March 25, 2019, 08:54:11 PM


Author Topic: Online PGCE  (Read 1066 times)

Online debbiem89

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Re: Online PGCE
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2019, 08:53:04 AM »
Quote
If you are looking to teach in the U.K and you have to talk about how you did your PGCE...distance...in Korea... and have no U.K experience. It's gonna be tough to get a job.

You can always become a supply teacher and make a killing substituting for all the teachers off work with stress.

That is very true! I know a lot of teachers doing just that.

Online alexisalex

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Re: Online PGCE
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2019, 09:02:34 AM »
Quote
If you are looking to teach in the U.K and you have to talk about how you did your PGCE...distance...in Korea... and have no U.K experience. It's gonna be tough to get a job.

You can always become a supply teacher and make a killing substituting for all the teachers off work with stress.

That is very true! I know a lot of teachers doing just that.

I regularly read /r/TeachingUK and that is a depressing place  :sad:

Online Savant

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Re: Online PGCE
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2019, 09:04:51 AM »
My mum got asked to take early retirement a few years ago and she was delighted to get out of the UK school system.

Online waygo0k

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Re: Online PGCE
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2019, 09:24:10 AM »
There's an age limit for it in the U.K? What? haha

If you do it in the U.K you can do it for free and get paid a salary....or get a pretty nice bursary.

It leads to a QTS status mostly too. It's not comparable at all.

If you are looking to teach in the U.K and you have to talk about how you did your PGCE...distance...in Korea... and have no U.K experience. It's gonna be tough to get a job.

However I guess if you really want to stay in Korea and do something productive for your teaching career, it's a great option.

There are 2 main ways to do it for free.

Either the government-funded route through bursaries and scholarships (age limit is/was 27 AFAIR, they might have changed it recently).

The other is through Teach First, where they throw you into the deep end from day 1.

Why go through all that, spend all that time and energy re-settling in the UK when I can literally do the same thing here in Korea during my desk-warming time, while STILL earning?

Luckily, Iím not planning to teach in the UK...and even if I were, the subject areas Iíd be teaching are in dire need of teachers, so much so that they are asking anyone who might have studied those subjects at GCSE level (not UG, nor PG) to teach the classes. Or maybe the UK could one day start churning out Physics and Chemistry degree holders in mass numbers, time will tell.

Online debbiem89

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Re: Online PGCE
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2019, 01:35:39 PM »
There's an age limit for it in the U.K? What? haha

If you do it in the U.K you can do it for free and get paid a salary....or get a pretty nice bursary.

It leads to a QTS status mostly too. It's not comparable at all.

If you are looking to teach in the U.K and you have to talk about how you did your PGCE...distance...in Korea... and have no U.K experience. It's gonna be tough to get a job.

However I guess if you really want to stay in Korea and do something productive for your teaching career, it's a great option.

There are 2 main ways to do it for free.

Either the government-funded route through bursaries and scholarships (age limit is/was 27 AFAIR, they might have changed it recently).

The other is through Teach First, where they throw you into the deep end from day 1.

Why go through all that, spend all that time and energy re-settling in the UK when I can literally do the same thing here in Korea during my desk-warming time, while STILL earning?

Luckily, Iím not planning to teach in the UK...and even if I were, the subject areas Iíd be teaching are in dire need of teachers, so much so that they are asking anyone who might have studied those subjects at GCSE level (not UG, nor PG) to teach the classes. Or maybe the UK could one day start churning out Physics and Chemistry degree holders in mass numbers, time will tell.

It's a little different to that from what I've seen now. There's certainly no age limit.

Schools Direct (or Teach First) you are employed as an unqualified teacher and you study at the same time.

The reasons it's not the same are because 1. It's free 2. It's real teaching experience (c'mon now IS teaching in Korea the same?) 3. You gain QTS Ö.all while being paid.

Sure, I could do it in Korea, it would be easier... but actually where would that PGCE get me outside of Korea? It's hard to know beforehand how well it would be received by employers outside of Korea. I'd love to speak to someone who has finished it.

I mean a PGCE alone...would that make you eligible for better jobs in Korea even? Wouldn't you need a Masters for that?

I'm genuinely asking as I have no idea and I've been looking into this a lot recently.

This might be an option, if I can get my head around it.

Online waygo0k

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Re: Online PGCE
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2019, 05:18:25 PM »
It really depends on what you plan to teach, and where you plan to teach it.

If youíre planning to teach English, history, geography etc...then a PGCE alone wonít cut it, since most international schools require post QTS experience. The supply of teachers in these areas is far greater than the demand.

If, like me, youíre teaching physics, chemistry, biology, math etc, then a PGCE without QTS would be more favourably looked upon, and the school might be willing to consider pre-PGCE experience too. The better schools would be willing to help you get QTS while working for them. Iíve been offered jobs in China and the Middle East in the past even without a PGCE and QTS.

Yes, teaching in a Korean public school isnít the same as teaching in a UK school...but neither is teaching at an international school, and thatís why thereís always a demand for these teachers in the international circuit, because QTS plus experience teaching unruly kids in UK/US state schools doesnít prepare one for the challenges of living and working abroad.

Moreover, it is infinitely easier teaching in korean public schools as an NET, which helps when talking about the workload of working while studying, alongside the stress levels experienced by a newbie UK teacher compared to an experienced NET public school teacher in Korea...Iíd pay £2000 for the lighter workload and reduced stress levels alone. The QTS step is another bridge that needs to be cleared, but itís not as big a challenge as completing the PGCE itself.

A PGCE alone wouldnít guarantee you a better job in Korea, especially in the ESL industry...but it could open doors, especially if you can convince the school to help you gain QTS while working for them (at a lower salary rate than usual for example...which would still be far higher than what any ESL teacher would earn outside international schools).

Online debbiem89

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Re: Online PGCE
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2019, 12:58:41 PM »
It really depends on what you plan to teach, and where you plan to teach it.

If youíre planning to teach English, history, geography etc...then a PGCE alone wonít cut it, since most international schools require post QTS experience. The supply of teachers in these areas is far greater than the demand.

If, like me, youíre teaching physics, chemistry, biology, math etc, then a PGCE without QTS would be more favourably looked upon, and the school might be willing to consider pre-PGCE experience too. The better schools would be willing to help you get QTS while working for them. Iíve been offered jobs in China and the Middle East in the past even without a PGCE and QTS.

Yes, teaching in a Korean public school isnít the same as teaching in a UK school...but neither is teaching at an international school, and thatís why thereís always a demand for these teachers in the international circuit, because QTS plus experience teaching unruly kids in UK/US state schools doesnít prepare one for the challenges of living and working abroad.

Moreover, it is infinitely easier teaching in korean public schools as an NET, which helps when talking about the workload of working while studying, alongside the stress levels experienced by a newbie UK teacher compared to an experienced NET public school teacher in Korea...Iíd pay £2000 for the lighter workload and reduced stress levels alone. The QTS step is another bridge that needs to be cleared, but itís not as big a challenge as completing the PGCE itself.

A PGCE alone wouldnít guarantee you a better job in Korea, especially in the ESL industry...but it could open doors, especially if you can convince the school to help you gain QTS while working for them (at a lower salary rate than usual for example...which would still be far higher than what any ESL teacher would earn outside international schools).

Good points, well made. Thanks! Definitely given me some food for thought, though NOONE wants me attempting to teach them any of the sciences or maths haha.

Offline Ronnie Omelettes

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Re: Online PGCE
« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2019, 01:40:24 PM »
Definitely given me some food for thought, though NOONE wants me attempting to teach them any of the sciences or maths haha.

debbie the maths teacher: okay class, hmmm, ohhh, do you do the stuff in the bracket first, or is it last?
student one:  teacher, you don't know nuffink
debbie:  no wait a minute, I know this one, is it subtraction first?
student two: miss, it's DMAS
debbie:  did you call me a dumbass, Perkins?  get out.


Online debbiem89

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Re: Online PGCE
« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2019, 01:49:25 PM »
Definitely given me some food for thought, though NOONE wants me attempting to teach them any of the sciences or maths haha.

debbie the maths teacher: okay class, hmmm, ohhh, do you do the stuff in the bracket first, or is it last?
student one:  teacher, you don't know nuffink
debbie:  no wait a minute, I know this one, is it subtraction first?
student two: miss, it's DMAS
debbie:  did you call me a dumbass, Perkins?  get out.

Pretty much haha. Damn I actually probably wouldn't know that rule for real.

I lived near school and I hated Maths so I literally started just going home instead haha. Probably be helpful if I'd stuck around.

Offline SanderB

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Re: Online PGCE
« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2019, 06:10:47 PM »
Welcome back home! We need you!

« Last Edit: February 28, 2019, 06:36:57 PM by SanderB »
-Fiat voluntas tua-

Online waygo0k

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Re: Online PGCE
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2019, 08:06:02 AM »
Update:

I also received a conditional offer from my second choice, University of Cumbria...even though I did not complete the application (hence the conditioner offer, instead of unconditional). All they need is proof of my degrees, references and proof of a suitable workplace.

Their tuition fee is around the £3000 mark, compared to Leeds Beckett (around £2000).

For those still interested in doing an online PGCE on the cheap-ish, this is another option.

Online theman3285

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Re: Online PGCE
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2019, 08:37:59 AM »
Thanks for the update. What's the credibility of online qualifications these days? Universally accepted?

Online waygo0k

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Re: Online PGCE
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2019, 08:56:42 AM »
Theyíve come a long way since the early days...many universities donít even put ďonlineĒ on your certificate once youíve completed the course. Iíll have to confirm with the one Iím studying with on this.

But most distance learning courses are widely accepted these days, as long as the university is accredited. The only exception Iíve seen so far is degrees from the Open University, which some governments in the Middle East donít recognise.

Online alexisalex

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Re: Online PGCE
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2019, 10:04:15 AM »
Update:

I also received a conditional offer from my second choice, University of Cumbria...even though I did not complete the application (hence the conditioner offer, instead of unconditional). All they need is proof of my degrees, references and proof of a suitable workplace.

Their tuition fee is around the £3000 mark, compared to Leeds Beckett (around £2000).

For those still interested in doing an online PGCE on the cheap-ish, this is another option.

Nice one; thanks for the additional info!

What kind of information do you have to provide about your workplace?  What proof did you provide to Beckett to satisfy them?

Offline Observer

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Re: Online PGCE
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2019, 11:27:30 AM »
I just have to mention something. If everyone likes this idea so much and wants to do it, great, fine. No skin off my nose. But I think it's interesting that people are avoiding one particular point made by poster waygo0k:
Quote
If youíre planning to teach English, history, geography etc...then a PGCE alone wonít cut it, since most international schools require post QTS experience. The supply of teachers in these areas is far greater than the demand.

If, like me, youíre teaching physics, chemistry, biology, math etc, then a PGCE without QTS would be more favourably looked upon, and the school might be willing to consider pre-PGCE experience too. The better schools would be willing to help you get QTS while working for them. Iíve been offered jobs in China and the Middle East in the past even without a PGCE and QTS.

How many people who are reading this forum are capable of teaching physics, chemistry, biology or math at a high school level?

I mean, seriously. Have people opened up the textbooks and looked at what is required to teach science or math? I've watched my colleagues here at my current school in China teaching physics. I've seen their books and their exams. It's crazy how advanced it is. The kids are often really smart in those subjects, too. They ask very advanced questions at times and if you can't show them that you have high understanding in the subject they will crucify you (or, they will just check out of/ignore your class to a huge degree, and you will be a joke in the school).

Once, I was accidentally assigned to teach Earth Science using an American HS text. ES is literally the easiest science there is. When I opened the book and was trying to figure out how I was going to confidently explain wave action, erosion, the movement of hurricanes, and all this other stuff, I panicked. I was at a total loss. It was only because a science teacher colleague didn't like a class he got, and the school agreed to let us swap, that I was saved. I don't know what I would have done if I had had to teach that course for a year.

The reason that people with online PGCEs and TeachNow certs and so forth can teach science and math with no experience or QTS/license, is exactly what waygo0K said: there's a huge shortage of foreigners willing and able to teach these subjects all over the world. Most people who are good at science and math can easily get jobs paying much more than any teaching job. And, for people who want to teach specifically, the shortages allow them to get good teaching jobs in Western countries, so they don't need to consider working in China or Korea or the Middle East.

The other one like this is economics. The guy teaching econ in my school is basically a moron. But he majored in econ way back in undergrad, more than 20 years ago in his case, and the demand for foreign econ teachers is so high in China that that is enough. They will hire anyone with an econ degree. He's told me himself that he didn't even remember his econ and had to teach it to himself again when he got the job. The guy in my prior school aged out of the Chinese visa system, so he had to quit. But somehow, because he had econ teaching experience, this year he has a new job here. That's the demand in China for that subject.

None of this is going to hold for those of you, like me, who are more inclined to the non-quantatative social sciences and humanities. I don't think I'm going out on a much of a limb saying this is the vast majority of people on this forum.

How is an online PGCE with no QTS or license, and no home country teaching experience, going to work out for you when you aren't applying in a shortage subject?

Online waygo0k

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Re: Online PGCE
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2019, 11:57:02 AM »

Nice one; thanks for the additional info!

What kind of information do you have to provide about your workplace?  What proof did you provide to Beckett to satisfy them?

You're welcome.

There are 2 forms I submitted to Leeds Beckett, the first is a proof of employment form, the second is a school support form (basically signatures from at least 2 teachers stating they will help me with observations and critique of my classes).

Both forms can be downloaded from your application portal.

Online waygo0k

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Re: Online PGCE
« Reply #36 on: March 13, 2019, 12:15:20 PM »
I just have to mention something. If everyone likes this idea so much and wants to do it, great, fine. No skin off my nose. But I think it's interesting that people are avoiding one particular point made by poster waygo0k:
Quote
If youíre planning to teach English, history, geography etc...then a PGCE alone wonít cut it, since most international schools require post QTS experience. The supply of teachers in these areas is far greater than the demand.

If, like me, youíre teaching physics, chemistry, biology, math etc, then a PGCE without QTS would be more favourably looked upon, and the school might be willing to consider pre-PGCE experience too. The better schools would be willing to help you get QTS while working for them. Iíve been offered jobs in China and the Middle East in the past even without a PGCE and QTS.

How many people who are reading this forum are capable of teaching physics, chemistry, biology or math at a high school level?

I mean, seriously. Have people opened up the textbooks and looked at what is required to teach science or math? I've watched my colleagues here at my current school in China teaching physics. I've seen their books and their exams. It's crazy how advanced it is. The kids are often really smart in those subjects, too. They ask very advanced questions at times and if you can't show them that you have high understanding in the subject they will crucify you (or, they will just check out of/ignore your class to a huge degree, and you will be a joke in the school).

Once, I was accidentally assigned to teach Earth Science using an American HS text. ES is literally the easiest science there is. When I opened the book and was trying to figure out how I was going to confidently explain wave action, erosion, the movement of hurricanes, and all this other stuff, I panicked. I was at a total loss. It was only because a science teacher colleague didn't like a class he got, and the school agreed to let us swap, that I was saved. I don't know what I would have done if I had had to teach that course for a year.

The reason that people with online PGCEs and TeachNow certs and so forth can teach science and math with no experience or QTS/license, is exactly what waygo0K said: there's a huge shortage of foreigners willing and able to teach these subjects all over the world. Most people who are good at science and math can easily get jobs paying much more than any teaching job. And, for people who want to teach specifically, the shortages allow them to get good teaching jobs in Western countries, so they don't need to consider working in China or Korea or the Middle East.

The other one like this is economics. The guy teaching econ in my school is basically a moron. But he majored in econ way back in undergrad, more than 20 years ago in his case, and the demand for foreign econ teachers is so high in China that that is enough. They will hire anyone with an econ degree. He's told me himself that he didn't even remember his econ and had to teach it to himself again when he got the job. The guy in my prior school aged out of the Chinese visa system, so he had to quit. But somehow, because he had econ teaching experience, this year he has a new job here. That's the demand in China for that subject.

None of this is going to hold for those of you, like me, who are more inclined to the non-quantatative social sciences and humanities. I don't think I'm going out on a much of a limb saying this is the vast majority of people on this forum.

How is an online PGCE with no QTS or license, and no home country teaching experience, going to work out for you when you aren't applying in a shortage subject?

Very valid points Observer.

However, it's not so much that math and science teachers are raking it in back home. Most fully qualified teachers in the west aren't earning anything close to what they'd be earning in China or the Middle East (which is on average double their salary with virtually no expenses)...even for those teaching STEM subjects.

The problem is there are very few STEM teachers back home in the UK (at least). People just aren't studying these subjects beyond GCSE level and haven't been doing so for a long time. So much so that new science teachers in the UK typically earn £5-10k more than their newbie counterparts in other subjects...and even then it only barely scratches the low end of what they'd expect to earn in the aforementioned countries.

Since there is a severe under-supply of STEM teachers in western countries, it only means their proportion in the group that are adventurous enough to work abroad would be low.

The other big factor is many of these teachers leave home, but fail to adapt to the new countries and education systems they find themselves in...often for good reason too. Apart from common things like culture shock and homesickness...Expectations, practices and standards are more often than not different from back home, and in many cases are outright questionable (they do work in big money schools where results matter more than anything else after all). So, many teachers simply quit or don't renew because the whole experience doesn't fit mentally with them. QTS prepares you for a classroom in the west, not the whole experience of living and teaching abroad.

So all in all, an online PGCE without QTS won't get you very far in the social sciences, but it's still better than no PGCE and no QTS. The former would get you a few interviews at the very least.