February 22, 2019, 12:41:06 PM


Author Topic: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?  (Read 97137 times)

Offline VanIslander

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #500 on: April 29, 2018, 04:23:03 AM »
Busan is MOST OFTEN better than Seoul in air pollution.

Of course, not always.

Gawd, a single day of pollution reporting is INANE. :blank:

But then again, some people base their life decisions off of individual experiences they have had, not reflective decisions of considered evidence. The human condition it is, for the most part.

Offline Life Improvement

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #501 on: April 29, 2018, 05:04:16 AM »
The article was talking about the average ultra fine dust pollution over the course of a year.

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The main cause of Busan's air pollution was sulfur oxides in emissions from ships and shipyard facilities

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Another contributor to Busan's pollution was an industrial complex in the western area

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Busan's air pollution peaked during summer when ocean-bound gales from southwest blew hardest. This also was in contrast to Seoul and its surroundings, where pollution was worst in winter, because of wind from northwest, and in spring, when wind carrying sand from eastern China blows strongly toward the Korean Peninsula.

IN THE PAST Busan was most often better than Seoul in air pollution. But not anymore. About neck and neck now with Busan slightly more polluted.

https://aqicn.org/city/seoul
https://aqicn.org/city/busan
https://aqicn.org/city/newyork

We'll check these periodically and see what happens.


Offline Epistemology

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #502 on: April 29, 2018, 01:45:08 PM »
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SEOUL, South Korea — South Korea’s rapidly worsening air pollution has forced the country’s professional baseball league to postpone three games.

https://nypost.com/2018/04/06/south-korea-baseball-league-postpones-games-for-pollution/

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South Korea in recent years has been experiencing an acute rise in air pollution that experts link to emissions from the country’s increasing number of cars and also to China’s massive industrial activity.

In a meeting with top Chinese diplomat Yang Jiechi last week, South Korean President Moon Jae-in said China was partially responsible for South Korea’s pollution problem and called for Beijing’s cooperation in Seoul’s efforts to improve air quality
.

Never heard of something like this happening before. That means Koreans are increasingly becoming aware / acknowledging / becoming concerned / taking concrete action.

I wouldn't hold my breath, so to speak.

What it really means is that Koreans are more susceptible to the nationalist propaganda BS than ever.

South Korea heavily relies on their own coal plants to power the country, just like China. The more the Korean government can shift the blame and responsibility to China, the less criticism they face.

Bingo. The Moon government refuses point blank to take ownership of the health crisis they are responsible in creating.
Away an bile yer heid ya numpty,ye dinnae ken whit yer talkin aboot.

donovan

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #503 on: April 29, 2018, 07:57:21 PM »
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/apr/17/more-than-95-of-worlds-population-breathe-dangerous-air-major-study-finds

Why is it that one of Coway’s - a Korean company, mind you - top-rated air purifiers, the AP-1512HH, is nowhere to be found in Korea save for a few internet retailers. (On a related note, why does Auction not want my money? :cry:)

Postponing baseball games does sound substantive to me (on a professional sports level, not a governmental level). It’s certain to draw people’s attention; probably many of the kinds of people who wouldn’t normally concern themselves with air quality. The kind of people who can stare deep into the seolleongtang-white sky and take a pensive drag from their cigarette without so much as batting an eye (looking at you, BCS).

Online thunderlips

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #504 on: April 30, 2018, 10:27:49 AM »


This pretty much sums it up. I know it's not today's reading, but the image is spot on.

Online Chinguetti

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #505 on: May 01, 2018, 08:41:35 AM »
"The rise in fine dust in Korea and the collapse of governance."

http://m.koreatimes.co.kr/phone/news/view.jsp?req_newsidx=247874

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The promotion of a “pro-business” approach to governance that valued short-term profits over the long-term well-being of the nation did permanent damage to the government itself. Today, politicians spend most of their time trying to promote their image and little time coming up with brave and effective solutions to real problems. The low-key and complex process of solving problems is less important than the image perceived in the media.

At the heart of this war on government is the promotion of deregulation (which means literally de-criminalization). The result of deregulation is that government officials have lost the ability to serve as a check on for-profit organizations. Today, profits for business has become the critical issue in the policymaking process and consequentially the government has lost its ability to formulate and implement long-term policies.

That problem has been made worse because deregulation has been paired with privatization so that infrastructure is run for profit. Such an approach poisons attitudes toward the community at every level.

The clearest example of the collapse of governance in Korea is the inability of South Korea to respond to the devastating increase in fine particulate matter in the air. The government is unable to identify the sources of the pollution for the public, to formulate a long-term solution or to demand that industry make the necessary improvements required to address the problem directly.

Offline Epistemology

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #506 on: May 01, 2018, 10:44:54 AM »
"The rise in fine dust in Korea and the collapse of governance."

http://m.koreatimes.co.kr/phone/news/view.jsp?req_newsidx=247874

Quote
The promotion of a “pro-business” approach to governance that valued short-term profits over the long-term well-being of the nation did permanent damage to the government itself. Today, politicians spend most of their time trying to promote their image and little time coming up with brave and effective solutions to real problems. The low-key and complex process of solving problems is less important than the image perceived in the media.

At the heart of this war on government is the promotion of deregulation (which means literally de-criminalization). The result of deregulation is that government officials have lost the ability to serve as a check on for-profit organizations. Today, profits for business has become the critical issue in the policymaking process and consequentially the government has lost its ability to formulate and implement long-term policies.

That problem has been made worse because deregulation has been paired with privatization so that infrastructure is run for profit. Such an approach poisons attitudes toward the community at every level.

The clearest example of the collapse of governance in Korea is the inability of South Korea to respond to the devastating increase in fine particulate matter in the air. The government is unable unwilling to identify the sources of the pollution for the public, to formulate a long-term solution or to demand that industry make the necessary improvements required to address the problem directly.

Fixed for accuracy.
The moment they identify the sources to the public, Moon will be subject to the same kind of protests Park was.
Away an bile yer heid ya numpty,ye dinnae ken whit yer talkin aboot.

sligo

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #507 on: May 01, 2018, 10:54:01 AM »
AQI:

Seoul: 124
Busan: 105
Cheongju: 158

Beijing: 93
Chingdao: 51
Shanghai: 92

So tell me again, how China is causing this.....

Online oglop

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #508 on: May 01, 2018, 11:13:42 AM »
anyone ever notice how the korean websites (and digital signs i see outside) report a much lower reading than airvisual/aqicn?

Online zola

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #509 on: May 01, 2018, 11:20:04 AM »
Yes. I don't know what my wife uses but it's consistently around half of Aqicn and Air Visual says it is. I think it's on the Naver homepage maybe.
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Offline ESLTurtle

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #510 on: May 01, 2018, 01:22:51 PM »
All my Korean friends basically blame China for all of this.
Last Saturday I was with my friend Minsu PAK and I wanted to eat huoguo (Kind of like Chinese-style shabu shabu). He said f*ck that m8, we eating at KIMBAP CHEONGUK today madafaka #IlRecognizeIl  :afro:

Offline macteacher

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #511 on: May 01, 2018, 02:28:52 PM »
anyone ever notice how the korean websites (and digital signs i see outside) report a much lower reading than airvisual/aqicn?

i don’t think they typically take the 2.5 into account

Online Chinguetti

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #512 on: May 01, 2018, 03:15:14 PM »
anyone ever notice how the korean websites (and digital signs i see outside) report a much lower reading than airvisual/aqicn?

i don’t think they typically take the 2.5 into account

I remember reading somewhere that they also use a different metric in some places to make the air seem better than it actually is.

Offline jimskins

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #513 on: May 01, 2018, 03:57:54 PM »
My wife and I argued about the air pollution problem this morning.  She gets annoyed at me complaining about it, but her point that in our own way we are all to blame and that complaining about it doesn't help was fair enough.  We're going to give it two more years and then think seriously about returning to the UK if there is no improvement.

Apologies for the rant that follows but I just have to have a release today...

When I came to Korea I was impressed by their recycling systems but with all the vinyl piling up recently I realised that they have to be on the ball with the recycling because they consume so much, along with all the packaging that goes with it.  Don't get me wrong, the UK is a consumer-driven, capatalist nation just like Korea, but it seems sometimes that this country's hobby is shopping.  They earn decent salaries but work such long hours they have no time to do anything/holiday, so just spend it on crap to make it feel like what they're doing is worthwhile.  In the UK the average person probably gets one maybe two packages delivered a month but here getting three or four package deliverys a week is not unusual. And it takes energy to make this stuff, energy to deleiver it, energy to take away all the packaging, energy to recycle the packaging and eventually energy to recycle whatever crappy Samsung trinket you've spent your money on. More energy requires more power stations, more pollution and so it goes on.

I've seen adverts for fridges on the TV that start with some model saying "you know you should change your fridge every 7 years..." what?  We spent over a million and a half on an LG TV about 8 years ago and then it recently it broke, I was shocked when the engineer who came to fix it was not suprised, claiming most people change their tvs long before they get that old.  That whole 'keeping up the Joneses' is especially strong in Korea, which doesn't help matters on the 'buying the latest flashy tack' front.  The latest thing of course is the indoor air cleaners, they seem quite satisfied with coming up with these, ok fine, but do you think these things run on fresh air?  It's just another thing to plug in, requires more energy, more power stations, more pollution etc etc the cycle continues.  But of course all this buying and replacing, buying and replacing doesn't hurt the likes of Samsung, who seem to run the country anyway...

The problem is that I just can't see any government sorting it out.  If there was a problem this big in the UK they would have a cross-party committee to make hard decisions on how to improve the situation; unpopular decisions that are going to hurt people in the short term but ultimately improve things in the long-term.  A 10,000 Won congestion charge for each day a vehicle drives in Seoul, higher energy prices, a 200 won charge for every plastic bag, companies in Seoul no longer providing parking for workers etc etc.  If a government implemented any of these things by themselves they would be murdered at the polls, so it's impossible to bring about any meaningful change without the cooperation of all politicians, but good luck on getting the democratic party and the Korea freedom party to work together on such measures, they spend most of their time slinging mud at eachother rather than trying to improve the lives of Koreans.

Rant over.

Online oglop

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #514 on: May 01, 2018, 04:06:39 PM »
^ yes, koreans i've talked to seem indifferent about the pollution and just shrug. "it's all china's fault" or "nothing can be done about it".

for a country that seems so nationalistic and proud in so many ways, you'd think it would be a higher priority...


Offline raysmith

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #515 on: May 01, 2018, 06:41:10 PM »

The latest thing of course is the indoor air cleaners, they seem quite satisfied with coming up with these, ok fine, but do you think these things run on fresh air?  It's just another thing to plug in, requires more energy, more power stations, more pollution etc etc the cycle continues. 


I was chatting to a friend (non-Korean) about the air pollution in Korea recently.   He said "Oh, I've got one of those air purifiers.  They're great.  I run it all the time".

I'm not sure whether it had occurred to him that it was an electrical appliance that was probably further contributing to the air pollution problem.

Offline Epistemology

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #516 on: May 01, 2018, 08:48:02 PM »
anyone ever notice how the korean websites (and digital signs i see outside) report a much lower reading than airvisual/aqicn?

i don’t think they typically take the 2.5 into account

they don't. PM 10 only.

Which isn't really the danger.
Away an bile yer heid ya numpty,ye dinnae ken whit yer talkin aboot.

Offline gogators!

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #517 on: May 02, 2018, 05:27:37 AM »

The latest thing of course is the indoor air cleaners, they seem quite satisfied with coming up with these, ok fine, but do you think these things run on fresh air?  It's just another thing to plug in, requires more energy, more power stations, more pollution etc etc the cycle continues. 


I was chatting to a friend (non-Korean) about the air pollution in Korea recently.   He said "Oh, I've got one of those air purifiers.  They're great.  I run it all the time".

I'm not sure whether it had occurred to him that it was an electrical appliance that was probably further contributing to the air pollution problem.
Catch 22.

BTW, it is just gorgeous in sunny florida today. Getting ready for a bike ride to take it all in.

Online oglop

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #518 on: May 02, 2018, 08:36:59 AM »

The latest thing of course is the indoor air cleaners, they seem quite satisfied with coming up with these, ok fine, but do you think these things run on fresh air?  It's just another thing to plug in, requires more energy, more power stations, more pollution etc etc the cycle continues. 


I was chatting to a friend (non-Korean) about the air pollution in Korea recently.   He said "Oh, I've got one of those air purifiers.  They're great.  I run it all the time".

I'm not sure whether it had occurred to him that it was an electrical appliance that was probably further contributing to the air pollution problem.
by that logic, never use and fan or the air con in summer, and don't turn on the heat in summer. actually, you were wasting precious electricity and polluting the environment by using the internet to post that comment

Online Chinguetti

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #519 on: May 02, 2018, 08:45:47 AM »

The latest thing of course is the indoor air cleaners, they seem quite satisfied with coming up with these, ok fine, but do you think these things run on fresh air?  It's just another thing to plug in, requires more energy, more power stations, more pollution etc etc the cycle continues. 


I was chatting to a friend (non-Korean) about the air pollution in Korea recently.   He said "Oh, I've got one of those air purifiers.  They're great.  I run it all the time".

I'm not sure whether it had occurred to him that it was an electrical appliance that was probably further contributing to the air pollution problem.

Even if it did, it wouldn't stop him from using it, because people still don't want to breath in all that pollution.

The problem isn't with using electrical appliances. It's partly in Korea's choice in source of electricity. Even if people decided not to protect their health and to stop using air purifiers, pollution would still be a problem, because it was pollution that turned purifiers into the norm here in the first place. Pollution came first. Refusing to use certain appliances isn't going to dent it. You'd have to stop using electricity altogether.

The rest of the problem comes down to a lack of regulations against manufacturing industries.