March 25, 2019, 07:36:51 PM


Author Topic: Do you guys feel like we have job security here in Korea? (EPIK, Hakwon, etc)  (Read 3362 times)

Offline SanderB

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I've never had the impression hakwons treated me badly.
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Online leaponover

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Teacher's rarely have any idea of what mom's are saying about them and whether they are complaining,

Isn't it a good idea to let them know? I mean, if it's something important, obviously.

Boss:  "Teacher"
Teacher:  "Yes?"

Boss:  "Minsu's mom called...she angry at you. She complain".

Teacher:  "Really?  Why is that?".

Boss:  "You made Minsu do her homework.  You no give Minsu a pencil.  You make students speak.  Students scared to speak Engish because you make them practice.  You no give Minsu a cookie from your own lunch.  Minsu only get 90% on test..Jiyung get 100%.   Minsu mom think you are bad teacher because you no love Minsu". 

Teacher:  "Chow?".



 

I think leaponover would be a bit more articulate than that.  :wink:

Maybe only a tiny bit, haha.  Anyway this is an obvious example of what Western teachers think mom's complain about and not what actually happens.  Probably the teacher gave a worksheet made by Domingo in El Salvador because he didn't feel like making his own and Minsu didn't understand it because it was riddled with errors and mixed with things Minsu hadn't learned yet.

Anyway, I'm not going to go back and forth with it.  There isn't one blanket statement to describe every teacher and every hagwon in Korea.  I just know from a time and money standpoint that hagwons would love to hang on to those hardworking and talented teachers rather than lose them to someone they have to train and start from scratch with.  Is that statement really that hard to believe?  Having a Western teacher that Moms trust is like gold in this industry.



Oh...hagwons that know what they are doing, in regards to TEACHING and TRAINING?

WOW..

Training happens at every job.  Stop being thick.  Have to teach people how to use the copy machine, fill them in on the parts that are specific to the hagwon functioning.  Happens in every job, I wasn't necessarily referring to actual education training as I can't speak for all hagwons, but there is a certain amount of time invested in getting the teacher up to speed on daily operations just like any job.

Online zola

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Quote
Teacher's rarely have any idea of what mom's are saying about them and whether they are complaining,

Isn't it a good idea to let them know? I mean, if it's something important, obviously.

Boss:  "Teacher"
Teacher:  "Yes?"

Boss:  "Minsu's mom called...she angry at you. She complain".

Teacher:  "Really?  Why is that?".

Boss:  "You made Minsu do her homework.  You no give Minsu a pencil.  You make students speak.  Students scared to speak Engish because you make them practice.  You no give Minsu a cookie from your own lunch.  Minsu only get 90% on test..Jiyung get 100%.   Minsu mom think you are bad teacher because you no love Minsu". 

Teacher:  "Chow?".



 

I think leaponover would be a bit more articulate than that.  :wink:

Maybe only a tiny bit, haha.  Anyway this is an obvious example of what Western teachers think mom's complain about and not what actually happens.  Probably the teacher gave a worksheet made by Domingo in El Salvador because he didn't feel like making his own and Minsu didn't understand it because it was riddled with errors and mixed with things Minsu hadn't learned yet.

Anyway, I'm not going to go back and forth with it.  There isn't one blanket statement to describe every teacher and every hagwon in Korea.  I just know from a time and money standpoint that hagwons would love to hang on to those hardworking and talented teachers rather than lose them to someone they have to train and start from scratch with.  Is that statement really that hard to believe?  Having a Western teacher that Moms trust is like gold in this industry.



Oh...hagwons that know what they are doing, in regards to TEACHING and TRAINING?

WOW..

Training happens at every job.  Stop being thick.  Have to teach people how to use the copy machine, fill them in on the parts that are specific to the hagwon functioning.  Happens in every job, I wasn't necessarily referring to actual education training as I can't speak for all hagwons, but there is a certain amount of time invested in getting the teacher up to speed on daily operations just like any job.
I think you have no idea what goes on at a lot of other hogwons.
Kpip! - Martin 2018

Online NorthStar

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Quote
Teacher's rarely have any idea of what mom's are saying about them and whether they are complaining,

Isn't it a good idea to let them know? I mean, if it's something important, obviously.

Boss:  "Teacher"
Teacher:  "Yes?"

Boss:  "Minsu's mom called...she angry at you. She complain".

Teacher:  "Really?  Why is that?".

Boss:  "You made Minsu do her homework.  You no give Minsu a pencil.  You make students speak.  Students scared to speak Engish because you make them practice.  You no give Minsu a cookie from your own lunch.  Minsu only get 90% on test..Jiyung get 100%.   Minsu mom think you are bad teacher because you no love Minsu". 

Teacher:  "Chow?".



 

I think leaponover would be a bit more articulate than that.  :wink:

Maybe only a tiny bit, haha.  Anyway this is an obvious example of what Western teachers think mom's complain about and not what actually happens.  Probably the teacher gave a worksheet made by Domingo in El Salvador because he didn't feel like making his own and Minsu didn't understand it because it was riddled with errors and mixed with things Minsu hadn't learned yet.

Anyway, I'm not going to go back and forth with it.  There isn't one blanket statement to describe every teacher and every hagwon in Korea.  I just know from a time and money standpoint that hagwons would love to hang on to those hardworking and talented teachers rather than lose them to someone they have to train and start from scratch with.  Is that statement really that hard to believe?  Having a Western teacher that Moms trust is like gold in this industry.



Oh...hagwons that know what they are doing, in regards to TEACHING and TRAINING?

WOW..

Training happens at every job.  Stop being thick.  Have to teach people how to use the copy machine, fill them in on the parts that are specific to the hagwon functioning.  Happens in every job, I wasn't necessarily referring to actual education training as I can't speak for all hagwons, but there is a certain amount of time invested in getting the teacher up to speed on daily operations just like any job.

OK, OK...the copy machine ( a bane in anyone's existence).  You earned that point.

Offline hangook77

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Being in demand is a form of job security. I think if you're teaching English in Korea, you can be pretty sure that you could still teach English in Korea 10 years from now. Beyond that, however, there's not much security. There's no guarantee that you'll have a job a year from now as positions generally go from contract to contract. The pay is stagnant and often includes or is tied to housing, which means that changing your job means you have to move with no idea of where you'll be living, or potentially negotiate with your employer to take over a housing contract tied to your previous employer.

I think teaching is a great job and I know many great teachers here, even people without formal qualifications related to education. I just don't think it's a great bet in Korea, anymore. If you're in your early 20s or just here for a couple of years at any age, disregard this. If you like teaching and enjoy the flexibility it offers (flexibility is different from security), by all means continue. If you're trying to save money or possibly start a family, I don't think a typical teacher's salary on an E2 is a great option.

Working full-time at the minimum wage now yields a monthly salary of 1.7 million KRW. Many places can beat this, like working full-time at a Nike store, which pays about 2.1 million a month plus benefits like money for gym memberships, holiday and performance bonuses, as well as paying your share of your pension payments.

That doesn't mean anyone working for 2.1 or 2.2 is a failure or a loser, but like many other industries back home, ELT in Korea just isn't paying that well despite requiring a university degree, additional certifications and reams of paperwork. When you consider the likelihood of a position to get cut or eliminated, or just to be not that good in the first place, I think it's certainly worth considering other options in Korea or overseas.

That's the problem right there.  Ten years ago, minimum wage here was 880,000 a month or so 10 years ago, when many hakwans were paying 2.1 to 2.3 with return flight.  It's why you want to punch some of these idiot newbies in the face for accepting still low offers and keeping the wages low for everyone.  Though I think there is plenty of low wage work here.  The Great Recession had disastrous effects on Korea's ESL industry.  It killed the golden era.  If you came here 10 to 20 years ago, you could roll in the money.  I heard about Korea by word of mouth.  Folks came back to the Maritimes (cause it's the poorest part of North America) and said, go to Korea - you can make a lot of money.  It sure isn't that way anymore.  But it's the fault of foreigners for caving in 2019 for the lowball offers. 

Korea is only now recovering from the disaster the last recession had.  Some wages are slowly increasing if you search a lot of Facebook ads.  If everyone would stand firm and refuse to collectively take jobs below a certain wage, it would go up.  It is starting to now as the US economy is finally doing well in some places and folks realize it is worth more there than here now.  Also, many senior teachers have been exiting to China and other places more recently.  It is still good for me.  But it won't be for much longer.  The sharp spike in the minimum wage is fueling a lot of inflation.

Eh, as a hagwon owner I can say most successful, teaching driven hagwons are prepared to pay for someone with advanced experience in teaching.  Our hagwon certainly does.  But to think that wages will just go up based on cost of living to hire the next child that just graduated university and wants to "figure their life out" by teaching in Korea....nah, they aren't going to get any more money. 

My attitude has always been, this is an EFL teaching job and we need teachers who are able to do that.  We are willing to pay for those who actually have training or experience to teach, but those candidates aren't usually that easy to find because A) you have to wade through all the "poli sci I want to teach English now" candidates and B) they are already being taken care of by their current hagwon because they recognize their contribution and reward them as such.

That's my two cents anyway.


So you charge the same as the what the average hakwon is charging 10 years ago and are paying the same wages then too. 

Online Kayos

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I was in Japan 12 years ago when NOVA collapsed. Middle management was full of guys 40-50 years old, spent a decade or 2 in Japan. NOVA was the apotheosis of groundhogs day. Cushy and undemanding (also brain deadingly boring). All these guys were content to ride it out till retirement. Then it just vanished overnight and they were thrown into the churning seas, scrambling for the lifeboats of other jobs, competing with all the rest of us. Some of the saddest shit I ever did see. It haunts me. Those middle aged, dead eyed guys, who never thought they'd ever have to interview for a job again.

NOVA is who I worked for 3 - 4 years ago, before coming to Korea.
Some of the workers, and staff were great, the highest or 2nd highest person, and the guy training us, was really horrible. And they tried to bait and switch contracts.

To stay on topic, for public school, I think we have great job security during the duration of our contracts. Renewals not so much.
For hagwons, not too much security there.

Online leaponover

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Quote
Teacher's rarely have any idea of what mom's are saying about them and whether they are complaining,

Isn't it a good idea to let them know? I mean, if it's something important, obviously.

Boss:  "Teacher"
Teacher:  "Yes?"

Boss:  "Minsu's mom called...she angry at you. She complain".

Teacher:  "Really?  Why is that?".

Boss:  "You made Minsu do her homework.  You no give Minsu a pencil.  You make students speak.  Students scared to speak Engish because you make them practice.  You no give Minsu a cookie from your own lunch.  Minsu only get 90% on test..Jiyung get 100%.   Minsu mom think you are bad teacher because you no love Minsu". 

Teacher:  "Chow?".



 

I think leaponover would be a bit more articulate than that.  :wink:

Maybe only a tiny bit, haha.  Anyway this is an obvious example of what Western teachers think mom's complain about and not what actually happens.  Probably the teacher gave a worksheet made by Domingo in El Salvador because he didn't feel like making his own and Minsu didn't understand it because it was riddled with errors and mixed with things Minsu hadn't learned yet.

Anyway, I'm not going to go back and forth with it.  There isn't one blanket statement to describe every teacher and every hagwon in Korea.  I just know from a time and money standpoint that hagwons would love to hang on to those hardworking and talented teachers rather than lose them to someone they have to train and start from scratch with.  Is that statement really that hard to believe?  Having a Western teacher that Moms trust is like gold in this industry.



Oh...hagwons that know what they are doing, in regards to TEACHING and TRAINING?

WOW..

Training happens at every job.  Stop being thick.  Have to teach people how to use the copy machine, fill them in on the parts that are specific to the hagwon functioning.  Happens in every job, I wasn't necessarily referring to actual education training as I can't speak for all hagwons, but there is a certain amount of time invested in getting the teacher up to speed on daily operations just like any job.
I think you have no idea what goes on at a lot of other hogwons.

Considering my entire circle of friends are hagwon owners and workers...perhaps you should look in the mirror.  Many recruiters have a mandatory orientation period written into the contract with the hagwon.  Keep thinking you know more than me though....

Online leaponover

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Being in demand is a form of job security. I think if you're teaching English in Korea, you can be pretty sure that you could still teach English in Korea 10 years from now. Beyond that, however, there's not much security. There's no guarantee that you'll have a job a year from now as positions generally go from contract to contract. The pay is stagnant and often includes or is tied to housing, which means that changing your job means you have to move with no idea of where you'll be living, or potentially negotiate with your employer to take over a housing contract tied to your previous employer.

I think teaching is a great job and I know many great teachers here, even people without formal qualifications related to education. I just don't think it's a great bet in Korea, anymore. If you're in your early 20s or just here for a couple of years at any age, disregard this. If you like teaching and enjoy the flexibility it offers (flexibility is different from security), by all means continue. If you're trying to save money or possibly start a family, I don't think a typical teacher's salary on an E2 is a great option.

Working full-time at the minimum wage now yields a monthly salary of 1.7 million KRW. Many places can beat this, like working full-time at a Nike store, which pays about 2.1 million a month plus benefits like money for gym memberships, holiday and performance bonuses, as well as paying your share of your pension payments.

That doesn't mean anyone working for 2.1 or 2.2 is a failure or a loser, but like many other industries back home, ELT in Korea just isn't paying that well despite requiring a university degree, additional certifications and reams of paperwork. When you consider the likelihood of a position to get cut or eliminated, or just to be not that good in the first place, I think it's certainly worth considering other options in Korea or overseas.

That's the problem right there.  Ten years ago, minimum wage here was 880,000 a month or so 10 years ago, when many hakwans were paying 2.1 to 2.3 with return flight.  It's why you want to punch some of these idiot newbies in the face for accepting still low offers and keeping the wages low for everyone.  Though I think there is plenty of low wage work here.  The Great Recession had disastrous effects on Korea's ESL industry.  It killed the golden era.  If you came here 10 to 20 years ago, you could roll in the money.  I heard about Korea by word of mouth.  Folks came back to the Maritimes (cause it's the poorest part of North America) and said, go to Korea - you can make a lot of money.  It sure isn't that way anymore.  But it's the fault of foreigners for caving in 2019 for the lowball offers. 

Korea is only now recovering from the disaster the last recession had.  Some wages are slowly increasing if you search a lot of Facebook ads.  If everyone would stand firm and refuse to collectively take jobs below a certain wage, it would go up.  It is starting to now as the US economy is finally doing well in some places and folks realize it is worth more there than here now.  Also, many senior teachers have been exiting to China and other places more recently.  It is still good for me.  But it won't be for much longer.  The sharp spike in the minimum wage is fueling a lot of inflation.

Eh, as a hagwon owner I can say most successful, teaching driven hagwons are prepared to pay for someone with advanced experience in teaching.  Our hagwon certainly does.  But to think that wages will just go up based on cost of living to hire the next child that just graduated university and wants to "figure their life out" by teaching in Korea....nah, they aren't going to get any more money. 

My attitude has always been, this is an EFL teaching job and we need teachers who are able to do that.  We are willing to pay for those who actually have training or experience to teach, but those candidates aren't usually that easy to find because A) you have to wade through all the "poli sci I want to teach English now" candidates and B) they are already being taken care of by their current hagwon because they recognize their contribution and reward them as such.

That's my two cents anyway.


So you charge the same as the what the average hakwon is charging 10 years ago and are paying the same wages then too.

I wasn't a hagwon owner ten years ago, so I have no idea about that, nor can I be accused of doing that since I wasn't charging anyone ten years ago.  I'm rereading and rereading to see what they even has to do with what I posted.  Please elaborate.

Online leaponover

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Teacher's rarely have any idea of what mom's are saying about them and whether they are complaining,

Isn't it a good idea to let them know? I mean, if it's something important, obviously.

Boss:  "Teacher"
Teacher:  "Yes?"

Boss:  "Minsu's mom called...she angry at you. She complain".

Teacher:  "Really?  Why is that?".

Boss:  "You made Minsu do her homework.  You no give Minsu a pencil.  You make students speak.  Students scared to speak Engish because you make them practice.  You no give Minsu a cookie from your own lunch.  Minsu only get 90% on test..Jiyung get 100%.   Minsu mom think you are bad teacher because you no love Minsu". 

Teacher:  "Chow?".



 

I think leaponover would be a bit more articulate than that.  :wink:

Maybe only a tiny bit, haha.  Anyway this is an obvious example of what Western teachers think mom's complain about and not what actually happens.  Probably the teacher gave a worksheet made by Domingo in El Salvador because he didn't feel like making his own and Minsu didn't understand it because it was riddled with errors and mixed with things Minsu hadn't learned yet.

Anyway, I'm not going to go back and forth with it.  There isn't one blanket statement to describe every teacher and every hagwon in Korea.  I just know from a time and money standpoint that hagwons would love to hang on to those hardworking and talented teachers rather than lose them to someone they have to train and start from scratch with.  Is that statement really that hard to believe?  Having a Western teacher that Moms trust is like gold in this industry.



Oh...hagwons that know what they are doing, in regards to TEACHING and TRAINING?

WOW..

Training happens at every job.  Stop being thick.  Have to teach people how to use the copy machine, fill them in on the parts that are specific to the hagwon functioning.  Happens in every job, I wasn't necessarily referring to actual education training as I can't speak for all hagwons, but there is a certain amount of time invested in getting the teacher up to speed on daily operations just like any job.

OK, OK...the copy machine ( a bane in anyone's existence).  You earned that point.

Well one isn't zero!  Yay for me, haha!  Have to admit, the copy/printer is a big part of the job!

Online zola

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Considering my entire circle of friends are hagwon owners and workers...perhaps you should look in the mirror.  Many recruiters have a mandatory orientation period written into the contract with the hagwon.  Keep thinking you know more than me though....

What can I say? It's true, you know nothing. Not only do i think i know more than you. I know i know more than you. And you know that too, don't you? You know that i know more than you. Even after all of these years of toiling away in your hogwon, your knowledge is still inferior to mine; a simple non-owner. Does that hurt you? Yes it does. But will i keep saying it? Yes. And should you be quiet and show some respect? Yes.

Now, run along. I expect you have some training to be dishing out about now. Get to it.
Kpip! - Martin 2018