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Author Topic: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation  (Read 53547 times)

Offline NZ4Life

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #120 on: April 20, 2011, 08:29:30 AM »
I love you guys who have no problem with this. You have no idea how insulting they're being to you by KOREAN standards. It must be so nice to be so blissfully ignorant.

This thread is a good example of why I avoid any waygook PS stuff like the plague. To be treated like a child is one thing but to do so with a bunch of people who are happy to be treated like children is another.

I agree.  The POLICE do the same thing in my home country.  I mean, I'm an even better driver when I drive drunk.  I make sure to go slower and obey stop signs and traffic lights.  But get this....they say it's against the rules and I'll be punished if I get caught!!!!  WTH?!?!  I don't know how other idiots in my home country can stand to agree with these FACIST policies.  It is totally an infringement on my human rights.  That's why I came to Korea.  To get away from this police state.  And then to hear that GEPIK is also treating its employees like SLAVES!  This is an outrage. 

/sarcasm off

Are you really so witless or do you just tend to show the same level or responsibility sitting in a hotel room as you would behind the wheel of a car?

Have you ever been on a staff retreat or workshop with Korean teachers? I'm guessing not. Here's what happens: after a long boring meeting every pigs out and breaks out the soju and beer. Then the guys take off to a noraebang / rooms salon and return to the hotel for a few more rounds. Someone breaks out the cards and the poker carries on perhaps all night while other teachers just pass out where they were sitting. The next morning everyone catches up on sleep on the bus or at any pointless morning meeting. This is usually mostly or all paid for with school money and is as much a bonding experience as anything else.

No booze, no gambling, and a curfew are what happens on a high school trip to Jejudo ... IF the homeroom teachers are really anal and can be arsed to enforce such rules. 'Cool' teachers might turn a blind eye or even let their students have a shot or two. But I'm guessing the GEPIK handlers won't be quite so cool with their adult charges.

I wonder if they'll make you kneel in a row and hold your hands up in their air if you're late for morning meetings?
EVERYONE knows this.

thing is though.... WE ARE NOT KOREAN. i like how some ppl like to cherry pick which Korean standards they want to live by. ppl love it when certain Korean standards yeild to their sense of western individuality but haaaaaaate it when they threaten it by even the least bit. yeah you're right, KTs pig out, soju/sing the night away, and play poker after a long meeting. what they DON'T do however is set off fire extinguishers, yell "F*CK KOREA" at the top of the hotel, or start fights with locals (although they will fight within their circle.) THAT'S the difference. i love to booze as much as anyone else, but if a ban means making sure embarassing things like this don't happen then i'm all for it.

it's TWO AND A HALF DAYS. GET OVER YOURSELVES. or do you really need a beer that bad to have a good time?
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Offline NZ4Life

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #121 on: April 20, 2011, 08:31:30 AM »
I'm of the opinion that having a job is more important than getting tipsy on a school night.

this.
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Offline mmaurer2004

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #122 on: April 20, 2011, 08:47:22 AM »

it's TWO AND A HALF DAYS. GET OVER YOURSELVES. or do you really need a beer that bad to have a good time?

Kudos to that.  And are you familiar with the term LUSH?

Offline flasyb

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #123 on: April 20, 2011, 09:03:12 AM »
Quote
Have you ever been on a staff retreat or workshop with Korean teachers? I'm guessing not. Here's what happens: after a long boring meeting every pigs out and breaks out the soju and beer. Then the guys take off to a noraebang / rooms salon and return to the hotel for a few more rounds. Someone breaks out the cards and the poker carries on perhaps all night while other teachers just pass out where they were sitting. The next morning everyone catches up on sleep on the bus or at any pointless morning meeting. This is usually mostly or all paid for with school money and is as much a bonding experience as anything else.

You missed the bit about Koreans not turning up to work after drinking, setting off fire extinguishers, trashing rooms and ruining the reputation of Korean teachers in Korea....Oh yeah, doesn't happen. I see your attitude as being, "OOOOOO Korean teachers drink after meetings and at dinners so we should be allowed to drink at GEPIK orientation too. It's not fair! They drink until we pass out so why aren't we allowed to? It's discrimination. I'm a baby. I want I want I want. maaaaaaaaaaa!"

I think the orientation organisers are smart enough to realise that if they allow booze, some people will get wrecked. It has probably happened year after year so the best way to deal with it is a blanket ban on booze. It's not the end of the world, it's not an ideal solution for everyone but if it helps with the negative reporting of foreign teachers in the media then I'm all in favour. There will be plenty of opportunities to get as smashed as Korean teachers do at other times. It's two and a half days. They have good reasons. Get over it!
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Offline shmoogrin

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #124 on: April 20, 2011, 09:11:07 AM »
I was at the EPIK orientation last year and there was too much partying, drinking, coming in late (and noisy) and people not going to sessions.  They will not really fire anyone for this behaviour, but why not put the threat where it matters.  If people miss sessions just dock their pay, say one day's pay per class missed?  Then the party people might pay attention and lay off a bit for a few days at least.

Offline Vincent

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #125 on: April 20, 2011, 09:50:07 AM »
Part of me thinks that throwing a couple hundred people together from loads of different backgrounds and  without any social lubricant is a dumb idea  - especially for 3 days.

But there are well justified reasons for having the no alcohol too. If you can't handle 3 days meh !

I've done 2 orientations at this stage , first was very frat house but then again I made no bones about having a beer with dinner, a single one  - not drinking all evening stylee.

The second one was a much more relaxed affair  - shorter duration and less of the frat house antics. Most people just wanted to get the process over with and get back to work.

I don't think it's right or fair to demand people stay on site though either, keep it working hours no holidays and concentrate the damn thing, I'd rather be teaching my kids. It's the contract we signed though so can't complain too much.

Gepik could save a packet by not making us stay overnight, doing smaller community based training workshops  i.e. get to know the teachers in your own area moreso and they'd have none of the silly waygook carry on then bar trying to maintain attendance.

Offline elzoog

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #126 on: April 20, 2011, 09:55:30 AM »
So basically, here is the problem
P) People go to an orientation, get drunk and become unruly.
One solution to P is to not allow alcohol at the orientation.   If you can think of a different way of solving P that is actually feasible, let's hear it.

Well, my suggestion was to give them a warning or fire them on the spot. Though...

It's possible these NETs were fired when they caused trouble.   I'm sure it's possible.  Don't know how feasible it is because the public school is expecting a native teacher and doesn't want to not have one.

…you're right in that their school would have to wait a long time for a replacement. So I agree now that it's definitely easier for GEPIK to just ban alcohol rather than allow it and have lots of problems.

Yeah, in general things try to find the easiest solutions.   Not just people.   Electricity for example will follow the shortest path.   If you try to get a dog to jump over a pole that's too high, the dog will prefer to walk under it instead, etc.

So GEPIK would fire people only if it's the best viable alternative.

Quote
Though hasn't alcohol been banned in the past? I'm thinking that the ban might incite certain people to drink more just to show off or protest the ban or whatever.

If they are willing to do that for something trivial like drinking, then maybe they shouldn't be teachers.

Quote
The requirements are already, a bachelor's degree.   Which places the NET in the top 20% in his country as far as his education.   Adding to that, the requirement of a certification would weed them out, how exactly?

Presumably, those with certifications would be here as professional teachers and not willing to sacrifice their professional reputation by getting totally inebriated.

The thing is, teaching in Korea does not in general, help your teaching career very much.   There are people who have taught English in Korea for 10 years that can't even get a substitute teaching job back in the states.

The reason I stay in Korea is not because I think teaching is a great career choice for me (if I thought that, I would be a high school mathematics teacher).  It's because for now, Korea offers somewhat stable employment for relatively little work.   I do however, try to challenge the students' minds, and in fact, the students hate it when I do so.   However, challenging someone's mind is supposed to be a teacher's job.

Given that teaching in Korea doesn't necessarily help your teaching career I am not 100% confident that having certification would weed out the unruly types.  You will probably get a certain percentage that can't get a teaching job at home, and come to Korea just to kill time.


Offline Yu_Bumsuk

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #127 on: April 20, 2011, 10:53:35 AM »
Quote
Have you ever been on a staff retreat or workshop with Korean teachers? I'm guessing not. Here's what happens: after a long boring meeting every pigs out and breaks out the soju and beer. Then the guys take off to a noraebang / rooms salon and return to the hotel for a few more rounds. Someone breaks out the cards and the poker carries on perhaps all night while other teachers just pass out where they were sitting. The next morning everyone catches up on sleep on the bus or at any pointless morning meeting. This is usually mostly or all paid for with school money and is as much a bonding experience as anything else.

You missed the bit about Koreans not turning up to work after drinking, setting off fire extinguishers, trashing rooms and ruining the reputation of Korean teachers in Korea....Oh yeah, doesn't happen. I see your attitude as being, "OOOOOO Korean teachers drink after meetings and at dinners so we should be allowed to drink at GEPIK orientation too. It's not fair! They drink until we pass out so why aren't we allowed to? It's discrimination. I'm a baby. I want I want I want. maaaaaaaaaaa!"

I think the orientation organisers are smart enough to realise that if they allow booze, some people will get wrecked. It has probably happened year after year so the best way to deal with it is a blanket ban on booze. It's not the end of the world, it's not an ideal solution for everyone but if it helps with the negative reporting of foreign teachers in the media then I'm all in favour. There will be plenty of opportunities to get as smashed as Korean teachers do at other times. It's two and a half days. They have good reasons. Get over it!

If they can't let foreigners act like Koreans for the sake of our reputations that's very touching, but then they should at least give people the option of finding their own accomodations. I for one would much rather pay W40,000 a night for a love hotel than have to live like I'm in a high school dormitory. I'm not in GEPIK, by the way, and based on this and a number of things I've read I hope I never am.

Offline justanotherwaygook

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #128 on: April 20, 2011, 11:00:22 AM »
Quote
Have you ever been on a staff retreat or workshop with Korean teachers? I'm guessing not. Here's what happens: after a long boring meeting every pigs out and breaks out the soju and beer. Then the guys take off to a noraebang / rooms salon and return to the hotel for a few more rounds. Someone breaks out the cards and the poker carries on perhaps all night while other teachers just pass out where they were sitting. The next morning everyone catches up on sleep on the bus or at any pointless morning meeting. This is usually mostly or all paid for with school money and is as much a bonding experience as anything else.

You missed the bit about Koreans not turning up to work after drinking, setting off fire extinguishers, trashing rooms and ruining the reputation of Korean teachers in Korea....Oh yeah, doesn't happen. I see your attitude as being, "OOOOOO Korean teachers drink after meetings and at dinners so we should be allowed to drink at GEPIK orientation too. It's not fair! They drink until we pass out so why aren't we allowed to? It's discrimination. I'm a baby. I want I want I want. maaaaaaaaaaa!"

I think the orientation organisers are smart enough to realise that if they allow booze, some people will get wrecked. It has probably happened year after year so the best way to deal with it is a blanket ban on booze. It's not the end of the world, it's not an ideal solution for everyone but if it helps with the negative reporting of foreign teachers in the media then I'm all in favour. There will be plenty of opportunities to get as smashed as Korean teachers do at other times. It's two and a half days. They have good reasons. Get over it!

If they can't let foreigners act like Koreans for the sake of our reputations that's very touching, but then they should at least give people the option of finding their own accomodations. I for one would much rather pay W40,000 a night for a love hotel than have to live like I'm in a high school dormitory. I'm not in GEPIK, by the way, and based on this and a number of things I've read I hope I never am.

Yup, I'm still a bit iffy about living with this stranger for 2 nights.  Something tells me there's no lockers.
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Offline Yu_Bumsuk

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #129 on: April 20, 2011, 11:13:25 AM »
Yup, I'm still a bit iffy about living with this stranger for 2 nights.  Something tells me there's no lockers.

Factor in say W20,000 for taxis and it would cost you about W100,000 to avoid all that hassel. If you stay at the conference hotel where they can tell you what to do for 24 hours a day that's basically 16 hours a day you're working for free. I'd rather spend W100,000 than put in 32 unpaid overtime hours.

Offline jrwhite82

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #130 on: April 20, 2011, 11:15:29 AM »
I love you guys who have no problem with this. You have no idea how insulting they're being to you by KOREAN standards. It must be so nice to be so blissfully ignorant.

This thread is a good example of why I avoid any waygook PS stuff like the plague. To be treated like a child is one thing but to do so with a bunch of people who are happy to be treated like children is another.

I agree.  The POLICE do the same thing in my home country.  I mean, I'm an even better driver when I drive drunk.  I make sure to go slower and obey stop signs and traffic lights.  But get this....they say it's against the rules and I'll be punished if I get caught!!!!  WTH?!?!  I don't know how other idiots in my home country can stand to agree with these FACIST policies.  It is totally an infringement on my human rights.  That's why I came to Korea.  To get away from this police state.  And then to hear that GEPIK is also treating its employees like SLAVES!  This is an outrage. 

/sarcasm off

Are you really so witless or do you just tend to show the same level or responsibility sitting in a hotel room as you would behind the wheel of a car?

Have you ever been on a staff retreat or workshop with Korean teachers? I'm guessing not. Here's what happens: after a long boring meeting every pigs out and breaks out the soju and beer. Then the guys take off to a noraebang / rooms salon and return to the hotel for a few more rounds. Someone breaks out the cards and the poker carries on perhaps all night while other teachers just pass out where they were sitting. The next morning everyone catches up on sleep on the bus or at any pointless morning meeting. This is usually mostly or all paid for with school money and is as much a bonding experience as anything else.

No booze, no gambling, and a curfew are what happens on a high school trip to Jejudo ... IF the homeroom teachers are really anal and can be arsed to enforce such rules. 'Cool' teachers might turn a blind eye or even let their students have a shot or two. But I'm guessing the GEPIK handlers won't be quite so cool with their adult charges.

I wonder if they'll make you kneel in a row and hold your hands up in their air if you're late for morning meetings?

Those are the rules (or lack of) that your Korean school has made.  So, these are the rules that GEPIK made.  It is not illegal.  Training is part of the job.  If you don't like training or their rules, quit or don't work for GEPIK.  Carry on with your life.  Don't go TROLLING around on an online forum looking like a crybaby. It is not good for you image bro. 

You've never been to a GEPIK orientation in your life.  You have no idea what kind of ridiculous embarrassing shananigens goes on.  So in reality (where the rest of us live), your opinion means nothing.  You say they are treating us like children....well it's because EVERY SINGLE TIME we have acted like children.  Your arguement is based on them discriminating against foreigners.  But you keep ignoring the FACT that as an entire group, we acted irresponsible, immature and rude...everytime.  So we face the consequences as a group (a nasty article and a ban on alcohol).

Sorry to all the newbies....you can thank us "wise" veterans for screwing it up for you. 

Offline jujibi

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #131 on: April 20, 2011, 11:19:55 AM »
I'm glad to hear that alcohol has been banned at the GEPIK orientations because some people have no control over themselves. The first week I arrived in Korea I had to go to one of these orientations and it was a hot mess!!! I actually was sent to an orientation for pre-existing teachers so I guess that everyone was somewhat annoyed because they had been to at least one training session before. At night there were soooo many drunks wobbling around the training site. It was like I was back in college. I heard one kid even ran into a glass door and broke his front teeth (I'm not sure if he was drunk or not though).  Another drunk guy became loud and rude when I wanted to leave the lounge area after he started harassing me.  It's only a few days, there really is no need for alcohol.

Offline jrwhite82

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #132 on: April 20, 2011, 11:37:08 AM »
Yup, I'm still a bit iffy about living with this stranger for 2 nights.  Something tells me there's no lockers.

Factor in say W20,000 for taxis and it would cost you about W100,000 to avoid all that hassel. If you stay at the conference hotel where they can tell you what to do for 24 hours a day that's basically 16 hours a day you're working for free. I'd rather spend W100,000 than put in 32 unpaid overtime hours.

Wow. I wish I had your work ethic and your job.  You work and get paid while you're sleeping!  That's rich!

Offline Yu_Bumsuk

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #133 on: April 20, 2011, 11:57:53 AM »
Those are the rules (or lack of) that your Korean school has made.  So, these are the rules that GEPIK made.  It is not illegal.  Training is part of the job.  If you don't like training or their rules, quit or don't work for GEPIK.  Carry on with your life.  Don't go TROLLING around on an online forum looking like a crybaby. It is not good for you image bro. 

You've never been to a GEPIK orientation in your life.  You have no idea what kind of ridiculous embarrassing shananigens goes on.  So in reality (where the rest of us live), your opinion means nothing.  You say they are treating us like children....well it's because EVERY SINGLE TIME we have acted like children.  Your arguement is based on them discriminating against foreigners.  But you keep ignoring the FACT that as an entire group, we acted irresponsible, immature and rude...everytime.  So we face the consequences as a group (a nasty article and a ban on alcohol).

Sorry to all the newbies....you can thank us "wise" veterans for screwing it up for you.

I've talked to many people who've been to GEPIK or EPIK orientations and one of the reason why I avoid them like the plague is the inevitable yahoos. However, I don't think that they should result in everyone else not being allowed to kick back with a few drinks in the hotel. Perhaps if they started hiring more mature people this would be less of a problem.

In any case it does nothing to change the fact that they're treating them like teenagers and in a way that's very disrespectful by both western and Korean standards.


Offline Yu_Bumsuk

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #134 on: April 20, 2011, 11:59:02 AM »
Yup, I'm still a bit iffy about living with this stranger for 2 nights.  Something tells me there's no lockers.

Factor in say W20,000 for taxis and it would cost you about W100,000 to avoid all that hassel. If you stay at the conference hotel where they can tell you what to do for 24 hours a day that's basically 16 hours a day you're working for free. I'd rather spend W100,000 than put in 32 unpaid overtime hours.

Wow. I wish I had your work ethic and your job.  You work and get paid while you're sleeping!  That's rich!

Every Korean employee gets paid for sleeping sometimes.

Offline giselle

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #135 on: April 20, 2011, 12:25:01 PM »
hmmm... I might have guessed that the post about banning of alcohol would garner 7 pages of comments in just 2 days.
Hilarious!  I don't agree with this policy, but I have to say I can't blame them.  I'm not opposed to drinking, and in fact, partake often & regularly.  And drinking is a big part of Korean culture, yes, it's true.  But what I saw at my own EPIK orientation week was a little embarrassing.  More than a few people coming in way past 'curfew' every single night, missing classes, even sneaking into the building basement and up the back stairs to avoid having to check in, and as in my own experience, all but abandoning the group lesson project to go 'hook up'.  It's only a week, and high-ranking people in the MOE are trying to get a feel for our abilities.  I just thought a little discretion & professionalism was in order.  People, you have to know when to hold 'em & know when to fold 'em is all. 

Offline NZ4Life

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #136 on: April 20, 2011, 12:26:44 PM »
Quote
Have you ever been on a staff retreat or workshop with Korean teachers? I'm guessing not. Here's what happens: after a long boring meeting every pigs out and breaks out the soju and beer. Then the guys take off to a noraebang / rooms salon and return to the hotel for a few more rounds. Someone breaks out the cards and the poker carries on perhaps all night while other teachers just pass out where they were sitting. The next morning everyone catches up on sleep on the bus or at any pointless morning meeting. This is usually mostly or all paid for with school money and is as much a bonding experience as anything else.

You missed the bit about Koreans not turning up to work after drinking, setting off fire extinguishers, trashing rooms and ruining the reputation of Korean teachers in Korea....Oh yeah, doesn't happen. I see your attitude as being, "OOOOOO Korean teachers drink after meetings and at dinners so we should be allowed to drink at GEPIK orientation too. It's not fair! They drink until we pass out so why aren't we allowed to? It's discrimination. I'm a baby. I want I want I want. maaaaaaaaaaa!"

I think the orientation organisers are smart enough to realise that if they allow booze, some people will get wrecked. It has probably happened year after year so the best way to deal with it is a blanket ban on booze. It's not the end of the world, it's not an ideal solution for everyone but if it helps with the negative reporting of foreign teachers in the media then I'm all in favour. There will be plenty of opportunities to get as smashed as Korean teachers do at other times. It's two and a half days. They have good reasons. Get over it!

If they can't let foreigners act like Koreans for the sake of our reputations that's very touching, but then they should at least give people the option of finding their own accomodations. I for one would much rather pay W40,000 a night for a love hotel than have to live like I'm in a high school dormitory. I'm not in GEPIK, by the way, and based on this and a number of things I've read I hope I never am.

they SHOULD do what??? KOREA OWES YOU NOTHING.

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Offline justanotherwaygook

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #137 on: April 20, 2011, 12:37:13 PM »
Quote
Have you ever been on a staff retreat or workshop with Korean teachers? I'm guessing not. Here's what happens: after a long boring meeting every pigs out and breaks out the soju and beer. Then the guys take off to a noraebang / rooms salon and return to the hotel for a few more rounds. Someone breaks out the cards and the poker carries on perhaps all night while other teachers just pass out where they were sitting. The next morning everyone catches up on sleep on the bus or at any pointless morning meeting. This is usually mostly or all paid for with school money and is as much a bonding experience as anything else.

You missed the bit about Koreans not turning up to work after drinking, setting off fire extinguishers, trashing rooms and ruining the reputation of Korean teachers in Korea....Oh yeah, doesn't happen. I see your attitude as being, "OOOOOO Korean teachers drink after meetings and at dinners so we should be allowed to drink at GEPIK orientation too. It's not fair! They drink until we pass out so why aren't we allowed to? It's discrimination. I'm a baby. I want I want I want. maaaaaaaaaaa!"

I think the orientation organisers are smart enough to realise that if they allow booze, some people will get wrecked. It has probably happened year after year so the best way to deal with it is a blanket ban on booze. It's not the end of the world, it's not an ideal solution for everyone but if it helps with the negative reporting of foreign teachers in the media then I'm all in favour. There will be plenty of opportunities to get as smashed as Korean teachers do at other times. It's two and a half days. They have good reasons. Get over it!

If they can't let foreigners act like Koreans for the sake of our reputations that's very touching, but then they should at least give people the option of finding their own accomodations. I for one would much rather pay W40,000 a night for a love hotel than have to live like I'm in a high school dormitory. I'm not in GEPIK, by the way, and based on this and a number of things I've read I hope I never am.

they SHOULD do what??? KOREA OWES YOU NOTHING.

There's no need for inflammatory remarks, all caps or rudeness.

By the way, it's not Korea, it's GEPIK (which I understand is a government program).  We are not slaves.

I've reviewed some of your previous posts and find this kind of rudeness common.  I don't know where it's coming from.  It seems to almost reflect, on some level, Korean nationalism.  I don't know.
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Offline daveb

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #138 on: April 20, 2011, 12:42:11 PM »
Who cares? Big deal!!  :o

It's not as if they've banned food and water!

Offline giselle

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Re: Alcohol banned at GEPIK orientation
« Reply #139 on: April 20, 2011, 01:51:01 PM »
Hey, guys, come on!  There aren't even any jobs for me to choose from back home.  I'm happy to be here with stable employment & the opportunity to cross-train into a new field of work.  Pull your socks up, y'all.