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Author Topic: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation  (Read 53552 times)

Offline cruisemonkey

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #160 on: April 20, 2011, 04:40:53 PM »
Under that interpretation I should get overtime.  Overtime is a whopping 7,000won/her (for non-teaching hours).  Under that theory, since I am under their direct control (as opposed to my normal life in which I still conduct myself in a reputable manner 24/7), I should be paid from 10am Monday to 11am Wednesday.  That's 49 hours.  Subtract my normal 24 hours (8/day).  I should get 25 hours of overtime, or 175,000 won.

The clause in your contract that specifies W7,000/hr. for non-instructional overtime is null and void because it does not meet the minimum under the Korean Labor Standards Act.

You should get 25 hours of overtime at 1.5 times your regular rate of pay.
 
The Ks once gave me five minutes notice. I didn't know what to do with the extra time.

Offline eigenfuzzy

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #161 on: April 20, 2011, 04:52:01 PM »
Some of this has been said before, but I doubt all of it, so here it goes:

The reason the rule exists is because of previous incidents where a bunch of kids right out of college continued to act like a bunch of kids right out of college.  The first ban on drinking at orientation happened a couple of years ago due to a bunch of irresponsible individuals creating serious problems.  When I went to orientation last October, drinking was allowed again--but no soju.  Guess what?  Despite clearly marked (and plentiful) trashcans and signs IN ENGLISH, the grounds were a mess the next day.  The people who were hired to help do administrative tasks must have felt like babysitters when they politely asked people to go to their rooms at the time mentioned on the schedule--12am.  Many people just moved to another location, drank more, and did anything they could to NOT go to bed like responsible adults at a decent hour.  The administrative babysitting team had to continue to cajole a nontrivial number of holdouts to get the hell in bed. 

Now, this year alcohol is not allowed again.  This is NOT because of the majority of individuals who can act responsibly, but because of a smaller but shockingly large contingent of people who simply would not act responsibly.  GEPIK has banned alcohol before, let it return but in a more controlled manner, and now has made the (in my opinion) right decision to get rid of it again.  It's only three days (actually, closer to 48 hours) so put on your proverbial big-girl panties and deal with it.

Offline Mitchell

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #162 on: April 22, 2011, 10:32:47 AM »
9 full pages on this topic. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Offline jrwhite82

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #163 on: April 22, 2011, 10:37:55 AM »
9 full pages on this topic. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

But one page worth is just people remarking on how many pages this thread is.

Offline thepeoplestrust

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #164 on: April 22, 2011, 10:47:48 AM »
I don't know if this has already been said in previous posts but my co-teacher is currently on the training/orientation for Korean co-teachers. In light of this thread I asked her if there was alcohol available to them and she said no. It would appear that the policy of no-alcohol at orientation does not discriminate against foreign teachers. Even the Korean teachers are no longer allowed to drink on orientation. You cannot get fairer than that.

Offline justanotherwaygook

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #165 on: April 22, 2011, 11:07:54 AM »
I don't know if this has already been said in previous posts but my co-teacher is currently on the training/orientation for Korean co-teachers. In light of this thread I asked her if there was alcohol available to them and she said no. It would appear that the policy of no-alcohol at orientation does not discriminate against foreign teachers. Even the Korean teachers are no longer allowed to drink on orientation. You cannot get fairer than that.

Overnight?

Banned or not available?
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Offline thepeoplestrust

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #166 on: April 22, 2011, 11:12:50 AM »
I don't know if this has already been said in previous posts but my co-teacher is currently on the training/orientation for Korean co-teachers. In light of this thread I asked her if there was alcohol available to them and she said no. It would appear that the policy of no-alcohol at orientation does not discriminate against foreign teachers. Even the Korean teachers are no longer allowed to drink on orientation. You cannot get fairer than that.

Overnight?

Banned or not available?

It's a two night training session in a facility near Bundang. I will check with her but I would think it is not available and the only way to get any would be to leave the premises. If the facility is anything like the one used for training the 2nd year+ NTs last December, it is likely to be located in the middle of nowhere.

Offline NMonk

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #167 on: April 22, 2011, 12:07:58 PM »
All the more reason to allow alcohol.

Allow us responsible ones to have a pleasant time and weed out the irresponsible ones (under penalty of firing).

agreed
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Offline Yu_Bumsuk

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #168 on: April 22, 2011, 12:44:09 PM »
I don't know if this has already been said in previous posts but my co-teacher is currently on the training/orientation for Korean co-teachers. In light of this thread I asked her if there was alcohol available to them and she said no. It would appear that the policy of no-alcohol at orientation does not discriminate against foreign teachers. Even the Korean teachers are no longer allowed to drink on orientation. You cannot get fairer than that.

Overnight?

Banned or not available?

It's a two night training session in a facility near Bundang. I will check with her but I would think it is not available and the only way to get any would be to leave the premises. If the facility is anything like the one used for training the 2nd year+ NTs last December, it is likely to be located in the middle of nowhere.

I'm guessing no one cares if they bring along some beer to drink while they play poker *in their own* hotel rooms.

Offline ne0ica

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #169 on: April 22, 2011, 01:14:07 PM »
Guys,

Maybe some of you should be asking yourself why this is so important to you. Seriously, can no English teacher last a day or two without a drink in Korea.

Offline rahzel

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #170 on: April 22, 2011, 01:29:17 PM »
Some of this has been said before, but I doubt all of it, so here it goes:

The reason the rule exists is because of previous incidents where a bunch of kids right out of college continued to act like a bunch of kids right out of college.  The first ban on drinking at orientation happened a couple of years ago due to a bunch of irresponsible individuals creating serious problems.  When I went to orientation last October, drinking was allowed again--but no soju.  Guess what?  Despite clearly marked (and plentiful) trashcans and signs IN ENGLISH, the grounds were a mess the next day.  The people who were hired to help do administrative tasks must have felt like babysitters when they politely asked people to go to their rooms at the time mentioned on the schedule--12am.  Many people just moved to another location, drank more, and did anything they could to NOT go to bed like responsible adults at a decent hour.  The administrative babysitting team had to continue to cajole a nontrivial number of holdouts to get the hell in bed. 

Now, this year alcohol is not allowed again.  This is NOT because of the majority of individuals who can act responsibly, but because of a smaller but shockingly large contingent of people who simply would not act responsibly.  GEPIK has banned alcohol before, let it return but in a more controlled manner, and now has made the (in my opinion) right decision to get rid of it again.  It's only three days (actually, closer to 48 hours) so put on your proverbial big-girl panties and deal with it.

I've noticed that the majority of ESL teachers didn't drink or get their "drinking license" like a normal person would - in college. They go all out and look like fools once they come to Korea.

Offline ne0ica

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #171 on: April 22, 2011, 01:37:04 PM »
Some of my friends here in their early 30's appear to have reverted to their college drinking day habits. Korea appears to give westerners a licence to revert to behaving like teenagers again.

Offline n00b

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #172 on: April 22, 2011, 03:52:33 PM »
Wow.

There's been a whole lot of name calling, hyperbole, repetition, and poor English bouncing around on this thread, and even though I'm a n00b (note the name), I feel like I should say something in defense of my fresh-from-college cohorts and our displeasure with this new policy. First, though, let's clear some other things up:

1. We have rights; drinking at our paid and required orientation is not one of them.
2. There is a double standard pertaining to our treatment re alcohol consumption at training events. This should not come as a surprise to anyone who has been here for longer than a week.
3. Some people cause problems, some don't. This does not really have much to do with age or experience.
4. GEPIK orientation, from this humble American's experience, is often poorly scheduled, inadequately staffed, and all around unhelpful.
5. Many of us are immature, inexperienced, and here for various reasons that have little to do with teaching. This is largely GEPIK's fault.
6. Many of us (regardless of age, maturity, or experience) really suck at English enough to make us suck as English teachers.

With that settled, let's get on to why I think I have a right to be bummed about a dry orientation.

I've only been here seven months, but my school is suggesting that I might need to go to another orientation a couple of months before the end of my contract. That's ridiculous. My first orientation, which came too late as to be helpful, only reiterated things I had already learned, either on the job or just existing in Korea. The most valuable experiences I had at that orientation came after the lectures and required play-time on the schedule. Sure, I got hammered drunk. But, as those here who consume on the regular know, it's usually not the professional drinkers who get out of control at sanctioned drinking events; it's those teetotalers who don't know their boundaries, the people who say "I don't usually drink, but what could it hurt?" who end up defecating from a flagpole at 2 A.M.

Sorry. I got off topic. What I was trying to say, before my inner alcoholic interrupted to defend himself, was that the evening festivities were where I really learned some stuff. It was the time when we all let our guards down for a little, met new people, talked shop, traded stories. It was by far the most valuable time spent during those two and a half days. Would it have happened if we hadn't been drinking? Of course, to a certain extent. But I doubt many of us would have gotten as much out of it if we hadn't been at least a little socially lubed. Also, let the record show that this drunk stayed up 'til five, didn't cause any trouble, and made it to every required lecture on time. And he participated 'n stuff.

OK, I've wasted far too much of your time (although if you made it this far in the thread, you obviously have plenty of time to waste), so I'll finish up my rant. It's true that, while we may not want to, we do represent our home countries and NETs as a whole. It's not really up to us. Complaining about it is like when professional athletes say that they don't want to be seen as role models. They are. It's part of the job. So we've got to deal with that. And those news stories about GEPIK being some sort of western bacchanalia make the PR issue pretty clear. GEPIK has to deal with that. What I'm really getting at is this: we don't have a right to drink at orientation, but we have a right to be bummed that we can't.

Peace

Offline Yu_Bumsuk

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #173 on: April 22, 2011, 03:55:18 PM »
Guys,

Maybe some of you should be asking yourself why this is so important to you. Seriously, can no English teacher last a day or two without a drink in Korea.

It's a very simple matter of principle: I do not want to work for an employer who tells me what perfectly legal activities I can and can't do outside work hours. Let's say that they banned exercise. Fine, I can go two or three days without working out or jogging and often do. But their mere act of telling me what to do AFTER training sessions are over would make me feel like getting my own hotel room so I could go for a jog after every day of training.

If they want to tell me what I can and can't do 24 hours a day then pay me for 24 hours a day. If not then bugger off out of my life when training's over.


Offline Yu_Bumsuk

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #174 on: April 22, 2011, 03:56:55 PM »
1. We have rights; drinking at our paid and required orientation is not one of them.

No, actually doing what legal activities we like in our unpaid time is in fact one of our rights.

Offline RatnaMH

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #175 on: April 22, 2011, 04:05:11 PM »
Let me just reiterate....

Why is socializing and drinking hand in hand these?

Why is this "lube* even necessary to facilitate people getting together and talking?

Whatever happened to people coming together because of other social *lubes* like mutual interests, survival etc?

Maybe this is the way the world works now  I suppose...


Offline n00b

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #176 on: April 22, 2011, 04:11:40 PM »
1. We have rights; drinking at our paid and required orientation is not one of them.

No, actually doing what legal activities we like in our unpaid time is in fact one of our rights.

Listen,

I don't think I'm being too unreasonable. For one, someone earlier said that his school paid him overtime for going on his orientation. Maybe yours would do the same if you asked them. Maybe mine would, too.

I'm all for protecting the rights that we deserve, but in addition to paying for our working hours during the trip, GEPIK is also supplying meals, transportation, and accommodation. They don't have the right to tell us not to drink, but they have the right to restrict us from drinking in what are, legally, their rooms. I don't want to get into the whole thing about not letting us leave (especially since it was a total non-issue for me; my orientation was out in the middle of nowhere), but if they pay for the rooms and for our stay at the resort/hotel, I'm pretty sure they have a say in what we do there. I'm not a lawyer, though, so maybe I'm wrong.

Enough of this, though. Let's stop arguing about drinking and actually do it. It's Friday.

Offline Yu_Bumsuk

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #177 on: April 22, 2011, 04:31:56 PM »
1. We have rights; drinking at our paid and required orientation is not one of them.

No, actually doing what legal activities we like in our unpaid time is in fact one of our rights.

Listen,

I don't think I'm being too unreasonable. For one, someone earlier said that his school paid him overtime for going on his orientation. Maybe yours would do the same if you asked them. Maybe mine would, too.

I'm all for protecting the rights that we deserve, but in addition to paying for our working hours during the trip, GEPIK is also supplying meals, transportation, and accommodation. They don't have the right to tell us not to drink, but they have the right to restrict us from drinking in what are, legally, their rooms. I don't want to get into the whole thing about not letting us leave (especially since it was a total non-issue for me; my orientation was out in the middle of nowhere), but if they pay for the rooms and for our stay at the resort/hotel, I'm pretty sure they have a say in what we do there. I'm not a lawyer, though, so maybe I'm wrong.

Enough of this, though. Let's stop arguing about drinking and actually do it. It's Friday.

I've still got time to kill until my evening (yes, Friday evening) class starts. So, this is not the military and we are not on duty. If they want to drag people out somewhere then of course they need to provide accomodation. What happens inside that accomodation is none of their business, just like what I do in my own house (which my school owns) is none of my school's business. Of course, some teachers abuse such things. I knew of one English camp teacher who started smashing the furniture in his own apartment for kicks. Yes, he was very, very drunk. However, that doesn't mean that the school district can impose an alcohol ban inside my house. In fact, they can't even enter without my permission.

Offline justanotherwaygook

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #178 on: April 22, 2011, 04:33:32 PM »
I don't want to get into the whole thing about not letting us leave

Well, see, that's the thing...
C is for cookie, that's good enough for me.

Offline adamwatch

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #179 on: April 22, 2011, 04:36:53 PM »
You must remember that "Democracy" is less than 30 years old here. They (the Koreans) are used to be told what to do.

Adam