March 25, 2019, 09:08:03 PM


Author Topic: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?  (Read 105291 times)

Offline Cyanea

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #780 on: March 05, 2019, 10:22:49 PM »
I like steak as much as the next non-vegan/vegetarian/weirdo, but for the reasons above (and many others) it's definitely a guilty pleasure.

I thought that way for years but I've begun to take the opposite view. The natural state of the earth until relatively recently is that it was covered with vast herds of grazers and browsers. Think of e.g. the huge numbers of Bison that once covered the North American plains.

What we've done over the past 3-4 centuries is remove all these animals that were busy aerating and fertilizing the soil. We've replaced them with..nothing, in many cases. Thats why the land is desertifying and aridifying around the world.
Catch my drift?

Online Aristocrat

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #781 on: March 06, 2019, 12:00:35 AM »


Korea got to develop rapidly into a 1st world country at the sake of working conditions and local pollution. China has brought a group of people to middle class in an unprecedented amount of time. If it werenít for climate concerns (a recent issue that has been brought to the table), the world might be marveling at it. Iím not sold on finger waving at China. Can you look at a group of people and say that they donít deserve a middle class lifestyle just because of time and circumstance?

You're right, absolutely nothing miraculous about that "miracle of the Han river" jazz. Despite being built on the backs of slaves and supported opun centuries of theft and pillaging, the Western world developed organically, that is, the culture, technology and politics developed concurrently. Korea and China developed artificially, and that artificial growth was plagued by a massive lack of foresight in the interest of speed; nothing commendable about a fat guy losing 20kg in a month if he resorts to amputation.

It's always amazing to me how China, one of the oldest and at one point most advanced civilizations on Earth, pissed thousands of years of rich culture and advancement away during the few short years of one of History's greatest f**k ups, Mao.

With Korea, I have hope for the future. The key is going to be civil protest and despite the media and government's propaganda of shifting the blame, the internet isn't blocked over here and while it takes a lot to get their attention away from LOL and stupid soap operas, Koreans have recently lifted their heads enough to protest and get a corrupt president thrown in jail.

For China, pfffft, good luck with that. The CCP will destroy this whole planet and themselves along with it if it will make them richer, they're pure evil and greed. While China chokes on poison, party officials are simply taking all the billions they make and sending it to their bratty kids and wives living in Beverly Hills.

Online confusedsafferinkorea

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #782 on: March 06, 2019, 09:43:08 AM »


Korea got to develop rapidly into a 1st world country at the sake of working conditions and local pollution. China has brought a group of people to middle class in an unprecedented amount of time. If it werenít for climate concerns (a recent issue that has been brought to the table), the world might be marveling at it. Iím not sold on finger waving at China. Can you look at a group of people and say that they donít deserve a middle class lifestyle just because of time and circumstance?

You're right, absolutely nothing miraculous about that "miracle of the Han river" jazz. Despite being built on the backs of slaves and supported opun centuries of theft and pillaging, the Western world developed organically, that is, the culture, technology and politics developed concurrently. Korea and China developed artificially, and that artificial growth was plagued by a massive lack of foresight in the interest of speed; nothing commendable about a fat guy losing 20kg in a month if he resorts to amputation.

It's always amazing to me how China, one of the oldest and at one point most advanced civilizations on Earth, pissed thousands of years of rich culture and advancement away during the few short years of one of History's greatest f**k ups, Mao.

With Korea, I have hope for the future. The key is going to be civil protest and despite the media and government's propaganda of shifting the blame, the internet isn't blocked over here and while it takes a lot to get their attention away from LOL and stupid soap operas, Koreans have recently lifted their heads enough to protest and get a corrupt president thrown in jail.

For China, pfffft, good luck with that. The CCP will destroy this whole planet and themselves along with it if it will make them richer, they're pure evil and greed. While China chokes on poison, party officials are simply taking all the billions they make and sending it to their bratty kids and wives living in Beverly Hills.
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I wish there was a thumbs up button on Waygook. I feel so sorry for the common Chinese people, the CCP will destroy them. I have a friend in China and her father is a real high up guy in the CCP and she can told me she is ashamed of what is going on in China now. She sees right through the CCP, unfortunately the majority can't because they are naive, their media is censored and they are indoctrinated from very young.
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Offline MayorHaggar

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #783 on: March 06, 2019, 12:08:48 PM »
I actually bought this today :(

http://item2.gmarket.co.kr/English/detailview/item.aspx?goodscode=988652124
Wear it with a bit of sparkle and pizzazz and nobody will ever mock you for it!

                                         

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Offline SanderB

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #784 on: March 06, 2019, 12:14:03 PM »
Quote
The CCP will destroy this whole planet

I think Russia will.
I'm also thinking of eating meat again, there's no use in trying to save the planet with Russia-China-India.
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Online macteacher

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #785 on: March 06, 2019, 01:09:26 PM »

If the falling numbers are true, then at least China is making a collective effort.

Look at this thread and article:
https://www.reddit.com/r/korea/comments/axrgs5/if_south_korea_shuts_down_the_10_oldest_coal/

Korea and korean nationalists would rather die on this hill of ďkorea never pollutesĒ and subject themselves to horrible conditions than take any responsibility.

Online kyndo

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #786 on: March 06, 2019, 01:39:29 PM »
I like steak as much as the next non-vegan/vegetarian/weirdo, but for the reasons above (and many others) it's definitely a guilty pleasure.

I thought that way for years but I've begun to take the opposite view. The natural state of the earth until relatively recently is that it was covered with vast herds of grazers and browsers. Think of e.g. the huge numbers of Bison that once covered the North American plains.

You're right -- there were crap tonnes of grazers back in the day -- but that doesn't have much to do with the problems of modern industrial cattle grazing.
    The issue isn't that we're converting jungle to grassland, but rather, it's the rate at which it is occurring. Take the Amazon for example: the reason it's so diverse is that the whole basin area has swung between plains and forests several dozen times in the last few epochs. Forests fragment, creating population isolates, which force speciation and ultimately promote higher levels of biodiversity. But these environmental changes took time. Usually a few hundreds or even thousands of years. The current rate of deforestation is orders of magnitude faster than most large scale changes (except those that, you know, accompanied mass extinction events). Consider that  a lot of land is currently being paved, strip mined, overfarmed/grazed, acidified, monocultured, poisoned, and pillaged, it will take a very long time for a healthy, diverse ecosystem to replace what has been destroyed.
         Industrial agriculture is making rapid changes to global ecosystems that can't be naturally compensated for in a way that will be beneficial for existing species (including ourselves). Don't get me wrong: unless we step up our game I doubt that Earth will become a barren wasteland, but it *is* possible that the new equilibrium it will settle at will be unlivable for humans. I'd prefer for that not to happen.

What we've done over the past 3-4 centuries is remove all these animals that were busy aerating and fertilizing the soil. We've replaced them with..nothing, in many cases. That's why the land is desertifying and aridifying around the world.
Right. I don't wave placards around or berate people on facebook or anything, but I do think it's pretty sad that we're turning our planet's biodiversity hotspots into endless plains of cracked dirt because we can't be arsed to reduce our consumption of foods that ultimately aren't even all that good for us.  :sad:
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 01:41:11 PM by kyndo »

Online leaponover

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #787 on: March 06, 2019, 02:26:28 PM »
I'm curious if those 137 yes votes have left yet....
I will be in 330 days

Obviously your comment is of the "ho ho, if it's so bad why dont you leave" variety. But, things aren't always that simple. I know over the last 2 months I have heard more people say they were leaving or wanted to leave, than i had heard in the previous 6 years combined.

We were always planning to leave early 2020 and this year is a super important money making year for me. When i wake up on mornings like today's and see the air is so thick with shit that i can't see beyond out apartment complex I feel guilty and that I'm directly hurting my son's health. But if we were just to pack up and leave this week, our financial situation back home would be a step behind were it should be. Beyond breaking my contract and leaving however many tens of millions we have tied up in Jeonsae.

Well still 135 people unaccounted for.  I was just talking to my wife about this today laughing about it.  She told me i'm a jerk, haha.  However, your situation came up in the conversation.  I told her that I could see somebody like myself or a person that has lived here awhile with family getting annoyed with it, but not the average Joe who is on a 1 or 2 year and done plan.  So I could see why worrying about the health of a child would be a reason to leave, but there's a flip side to it.  Raising a child in the West you have to worry about drugs, unhealthy food and crime which is a constant threat whereas the air pollution thing comes and goes.

I respect your decision, but I'm thinking i'd just opt to have my child wear a mask than battle the many hazards in my home country.  Good luck to you though.  Can never fault someone for caring about their family.  Save save save!

Online Mister Tim

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #788 on: March 06, 2019, 02:37:38 PM »
Well still 135 people unaccounted for. 

This thread is five years old. Safe money says most of them are long gone.

I respect your decision, but I'm thinking i'd just opt to have my child wear a mask than battle the many hazards in my home country. 

Zola is from NZ. It isn't actually Mordor, it just plays one on TV.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 02:58:35 PM by Mister Tim »

Online CO2

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #789 on: March 06, 2019, 02:50:20 PM »
Open your eyes, people. It's all homegrown.
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Offline Ronnie Omelettes

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #790 on: March 06, 2019, 03:07:41 PM »
in Chungnam (using the AQICN site) it was 221 last Thursday and hasn't been below 170 since then.  that's a whole effing week not being able to do something outside.  you could say, 'wear a mask and go hiking', there is no enjoyment in that, because I'm breathing dry air through the mask, and I can't see anything because it's so shitty.  i always wonder when I can go hiking what effect does this pollution have on animals, birds etc.  like Zola, this is the last year.  who seriously wants to date someone with the backdrop of 'Bladerunner 2049'?



'hey, that pollution effect is so lifelike, must have cost a fortune to pump that shit out and make it look like a dystopia'
'nah, we just came to Korea and it cost nothing'

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #791 on: March 06, 2019, 05:40:34 PM »

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #792 on: March 06, 2019, 05:49:40 PM »

Online leaponover

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #793 on: March 06, 2019, 06:18:08 PM »
Well still 135 people unaccounted for. 

This thread is five years old. Safe money says most of them are long gone.

I respect your decision, but I'm thinking i'd just opt to have my child wear a mask than battle the many hazards in my home country. 

Zola is from NZ. It isn't actually Mordor, it just plays one on TV.

Haha nice!  I thought nobody ever left NZ?  At least he was already used to the tiny homes :-P

Offline SanderB

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #794 on: March 06, 2019, 07:03:08 PM »
I was watching Running man, taped last week I think, and they were visibly out of breath during all their walking and running. Nobody was wearing masks though, not even out in the streets. I'm looking forward to next Sunday!
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Offline friendofcletus

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #795 on: March 07, 2019, 08:11:01 AM »
I was watching SBS last night with my wife. There was a segment about air pollution which made me angry.

First it started with showing cities in India, China, etc. Then is showed Korea, saying "see we actually have  pretty good air quality".

It then went on to say that China was responsible for most of it.

The kicker was some expert saying that eating lots of pork will help you get rid of those toxins in your body.

Is it any wonder why nothing has changed in terms of social behavior (ie, buying less, driving less, etc).
   

Online alexisalex

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #796 on: March 07, 2019, 08:36:34 AM »
Any other people living in Busan who don't notice the pollution?  I don't notice it until I read about it.

From Reddit:

Quote
I was walking home tonight. Forgot my mask. Almost immediately, I felt the need to spit, but didn't. Very pungent taste and smell. After five minutes it felt like I needed to blow my nose. I felt a burning in the back and upper part of my throat. As I was breathing, the air felt thick.

To me, this sounds like something from a science fiction novel or a Novichok attack.  Is it really this bad?

From the same thread:

Quote
I ran outside 5 days a week and the dust didnt bother me at all. I think a lot of people overblow the severity of the situation if you are otherwise healthy

Could this be the big difference?  Not living in Seoul + healthy lifestyle = oblivious to the air?

Offline Ronnie Omelettes

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #797 on: March 07, 2019, 08:54:34 AM »
I was watching SBS last night with my wife. There was a segment about air pollution which made me angry.

First it started with showing cities in India, China, etc. Then is showed Korea, saying "see we actually have  pretty good air quality".

It then went on to say that China was responsible for most of it.

The kicker was some expert saying that eating lots of pork will help you get rid of those toxins in your body.

Is it any wonder why nothing has changed in terms of social behavior (ie, buying less, driving less, etc).
 

yep, always someone else's fault.  Korea does have 'better' air quality than China and India, but it's still shit by any standard. 

was that stupid expert sponsored by some meat company? 

to a lot of Koreans having money is the most important thing.  who cares about pollution when you drive around in a Mercedes?  superficially looking good is more important than a bit of coughing here and there.  why am I still looking outside and seeing kids running around with no masks on?  or at my school, there are soft tennis courts where boys (elementary and middle) play day in day out. ridiculous.

Quote
I ran outside 5 days a week and the dust didnt bother me at all. I think a lot of people overblow the severity of the situation if you are otherwise healthy

Could this be the big difference?  Not living in Seoul + healthy lifestyle = oblivious to the air?

your body never gets used to pollution regardless of your lifestyle. that person may well have said 'I smoke thirty a day, but I'm never sick'.  same rationale.  it'll come. 

Online kyndo

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #798 on: March 07, 2019, 08:58:36 AM »
I was watching Running man, taped last week I think, and they were visibly out of breath during all their walking and running. Nobody was wearing masks though, not even out in the streets. I'm looking forward to next Sunday!
The new episode will be them attempting to crack jokes while on respirators in the cancer ward.   :laugh:... :huh:... :cry:

Online Mister Tim

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #799 on: March 07, 2019, 09:01:37 AM »

The kicker was some expert saying that eating lots of pork will help you get rid of those toxins in your body.


That's an old belief that's actually common enough that a group of Korean researchers did a study to disprove it once and for all a few years ago. I remember hearing about that study on the radio and thinking "wait, is that something people actually believed?" It's nearly fan death level ridiculous.

I guess the "once and for all" part didn't really stick, though, if there are still "experts" on TV recommending it.