December 12, 2018, 11:25:02 PM


Ohmyzip.com From US To Korea - $7.50 (LB)
[SHOP US, SHIP KOREA] From $7.50 (1LB) + $1.74 per pound only! Use the Ohmyzip U.S. a tax-free state address as your shipping address at checkout. Sign up now to get a 10% off coupon on shipping. <Freight Forwarding Service / Courier Service>
http://www.ohmyzip.com/

Author Topic: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation  (Read 54397 times)

Offline ame

  • Super Waygook
  • ***
  • Posts: 338
Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #80 on: April 19, 2011, 12:39:48 PM »
Personally I couldn't care about the lack of alcohol, I've noticed there are far too many people who treat this job as an extension of college. Grow up, suck it in and if you don't like the rules leave.

Do you care about being treated like a child?

Do you care about acting like one?

Perhaps you should stamp your foot.  That'll really get the point across.

Offline seanerd

  • Newgookin
  • Posts: 3
  • Gender: Male
Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #81 on: April 19, 2011, 12:47:11 PM »
Over the past 5 years, GEPIK has tried to hold up an image of professionalism. Past GEPIK orientations have nad too many instances that have hurt that image. They spend a lot of money to book a venue (including places for us to sleep, food to eat, lecture halls) and have rooms trashed, lectures empty, due to the mususe of alcohol. Many of this venues have not asked GEPIK back due to such behavior.

The ban of alcohol is to protect their investment. If they are not selling it, distributing it, or allowing it in the rooms, GEPIK will not be held directly responsible if teachers break the rules and bring alcohol on the site.

Once again, GEPIK works very hard to give us the best possible lecturers and  best experience as possible. I agree that it is within their rights to create an environment that fits the image they want to promote. After all, they are paying for it.

Now to those who can't live without alcohol for a day and a half, my advice is this. Remember why you are here. Be responsible. and Don't get caught.

Offline richarquis

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 120
  • Gender: Male
Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #82 on: April 19, 2011, 12:51:37 PM »
Having watched firsthand the amazing stupidity and disrespect shown by some at these orientations, I'm not surprised. At one of the courses in Gyeongju in 2009, some people thought, during an already noisy party on the 1st night (held on the 2nd floor of a hotel, audible from the 7th, by private guests who, with their very young children, were trying to sleep) that it would be amusing to set off the fire extinguishers inside the hotel room. Seconds later, an entire room was covered in several inches of white foam. The co-ordinators became aware of the situation very quickly, cleared the room of revelers, and rounded up the culprits. The culprits were sent home first thing in the morning, with a letter from the co-ordinators, to explain themselves to their principals. As far as I know, they were fired immediately, but that's just hearsay. Whatever the case, embarrassing at the least, and quite likely career-damaging. The hotel staff had to spend 2-3 hours cleaning the foam from the room.

Soooooo... This is the kind of crap that these people have had to deal with. Maybe you, OP, or others who sympathize, do not resort to this level of behaviour, and resent being tarred with the same brush. Fair enough. But it's also fair, from their perspective, that they shouldn't have to spend their time babysitting the kinds of people who do act as such. And it's also fair that responsible teachers shouldn't be having their reputations questioned because of a few dunderheads.

Offline cannjo83

  • Explorer
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Gender: Male
Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #83 on: April 19, 2011, 12:54:31 PM »
I'm kind of on both sides of the fence here:
As an education major and aspiring teacher of my subject area I really am interested in learning the different techniques and tools available at the orientation to help me become a better teacher.
On the other hand, I've heard so many stories from friends about how much fun they had partying with the other teachers they met at orientation. In no way am I saying it should be cool to abuse alcohol while on a business trip, but banning it does kind of dull the experience for those who know how to conduct themselves professionally.

Offline justanotherwaygook

  • Featured Contributor
  • The Legend
  • ***
  • Posts: 3903
  • Gender: Male
Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #84 on: April 19, 2011, 01:06:33 PM »
Having watched firsthand the amazing stupidity and disrespect shown by some at these orientations, I'm not surprised. At one of the courses in Gyeongju in 2009, some people thought, during an already noisy party on the 1st night (held on the 2nd floor of a hotel, audible from the 7th, by private guests who, with their very young children, were trying to sleep) that it would be amusing to set off the fire extinguishers inside the hotel room. Seconds later, an entire room was covered in several inches of white foam. The co-ordinators became aware of the situation very quickly, cleared the room of revelers, and rounded up the culprits. The culprits were sent home first thing in the morning, with a letter from the co-ordinators, to explain themselves to their principals. As far as I know, they were fired immediately, but that's just hearsay. Whatever the case, embarrassing at the least, and quite likely career-damaging. The hotel staff had to spend 2-3 hours cleaning the foam from the room.

Soooooo... This is the kind of crap that these people have had to deal with. Maybe you, OP, or others who sympathize, do not resort to this level of behaviour, and resent being tarred with the same brush. Fair enough. But it's also fair, from their perspective, that they shouldn't have to spend their time babysitting the kinds of people who do act as such. And it's also fair that responsible teachers shouldn't be having their reputations questioned because of a few dunderheads.

I find this to be one of the most level-headed posts here.  I think it's just an unfortunate situation all around. 

I almost wish that this could just be daytime training over a few days.  But I know the logistics (being so spread out geographically, amount of material to be covered) require an overnight session.
C is for cookie, that's good enough for me.

Offline Davey

  • Moderator - LVL 3
  • Hero of Waygookistan
  • *
  • Posts: 1802
  • Gender: Male
Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #85 on: April 19, 2011, 01:13:14 PM »
Some of you guys are bickering--please stop it, and focus on the topic.

Thanks!
------------------------------------------
Search this site using Google by typing, "site:waygook.org [search term]," especially during peak hours. Alternatively, use the site's search function.

EPIK: VISA, RENEWING, PENSION, ETC:

http://waygook.org/index.php/topic,2614.0.html

Offline singletrackmind

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 192
  • Gender: Male
Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #86 on: April 19, 2011, 02:06:04 PM »

What I don't get is why they just don't fire those few who do.
At my last two orientations, it was quite a lot more than a few.  There were easily over 100 people acting like idiots every night and morning of the orientation.  And to those who say this is treating us as children, well it seemed to me that a large number of the teachers were acting exactly like children.  It's so embarrassing as a foreigner to be compared to a lot of these other individuals.

Offline Denevius

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 143
  • Gender: Male
Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #87 on: April 19, 2011, 02:06:33 PM »
so just to get this straight:

1) gepik already understands there's a certain lack of competence in their hiring process which is why a handful of people who come in and overdrink requires them to ban alcohol at orientation.

2) their decision seems totally wrong-headed, as what they're basically doing is passing off the problem to the schools. people who can't behave at orientation probably won't be able to behave once they've gone off from orientation. and i'm sure most have met people who obviously can't handle the responsibility of the whole work thing.

3) since gepik is the company doing the actual hiring, shouldn't it be their job to also put up with the headache of potential problems of native teachers? yes, it may cause them additional work, but if they were doing their job better in the beginning when they hired these people, maybe they'd have fewer instances of the kind being described.

having said that, alcohol is everywhere in korea. one thing they won't be able to stop people from doing is drinking. and if they are totally strict about dismissing anyone and everyone who they find having a drink, they'll probably accomplish more losing good teachers than finding the bad ones. it ain't gonna be easy to tell people in their late 20s, 30s, and 40s that they can't drink. or it'll be about as easy as telling koreans of the same age group, considering how people here social drink to the level they do.

ultimately, in a new environment, it is a great way to lower the many defenses that's gonna be there at orientation.

Offline Burndog

  • Super Waygook
  • ***
  • Posts: 418
  • Gender: Male
Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #88 on: April 19, 2011, 02:23:23 PM »
I think that it's more to do with the media than it is to with Native English Teachers. 

Last year there was an article in one of the Korean newspapers that described GEPIK Orientations as being a three day party of booze and debauchary sponsored by the Korean taxpayer.  Predictably this means that in order to be seen to be clean, the organisation must demand that teachers do not drink at Orientation.

Never forget that as a Public School teacher your salary is paid by the taxpayer...and as an extension...your training is funded by the taxpayer too.  The first hint of media scandal and these organisations take whatever steps they deem necessary in order to maintain their public image.  When the article came out last year, there was a good chance that the entire Orientation program would be scrapped.

I think it's much better to have an Orientation, and meet some new people, hopefully learn one or two new things...and not drink....than it would be to have no Orientation at all.  But that's just my humble opinion.  It's a shame that the person who wrote the "expose'" chose to go over the top and fabricate a certain number of examples and quotes...but I can understand why it's made GEPIK a little gunshy.  It's always worth remembering that things are much bigger than you...this isn't about you...and your need to have a beer or two after work.

Offline hunterst

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 120
  • Gender: Male
Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #89 on: April 19, 2011, 02:41:21 PM »
I'm disappointed because I want to meet new people.  While I can obviously meet new people without drinking, it is much easier and quicker to meet them while drinking.  This is doubly disappointing considering Korea's drinking culture.  It's funny that people bring up professionalism, drinking after meetings, especially after meeting new clients or workers, is how business operates here.  By drinking we would be professional.  I've been in Korea for 7 months, I doubt that I will learn much of anything here, I'll keep an open mind, but this might have been helpful at the start.  I'm so tired of people worrying about other foreigners behaviour, as if we all directly represent each other.  We don't, my actions are mine, and yours are yours.  The Korean peope are smart enough to know this as well, thoose that would point to some drunken waygook to blame the rest already have a bad image of us and want a scapegoat.  I have not really encountered this drunken foreigner sterotype that people talk about, I doubt that it is that prevalent.  Most Koreans really don't care about us one way or the other.  Get too drunk if you want to, it won't make me angry, or make me look bad.

Offline tfuller

  • Super Waygook
  • ***
  • Posts: 371
  • Gender: Male
Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #90 on: April 19, 2011, 02:51:02 PM »
"Iíve been talking to a friend who spent a lot of time abroad, and who used to drink with some of the English teachers and expat community in South Korea. Her theory is that something about being in a foreign country Ė a place where you donít really have that many ties Ė makes people act irresponsibly, especially with regards to alcohol. She says that somewhere in the back of your mind, you just know that the consequences of your actions arenít going to follow you home or stick with you for life in the way that they would if you did this stuff in your hometown."

http://peripateticpedagogue.wordpress.com/2010/12/07/tlg-drama/

Offline NZ4Life

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 114
  • Gender: Male
Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #91 on: April 19, 2011, 03:08:29 PM »
  [...] my actions are mine, and yours are yours.  The Korean peope are smart enough to know this as well, thoose that would point to some drunken waygook to blame the rest already have a bad image of us and want a scapegoat.  I have not really encountered this drunken foreigner sterotype that people talk about, I doubt that it is that prevalent.  Most Koreans really don't care about us one way or the other."
it's funny because almost everything you said is probably the opposite of how things "really are". how long have you been here again? are you aware you are living in one the most homogeneous populations in the world?

moreover, westerners drinking with other westerners with western values are NOT practicing Korean "business" and you know it. Korean males do it in "business" because they have a hard time expressing themselves (although yes, they also do it to unwind,); we may do it for similar reasons but to say we're practicing Korean values when we get together is utter bull.
________________

"the fault dear Brutus is not in our stars but in ourselves [...]"

Offline dwebsterlfc

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 153
  • Gender: Male
Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #92 on: April 19, 2011, 03:14:50 PM »
I can't believe this topic has had 5 pages worth of replies. I love drinking as much as the next person but how hard is it to have a few days off and then just organise to go out with every1 the following weekend?

Offline sunsengbu

  • Waygookin
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Gender: Male
Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #93 on: April 19, 2011, 03:24:26 PM »
I think the alcoholics are going to bring their own stash.  People will still have a chance to netowrk behind closed doors.  Who knows, people may flood into the gym during after conference hours~~ get a runner's high or something, I don't know. 

Offline hunterst

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 120
  • Gender: Male
Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #94 on: April 19, 2011, 03:31:34 PM »
  [...] my actions are mine, and yours are yours.  The Korean peope are smart enough to know this as well, thoose that would point to some drunken waygook to blame the rest already have a bad image of us and want a scapegoat.  I have not really encountered this drunken foreigner sterotype that people talk about, I doubt that it is that prevalent.  Most Koreans really don't care about us one way or the other."
it's funny because almost everything you said is probably the opposite of how things "really are". how long have you been here again? are you aware you are living in one the most homogeneous populations in the world?

moreover, westerners drinking with other westerners with western values are NOT practicing Korean "business" and you know it. Korean males do it in "business" because they have a hard time expressing themselves (although yes, they also do it to unwind,); we may do it for similar reasons but to say we're practicing Korean values when we get together is utter bull.

Are you so sure.  You must have a pretty low opinion of the Koean's people to think that they can not tell the actions of an indvidual and a group apart.  The Koreans I know have no prolme doing this.  Furthermore why are yo so concerned about what they think anyways?  Why is is it bull?  What do I do when I'm drinking at school dnners? Is it that intrinsically differnt than what I do with my western friends?

Offline atmosphere

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 82
  • Gender: Male
Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #95 on: April 19, 2011, 03:37:42 PM »
"Iíve been talking to a friend who spent a lot of time abroad, and who used to drink with some of the English teachers and expat community in South Korea. Her theory is that something about being in a foreign country Ė a place where you donít really have that many ties Ė makes people act irresponsibly, especially with regards to alcohol. She says that somewhere in the back of your mind, you just know that the consequences of your actions arenít going to follow you home or stick with you for life in the way that they would if you did this stuff in your hometown."

http://peripateticpedagogue.wordpress.com/2010/12/07/tlg-drama/
I completely disagree and think the opposite is true.

I have no problems getting absolutely smashed when I'm in England. Generally, I can do what I want (to a reasonable extent) and talk my way out of it since I'm (obviously) familiar with culture and custom in England, so I know what will and won't offend someone.

Here, in Korea, I'm a lot more humble and respectful. I wouldn't dare get TOO drunk - I'm scared of getting deported haha.

Offline elzoog

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 593
  • Gender: Male
Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #96 on: April 19, 2011, 03:38:06 PM »
So many things to say...

Frankly, I'm with the camp that believes there shouldn't be any restrictions. All the new teachers are adults and presumably can control themselves. Curfews and alcohol bans definitely makes one feel like a child (and perhaps people will act more like children if that's how they are treated).

It's not about treating, or not treating people like children.   The reason we have laws is that people cause problems.   We have laws against murder because people murder and that causes problems.   We don't have laws against eating pepperoni pizza because although people eat pepperoni pizza, doing so doesn't usually cause a problem.   We don't for example say, that since you are an adult, you are responsible enough to decide for yourself whether murder is okay or not.

Similarly, the reason GEPIK has a rule about no alcohol, is that people were causing problems.  Maybe you in particular, don't cause problems, but there is no way that GEPIK could know that, even by reading this board. 

So basically, here is the problem

P) People go to an orientation, get drunk and become unruly.

One solution to P is to not allow alcohol at the orientation.   If you can think of a different way of solving P that is actually feasible, let's hear it.


Quote
For those who show up late the next day or appear hungover a written warning could be given. Three warnings could result in being fired For those who get totally inebriated and cause a scene, fire them and send them back home immediately. This would weed out the bad apples fairly quickly.

It's possible these NETs were fired when they caused trouble.   I'm sure it's possible.  Don't know how feasible it is because the public school is expecting a native teacher and doesn't want to not have one.

Quote
Furthermore, if this sort of binge drinking and partying is such a problem every single orientation, perhaps GEPIK (and other MOE/POEs) should be looking at the quality of people they hire. Increase the requirements (at least a certification) and you'll weed out a decent number of people who are only here to party and replace them with people who actually have interest in teaching.

The requirements are already, a bachelor's degree.   Which places the NET in the top 20% in his country as far as his education.   Adding to that, the requirement of a certification would weed them out, how exactly?


Offline jchoi911

  • Adventurer
  • *
  • Posts: 68
  • Gender: Male
Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #97 on: April 19, 2011, 03:49:13 PM »
The GEPIK orientation is only 3 days...
"So you're not allowed to drink for 3 days :o WHOAAAAAAA ...that's insane,
that leaves you 360......wait ... :-[
I am a little drunk, so my brain is not functioning that well - :-\
....
that leaves you 362 days to drink your ass off  ;D

I think anyone should be able to go without alcohol for 3 days - otherwise you should check yourself into AA (not sure if there is such a support group in Korea for it - so, as a safe bet, you should fly home instead)


That orientation is considered part of your working hours - you are still getting paid for it - I don't think it's unreasonable for an employer (The boss) to have restrictions on their employees while they're still under their payroll.

Maybe I'm being CRAZY  :o 
back home -
when my boss tells me to do something, I do it
when my boss tells me not to do something, I sure as hell won't.
But why did i still do it when he's infringing my rights as a human being.  >:(

Because I don't want to get fired....
CRAZY Principle isn't it? ::)

GEPIK technically could get you fired :)

Offline elzoog

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 593
  • Gender: Male
Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #98 on: April 19, 2011, 03:55:13 PM »
It's always worth remembering that things are much bigger than you...this isn't about you...and your need to have a beer or two after work.

I agree with every word of that sentence.

When Mr. Swirl was caught and Korea decided to change the requirements to needing an apostilled background check I didn't interpret that to mean that they are treating me as a pedophile.   I interpreted it as, Korea does not have an infallible method of determining who is, or isn't one, and is doing the best they can to not have another Mr. Swirl in their midst.

No system for trying to determine this is perfect.  You get some pedophiles in the American education system as well even though they also require a fingerprint check. 

Similarly, you probably also get some teachers in America who get drunk and act unruly.  In fact, I think there is a rule against having alcohol on the premises of American public schools.   I guess the American system also, treats their teachers like children too.

The best way to change the rule is, don't act drunk and unruly.   If every foreigner did that, then GEPIK might think that maybe NETs in general don't act drunk and unruly.  Then they would be more open to the suggestion of allowing alcohol.

In other words, if you want to be treated like a responsible adult, act like a responsible adult.


Offline elzoog

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 593
  • Gender: Male
Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #99 on: April 19, 2011, 04:04:39 PM »
The GEPIK orientation is only 3 days...
"So you're not allowed to drink for 3 days :o WHOAAAAAAA ...that's insane,
that leaves you 360......wait ... :-[
I am a little drunk, so my brain is not functioning that well - :-\
....
that leaves you 362 days to drink your ass off  ;D

No JChoi you don't understand.

3 days = 72 hours = 4,320 minutes = 259,200 seconds

259,200 is a pretty big number.   If I had 259,200 bottles of Pepsi, this would be enough Pepsi to last me about 710 years (assuming I drank a bottle a day).  In fact, if I had 259,200 of any food item at all, that would easily feed me for the rest of my life.

So you see, in fact 3 days is a long time to go without alcohol.

This may seem like a stupid argument, but it is actually smarter than the other arguments for drinking at orientation presented here.   At least, I actually used mathematics.