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Author Topic: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?  (Read 97117 times)

Offline gogators!

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #280 on: May 08, 2017, 04:14:22 PM »
Anyone who smokes while living in China or Korea is a damn fool.

Does that include Koreans? Specifically, the guy who smokes outside my kitchen window in the wee hours of the night?

That's because years of brain-washing liberal education have led people to be robots and not think for themselves.

You're right. Smoking robots is almost always merely a mechanical issue. Most AI scientists agree that robots who choose to smoke by their own volition is still at least 20 years away.
It certainly includes the dudes who started the forest fires last weekend. Smokey the Bear has a lot of work to do in SK.

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #281 on: May 09, 2017, 07:43:56 AM »
Korea was a developing country and must have been polluted as hell.  Some older expats on here described living in Seoul in the 90's as having their throats and nose burning from the pollution back then.

South Korea's PM2.5 air pollution, mean annual exposure (micrograms per cubic meter)

1990: 25.556
1995: 25.675
2000: 25.778
2005: 25.975
2010: 25.179
2015: 28.664

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.PM25.MC.M3?locations=KR

TL;DR: Getting worse.


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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #282 on: May 09, 2017, 07:53:43 AM »
Canada's PM2.5 air pollution, mean annual exposure (micrograms per cubic meter)

1990: 7.975
1995: 7.782
2000: 7.824
2005: 8.114
2010: 7.302
2015: 7.179

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.PM25.MC.M3?locations=CA

Low and going down.

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #283 on: May 09, 2017, 08:05:32 AM »
USA's PM2.5 air pollution, mean annual exposure (micrograms per cubic meter)

1990: 11.376
1995: 10.874
2000: 10.696
2005: 10.421
2010:   8.613
2015:   8.441

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.PM25.MC.M3?locations=US

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #284 on: May 09, 2017, 08:11:57 AM »
Australia's PM2.5 air pollution, mean annual exposure (micrograms per cubic meter)

1990: 6.714
1995: 6.743
2000: 6.804
2005: 6.607
2010: 5.930
2015: 5.898

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.PM25.MC.M3?locations=AU

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #285 on: May 09, 2017, 08:18:21 AM »
USA's PM2.5 air pollution, mean annual exposure (micrograms per cubic meter)

1990: 11.376
1995: 10.874
2000: 10.696
2005: 10.421
2010:   8.613
2015:   8.441

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.PM25.MC.M3?locations=US

Tanking your manufacturing industry will tend to do that.

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #286 on: May 09, 2017, 08:26:04 AM »
United Kingdom's PM2.5 air pollution, mean annual exposure (micrograms per cubic meter)

1990: 14.834
1995: 13.793
2000: 12.975
2005: 12.307
2010: 12.092
2015: 12.412

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.PM25.MC.M3?locations=GB

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #287 on: May 09, 2017, 08:30:53 AM »
New Zealand's PM2.5 air pollution, mean annual exposure (micrograms per cubic meter)

1990: 6.261
1995: 6.258
2000: 6.235
2005: 6.098
2010: 5.417
2015: 5.547

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.PM25.MC.M3?locations=NZ

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #288 on: May 09, 2017, 08:37:46 AM »
Ireland's PM2.5 air pollution, mean annual exposure (micrograms per cubic meter)

1990: 10.798
1995: 10.264
2000:   9.855
2005:   9.262
2010:   9.315
2015:   9.800

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.PM25.MC.M3?locations=IE

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #289 on: May 09, 2017, 08:53:10 AM »
Tanking your manufacturing industry will tend to do that.

That's a myth. It's possible to have clean air and a prosperous economy. The U.S. is one example of this. Richest country in human history yet great air- far better than the world average.

The value added by U.S. factories is more than $2 trillion a year.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-manufacturing-dead-output-has-doubled-in-three-decades-2016-03-28

Technology and new ways of organizing work have revolutionized the American factory. Today, U.S. factories produce twice as much stuff as they did in 1984, but with one-third fewer workers.

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #290 on: May 09, 2017, 09:54:12 AM »
Tanking your manufacturing industry will tend to do that.

That's a myth. It's possible to have clean air and a prosperous economy. The U.S. is one example of this. Richest country in human history yet great air- far better than the world average.

The value added by U.S. factories is more than $2 trillion a year.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-manufacturing-dead-output-has-doubled-in-three-decades-2016-03-28

Technology and new ways of organizing work have revolutionized the American factory. Today, U.S. factories produce twice as much stuff as they did in 1984, but with one-third fewer workers.

While the longterm benefits may yet to be realised, it's also possible the wage gap is here to stay. The US economy is strong as a whole, or at least relative strong as a whole. Places where factories exist are doing far worse.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-more-robots-fewer-jobs/

Part of the reason the air in Toronto is so much better than before is because there are so many fewer operations on the American Great Lakes side.
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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #291 on: May 09, 2017, 10:16:28 AM »
People in rust belt cities should move to where the jobs are and/or acquire skills. Robots are good. Increased efficiency is good. This could lead to less working hours required to live a comfortable lifestyle. Technology rocks! I'm a fan!

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #292 on: May 09, 2017, 10:21:46 AM »
The reason American air is getting better is because of pollution controls. If factories are producing twice as much as thirty years ago and the population is growing (meaning more cars, more consumers, etc.), then the reduction in pollution is quite an accomplishment. This is due to better laws (from Obama and others) and better technology.

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #293 on: May 09, 2017, 10:22:22 AM »
Tanking your manufacturing industry will tend to do that.

That's a myth. It's possible to have clean air and a prosperous economy. The U.S. is one example of this. Richest country in human history yet great air- far better than the world average.

The value added by U.S. factories is more than $2 trillion a year.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-manufacturing-dead-output-has-doubled-in-three-decades-2016-03-28

Technology and new ways of organizing work have revolutionized the American factory. Today, U.S. factories produce twice as much stuff as they did in 1984, but with one-third fewer workers.

While the longterm benefits may yet to be realised, it's also possible the wage gap is here to stay. The US economy is strong as a whole, or at least relative strong as a whole. Places where factories exist are doing far worse.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-more-robots-fewer-jobs/

Part of the reason the air in Toronto is so much better than before is because there are so many fewer operations on the American Great Lakes side.

That was my point.

Closing heavy industry, steel mills, and the fossil-powered energy that fed them are were where those gains come from.

High-tech, new tech = clean tech in most cases.

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #294 on: May 09, 2017, 10:25:28 AM »
The reason American air is getting better is because of pollution controls. If factories are producing twice as much as thirty years ago and the population is growing (meaning more cars, more consumers, etc.), then the reduction in pollution is quite an accomplishment. This is due to better laws (from Obama and others) and better technology.

Nope.

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #295 on: May 09, 2017, 10:27:10 AM »
Longer timescale:

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #296 on: May 09, 2017, 10:30:53 AM »
Why not look at production as a whole rather than just one single area? Otherwise, you look like a reporter for RT.

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #297 on: May 09, 2017, 10:37:19 AM »
OK, you were confused about what I wrote...

More people living in the US = more cars on the road (because there's not good public transport that is widely used in most of the country is what I meant). But there's been an improvement in fuel efficiency standards which translates to less pollution.

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #298 on: May 09, 2017, 10:39:49 AM »
Why not look at production as a whole rather than just one single area? Otherwise, you look like a reporter for RT.
Because air pollution is reported locally, and I was talking about the collapse of heavy manufacturing in the USA having an impact on those locations.

More efficient cars are having an impact as well, no question.

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Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #299 on: May 09, 2017, 10:42:49 AM »
Why not look at production as a whole rather than just one single area? Otherwise, you look like a reporter for RT.
Because air pollution is reported locally, and I was talking about the collapse of heavy manufacturing in the USA having an impact on those locations.

More efficient cars are having an impact as well, no question.

... and you see increased pollution due to increased heavy manufacturing (and car ownership, to a lesser extent) in China and Korea as the counterpoint.