March 25, 2019, 07:31:19 PM


Author Topic: Judging Others  (Read 1511 times)

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Judging Others
« on: February 27, 2019, 09:35:20 AM »
I really hate when people say, "You shouldn't judge people."

Why? Why on Earth not? I do understand the idea of pettiness, this is obvious. As in, if you saw a guy at the mall food court with tomato sauce on his shirt and you said, "Wow, that guy is probably the dumbest guy in the universe. What a slob and he is worthless." Obviously, this is an extreme example but that's how points are made.

I just find a lot of people throw out this line with wanton abandon. "What a stupid hat."

YOU SHOULDN'T JUDGE PEOPLE.

Again, why not? Did I call the guy wearing the hat stupid? No. Did I say anything horribly offensive? It's a hat.

We need to judge others. This is how we have some people who are friends and some people we don't want to touch withe a ten foot pole.

Gad Saad is very cogent and bang on with this video.

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Re: Judging Others
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2019, 09:45:15 AM »
I really hate when people say, "You shouldn't judge people."

Why? Why on Earth not? I do understand the idea of pettiness, this is obvious. As in, if you saw a guy at the mall food court with tomato sauce on his shirt and you said, "Wow, that guy is probably the dumbest guy in the universe. What a slob and he is worthless." Obviously, this is an extreme example but that's how points are made.

I just find a lot of people throw out this line with wanton abandon. "What a stupid hat."

YOU SHOULDN'T JUDGE PEOPLE.

Again, why not? Did I call the guy wearing the hat stupid? No. Did I say anything horribly offensive? It's a hat.

We need to judge others. This is how we have some people who are friends and some people we don't want to touch withe a ten foot pole.

Gad Saad is very cogent and bang on with this video.



In your example you aren't judging others. You are merely judging the hat.

Judging others is sometimes ok....depends what basis you are judging them from though. If we know them well and they are a less than delightful person...then we make an informed judgment on them being a less than delightful person.

Judging someone in the street based on appearance or a brief encounter is less ok...though probably natural.

I saw something recently that said "The first thought that goes through your head is what you've been conditioned to think, the second is what kind of person you are". So if you see someone horrendously obese you might make the snap judgement of "Lazy" etc. In the second you might reprimand yourself (internally obviously) and question whether there might be something you don't know about this person.

I'm not sure how relevant that quote is...but I like it. I'm not perfect but I'm definitely working on being less judgmental.

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Re: Judging Others
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2019, 09:49:02 AM »

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Re: Judging Others
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2019, 10:08:03 AM »
I think judging others is so fine so long as it isn't cruel or annoying. Judging the guy with mustard on his shirt is petty, like you said, and seems needlessly cruel. People who walk around spewing their opinions of random things, on the other hand, are just annoying (ex. giving unprompted judgements about hats and other things). In other words, I think there's a time and a place for judging people.

I'd recommend this

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1065486.In_Praise_of_Prejudice

Could you say a bit more about it... From what I've read, the gist seems to be that liberals, in an attempt to rid the world of prejudice, have only replaced the old with some new. I would agree that there's no reason to turn traditions on their head just for sake of doing so, but is the only other alternative to accept them uncritically? Clearly, I haven't read the book, so please correct me if I've misinterpreted what I've read about the book.

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Re: Judging Others
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2019, 10:22:48 AM »
From the inside cover

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Re: Judging Others
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2019, 10:28:07 AM »
Judging is for loosers.

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Re: Judging Others
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2019, 10:30:35 AM »
Judging is for loosers.

It's losers, you imbecile. God, you are just the WORST kind of person. 
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Offline Ronnie Omelettes

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Re: Judging Others
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2019, 01:18:41 PM »
i grew up in a fairly deprived area, and i still have regret from when i was in elementary school that is used to tease a kid or two about the fact they lived in council housing.  thing was, a year or two later, they became my best friends.  in the late-80s, when I was at school that seemed an okay thing to do. but as a teacher here, I look back and feel bad for the fact that I used to judge people like that. at school, we had the 'sticks and stones' thing drummed into us, but I know that words do hurt.  that kind of regret has spurred me onto not judging people.

in Korea, it's difficult because to most Koreans a first impression (fat, thin, young, old, bald, rich, poor) are still very much a way to judge people or put them in their place.  i was at a wedding last year with my Korean friend and we walked past one of the bride rooms (not our friend) and looked in briefly, and then carried on walking. 'oooh, she was ugly', came a response as we were waiting for an elevator.  I wasn't particularly bothered by it, but it wasn't a thing that sprang to my mind.  you can have your opinion, fine, but it seems a little superficial to me, without knowing that person I think it's best not to say anything than say something negative. 

also, the fat thing.  currently, I'm reading 'The Truth about Fat' by Anthony Warner (The Angry Chef) and find it very interesting about how obese/overweight people are judged immediately and how we think they are like that because they eat too much and don't move, which isn't true 100% of the time.  The media doesn't help with the 'obese epidemic' that is splashed around a lot, when essentially it's an endemic, as an epidemic is a rapid increase, whereas obesity is rising at a natural level.  it all has an effect on how people judge each other. 

in short, and on topic, i stopped judging people but I have my naughty judgement of people who wear 'MAGA' hats or people who go to Trump's rallies.  nothing tells me more that person is a dimwit. 

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Re: Judging Others
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2019, 01:31:38 PM »
i grew up in a fairly deprived area, and i still have regret from when i was in elementary school that is used to tease a kid or two about the fact they lived in council housing.  thing was, a year or two later, they became my best friends.  in the late-80s, when I was at school that seemed an okay thing to do. but as a teacher here, I look back and feel bad for the fact that I used to judge people like that. at school, we had the 'sticks and stones' thing drummed into us, but I know that words do hurt.  that kind of regret has spurred me onto not judging people.

in Korea, it's difficult because to most Koreans a first impression (fat, thin, young, old, bald, rich, poor) are still very much a way to judge people or put them in their place.  i was at a wedding last year with my Korean friend and we walked past one of the bride rooms (not our friend) and looked in briefly, and then carried on walking. 'oooh, she was ugly', came a response as we were waiting for an elevator.  I wasn't particularly bothered by it, but it wasn't a thing that sprang to my mind.  you can have your opinion, fine, but it seems a little superficial to me, without knowing that person I think it's best not to say anything than say something negative. 

also, the fat thing.  currently, I'm reading 'The Truth about Fat' by Anthony Warner (The Angry Chef) and find it very interesting about how obese/overweight people are judged immediately and how we think they are like that because they eat too much and don't move, which isn't true 100% of the time.  The media doesn't help with the 'obese epidemic' that is splashed around a lot, when essentially it's an endemic, as an epidemic is a rapid increase, whereas obesity is rising at a natural level.  it all has an effect on how people judge each other. 

in short, and on topic, i stopped judging people but I have my naughty judgement of people who wear 'MAGA' hats or people who go to Trump's rallies.  nothing tells me more that person is a dimwit.

What Dalrymple is trying to say in his book is you have to learn when you should judge and when you shouldn't. Obviously being bald or ugly isn't something anyone can help but being obese usually is. Let's say you prided yourself on being non-judgmental and employed a morbidly obese person at your company. That person subsequently took lots of time off for health reasons and the rest of the staff had to do extra work to cover. So they might justifiably complain about your lack of judgement in employing someone in that condition. Your rush to be non-judgmental negatively affected others in the long run.   

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I have my naughty judgement of people who wear 'MAGA' hats or people who go to Trump's rallies.  nothing tells me more that person is a dimwit.


You think people who go to anti-Trump rallies or ***** walks and the like are beacons of intelligence?

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Re: Judging Others
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2019, 01:37:52 PM »

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Re: Judging Others
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2019, 01:40:00 PM »
i grew up in a fairly deprived area, and i still have regret from when i was in elementary school that is used to tease a kid or two about the fact they lived in council housing.  thing was, a year or two later, they became my best friends.  in the late-80s, when I was at school that seemed an okay thing to do. but as a teacher here, I look back and feel bad for the fact that I used to judge people like that. at school, we had the 'sticks and stones' thing drummed into us, but I know that words do hurt.  that kind of regret has spurred me onto not judging people.

in Korea, it's difficult because to most Koreans a first impression (fat, thin, young, old, bald, rich, poor) are still very much a way to judge people or put them in their place.  i was at a wedding last year with my Korean friend and we walked past one of the bride rooms (not our friend) and looked in briefly, and then carried on walking. 'oooh, she was ugly', came a response as we were waiting for an elevator.  I wasn't particularly bothered by it, but it wasn't a thing that sprang to my mind.  you can have your opinion, fine, but it seems a little superficial to me, without knowing that person I think it's best not to say anything than say something negative. 

also, the fat thing.  currently, I'm reading 'The Truth about Fat' by Anthony Warner (The Angry Chef) and find it very interesting about how obese/overweight people are judged immediately and how we think they are like that because they eat too much and don't move, which isn't true 100% of the time.  The media doesn't help with the 'obese epidemic' that is splashed around a lot, when essentially it's an endemic, as an epidemic is a rapid increase, whereas obesity is rising at a natural level.  it all has an effect on how people judge each other. 

in short, and on topic, i stopped judging people but I have my naughty judgement of people who wear 'MAGA' hats or people who go to Trump's rallies.  nothing tells me more that person is a dimwit.

What Dalrymple is trying to say in his book is you have to learn when you should judge and when you shouldn't. Obviously being bald or ugly isn't something anyone can help but being obese usually is. Let's say you prided yourself on being non-judgmental and employed a morbidly obese person at your company. That person subsequently took lots of time off for health reasons and the rest of the staff had to do extra work to cover. So they might justifiably complain about your lack of judgement in employing someone in that condition. Your rush to be non-judgmental negatively affected others in the long run.   

Quote
I have my naughty judgement of people who wear 'MAGA' hats or people who go to Trump's rallies.  nothing tells me more that person is a dimwit.


You think people who go to anti-Trump rallies or ***** walks and the like are beacons of intelligence?

I disagree with that.

For the simple reason that we tend to look at overweight people and immediately assume they are unhealthy. This is simply not the case for many. We don't do this about people who are within normal weight boundaries.

If someone was "normal" weight went off sick...that would be fine? Thin people can be WAY more unhealthy than fat people.

Maybe if you asked them questions in the interview about their health (anyone whatever size) and they said they were really unhealthy and had a lot of time of previously THEN people could complain.

I know tons of people who are overweight that run marathons and eat way better than I do.

Just because an overweight person may be unhealthy...doesn't give people the right to assume it before hand.

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Re: Judging Others
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2019, 01:48:17 PM »
There's overweight and there's a level of obesity that affects a person's health. That's another thing you'd have to judge when employing someone.

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Re: Judging Others
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2019, 01:51:39 PM »
There's overweight and there's a level of obesity that affects a person's health. That's another thing you'd have to judge when employing someone.

No. Unless you're going to judge EVERYONE'S health.

Maybe they shouldn't employ smokers either? Maybe they should request everyone's detailed medical history and family history too?

You can't just look at someone and decide they are unhealthy and it would affect their performance. That's not ok.

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Re: Judging Others
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2019, 02:26:06 PM »
I judge people all the time. I judge cultures and attitudes, opinions, morals and ethics too.

Who cares? The opinions of people whose opinion I don't give a tosh about do not matter. I feel everyone should feel the same.

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Re: Judging Others
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2019, 03:01:34 PM »
There's overweight and there's a level of obesity that affects a person's health. That's another thing you'd have to judge when employing someone.

No. Unless you're going to judge EVERYONE'S health.

Maybe they shouldn't employ smokers either? Maybe they should request everyone's detailed medical history and family history too?

You can't just look at someone and decide they are unhealthy and it would affect their performance. That's not ok.

Firstly for some jobs you need a certain level of physical fitness, so for those, of course you're going to judge people unfavourably who look unhealthy.

Secondly, all job processes are a mixture of judging people for things they can and can't help. E.g. their intelligence, how articulate they are, if they're well presented or not, how fast they can think on their feet etc.. etc.. why should judging them on their size not be OK but judging them on how they talk, for example, be OK? Both of these things might be important factors for the employer. 

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Re: Judging Others
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2019, 03:06:57 PM »
There's overweight and there's a level of obesity that affects a person's health. That's another thing you'd have to judge when employing someone.

No. Unless you're going to judge EVERYONE'S health.

Maybe they shouldn't employ smokers either? Maybe they should request everyone's detailed medical history and family history too?

You can't just look at someone and decide they are unhealthy and it would affect their performance. That's not ok.

Firstly for some jobs you need a certain level of physical fitness, so for those, of course you're going to judge people unfavourably who look unhealthy.

Secondly, all job processes are a mixture of judging people for things they can and can't help. E.g. their intelligence, how articulate they are, if they're well presented or not, how fast they can think on their feet etc.. etc.. why should judging them on their size not be OK but judging them on how they talk, for example, be OK? Both of these things might be important factors for the employer.

If that were the case you wouldn't just look at them and decide, would you? Anyone who went for the job would need a physical. We can't assume that skinny people have physical fitness...that's insane.

If that person has an interview and proves that they can do the job and they are the best candidate we shouldn't be judging them on how they look. It's irrelevant. How they speak might impact the job....they might need to be understood clearly. Your examples don't quite fit. What about age? An old dude comes along and is PERFECT for the job...does he not get hired because he's old and might die soon? Obviously he's poor of health being old, right?


I bet you'd be up in arms if it happened to you.

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Re: Judging Others
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2019, 04:02:03 PM »
There's overweight and there's a level of obesity that affects a person's health. That's another thing you'd have to judge when employing someone.

No. Unless you're going to judge EVERYONE'S health.

Maybe they shouldn't employ smokers either? Maybe they should request everyone's detailed medical history and family history too?

You can't just look at someone and decide they are unhealthy and it would affect their performance. That's not ok.

Firstly for some jobs you need a certain level of physical fitness, so for those, of course you're going to judge people unfavourably who look unhealthy.

Secondly, all job processes are a mixture of judging people for things they can and can't help. E.g. their intelligence, how articulate they are, if they're well presented or not, how fast they can think on their feet etc.. etc.. why should judging them on their size not be OK but judging them on how they talk, for example, be OK? Both of these things might be important factors for the employer.

If that were the case you wouldn't just look at them and decide, would you? Anyone who went for the job would need a physical. We can't assume that skinny people have physical fitness...that's insane.

If that person has an interview and proves that they can do the job and they are the best candidate we shouldn't be judging them on how they look. It's irrelevant. How they speak might impact the job....they might need to be understood clearly. Your examples don't quite fit. What about age? An old dude comes along and is PERFECT for the job...does he not get hired because he's old and might die soon? Obviously he's poor of health being old, right?




There are loads of ways a person's morbid obesity might affect their job, even if it's not a very physical one. What happens if the company's on the 10th floor and the lift beaks down one day? There's a business trip and the company has to buy two plane seats. There's a fire alarm, they have to help re-arrange the office furniture, they have to walk somewhere for some reason, there's an office team building away day, they can't fit in certain chairs etc....etc.. And all that is on top of the strong likelihood that they'll need more time off sick.

Companies don't always have the resources to organise physicals for potential staff.

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I bet you'd be up in arms if it happened to you.

I got turned down for labouring jobs when I was younger for looking too slight. I didn't see it as a breach of my human rights.

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Re: Judging Others
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2019, 09:29:46 AM »
There's overweight and there's a level of obesity that affects a person's health. That's another thing you'd have to judge when employing someone.

No. Unless you're going to judge EVERYONE'S health.

Maybe they shouldn't employ smokers either? Maybe they should request everyone's detailed medical history and family history too?

You can't just look at someone and decide they are unhealthy and it would affect their performance. That's not ok.

Firstly for some jobs you need a certain level of physical fitness, so for those, of course you're going to judge people unfavourably who look unhealthy.

Secondly, all job processes are a mixture of judging people for things they can and can't help. E.g. their intelligence, how articulate they are, if they're well presented or not, how fast they can think on their feet etc.. etc.. why should judging them on their size not be OK but judging them on how they talk, for example, be OK? Both of these things might be important factors for the employer.

If that were the case you wouldn't just look at them and decide, would you? Anyone who went for the job would need a physical. We can't assume that skinny people have physical fitness...that's insane.

If that person has an interview and proves that they can do the job and they are the best candidate we shouldn't be judging them on how they look. It's irrelevant. How they speak might impact the job....they might need to be understood clearly. Your examples don't quite fit. What about age? An old dude comes along and is PERFECT for the job...does he not get hired because he's old and might die soon? Obviously he's poor of health being old, right?




There are loads of ways a person's morbid obesity might affect their job, even if it's not a very physical one. What happens if the company's on the 10th floor and the lift beaks down one day? There's a business trip and the company has to buy two plane seats. There's a fire alarm, they have to help re-arrange the office furniture, they have to walk somewhere for some reason, there's an office team building away day, they can't fit in certain chairs etc....etc.. And all that is on top of the strong likelihood that they'll need more time off sick.

Companies don't always have the resources to organise physicals for potential staff.

Quote
I bet you'd be up in arms if it happened to you.

I got turned down for labouring jobs when I was younger for looking too slight. I didn't see it as a breach of my human rights.

BULL. So what you can't be employed if you're in a wheelchair? JUST IN CASE the lift breaks down? What?! Only people who can take ten flights of stairs can be employed in an office up there? Come on now.

 Plenty of skinny people couldn't do that stuff also, plenty of fat people could. People can have all kinds of hidden disabilities too. You cannot judge just by looking at someone.

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Re: Judging Others
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2019, 09:42:35 AM »
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BULL. So what you can't be employed if you're in a wheelchair? JUST IN CASE the lift breaks down? What?! Only people who can take ten flights of stairs can be employed in an office up there? Come on now

You're just picking on one thing I said now, I mentioned a load of things. It's a cumulative effect you take into account along with everything else. I'm not saying I'd never employ a morbidly obese person, I'm just saying if there are two roughly similar candidates and one of them happens to be morbidly obese,  I'd choose the other one.  Not because of the way they look but because of the way their build could affect the way they perform at work and how much sick leave they'd probably need to take. Sure, it's not 100% sure they'll take extra sick leave or they won't be able to do stuff at work but you're never 100% sure of anything when you judge someone at a job interview. A guy who mumbles and stutters in an interview might actually be very articulate in a work situation but you have to go on what you're presented with.

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People can have all kinds of hidden disabilities too.

Don't you have to list those on the application form these days?

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Re: Judging Others
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2019, 09:55:06 AM »
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BULL. So what you can't be employed if you're in a wheelchair? JUST IN CASE the lift breaks down? What?! Only people who can take ten flights of stairs can be employed in an office up there? Come on now

You're just picking on one thing I said now, I mentioned a load of things. It's a cumulative effect you take into account along with everything else. I'm not saying I'd never employ a morbidly obese person, I'm just saying if there are two roughly similar candidates and one of them happens to be morbidly obese,  I'd choose the other one.  Not because of the way they look but because of the way their build could affect the way they perform at work and how much sick leave they'd probably need to take. Sure, it's not 100% sure they'll take extra sick leave or they won't be able to do stuff at work but you're never 100% sure of anything when you judge someone at a job interview. A guy who mumbles and stutters in an interview might actually be very articulate in a work situation but you have to go on what you're presented with.

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People can have all kinds of hidden disabilities too.

Don't you have to list those on the application form these days?

Not necessarily and the ones you do have to disclose can not lead to discrimination. There are laws to prevent that type of discrimination.

Unless your gonna have everyone do star jumps at the interview...it's not the same as the stuttering guy. You have no evidence that one candidate is healthier...weight alone is not enough to make that judgement.