February 22, 2019, 11:55:32 AM


Author Topic: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?  (Read 97118 times)

Offline MayorHaggar

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #300 on: May 09, 2017, 10:46:37 AM »
It wasn't that bad - OK, my bike outside turned yellow over the weekend, but it's not the first time this happened. 

Having said that, the fact that I see that as being normal tells me I've been here way too long.

Then again, two years ago, I was a bit freaked out when, after a bit of rain, I saw all of the water puddles turn bright purple/yellow all over the city.  So, you could say that Korea keeps surprising me further.

Keep in mind that for the last month all the pine trees are dusting everything in pine pollen. If you see neon yellow dust on stuff, it's pine pollen.

Every year we go through this...

"omg there's yellow dust on everything!!11"
"It's pollen..." >:(


The amount of crap in the air here though is pretty disturbing. Lately I've been cleaning up stuff in my apartment like fans that were sitting out in the spare room all winter, and they are covered in dusty black grime...this is stuff that we breathe into our lungs every day!
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Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on Yesterday at 01:40:32 PM

    Trump is a liar and a con man.

donovan

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #301 on: May 09, 2017, 03:34:31 PM »
RAIN! Glorious rain!!

Offline weigookin74

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #302 on: May 09, 2017, 07:03:20 PM »
Sweetness.  Rain and easterly winds. 

Offline weigookin74

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Offline Life Improvement

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #304 on: May 13, 2017, 07:29:13 AM »
Because air pollution is reported locally, and I was talking about the collapse of heavy manufacturing in the USA having an impact on those locations.

... and you see increased pollution due to increased heavy manufacturing (and car ownership, to a lesser extent) in China and Korea as the counterpoint.

But American manufacturing is producing double what it did in 1984. So how did it "collapse"?

South Korea's manufacturing didn't suddenly go up in the past year or two. It actually has been stagnating and even going down in some cases.

Why is Korea's air so polluted?

Per capita coal consumption:

OECD Europe: 0.69
OECD overall: 1.13
China: 2.07
South Korea: 2.29 (and quickly rising)

South Korea's a tiny country with many people packed together. And 59 coal burning power plants with 12 more scheduled for completion soon.

Offline MayorHaggar

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #305 on: May 13, 2017, 12:20:12 PM »
RAIN! Glorious rain!!


I was so happy yesterday, I went hiking for two hours and caught two massive downpours.  It was ace.  When I got home, I was soaked.  Air today is good!!!  Yoohoo!!



Today and yesterday:

KOREA AND CHINA: "Hey I heard you guys really like OB."
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Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on Yesterday at 01:40:32 PM

    Trump is a liar and a con man.

Offline JNM

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #306 on: May 13, 2017, 02:34:34 PM »
Because air pollution is reported locally, and I was talking about the collapse of heavy manufacturing in the USA having an impact on those locations.

... and you see increased pollution due to increased heavy manufacturing (and car ownership, to a lesser extent) in China and Korea as the counterpoint.

But American manufacturing is producing double what it did in 1984. So how did it "collapse"?

South Korea's manufacturing didn't suddenly go up in the past year or two. It actually has been stagnating and even going down in some cases.

Why is Korea's air so polluted?

Per capita coal consumption:

OECD Europe: 0.69
OECD overall: 1.13
China: 2.07
South Korea: 2.29 (and quickly rising)

South Korea's a tiny country with many people packed together. And 59 coal burning power plants with 12 more scheduled for completion soon.

1) HEAVY manufacturing in the USA.
2) Chinese manufacturing has increased, which impacts Korea.
3) yes, coal is a big part of it.


Offline JNM

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #308 on: May 13, 2017, 03:54:39 PM »
Repeating the same arguments, but not addressing my point.

US Manufacturing in dollars (inflation adjusted) is up; no debate, quit posting links.

Heavy manufacturing in the US, the kind that makes pollution and needs more pollution made to power it....


Offline Life Improvement

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #309 on: May 13, 2017, 04:09:50 PM »
Looks like not much of a change since 1980ish (according to your graph). Well, the difference between 8 and 7. Oh noes! a 12% drop! But that's steel only. How do you know a more efficient metal hasn't been increasingly used? And you can't use one area of production as a judge of the industry as a whole. Either way, that can't explain the huge drop in pollution in the U.S. It was because of good laws that for example required factories to put high quality filters in/on their smoke stacks.

Offline JNM

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #310 on: May 13, 2017, 04:28:11 PM »
Looks like not much of a change since 1980ish (according to your graph). Well, the difference between 8 and 7. Oh noes! a 12% drop! But that's steel only. How do you know a more efficient metal hasn't been increasingly used? And you can't use one area of production as a judge of the industry as a whole. Either way, that can't explain the huge drop in pollution in the U.S. It was because of good laws that for example required factories to put high quality filters in/on their smoke stacks.

Yes, environmental laws have helped, a lot.

"Better materials" isn't really a big impact, in my opinion.* Much of the "better material" is just more consistent steel.

* No citations, except my 10 years in manufacturing (Aerospace, power plant, consumer electronics), and another 10 in power plant regulation.



Offline MayorHaggar

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #311 on: May 13, 2017, 07:55:52 PM »
Seems like every day I see a Korean minivan or scooter that is spewing massive clouds of black or gray smoke out of the back of it.

Meanwhile Californians bitch about the smog tests that keep their skies blue.
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Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on Yesterday at 01:40:32 PM

    Trump is a liar and a con man.

Offline freddyinkorea

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #312 on: May 13, 2017, 09:23:48 PM »
Seems like every day I see a Korean minivan or scooter that is spewing massive clouds of black or gray smoke out of the back of it.

Meanwhile Californians bitch about the smog tests that keep their skies blue.

This could have some legs.  Actually Korea has some good regulations for car emissions, but are these regulations enforced?  Is it the same with industry?  I really wish Korea would enforce their own laws, just looking at traffic enforcement, although they have good laws, violations are never enforced.     

Offline gogators!

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #313 on: May 14, 2017, 09:21:40 AM »
Seems like every day I see a Korean minivan or scooter that is spewing massive clouds of black or gray smoke out of the back of it.

Meanwhile Californians bitch about the smog tests that keep their skies blue.

This could have some legs.  Actually Korea has some good regulations for car emissions, but are these regulations enforced?  Is it the same with industry?  I really wish Korea would enforce their own laws, just looking at traffic enforcement, although they have good laws, violations are never enforced.   
Yep. Koreans talk a good game, but that's about as far as they get.

Offline weigookin74

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #314 on: May 14, 2017, 04:59:33 PM »
Tanking your manufacturing industry will tend to do that.

That's a myth. It's possible to have clean air and a prosperous economy. The U.S. is one example of this. Richest country in human history yet great air- far better than the world average.

The value added by U.S. factories is more than $2 trillion a year.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-manufacturing-dead-output-has-doubled-in-three-decades-2016-03-28

Technology and new ways of organizing work have revolutionized the American factory. Today, U.S. factories produce twice as much stuff as they did in 1984, but with one-third fewer workers.

Prosperous for some in the big cities (and even there given the rip off housing prices).  How many unemployed working class people switched their vote to Trump again? 

Offline gogators!

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #315 on: May 14, 2017, 05:09:39 PM »
Tanking your manufacturing industry will tend to do that.

That's a myth. It's possible to have clean air and a prosperous economy. The U.S. is one example of this. Richest country in human history yet great air- far better than the world average.

The value added by U.S. factories is more than $2 trillion a year.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-manufacturing-dead-output-has-doubled-in-three-decades-2016-03-28

Technology and new ways of organizing work have revolutionized the American factory. Today, U.S. factories produce twice as much stuff as they did in 1984, but with one-third fewer workers.

Prosperous for some in the big cities (and even there given the rip off housing prices).  How many unemployed working class people switched their vote to Trump again?
New research shows that Trump voters were more concerned with the loss of "American culture" than with the economy. They were upset that "the times they are a-changin.'"

Offline gogators!

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #316 on: May 14, 2017, 05:10:42 PM »
Dono-van the man, how's the mask working out? Does it impede your breathing?

Offline MayorHaggar

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #317 on: May 14, 2017, 05:45:24 PM »
Seems like every day I see a Korean minivan or scooter that is spewing massive clouds of black or gray smoke out of the back of it.

Meanwhile Californians bitch about the smog tests that keep their skies blue.

This could have some legs.  Actually Korea has some good regulations for car emissions, but are these regulations enforced? 

Considering how often I see vehicles of every type (minivans, SUV's, small cars, scooters) spraying out a cloud of black or gray smoke, I'm going to go with "no."

You have to get your car tested for problems every 2 years but the test results are merely a recommendation, there's zero legal requirement or incentive for you to actually get your smogmobile fixed up. Just like all the laws here.
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Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on Yesterday at 01:40:32 PM

    Trump is a liar and a con man.

donovan

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #318 on: May 15, 2017, 10:24:37 PM »
Korea to shut old coal-fired power plants to fight air pollution

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Cheong Wa Dae expects halting operations of eight plants will reduce the generation of fine dust by 1 to 2 percent.

Anyone from 은정초 on this site?^^

Offline gogators!

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #319 on: May 16, 2017, 09:04:47 AM »
Korea to shut old coal-fired power plants to fight air pollution

Quote
Cheong Wa Dae expects halting operations of eight plants will reduce the generation of fine dust by 1 to 2 percent.

Anyone from 은정초 on this site?^^
Quote
Under the plan, eight of 10 plants which were established 30 years ago and earlier will stop operations for the month of June. Starting from next year, the 10 plants will be shut down from March to June.

The 10 plants will be permanently shut down within Moon’s term.
Should we expect a return to government mandates limiting air conditioning use?