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Author Topic: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?  (Read 105295 times)

Offline Ronnie Omelettes

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #800 on: March 07, 2019, 09:31:05 AM »
That's an old belief that's actually common enough that a group of Korean researchers did a study to disprove it once and for all a few years ago. I remember hearing about that study on the radio and thinking "wait, is that something people actually believed?" It's nearly fan death level ridiculous.

...and eating dog meat makes you more virile.  :rolleyes:

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #801 on: March 07, 2019, 09:50:10 AM »
...and eating dog meat makes you more virile.  :rolleyes:
Had this on Saturday. It works.


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Online macteacher

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #802 on: March 07, 2019, 10:01:38 AM »

The kicker was some expert saying that eating lots of pork will help you get rid of those toxins in your body.


That's an old belief that's actually common enough that a group of Korean researchers did a study to disprove it once and for all a few years ago. I remember hearing about that study on the radio and thinking "wait, is that something people actually believed?" It's nearly fan death level ridiculous.

I guess the "once and for all" part didn't really stick, though, if there are still "experts" on TV recommending it.

Korea: Itís impossible for Korea to be a source of pollution
Also Korea: We the news recommend eating more meat (ie big source of environmental problems)


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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #803 on: March 07, 2019, 10:08:27 AM »
Korea: Itís impossible for Korea to be a source of pollution
Also Korea: We the news recommend eating more meat (ie big source of environmental problems)

Honestly, I love meat, but I'll be the first to admit that it's the single easiest thing to fix on an individual level.

It takes 1500L of water to make a beef patty. It's insane. You'd have to leave your tap running for 5 hours to make a burger. We all know that not leaving the tap running whilst brushing our teeth saves water, but let's be real, it doens't do shit in reality.
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Online OnNut81

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #804 on: March 07, 2019, 11:46:31 AM »
If this weather becomes the norm I think it may prevent me from signing on for another year.  I'm on my 9th consecutive contract now and to keep things interesting I've been pushing my walking excursions.  Found some great routes in Ansan and Siheung that are picturesque and along waterways heading out to sea where I've been getting up to 20 to 25km at a stretch.  I've done sections from the Ara canal going along the Buk Han and Nam Han towards Chuncheon and Yeongpyeong that I plan to do completely this year to get my stamps in the booklet they give out.  If I have to shelve those plans most of the time and am stuck indoors when I don't want to be, I'll have a hard time sticking around. 

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #805 on: March 07, 2019, 12:31:03 PM »
According to some news stories on reddit it's going to get worse next year. A few hundred coal powered power stations and trash burning plants are coming online late this year and next year specifically in the East and north eastern Chinese coastal areas that will put them directly across from Korea.

I dont know how much China is responsible for. There seems to be so much contradictory information out there. I do know that when the wind is blowing from the east and north east, the air pollution is much worse. When it is blowing from west the AQI goes green.
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Offline Andyman

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #806 on: March 07, 2019, 12:46:19 PM »
According to some news stories on reddit it's going to get worse next year. A few hundred coal powered power stations and trash burning plants are coming online late this year and next year specifically in the East and north eastern Chinese coastal areas that will put them directly across from Korea.

I dont know how much China is responsible for. There seems to be so much contradictory information out there. I do know that when the wind is blowing from the east and north east, the air pollution is much worse. When it is blowing from west the AQI goes green.

True. As much as I agree with all the criticisms of Koreans for refusing to take responsibility for what is probably, mostly a domestic problem, anyone paying attention can't help but notice this pattern. Even if only 30% comes from China, that's enough to turn a green day yellow, an orange day red, and so on. If China's coastal trash-and-coal burning plan proceeds unimpeded, I don't think we'll see many green and yellow days at all.

I have to stay here at least another year for certain practical reasons, but if next winter is anything like this one with regard to the air quality, it will be my last. I've worked in Japan and there are a number of things that I prefer about Korea (namely the savings potential and my current easy schedule) but all those green dots on Japan's AQI map now look extremely inviting.

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #807 on: March 07, 2019, 02:12:04 PM »
According to some news stories on reddit it's going to get worse next year. A few hundred coal powered power stations and trash burning plants are coming online late this year and next year specifically in the East and north eastern Chinese coastal areas that will put them directly across from Korea.

I dont know how much China is responsible for. There seems to be so much contradictory information out there. I do know that when the wind is blowing from the east and north east, the air pollution is much worse. When it is blowing from west the AQI goes green.

True. As much as I agree with all the criticisms of Koreans for refusing to take responsibility for what is probably, mostly a domestic problem, anyone paying attention can't help but notice this pattern. Even if only 30% comes from China, that's enough to turn a green day yellow, an orange day red, and so on. If China's coastal trash-and-coal burning plan proceeds unimpeded, I don't think we'll see many green and yellow days at all.

I have to stay here at least another year for certain practical reasons, but if next winter is anything like this one with regard to the air quality, it will be my last. I've worked in Japan and there are a number of things that I prefer about Korea (namely the savings potential and my current easy schedule) but all those green dots on Japan's AQI map now look extremely inviting.

The air pollution from China is seasonal and will definitely increase, but as it stands, most of the air pollution over a 365 day period is domestically produced. The news and government likes to say that 90% of it comes from China, well that's true only for a few days a year, but the headline sticks.

This'll be my 6th contract and next year will be the year I'm done with my studies (correspondence) after which I'm definitely moving on to a job where my skills can be put to proper use.

Offline gogators!

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #808 on: March 07, 2019, 08:27:54 PM »
According to some news stories on reddit it's going to get worse next year. A few hundred coal powered power stations and trash burning plants are coming online late this year and next year specifically in the East and north eastern Chinese coastal areas that will put them directly across from Korea.

I dont know how much China is responsible for. There seems to be so much contradictory information out there. I do know that when the wind is blowing from the east and north east, the air pollution is much worse. When it is blowing from west the AQI goes green.
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Offline hangook77

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #809 on: March 08, 2019, 09:13:44 AM »
A lot of it is still China.  Some of it is local.  Korea went off nuclear and switched to coal over Fukushima scares.  It ought to get over that and get back to it.

The china point is moot. Korea is not China. Korea folded quickly over the THAAD incident with China. Korea is never going to diplomatically get China to Ďchangeí. Also, as the article mentioned, China is a seeing decreases in the highest polluted days unlike Korea.

Not to mention Korea still uses China for manufactoring and as a market. China is not a real tangible policy change for Korea.

Then we won't stop it since China is still doing the heavy bulk.  Korea has it's role to play.  But even if it completely deindustrialized and went back to the stone ages, there would still be pollution this week.  Maybe the reading would have been 100 instead of 200.  But it still would have played a role.  It is better today simply because the winds have shifted, not because either country is polluting less.  People keep saying China is doing something about it.  But that's BS.  Their air quality is still as bad as ever.  Just because they have a few fake solar panels around for show doesn't mean anything.  It's fake news. 

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #810 on: March 08, 2019, 10:42:52 AM »
A lot of it is still China.  Some of it is local.  Korea went off nuclear and switched to coal over Fukushima scares.  It ought to get over that and get back to it.

The china point is moot. Korea is not China. Korea folded quickly over the THAAD incident with China. Korea is never going to diplomatically get China to Ďchangeí. Also, as the article mentioned, China is a seeing decreases in the highest polluted days unlike Korea.

Not to mention Korea still uses China for manufactoring and as a market. China is not a real tangible policy change for Korea.

Then we won't stop it since China is still doing the heavy bulk.  Korea has it's role to play.  But even if it completely deindustrialized and went back to the stone ages, there would still be pollution this week.  Maybe the reading would have been 100 instead of 200.  But it still would have played a role.  It is better today simply because the winds have shifted, not because either country is polluting less.  People keep saying China is doing something about it.  But that's BS.  Their air quality is still as bad as ever.  Just because they have a few fake solar panels around for show doesn't mean anything.  It's fake news.

Itís impossible for anyone to stop polluting full stop. If china did, then millions would starve and die at this point.

http://mengnews.joins.com/view.aspx?aId=3060296

As this article details, the use of coal has risen in Korea over the past decade. Only recently did Korea supposedly halt the construction of 10+ new coal plants. Itís immature to criticize China over something that Korea is barely willing to do themselves.

Also the article details that Korea is using different standards of pollution measurement than that of Europe. Given that scenario, itís possible that the korean government is taking the whole pollution issue in the most conservative terms possible which doesnít bode well for pollution reduction efforts.

FYI when tackling an issue, itís not very prudent to start with a supsition (ie China is 100% the root cause) and then work backwards to prove it, especially in this age of big data. Itís pretty easy to Ďproveí anything. Sometimes common sense helps. If korea doesnít have the proper agencies to be able to prevent/rescue a slowly sinking boat with teenagers onboard, what makes you sure that Korea has the agencies capable of tackling local pollution. 


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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #811 on: March 08, 2019, 10:49:47 AM »
Crazy how today the 119 AQI feels like fresh air...  Looks like some relief is on the way next week. 

Offline hangook77

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #812 on: March 08, 2019, 11:01:24 AM »
A lot of it is still China.  Some of it is local.  Korea went off nuclear and switched to coal over Fukushima scares.  It ought to get over that and get back to it.

The china point is moot. Korea is not China. Korea folded quickly over the THAAD incident with China. Korea is never going to diplomatically get China to Ďchangeí. Also, as the article mentioned, China is a seeing decreases in the highest polluted days unlike Korea.

Not to mention Korea still uses China for manufactoring and as a market. China is not a real tangible policy change for Korea.

Then we won't stop it since China is still doing the heavy bulk.  Korea has it's role to play.  But even if it completely deindustrialized and went back to the stone ages, there would still be pollution this week.  Maybe the reading would have been 100 instead of 200.  But it still would have played a role.  It is better today simply because the winds have shifted, not because either country is polluting less.  People keep saying China is doing something about it.  But that's BS.  Their air quality is still as bad as ever.  Just because they have a few fake solar panels around for show doesn't mean anything.  It's fake news.

Itís impossible for anyone to stop polluting full stop. If china did, then millions would starve and die at this point.

http://mengnews.joins.com/view.aspx?aId=3060296

As this article details, the use of coal has risen in Korea over the past decade. Only recently did Korea supposedly halt the construction of 10+ new coal plants. Itís immature to criticize China over something that Korea is barely willing to do themselves.

Also the article details that Korea is using different standards of pollution measurement than that of Europe. Given that scenario, itís possible that the korean government is taking the whole pollution issue in the most conservative terms possible which doesnít bode well for pollution reduction efforts.

FYI when tackling an issue, itís not very prudent to start with a supsition (ie China is 100% the root cause) and then work backwards to prove it, especially in this age of big data. Itís pretty easy to Ďproveí anything. Sometimes common sense helps. If korea doesnít have the proper agencies to be able to prevent/rescue a slowly sinking boat with teenagers onboard, what makes you sure that Korea has the agencies capable of tackling local pollution.

China has a lot more factories and power plants by coal then Korea.  I also said Korea does play a part too.  I have also mentioned that Korea has been cutting back on clean air nuclear plants and trying to build more coal plants.  Get back to nuclear.  That said, you cannot have a mammoth giant polluting so closely nearby and not expect it to have a large effect on nearby Korea.  You look at the acqi map and you will see Korea and China together this one continuous cloud of pollution.  Add in the climate, the unique humid air and lack lack of proper windflow here sometimes and you get 'trapped' pollution. 

Get over the fear of nuclear since Fukushima.  Air quality will improve.  Get the older diesels off the road.  That tackles a third on the worse days since you won't stop all pollution and can't do anything about the China effect if it chooses not to do anything about it. 

What would be the point of Korea de industrializing 100% and putting people back into an impoverished peasant lifestyle if China is still going to dump their shit in the air and let it float over here?  Also, are Korea and China polluting less today now that the air quality has readings have improved.  They are polluting the same and possibly more.  It is the wind that has changed direction and the climate that has improved.

Online Datasapien

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #813 on: March 08, 2019, 12:12:53 PM »
Crazy how today the 119 AQI feels like fresh air...  Looks like some relief is on the way next week.

Haha yeah, I feel the same, strange that it's still pretty toxic but I don't feel like I need to be wearing my mask in my office because they open the windows all the time.
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Offline MayorHaggar

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #814 on: March 08, 2019, 02:44:27 PM »

As this article details, the use of coal has risen in Korea over the past decade. Only recently did Korea supposedly halt the construction of 10+ new coal plants. Itís immature to criticize China over something that Korea is barely willing to do themselves.

South Korea is the only country in the world ramping up coal power plants. Every other country (including China) is scaling them back. There are coal industry magazines from a few years ago gushing over South Korea being their only viable customer. I'm surprised that the bitter country of Han doesn't blame wicked foreign lobbyists for tricking poor victimized Korea into getting addicted to coal, which is kind of what happened.
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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #815 on: March 08, 2019, 04:17:26 PM »
A lot of it is still China.  Some of it is local.  Korea went off nuclear and switched to coal over Fukushima scares.  It ought to get over that and get back to it.

The china point is moot. Korea is not China. Korea folded quickly over the THAAD incident with China. Korea is never going to diplomatically get China to Ďchangeí. Also, as the article mentioned, China is a seeing decreases in the highest polluted days unlike Korea.

Not to mention Korea still uses China for manufactoring and as a market. China is not a real tangible policy change for Korea.

Then we won't stop it since China is still doing the heavy bulk.  Korea has it's role to play.  But even if it completely deindustrialized and went back to the stone ages, there would still be pollution this week.  Maybe the reading would have been 100 instead of 200.  But it still would have played a role.  It is better today simply because the winds have shifted, not because either country is polluting less.  People keep saying China is doing something about it.  But that's BS.  Their air quality is still as bad as ever.  Just because they have a few fake solar panels around for show doesn't mean anything.  It's fake news.

Itís impossible for anyone to stop polluting full stop. If china did, then millions would starve and die at this point.

http://mengnews.joins.com/view.aspx?aId=3060296

As this article details, the use of coal has risen in Korea over the past decade. Only recently did Korea supposedly halt the construction of 10+ new coal plants. Itís immature to criticize China over something that Korea is barely willing to do themselves.

Also the article details that Korea is using different standards of pollution measurement than that of Europe. Given that scenario, itís possible that the korean government is taking the whole pollution issue in the most conservative terms possible which doesnít bode well for pollution reduction efforts.

FYI when tackling an issue, itís not very prudent to start with a supsition (ie China is 100% the root cause) and then work backwards to prove it, especially in this age of big data. Itís pretty easy to Ďproveí anything. Sometimes common sense helps. If korea doesnít have the proper agencies to be able to prevent/rescue a slowly sinking boat with teenagers onboard, what makes you sure that Korea has the agencies capable of tackling local pollution.

Don't know why this addition was necessary.  It's akin to saying, "If NY doesn't have the agencies to evacuate several thousand people from a slowly burning building, then how can we expect them to keep the streets clean."

You are talking about a very real problem that all countries are struggling with....it's not like anyone is doing it perfectly.

Online macteacher

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #816 on: March 08, 2019, 05:01:32 PM »
 
I donít know man. If new york city didnít have standard building codes and agnencies checking up to enforce fire standards, emergency standards, etc, then yes, Iíd question a political stance that ďnyc is doing everything it can do to combat local pollutionĒ. Also itís not about the event of the boat  itself but also the amount of corruption and lack of oversight to allow boat that was over its weight limit to be an authorized vessel for ferrying people, or the hours it took for emergencies services to arrive. 

Iím  not saying one has to follow the other. Iím just saying that it makes me suspicious that the only strategy Iíve seen so far from Korea is about a rain making technology over the yellow sea and a ďbanĒ of diesel cars. I mean look at the outbreak of SARS a few years back. That whole incident was mishandled.

Barcelona has recently restructured their traffic in order to reduce local pollution and it worked. Japan has a rule in tokyo afaik that one can only have a car if they can prove they have a parking spot. There  are policy changes that could help.

I look around Seoul and see 10 different apartment high rises being built despite the fact that Seoul is losing population, Iím guessing some of those apartment buildings will go to wealthy chinese. Jongros metal district is about to be closed down for speculative real estate, pushing manufacturing networks even further out (ie more time spent commuting materials).

I know Iím talking about a real problem. Thatís why Iím treating it like a real problem and not just waving a finger at China.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2019, 05:03:36 PM by macteacher »

Online JNM

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #817 on: March 08, 2019, 05:22:04 PM »
Iím at the airport.

Online zola

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #818 on: March 08, 2019, 07:28:26 PM »
Iím at the airport.
;D

Good luck. Keep us abreast of how it all goes back home. Safe travels
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Online TheEnergizer

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #819 on: March 09, 2019, 04:46:40 AM »

As this article details, the use of coal has risen in Korea over the past decade. Only recently did Korea supposedly halt the construction of 10+ new coal plants. Itís immature to criticize China over something that Korea is barely willing to do themselves.

South Korea is the only country in the world ramping up coal power plants. Every other country (including China) is scaling them back. There are coal industry magazines from a few years ago gushing over South Korea being their only viable customer. I'm surprised that the bitter country of Han doesn't blame wicked foreign lobbyists for tricking poor victimized Korea into getting addicted to coal, which is kind of what happened.

False:

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-45640706

Along with Japan:

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/12/10/china-japan-south-korea-lead-global-push-to-expand-coal-plants/
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/10/09/reference/japan-continues-rely-coal-eyes-coal-fired-plants-despite-global-criticism/

Yet Japan's air is much cleaner than Korea's. Could it be because they are further away from China?

I know a lot of people here have a hard on for hating Korea, but to deny China's big involvement of the pollution here is ignorant.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2019, 04:51:15 AM by TheEnergizer »