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Author Topic: My school owes me vacation days (In my opinion). Please help!  (Read 5255 times)

YoungMin

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Re: My school owes me vacation days (In my opinion). Please help!
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2014, 11:39:13 AM »
Well in the Labor Standards it says you can take vacation unless it would cause a hardship on the employer.  Sounds to me like you taking a vacation instead of camp would be a hardship.

Then why have vacation days? Let's just work 365 days a year, eh?

Offline orangeman

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Re: My school owes me vacation days (In my opinion). Please help!
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2014, 11:42:06 AM »
1. They don't carry over.
2. They don't pay unused days like they do back home (UK).
3. You should never have unused vacation days considering numbers 1 & 2.
4. If they say camp is (insert date here) then you tell them you have x vacation days that must be taken regardless of camp.

That is in theory but in practice, that doesn't work, despite what labour law says. I pointed out that I couldn't take my full vacation due because of camps and the head of my MOE said tough luck, the camp comes before your vacation. Guess we cannot win.

That's when you tell them tough luck.  They can't do that, it's against the law.  Since you actually work for a government agency they have to abide by it. 

Don't get confused, camp DOES NOT trump vacation.  Vacation is part of our contract and part of Korean law.  Camp is just something they made up to keep us busy. 

In any other job anywhere on the planet, would an employer get away with saying, "You have X amount of vacation days, unless we decide you can't take them."  No.  Would it be ok if an employer said, "Well, I know it says 2.5 million in the contract, but we've decided to pay you 2.0 now.  Tough luck!"  No. 

I'm not comparing Korea to other countries to bash Korea, but to make people realize how ridiculous the concept is.  Sometimes people come to Korea and turn off their common sense and accept everything they're told.  Of course it's a game of compromise, but just because some blowhard tells you something is 'impossible' doesn't mean it is. 

I'll say it again, even in Korea an employer doesn't have the right to take away the benefits spelled out in your contract.  That's the point of the contract, and why the labour board exists. 

I can hear half of you clutching your pearls screaming in horror about your relationship with your school.  If they're already stealing your pay and benefits, they already don't like you and will toss you away the minute it becomes convenient for them anyway. 

Offline Fanwarrior

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Re: My school owes me vacation days (In my opinion). Please help!
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2014, 12:00:05 PM »
Well in the Labor Standards it says you can take vacation unless it would cause a hardship on the employer.  Sounds to me like you taking a vacation instead of camp would be a hardship.
That's usually when given a choice between two days.
For example if you taking your vacation Tuesday would be during a massive company wide meeting where you're supposed to lead the meeting, vs Wednesday when there is nothing going on, the company could say that it would cause a problem Tuesday and you can't have it Tuesday. What they can't say is that there is just no day for you to take it at all. This is why teachers always get their vacations when students do. There would be little benefit to having the teachers gone while students are there and back when they're not. Those days would cause burdens. But they can't fill ALL the off days and claim there is no way you can take a vacation.

Offline confusedsafferinkorea

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Re: My school owes me vacation days (In my opinion). Please help!
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2014, 12:00:22 PM »
1. They don't carry over.
2. They don't pay unused days like they do back home (UK).
3. You should never have unused vacation days considering numbers 1 & 2.
4. If they say camp is (insert date here) then you tell them you have x vacation days that must be taken regardless of camp.

That is in theory but in practice, that doesn't work, despite what labour law says. I pointed out that I couldn't take my full vacation due because of camps and the head of my MOE said tough luck, the camp comes before your vacation. Guess we cannot win.

That's when you tell them tough luck.  They can't do that, it's against the law.  Since you actually work for a government agency they have to abide by it. 

Don't get confused, camp DOES NOT trump vacation.  Vacation is part of our contract and part of Korean law.  Camp is just something they made up to keep us busy. 

In any other job anywhere on the planet, would an employer get away with saying, "You have X amount of vacation days, unless we decide you can't take them."  No.  Would it be ok if an employer said, "Well, I know it says 2.5 million in the contract, but we've decided to pay you 2.0 now.  Tough luck!"  No. 

I'm not comparing Korea to other countries to bash Korea, but to make people realize how ridiculous the concept is.  Sometimes people come to Korea and turn off their common sense and accept everything they're told.  Of course it's a game of compromise, but just because some blowhard tells you something is 'impossible' doesn't mean it is. 

I'll say it again, even in Korea an employer doesn't have the right to take away the benefits spelled out in your contract.  That's the point of the contract, and why the labour board exists. 

I can hear half of you clutching your pearls screaming in horror about your relationship with your school.  If they're already stealing your pay and benefits, they already don't like you and will toss you away the minute it becomes convenient for them anyway.

While I would love to agree with everything you said, there is a clause in my contract that says I have to do 5 weeks of Camp a year and I work for a MOE.

But, you are right, so many of us get treated like a piece of horse manure and it is time some of us took them on about it.
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Offline stemarty

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Re: My school owes me vacation days (In my opinion). Please help!
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2014, 12:19:58 PM »
Assuming that all your camps are not the same students, if this happens again, ask to have double days. Have the 4 teaching hours of camp in the morning and after lunch, do the other camp. I work at three schools and this has been approved for winter camp.

Having double camps won't work for all schools. Technically we are meant to teach 21 classes a week so the school can ask you to do 4 hour camps a day for the usual 10 day required camp. My Principal wanted me to do a 6 hour camp everyday last year for 10 days and I said no.....downed it to 3 hours a day but it was still a lot of planning!

OP, sorry about the vacation days. I've lost over a weeks worth of vacation days over the past 3 years due to schedule conflicts. It's all about choosing your battles here, I think.
My school has been pretty lenient about letting me go home early after my winter/summer camps finish (we wrap everything up by 12:30 ) so I don't fight the lost vacation days because my school never penalized me for leaving early.

This year put your foot down about the vacation days owed and make sure you and your co-teacher agree on when you can take them. Stand firm! Ask them if it's possible to take a random day off if there are schedule conflicts.
Hopefully it works out for you.
Good luck.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 12:22:51 PM by stemarty »

Offline Fanwarrior

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Re: My school owes me vacation days (In my opinion). Please help!
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2014, 01:04:41 PM »
1. They don't carry over.
2. They don't pay unused days like they do back home (UK).
3. You should never have unused vacation days considering numbers 1 & 2.
4. If they say camp is (insert date here) then you tell them you have x vacation days that must be taken regardless of camp.

That is in theory but in practice, that doesn't work, despite what labour law says. I pointed out that I couldn't take my full vacation due because of camps and the head of my MOE said tough luck, the camp comes before your vacation. Guess we cannot win.

That's when you tell them tough luck.  They can't do that, it's against the law.  Since you actually work for a government agency they have to abide by it. 

Don't get confused, camp DOES NOT trump vacation.  Vacation is part of our contract and part of Korean law.  Camp is just something they made up to keep us busy. 

In any other job anywhere on the planet, would an employer get away with saying, "You have X amount of vacation days, unless we decide you can't take them."  No.  Would it be ok if an employer said, "Well, I know it says 2.5 million in the contract, but we've decided to pay you 2.0 now.  Tough luck!"  No. 

I'm not comparing Korea to other countries to bash Korea, but to make people realize how ridiculous the concept is.  Sometimes people come to Korea and turn off their common sense and accept everything they're told.  Of course it's a game of compromise, but just because some blowhard tells you something is 'impossible' doesn't mean it is. 

I'll say it again, even in Korea an employer doesn't have the right to take away the benefits spelled out in your contract.  That's the point of the contract, and why the labour board exists. 

I can hear half of you clutching your pearls screaming in horror about your relationship with your school.  If they're already stealing your pay and benefits, they already don't like you and will toss you away the minute it becomes convenient for them anyway.

While I would love to agree with everything you said, there is a clause in my contract that says I have to do 5 weeks of Camp a year and I work for a MOE.

But, you are right, so many of us get treated like a piece of horse manure and it is time some of us took them on about it.

Contracts can only guarantee the same as the labour code or more in your favor. You cannot sign away less than the labour code in a contract. Any clause that does won't be enforceable. Employers who put things like "You must give 1 months notice" etc in the contracts don't have a leg to stand on.

Offline donuts81

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Re: My school owes me vacation days (In my opinion). Please help!
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2014, 01:44:48 PM »
While I would love to agree with everything you said, there is a clause in my contract that says I have to do 5 weeks of Camp a year and I work for a MOE.

But, you are right, so many of us get treated like a piece of horse manure and it is time some of us took them on about it.

Confusedsaffer, what MOE do you work for?

 Is there enough time for you to fit in your vacation (renewal etc) If you are working 5 weeks of camp?

OP, I think you will have to lump it this time. Unless you brought it up before signing your new contract it's too late to go and try to retroactively get your vacation back now.

The MOE won't bend and the Labor Board is next to useless when dealing with public schools. They don't want the hassle.

That doesn't mean you can't express your displeasure and tell your school you are unhappy with the situation and that you won't be missing any vacation in the future. I'd also try to work on the angle of having an informal agreement of not coming in for desk warming for two days but it's a long shot.

Worst comes to worst, take two days sick leave to fill out your vacation instead of desk warming. GEPIK didn't require a doctors note until three days had passed. You'll have to check your contract to see if it's similar.

Personally, a school denying me my vacation time is a deal breaker so I wouldn't worry about them being suspicious of your sick days.
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Offline Allison-teacher

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Re: My school owes me vacation days (In my opinion). Please help!
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2014, 02:06:48 PM »
I'm actually curious about your renewal bonus days. As far as I know, you get 5 extra days for renewing. Does your contract state anything about that? I was told that you have to use them the immediate following vacation of when you renewed or the vacation after that.

Offline confusedsafferinkorea

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Re: My school owes me vacation days (In my opinion). Please help!
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2014, 02:27:10 PM »
I'm actually curious about your renewal bonus days. As far as I know, you get 5 extra days for renewing. Does your contract state anything about that? I was told that you have to use them the immediate following vacation of when you renewed or the vacation after that.

I get 7 calendar days and they must be used within 6 months according to my contract.
Everything is not as it seems.

No one owes you anything.... get over it.

NEVER think a failure is the end of the world, it is the beginning of a new opportunity.

There is no known medical cure for stupidity!

Offline Porksta

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Re: My school owes me vacation days (In my opinion). Please help!
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2014, 04:01:07 PM »
Well in the Labor Standards it says you can take vacation unless it would cause a hardship on the employer.  Sounds to me like you taking a vacation instead of camp would be a hardship.

Then why have vacation days? Let's just work 365 days a year, eh?

Is the camp all year?  If not then it sounds like a special occasion where hardship may be caused.

Offline albinoninja

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Re: My school owes me vacation days (In my opinion). Please help!
« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2014, 05:30:39 PM »
New contract = new vacation days.  You were owed those 8 days during summer and your camp should've ended 2 days early in order to get all of those days due you.

You are SOL about those days now.

Offline orangeman

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Re: My school owes me vacation days (In my opinion). Please help!
« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2014, 06:05:17 PM »
Well in the Labor Standards it says you can take vacation unless it would cause a hardship on the employer.  Sounds to me like you taking a vacation instead of camp would be a hardship.

Then why have vacation days? Let's just work 365 days a year, eh?

Is the camp all year?  If not then it sounds like a special occasion where hardship may be caused.

Then what is the regular school calendar?  They can't say it's hardship during the school year, then fill in breaks with more work and call that hardship, too.  To paraphrase the Incredibles, when everything's important then nothing's important. 

Offline Fanwarrior

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Re: My school owes me vacation days (In my opinion). Please help!
« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2014, 11:11:04 PM »
I'm actually curious about your renewal bonus days. As far as I know, you get 5 extra days for renewing. Does your contract state anything about that? I was told that you have to use them the immediate following vacation of when you renewed or the vacation after that.

I get 7 calendar days and they must be used within 6 months according to my contract.
again, not enforceable. Don't take my word for it, call the labour board.

Offline Pecan

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Re: My school owes me vacation days (In my opinion). Please help!
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2014, 03:53:50 AM »
OP,

Not sure which contract you are under, but most of the MOE contracts allow for the principal to extend benefits not spelled out in the contract.

He/She could easily bestow 2 additional days onto your current contract.

Alternatively, this entire ordeal could make you too "sick" to work for at least two days.

Good luck.

Offline Porksta

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Re: My school owes me vacation days (In my opinion). Please help!
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2014, 10:44:42 AM »
Well in the Labor Standards it says you can take vacation unless it would cause a hardship on the employer.  Sounds to me like you taking a vacation instead of camp would be a hardship.

Then why have vacation days? Let's just work 365 days a year, eh?

Is the camp all year?  If not then it sounds like a special occasion where hardship may be caused.

Then what is the regular school calendar?  They can't say it's hardship during the school year, then fill in breaks with more work and call that hardship, too.  To paraphrase the Incredibles, when everything's important then nothing's important.

Maybe I am misunderstanding what the person said.  I thought he said he wanted to use his vacation time during camp, not during a regular work day.