March 27, 2019, 12:28:32 AM


Author Topic: Is this the first generation that's dumber than the previous?  (Read 1865 times)

Online eggieguffer

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Re: Is this the first generation that's dumber than the previous?
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2019, 09:41:17 AM »
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You kind of just made my point. Bravo.

Everyone else made some good points toward debunking it. But you LITERALLY went PAH SNOWFLAKE. Thanks, man

Like Lewis' Law

http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Lewis%27_Law

Say something horrible about men and when they react angrily, well, it just goes to prove how horrible they are.

Offline tylerthegloob

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Re: Is this the first generation that's dumber than the previous?
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2019, 10:19:12 AM »
I read this book recently on the subject. I don't think it was particularly well written but he was pretty young at the time (he was actually at College while writing it, I think). Yes I know it was written by a Republican and he would say this, etc... but there are a lot of facts in it compared to anecdotes. 

https://www.amazon.com/Brainwashed-Universities-Indoctrinate-Americas-Youth/dp/1595559795

I think Ben Shapiro is probably very smart and he's built a very successful brand around doing what he does. However, I do not think Ben Shapiro is very honest. Just look at that title. He isn't really trying to change anyone's mind, he's just selling people what they already believe. I'm not sure what kinds of facts he has in there (feel free to enlighten me), but I think the "universities are indoctrinating the youth" thing is exaggerated.

No one (as far as I know) is forced to take any "indoctrination" seminars. Most of us willingly sign up for those,  :wink: People like my freshman year roommate (very conservative) do not sign up for those types of "indoctrination" courses. Like I said earlier, even within those courses, I saw a surprising (for Ben Shapiro) amount of dissent against the professors.

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Is this the first generation that's dumber than the previous?
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2019, 10:28:49 AM »
If you go to a select group of old people and tell them you don't think Christopher Columbus was a genius who deserves a national holiday, you will also be ostracized or shut down. As someone who has actually taken a few of these classes, I think you'd be surprised about how much conversation is allowed (even by whites! even in a "black politics" course! wow~).
Yeah, but there's a difference between that being said at the barber shop or over beers vs. in a classroom.

That being said, you're spot on about classes and how they don't always conform to stereotype. My Urban Politics class was rather low on race, and about a good 60% was on the current state of Detroit politics and the corruption of the Kwame Kilpatrick administration. The professor basically said  2/3rds of the textbook was drivel written by people who had no real knowledge of politics and made a bunch of allegations about Kwame, about 9/10ths of which later turned out to be true. One of the best classes I had- "Everything these people are teaching you is bullshit. It's all about money. City Hall is not where decisions are made. It's at Sweet Georgia Brown's." Other professors would talk in neutral/generic/"progressive" terms about Kwame. Based on the "You know what you're talking about if your predictions come true" model, it showed who to listen to and who not to. I think it also helped that my prof was also a small business owner and investor and thus didn't have his head stuffed full of academic bullshit.

Sounds about as conservative and anti-SJW as you can get.

I think your analysis of the situation we currently find ourselves in today is remarkable. There is a lot of thought and actual scientific data packed into such a short amount of writing, though you referenced it indirectly (that base of knowledge does come in handy in these instances ;D), I am familiar with the literature and data you are probably referring to. I think you hit the nail on the head. This was a fantastically succinct diagnoses of what is wrong with today's generation.

Check out Haidt's "Coddling of the American Mind" and Jean Twenge's book "iGen" and the radical shifts in childhood behavior and development that has occurred since the mid-90s and the sharp increases in depression and suicide rates.

No one (as far as I know) is forced to take any "indoctrination" seminars. Most of us willingly sign up for those,  :wink: People like my freshman year roommate (very conservative) do not sign up for those types of "indoctrination" courses. Like I said earlier, even within those courses, I saw a surprising (for Ben Shapiro) amount of dissent against the professors.
I think to some extent this is true and to some extent it is not. Much of the faculty is still older and thus maintains traditional levels of openness. However, I think as younger people begin teaching courses, you might see a significant shift. I think it might also vary significantly depending on the institution.

This is also MUCH more pronounced in public school education. While there wasn't much indoctrination in college (if any?) There were significant amounts in primary and secondary school. However, this might vary from community to community. I went to school in a hyper-liberal school district, so it's not much of a surprise that the school system would reflect the values of the community.

I think a lot of this pressure to conform MIGHT take place more at the research-level and what is published, and it might not be overt, but there might be subtle pressures and this might be confined more to the social sciences. 

But the fact is that the political breakdown of professors is heavily left in some places and even under the best of circumstances and intentions, there will inevitably be unconscious bias that will filter through. However, I think many educators are acknowledging the dangers of this and are supporting measures to broaden things, so I wouldn't go full-panic.

Offline tylerthegloob

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Re: Is this the first generation that's dumber than the previous?
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2019, 10:49:14 AM »
2/3rds of the textbook was drivel written by people who had no real knowledge of politics

"Everything these people are teaching you is bullshit. It's all about money. City Hall is not where decisions are made. It's at Sweet Georgia Brown's."

Based on the "You know what you're talking about if your predictions come true" model, it showed who to listen to and who not to. I think it also helped that my prof was also a small business owner and investor and thus didn't have his head stuffed full of academic bullshit.

I think the right and left can both agree that what is in textbooks is nonsense (they just disagree on which specific parts). This is one of the reasons I think rote memorization is not useful. Having discussions and actively debating the text(book)s prepares students much better for what's ahead of them.

Side note: I don't think that model is very accurate or useful without taking into account the methods used to come to the prediction. IMO it's all about the methods, not the people. Good methods lead to good predictions.

No one (as far as I know) is forced to take any "indoctrination" seminars. Most of us willingly sign up for those,  :wink: People like my freshman year roommate (very conservative) do not sign up for those types of "indoctrination" courses. Like I said earlier, even within those courses, I saw a surprising (for Ben Shapiro) amount of dissent against the professors.

This is also MUCH more pronounced in public school education... However, this might vary from community to community. I went to school in a hyper-liberal school district, so it's not much of a surprise that the school system would reflect the values of the community.
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Again, I think the right and left can both agree that there are big problems with public school education (just not necessarily on what those problems are). I was in a similar situation in my school district. I learned the most about other points of view when we discussed them. To be clear, I learned the most about other points of view when students were given more opportunities to teach and lead discussions. Of course teacher-centered learning is going to look like liberal indoctrination when most teachers happen to be liberal. Their biases will always seep into their classes (despite their best efforts).

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Is this the first generation that's dumber than the previous?
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2019, 12:08:21 PM »
I think the right and left can both agree that what is in textbooks is nonsense (they just disagree on which specific parts). This is one of the reasons I think rote memorization is not useful. Having discussions and actively debating the text(book)s prepares students much better for what's ahead of them.
I think it has use for objective information.

But not for interpretation or analysis, which I take it is what you're referring to. I mean I don't think either of us would argue it's not useful to memorize, say, the Bill of Rights in a civics class or some important judicial rulings.

Online LIC

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Re: Is this the first generation that's dumber than the previous?
« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2019, 12:57:34 PM »
I think the young generation are smarter than mine. They're also significantly wimpier; a bunch of crybabies that get offended by anything and everything they disagree with. Everyone's a racist, or a phobe of some type.

I just imagine what would have happened in my day if a person needed a safe space cuz they were offended. Well, I'm sure they still would have been offended when they got up off the ground! Maybe moreso. 

Online NorthStar

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Re: Is this the first generation that's dumber than the previous?
« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2019, 01:09:06 PM »
I think the young generation are smarter than mine. They're also significantly wimpier; a bunch of crybabies that get offended by anything and everything they disagree with. Everyone's a racist, or a phobe of some type.

I just imagine what would have happened in my day if a person needed a safe space cuz they were offended. Well, I'm sure they still would have been offended when they got up off the ground! Maybe moreso.


No, the are not smarter.  Just because they have lightning quick thumbs that enables them to access something on their smartphones, does not equate to being smart. 

But I will agree with you on the other points you made (and the the current generation is dumb enough to fall for all for nonsense). 

Offline debbiem89

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Re: Is this the first generation that's dumber than the previous?
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2019, 01:14:59 PM »
I think the young generation are smarter than mine. They're also significantly wimpier; a bunch of crybabies that get offended by anything and everything they disagree with. Everyone's a racist, or a phobe of some type.

I just imagine what would have happened in my day if a person needed a safe space cuz they were offended. Well, I'm sure they still would have been offended when they got up off the ground! Maybe moreso.

Ahhh here come them rose tinted glasses...."In my day..". Leave it out. I bet the generation before you ragged on you too.

This shout is honestly so boring and overplayed. Moaning about people getting "offended" is such a blanket comment. A lot of them are legitimate and the oldies are just pissed off they can't grab their secretaries asses anymore.

(see how I also made a sweeping generalisation?)

Offline tylerthegloob

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Re: Is this the first generation that's dumber than the previous?
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2019, 01:20:24 PM »

No, the are not smarter.  Just because they have lightning quick thumbs that enables them to access something on their smartphones, does not equate to being smart. 

But I will agree with you on the other points you made (and the the current generation is dumb enough to fall for all for nonsense).

There is a generation that is much more likely to believe "nonsense" online.

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/age-not-politics-predicts-who-shares-fake-news-facebook-study-n957246

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While age proved to be the best predictor of who shared what was determined to be fake news, researchers also found conservative users were more likely to share fake news. Accelerated by algorithms that sort news based on user preferences, social media users tend to share news that reflects their existing beliefs, a phenomenon known as “confirmation bias,” and they make posts that affirm and signal their identity, [the report found/past reports have found].

“We find some evidence that the most conservative users were more likely to share this content—the vast majority of which was pro-Trump in orientation—than were other Facebook users,” the researchers wrote. “Our most robust finding is that the oldest Americans, especially those over 65, were more likely to share fake news to their Facebook friends. This is true even when holding other characteristics—including education, ideology, and partisanship—constant.”

Also linked in that article: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/10/23/younger-americans-are-better-than-older-americans-at-telling-factual-news-statements-from-opinions/
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Beyond digital savviness, the original study found that two other factors have a strong relationship with being able to correctly classify factual and opinion statements: having higher political awareness and more trust in the information from the national news media. Despite the fact that younger adults tend to be less politically aware and trusting of the news media than their elders, they still performed better at this task.

When age is further broken down into four groups, the two youngest age groups – 18- to 29-year-olds and 30- to 49-year-olds – are almost matched in their ability to correctly categorize all five factual and all five opinion statements, and both outpaced those in the two older age groups – 50- to 64-year-olds and those ages 65 and older.

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Is this the first generation that's dumber than the previous?
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2019, 01:56:54 PM »
It's true that the old will fall for those things and the old generally lean conservative.

On the other hand, people aged 16-30 have the least amount of practical experience and knowledge and tend to lean liberal. I think we all agree we know more than we did when we were 18, and have better decision-making skills now.

Is it a case of the old axiom that "Those who aren't a liberal when they're young have no heart? And those that are conservative when they're old have no mind?" Or maybe it's more the reverse these days...

In some ways it is generational. I'm not a huge fan of Chris Matthews, but I really enjoyed this smackdown of Kevin James and it was more of a "generational" thing (even though I'm closer to James' generation). Just have your basic facts and dates down. Yes, you do need some rote and knowledge of "boring stuff". If you don't know the basics, you can really be made to look dumb.


Offline tylerthegloob

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Re: Is this the first generation that's dumber than the previous?
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2019, 02:23:47 PM »
It's true that the old will fall for those things and the old generally lean conservative.

On the other hand, people aged 16-30 have the least amount of practical experience and knowledge and tend to lean liberal. I think we all agree we know more than we did when we were 18, and have better decision-making skills now.

Yes. Old people have been alive longer than young people. This has been and always will be true. I'm not sure what your point is here.

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In some ways it is generational. I'm not a huge fan of Chris Matthews, but I really enjoyed this smackdown of Kevin James and it was more of a "generational" thing (even though I'm closer to James' generation). Just have your basic facts and dates down. Yes, you do need some rote and knowledge of "boring stuff". If you don't know the basics, you can really be made to look dumb.

I'm also not too sure what your point is with this clip, other than it being an example of a smart older guy. Anyway, I never said that you shouldn't know the basics.

You can learn the basics without rote memorization. You mentioned the Bill of Rights earlier. It's probably more useful to learn about the Third Amendment through class discussion than rote memorization. On top of that, I'm not sure how important it is to even have the Third Amendment memorized (in 2019, when you can Google the original text and anything else about it). If you're in a constitutional law class or it's related to your job, then it might be something that you should know for a class discussion (or a TV appearance). However, I don't see why your average American needs that information. I've never had to invoke my Third Amendment rights, nor have I had many casual conversations about it (nor has it even been in the news in the last few decades). As "basic" as that knowledge is, it isn't really useful for the vast majority of people. So, why have them rote memorize some practically useless information when you can instead teach it while also teaching valuable communication or debate skills?

Online zola

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Re: Is this the first generation that's dumber than the previous?
« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2019, 02:24:48 PM »
Would you like to see the examples again?  Oh, I did not get to the misguided social norms that this generation is stupid enough to have bought into.  Actually I could that aspect. For example, a generation of women that think that killing babies is the equivalent to reproduction rights.   

Then again, perhaps the key has been bad parenting?
The current rate of abortions is the lowest it's been in a long time
Kpip! - Martin 2018

Offline JNM

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Online NorthStar

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Re: Is this the first generation that's dumber than the previous?
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2019, 02:28:23 PM »
Would you like to see the examples again?  Oh, I did not get to the misguided social norms that this generation is stupid enough to have bought into.  Actually I could that aspect. For example, a generation of women that think that killing babies is the equivalent to reproduction rights.   

Then again, perhaps the key has been bad parenting?
The current rate of abortions is the lowest it's been in a long time

Well, if you could show some proof regarding that, it would be nice.  However, that does not cover up the issue (especially with recent legislation by those elected by the citizenry...whom do they represent?). 

But, if that is true, what you say, I like it!

Online zola

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Re: Is this the first generation that's dumber than the previous?
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2019, 03:11:46 PM »
Would you like to see the examples again?  Oh, I did not get to the misguided social norms that this generation is stupid enough to have bought into.  Actually I could that aspect. For example, a generation of women that think that killing babies is the equivalent to reproduction rights.   

Then again, perhaps the key has been bad parenting?
The current rate of abortions is the lowest it's been in a long time

Well, if you could show some proof regarding that, it would be nice.  However, that does not cover up the issue (especially with recent legislation by those elected by the citizenry...whom do they represent?). 

But, if that is true, what you say, I like it!

https://www.vox.com/2018/12/3/18119528/abortion-rate-decline-2018-birth-control-iud-pill

Kpip! - Martin 2018

Online SanderB

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Re: Is this the first generation that's dumber than the previous?
« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2019, 04:12:35 PM »
I'm appalled.
Suppose this was said in class by a 17-year-old boy to a girl, would you not step in and lecture the boy on manners and ethics? All she is saying is to stop acting like an obnoxious young boy and you start shooting off in some unscientific #saveallthebabies talking point that only backwarded people believe in.

It reminds me of the Kavanaugh debate I had in class and to my surprise, the boys sided with Kavanaugh! Stating those exact silly talking points as spewed by Fox news.

And the fact that you are a teacher! :huh:

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Offline raysmith

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Re: Is this the first generation that's dumber than the previous?
« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2019, 05:18:17 PM »
I can't answer this question accurately.

However I was teaching a class of year six students in my home country last year.  I was stunned that many of these children could not do basic mathematics.   I'm guessing that 90% of the maths problems they were struggling with were problems I had learned to solve by the completion of year four.   


Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Is this the first generation that's dumber than the previous?
« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2019, 10:12:09 PM »
It reminds me of the Kavanaugh debate I had in class and to my surprise, the boys sided with Kavanaugh! Stating those exact silly talking points as spewed by Fox news.
What? "I'm innocent and I deny these accusations". That Blasey-Ford's claims are completely unsubstantiated by any evidence? That she cannot name where, when, who was there, or how she got home? The fact that the other accusations were found to be not credible and unsubstantiated or even outright disproven? The presumption of innocence before guilt?

Those are silly talking points?

An educator should either further discussion or simply say "It's up to you to make up your own minds and it's not my job."

And yes, if two teenage students are debating abortion, even if it gets heated and personal, educators should stay out of it and let them resolve it and not inject their own personal politics and take sides. Kids need to learn how to debate things and resolve them themselves. It's okay for kids to be rude to each other and learn the consequences of that behavior themselves, without adult interference. They're 17. Teacher, mommy, and daddy aren't always going to be there.

Online SanderB

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Re: Is this the first generation that's dumber than the previous?
« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2019, 10:32:46 PM »
I threw up a little just now.
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Online NorthStar

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Re: Is this the first generation that's dumber than the previous?
« Reply #39 on: February 28, 2019, 07:33:18 AM »
I threw up a little just now.

No doubt.  Most folks in the V.S.B. (Virtue Signaling Brigade) clutch at their pearl necklaces all the time.