noticed much but mentally I just can't be arsed anymore.

Are you peace-ing out when you're done, or just peace-ing out of that particular job?


Peace - ing out out. Back home.

It's pretty ****** scary actually.

I did that.... then came back a year later. Hopefully it works out better for you than it did for me. :)

That's super scary. What made you come back? If you don't mind me asking.

Most of the people I know that went and came back again went into teaching back home and hated it.

I think emotionally I'm really done with Korea.

I left and came back a few months later myself.
For me, I had a job lined up in Japan, at the last minute it fell through. I managed to find my current public school position really quick, and got offered the spot during the interview for it.

I'm glad things worked out this way. While I think I'd be much happier in Japan, my current job in Korea is pretty great. I enjoy my schools, co-workers, and most of my students (There are a few new students that, think everything that isn't soccer is below them, and because they are part of the soccer team, they don't have to do any of the work from any teacher / subject.)
The classes these students have joined have become much harder to teach, even for the Korean teachers, because their bad attitude is rubbing off on other students. Luckily, they had an important soccer game about 3 weeks back. The classes were really rude to: my co-teacher, the principal, and myself. The principal asked me, how we would discipline students back home. I said, detention (writing an English sentence over and over) during lunchtime, afterschool, or during some kind of event, like a soccer game, that uses their time. The principal chose their soccer game time, and ask me to run the DT, and they -almost- had to forfeit the game because of so many students in DT. They weren't happy. :p

I'm planning to make the jump to Japan in the future still though. My current 1st graders at my main school are great kids, passionate about learning English, and have pretty good English abilities; considering, we live in the middle of nowhere, and I'm probably the only native English speaker they will meet for a long time. I'm thinking of staying here until those students graduate; or until the school doesn't want to renew me; or until I can't take the isolation anymore. I'm in a super rural spot, where it is hard to travel to anywhere for the weekend or whatever; I understand what you mean about being emotionally done with Korea. Depending on a lot of factors, it can be mentally draining on us foreigners.

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #5064 on: May 08, 2018, 02:03:01 PM »
Sometimes, the Korean teachers write some things that are so dubious and as a native English teacher having students coming and asking questions about it makes it more difficult.

Today, one question was about 'making a boomerang' and the choice and correct answer was to substitute the word 'making' and to use the word 'build'.  I can find some sites that use build, but it is so unnatural. 

The other one annoyed me no end.  The text was in English, all of the answers were in English and you had to pick the correct missing sentence.  But, to me, three of the options were the same.  But the teacher who wrote it (who makes only grammar questions) said it was correct with the Korean grammar way of looking at things.  No student has kicked up a fuss, but when I told my co-teacher she agreed  with me.

I think one of the most frustrating things for me is when students are taught that 'a' as in 'cat' is pronounced the same as 애. I know that it's not the same as 아, but it certainly sounds a lot more similar to 아.


And the short 'o' sound is 아.

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Online sligo

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #5065 on: May 08, 2018, 02:30:03 PM »
Until someone manages to make Korea understand that Hangul isn't good for anything but Korean, they will continue to use it as a teaching aid for English which will lead all Korean students to base their pronunciation of English upon it.

Every breakthrough i make with kids regarding pronunciation is destroyed within a week by a (useless) Korean teacher using Hangul to teach pronunciation of the alphabet.  Pock light op you marder pocker. 

Why is this still a thing?

Offline Pennypie

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #5066 on: May 08, 2018, 02:50:44 PM »
Until someone manages to make Korea understand that Hangul isn't good for anything but Korean, they will continue to use it as a teaching aid for English which will lead all Korean students to base their pronunciation of English upon it.

Every breakthrough i make with kids regarding pronunciation is destroyed within a week by a (useless) Korean teacher using Hangul to teach pronunciation of the alphabet.  Pock light op you marder pocker. 

Why is this still a thing?

Sorry but why is it such a big deal?

These kids are never going to sound like a native speaker. They aren't native speakers.

but showing the kids the pronunciation in their own language helps them when they are first learning. It gives them something to relate to .

It also helps lower level kids to participate when they would otherwise have no chance.

I know when I first arrived I learned Hangul using English pronunciation guides.

Are you saying you didn't? You learned using only Hangul and sounds?


Offline JVPrice

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #5067 on: May 08, 2018, 03:00:33 PM »
Until someone manages to make Korea understand that Hangul isn't good for anything but Korean, they will continue to use it as a teaching aid for English which will lead all Korean students to base their pronunciation of English upon it.

Every breakthrough i make with kids regarding pronunciation is destroyed within a week by a (useless) Korean teacher using Hangul to teach pronunciation of the alphabet.  Pock light op you marder pocker. 

Why is this still a thing?

Sorry but why is it such a big deal?

These kids are never going to sound like a native speaker. They aren't native speakers.

but showing the kids the pronunciation in their own language helps them when they are first learning. It gives them something to relate to .

It also helps lower level kids to participate when they would otherwise have no chance.

I know when I first arrived I learned Hangul using English pronunciation guides.

Are you saying you didn't? You learned using only Hangul and sounds?

For beginners it is a good thing. It's another thing when it is promoted across all levels of English learning. Can't really say they're learning "proper" English otherwise. If they have their own pronunciations for well-established English words, it will make communication with native speakers more difficult than if they knew the actual pronunciation.
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Offline Pennypie

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #5068 on: May 08, 2018, 03:16:17 PM »
Until someone manages to make Korea understand that Hangul isn't good for anything but Korean, they will continue to use it as a teaching aid for English which will lead all Korean students to base their pronunciation of English upon it.

Every breakthrough i make with kids regarding pronunciation is destroyed within a week by a (useless) Korean teacher using Hangul to teach pronunciation of the alphabet.  Pock light op you marder pocker. 

Why is this still a thing?

Sorry but why is it such a big deal?

These kids are never going to sound like a native speaker. They aren't native speakers.

but showing the kids the pronunciation in their own language helps them when they are first learning. It gives them something to relate to .

It also helps lower level kids to participate when they would otherwise have no chance.

I know when I first arrived I learned Hangul using English pronunciation guides.

Are you saying you didn't? You learned using only Hangul and sounds?

For beginners it is a good thing. It's another thing when it is promoted across all levels of English learning. Can't really say they're learning "proper" English otherwise. If they have their own pronunciations for well-established English words, it will make communication with native speakers more difficult than if they knew the actual pronunciation.

S
Yeah I know what you're saying.

 It isn't promoted officially though. None of the textbooks have Korean pronunciations in them (that I know of). If they learn it it's because the teachers are helping them. I rarely see Hangul used in English class unless it's a worksheet or written by the teacher to help lower level students.
 I just don't think we can discount it entirely as it can be a useful tool if used correctly.

Also - to people saying that the Korean teachers aren't pronouncing things "correctly" so the students are learning the "wrong" way. - What is correct?

I just feel like, they are Korean...they are Asian...they aren't native speakers. They are never going to sound like native speakers. We shouldn't be discouraging students by saying their pronunciation is wrong.

Yes it needs to sound as close as possible and yes we need to guide them, but using an example from above I don't think a native English speaker is going to have a problem understanding 캣 instead of cat.

It's just something that bugs me.

I know you're all going to hit me with a 1000 reasons why I'm wrong.

I just think some of you go pretty hard on your coteachers/students pronunciation. Give them a break.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 03:21:24 PM by Pennypie »

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #5069 on: May 08, 2018, 03:25:29 PM »
I know you're all going to hit me with a 1000 reasons why I'm wrong.
Here's one reason.

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Offline AWVM_HXE

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #5070 on: May 08, 2018, 06:08:07 PM »
Until someone manages to make Korea understand that Hangul isn't good for anything but Korean, they will continue to use it as a teaching aid for English which will lead all Korean students to base their pronunciation of English upon it.

Every breakthrough i make with kids regarding pronunciation is destroyed within a week by a (useless) Korean teacher using Hangul to teach pronunciation of the alphabet.  Pock light op you marder pocker. 

Why is this still a thing?

Sorry but why is it such a big deal?

These kids are never going to sound like a native speaker. They aren't native speakers.

but showing the kids the pronunciation in their own language helps them when they are first learning. It gives them something to relate to .

It also helps lower level kids to participate when they would otherwise have no chance.

I know when I first arrived I learned Hangul using English pronunciation guides.

Are you saying you didn't? You learned using only Hangul and sounds?

I'm sorry, are you saying that students should be learning English using hangul pronunciation? They shouldn't. Why on earth would you want students to learn English without being able to properly form and recognize phonemes? It seems to be a massive sticking point with people in this forum that their students cannot produce accurate language due to pronunciation problems, which are further reinforced by inaccurate drilling from KTs, anyway.

I can't imagine walking up to my students' parents and saying, "Your child was born in Russia and lives in (redacted); I'm going to speak to them using Cyrillic pronunciation, even though it doesn't match. It's fine, he's not a native speaker." For the record, many ELLs do achieve native-level fluency, and pronunciation is a huge part of that- as a confidence-building tool, if nothing else.

Moreover, it's my understanding that most East Asian ELLs worry about pronunciation the most. Using Hangul as a jumping-off point is fine for little ones, I guess, or casual study, but considering the amount of time and money the Korean government seems to pour into English education- lessening or not, as it may be- it seems really to do students a disservice.

Online sligo

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #5071 on: May 08, 2018, 06:59:03 PM »
Until someone manages to make Korea understand that Hangul isn't good for anything but Korean, they will continue to use it as a teaching aid for English which will lead all Korean students to base their pronunciation of English upon it.

Every breakthrough i make with kids regarding pronunciation is destroyed within a week by a (useless) Korean teacher using Hangul to teach pronunciation of the alphabet.  Pock light op you marder pocker. 

Why is this still a thing?

Sorry but why is it such a big deal?

These kids are never going to sound like a native speaker. They aren't native speakers.

but showing the kids the pronunciation in their own language helps them when they are first learning. It gives them something to relate to .

It also helps lower level kids to participate when they would otherwise have no chance.

I know when I first arrived I learned Hangul using English pronunciation guides.

Are you saying you didn't? You learned using only Hangul and sounds?


I'm not saying that at all, what i am saying is that once the student has the sounds down, then hangul should be removed from the lessons.  The problem is, they think Hangul is so amazing, that the phonics taught with Hangul become stuck in, and as such English becomes so tightly linked to the Korean alphabet and its pronunciation rules, that the child has no chance to even sound remotely natural (no-one is aiming for native) in their speech.  so much so that the word "stripe" (1 syable) is elongated to 5!

Hangul should be used as a guide rather than an accurate idea of how each letter should sound.

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #5072 on: May 08, 2018, 08:12:23 PM »

For beginners it is a good thing.
it's really not, especially for beginners

Offline AvecPommesFrites

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #5073 on: May 09, 2018, 02:10:18 PM »
Somebody teach me how to do that thingy where you type something in blue and it goes to a web page or a picture. I need to up my waygook game. Feeling a bit second-string today looking back on some of the old threads from the greats of the bygone era. PM or reply on here if you can be arsed.
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Offline ESLTurtle

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #5074 on: May 09, 2018, 02:15:52 PM »
So I was in Gangnam last night and I met up with a colleague that's currently working for a private institution in Yamaguchi. One of the classes he teaches are upper-intermediate (based upon the CEFR framework), and he teaches them a TED-based curriculum. His students can barely produce basic, complete sentences. Any tips?  :rolleyes:




Offline Chinguetti

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #5075 on: May 09, 2018, 02:37:24 PM »
Somebody teach me how to do that thingy where you type something in blue and it goes to a web page or a picture. I need to up my waygook game. Feeling a bit second-string today looking back on some of the old threads from the greats of the bygone era. PM or reply on here if you can be arsed.

You can click on the hyperlink button for the code or manually type it out, then fill in the blanks as needed. Whatever you type in between the code will show up as clickable blue text.

Offline AvecPommesFrites

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #5076 on: May 09, 2018, 02:47:10 PM »
Somebody teach me how to do that thingy where you type something in blue and it goes to a web page or a picture. I need to up my waygook game. Feeling a bit second-string today looking back on some of the old threads from the greats of the bygone era. PM or reply on here if you can be arsed.

You can click on the hyperlink button for the code or manually type it out, then fill in the blanks as needed. Whatever you type in between the code will show up as clickable blue text.

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Offline yirj17

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #5077 on: May 09, 2018, 02:55:23 PM »
I'm of the opinion that people are either [naturally] good at pronunciation or they're not (though, like with most skills, I do think that repeated exposure and practice can potentially lead to improvement).  I taught kids way out in the boonies where hagwons don't exist and [English speaking] foreigners are exceptionally rare.  I was pleasantly surprised at how [relatively, yes] good a lot of the kids' pronunciations were.  Many were able to follow and repeat pretty darn well my way of pronouncing things.  And yes, some students did have heavier Korean accents than others. 

Some languages do not Romanize well.  Korean is one of them.  Similarly, applying the Korean way of pronouncing things onto other languages such as English generally just does not yield good results.  I'm not opposed to struggling, low English level students using hangeul because I'd rather the students participate and feel included.  But once anyone gets past the basics (whether for English or Korean or whatever), I think it's more detrimental than beneficial to continue using one's native language as a crutch. 

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #5078 on: May 09, 2018, 03:00:13 PM »

Sorry but why is it such a big deal?

These kids are never going to sound like a native speaker. They aren't native speakers.

but showing the kids the pronunciation in their own language helps them when they are first learning. It gives them something to relate to .

It also helps lower level kids to participate when they would otherwise have no chance.

I know when I first arrived I learned Hangul using English pronunciation guides.

Are you saying you didn't? You learned using only Hangul and sounds?


The difference there is there aren't any sounds in Korean that can't be represented with the Roman alphabet, whereas there are sounds in English that can't be represented with Hangul. It's fine to use Hangul as a reference to show them how to pronounce their corresponding English sounds, but for those sounds for where there is no Hangul equivalent, it's doing the students a disservice to continue to rely on Hangul for phonetic representation. If they want to use ㅋ to teach the "k" sound, fine, but using ㅍ to teach "f" is... less fine. Especially if it's drilled and/or used regularly.

It's probably also worth making the distinction between learning pronunciation at the beginning of a course, and pronunciation guides in subsequent chapters. It's probably common enough for Korean courses for English speakers to use the roman alphabet in the chapter about pronunciation. After that, though, don't most decent Korean courses use Hangul exclusively? I might be misremembering, but I'm reasonably sure all the Korean books I have use only Hangul for the vocab lists, dialogues, activities, and whatnot; they don't have the romanizations for anything. I suppose a "Learn Korean Fast!" type book geared towards tourists might continue to rely on romanizations, but the pronunciation of the people who use them probably suffers accordingly, haha.

Of course, English spelling and pronunciation rules are considerably more complex than Korean. There's certainly much more involved than could be expected to be taught in a single chapter, as can be done with Korean pronunciation. I do understand how that might increase the helpfulness of pronunciation guides written in a learner's first language, though I'd prefer it's with the understanding that it's only an approximation, and I certainly don't think it'd be a good idea for a Korean teacher to drill pronunciation based on the Hangul rather than the English. I also understand that that isn't always avoidable, since the abilities of the teachers varies significantly, but hey. That's what we're here for.  ;D
« Last Edit: May 09, 2018, 03:02:31 PM by Mister Tim »

Offline Chinguetti

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