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Author Topic: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?  (Read 3764 times)

Online eggieguffer

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Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2019, 01:50:29 PM »
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If you're cool with someone coming on here to advertise the work of an avowed anti-Semite and frequent speaker at neo-Nazi events, fine,

Absolutely cool.

I haven't noticed you warning people not to talk to foreverparadise when he quotes people like Malcolm X, by the way. 
« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 03:21:14 PM by eggieguffer »

Offline MayorHaggar

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Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2019, 05:19:21 PM »
Well I think we have a pretty exhaustive list of which Waygook users wouldn't be able to get a date to save their life.



I don't see why white people shouldn't be proud of their heritage/race if they want to be.

There's a difference between appreciating the invention of let's say the telephone and being a belligerent white supremacist bellend.
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Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on Yesterday at 01:40:32 PM

    Trump is a liar and a con man.

Online Andyman

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Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2019, 07:17:05 AM »
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If you're cool with someone coming on here to advertise the work of an avowed anti-Semite and frequent speaker at neo-Nazi events, fine,

Absolutely cool.

I haven't noticed you warning people not to talk to foreverparadise when he quotes people like Malcolm X, by the way.

I haven't noticed you doing that, either. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever finished reading a single post by foreverinparadise. Anything I've started has been about Thailand, involving some weird and lengthy backstory of which I have no knowledge, or misbehaving kids on a Native American reservation. That said, if I spotted him promoting a three-volume set of race hate literature about nefarious Jews, and publicly pointed it out, would you still mock me for it?


Online eggieguffer

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Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2019, 07:34:29 AM »
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If you're cool with someone coming on here to advertise the work of an avowed anti-Semite and frequent speaker at neo-Nazi events, fine,

Absolutely cool.

I haven't noticed you warning people not to talk to foreverparadise when he quotes people like Malcolm X, by the way.

I haven't noticed you doing that, either. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever finished reading a single post by foreverinparadise. Anything I've started has been about Thailand, involving some weird and lengthy backstory of which I have no knowledge, or misbehaving kids on a Native American reservation. That said, if I spotted him promoting a three-volume set of race hate literature about nefarious Jews, and publicly pointed it out, would you still mock me for it?

I have pointed out to Foreverparadise that Malcolm X had some dodgy views and as far as I'm concerned you're welcome to point that out about Kevin MacDonald. What I'm suspicious of is warning people not to engage in dialogue with this poster and talking about hate speech, as this sparks of shutting down freedom of speech and the kind of rhetoric bandied about by universities banning people from campuses. I don't know anything about Kevin MacDonald and there was nothing in the quote that could be described as incendiary or racist, so why should I not engage with this person just on your say so? People have accused Jeremy Corbyn of being anti-semitic and Jordan Peterson of promulgating hate speech in the past, so this kind of rhetoric doesn't have much of an impact these days. 

Online eggieguffer

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Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2019, 07:50:16 AM »
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Quote
I don't see why white people shouldn't be proud of their heritage/race if they want to be.

There's a difference between appreciating the invention of let's say the telephone and being a belligerent white supremacist bellend.

Yup. Like there's a difference between whites who are proud of albert einstein and the ****** honkyswho go around championing hitler or the grand wizards of everyone's favorite ghost themed slumber party.
[/quote]

So do you think that saying something like this  'I'm proud of famous white inventors like Albert Einstein and Alexander Graham Bell because they were great white men and I'm white too', would go down well in polite company? 

Online Andyman

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Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #45 on: January 11, 2019, 07:53:35 AM »
I never said that you absolutely shouldn't engage with them. I think it's helpful to acknowledge that he's pushing anti-Jewish literature written by a leading light of white supremacist extremist groups. This isn't some kind of ambiguous, "Well, anything can be considered hate speech these days... I heard they arrested a man in Grimsby for naming his dog Blackie!" kind of scenario. The whole point is to cut through that ambiguity and call out real extremism where it unquestionably exists. Jordan Peterson himself never tires of claiming that the non-extremist right has drawn a line in the sand on racial discrimination and hate - if you engage in this stuff, you're not welcome to the conversation. Pushing a notorious anti-Semitic text beloved of neo-Nazis crosses that line, as far as I'm concerned. Just keeping my room clean.

Online eggieguffer

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Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #46 on: January 11, 2019, 07:59:20 AM »
I never said that you absolutely shouldn't engage with them. I think it's helpful to acknowledge that he's pushing anti-Jewish literature written by a leading light of white supremacist extremist groups. This isn't some kind of ambiguous, "Well, anything can be considered hate speech these days... I heard they arrested a man in Grimsby for naming his dog Blackie!" kind of scenario. The whole point is to cut through that ambiguity and call out real extremism where it unquestionably exists. Jordan Peterson himself never tires of claiming that the non-extremist right has drawn a line in the sand on racial discrimination and hate - if you engage in this stuff, you're not welcome to the conversation. Pushing a notorious anti-Semitic text beloved of neo-Nazis crosses that line, as far as I'm concerned. Just keeping my room clean.

Fine, so instead of saying 'I wouldn't talk to him, he's a racist, or words to that effect, how about saying 'the author that guy's promoting said this.....', which I think is anti-semitic, what do you think?'

Offline tylerthegloob

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Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #47 on: January 11, 2019, 08:03:38 AM »
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I don't see why white people shouldn't be proud of their heritage/race if they want to be.

There's a difference between appreciating the invention of let's say the telephone and being a belligerent white supremacist bellend.

Yup. Like there's a difference between whites who are proud of albert einstein and the ****** honkyswho go around championing hitler or the grand wizards of everyone's favorite ghost themed slumber party.

So do you think that saying something like this  'I'm proud of famous white inventors like Albert Einstein and Alexander Graham Bell because they were great white men and I'm white too', would go down well in polite company?

Depending on who you are and your relationship with those people, sure. I would be comfortable saying that in front of my mixed-race group of friends. They know me and what I'm about.

Among strangers, it might come off as weird. White power, historically, has been a very dangerous concept (there are many examples of people killing in the name of white supremacy). The concept of black power, and, more specifically, black empowerment (coming from a place of historical oppression), has not been as problematic.

The context really matters when you're navigating racial and social situations. In my opinion, this is one thing many white people fail to understand. The context or relationship dynamics play a big role in whether or not a racial joke will hit or miss (as an example). There's tons of shit I would joke about with my black friends that I would never say to a black stranger. I understand this and I don't see a problem with it. And it goes both ways.

Online eggieguffer

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Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #48 on: January 11, 2019, 08:14:09 AM »
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Depending on who you are and your relationship with those people, sure. I would be comfortable saying that in front of my mixed-race group of friends. They know me and what I'm about.

Really? I call BS. I think you'd be crazy to say something seriously in public with 'white' and proud' in the same sentence today. Not that I care as I think the whole pride thing is ridiculous. Anyway, what do you think the reaction would be if a famous white celebrity said this in public?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 08:33:19 AM by eggieguffer »

Online Andyman

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Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #49 on: January 11, 2019, 08:23:43 AM »
I never said that you absolutely shouldn't engage with them. I think it's helpful to acknowledge that he's pushing anti-Jewish literature written by a leading light of white supremacist extremist groups. This isn't some kind of ambiguous, "Well, anything can be considered hate speech these days... I heard they arrested a man in Grimsby for naming his dog Blackie!" kind of scenario. The whole point is to cut through that ambiguity and call out real extremism where it unquestionably exists. Jordan Peterson himself never tires of claiming that the non-extremist right has drawn a line in the sand on racial discrimination and hate - if you engage in this stuff, you're not welcome to the conversation. Pushing a notorious anti-Semitic text beloved of neo-Nazis crosses that line, as far as I'm concerned. Just keeping my room clean.

Fine, so instead of saying 'I wouldn't talk to him, he's a racist, or words to that effect, how about saying 'the author that guy's promoting said this.....', which I think is anti-semitic, what do you think?'

For clarity, this is what I said:

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The Culture of Critique is an unambiguously anti-Semitic series of books, written by someone who is a director of the unambiguously white nationalist American Freedom Party and the editor of an unambiguously white nationalist newsletter.

If you want to discuss the demographics and political composition of foreigners in Korea with someone pushing neo-Nazi literature on Waygook, that's your choice, but know what you're getting into.

It's not a subjective question about anti-Semitism. The guy speaks at Holocaust denial conferences and pals around with actual NeoNazis. He is a key figure in a political party that hosts an opinion piece on its website called Jews and Their Effect on American-Russian Relations. An excerpt:

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Jewish-owned media gave huge publicity to the pogroms in Russia. The riots in Russia were not due to the Jews being of a different religion. If the Jews had just wanted to keep their religion in Russia, there would have been no problem. It was the predatory economic practices of the Jews which created the hostility towards the Jews in the Russian Empire. Many Jews were usurers and they were also the middlemen who bought the produce of the peasant farmers, in essence forming a cartel. So, the Jews could exploit the peasants both with loans and influence what prices the farmers could get for their produce. Also, Jews were very active in the liquor sales and owned most of the brothels. The pogroms were set off by Jewish behavior like all the other problems which the Jews have gotten themselves into throughout history.

I'm sorry, but muddying the waters with "Well, the left is so censorious these days" just doesn't work in this case. The guy was promoting a serious anti-Semite and white nationalist. I was letting everyone know.

Online eggieguffer

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Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #50 on: January 11, 2019, 08:32:01 AM »
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I'm sorry, but muddying the waters with "Well, the left is so censorious these days" just doesn't work in this case

Not muddying the waters at all. You do agree that there isn't a dog called Blackie on one side of the line then a huge empty space till you get to people like this MacDonald guy?  Now you've quoted the guy, he does sound like an anti Semite, thanks for letting us know. 

Online Andyman

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Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #51 on: January 11, 2019, 08:34:13 AM »
Sure, I agree with that, which is why I was trying be very clear about where McDonald sits on that spectrum.

Offline tylerthegloob

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Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #52 on: January 11, 2019, 08:57:16 AM »
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Depending on who you are and your relationship with those people, sure. I would be comfortable saying that in front of my mixed-race group of friends. They know me and what I'm about.

Really? I call BS. I think you'd be crazy to say something seriously in public with 'white' and proud' in the same sentence today. Not that I care as I think the whole pride thing is ridiculous. Anyway, what do you think the reaction would be if a famous white celebrity said this in public?

I wouldn't say it in public, nor did I suggest that I would. I said I would say it among friends. If by "in public" you mean "in a public place, with friends", then sure, I would. Why not?

If we're talking about "in public" in the same way that a celebrity would publicly say something, it's a different story. I (or your favorite celebrity) wouldn't have a relationship with most of the audience when speaking publicly. This changes the context. Considering the history of white pride movements going wrong, it's pretty easy to see why saying such a thing in public (to strangers) is a bad idea.

Personally, I'm also against "the whole pride thing" but it doesn't bother me if other people want to be proud of their heritage.

Online Andyman

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Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #53 on: January 11, 2019, 09:07:28 AM »
Also, as a matter of convention and habit as much as anything else, I think white people have traditionally looked toward nation, region, community or, in the case of non-Europeans, the countries of their family's European origins as sources of their pride. Nobody considers a house of full of Irish paraphernalia to be racist, or an annual Polish parade in Chicago. This largely applies to non-white people, too, but the ethnic pride movements with which we're most familiar tend to be associated with minority populations in white-majority countries, so the context is specific to those situations.

Online Andyman

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Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #54 on: January 11, 2019, 09:10:15 AM »
Like, lots of people with Scottish ancestry might express pride in sharing origins with Alexander Graham Bell, and nobody cares. Expressing that pride as a matter of whiteness has, for fairly obvious historical reasons, more eyebrow-raising connotations.

Online waygo0k

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Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #55 on: January 11, 2019, 09:36:28 AM »
You’re talking to a brick wall here.

The fact that he has a problem with some of what Malcom X said, and totally ignores what brought about a Malcom X in the first place, while totally disregarding the things Malcom X said later towards the end of his life...means this is a fruitless conversation.

Try all you want, he’s already made his mind up about ‘leftist SJWs’.

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #56 on: January 11, 2019, 09:39:11 AM »
Also, as a matter of convention and habit as much as anything else, I think white people have traditionally looked toward nation, region, community or, in the case of non-Europeans, the countries of their family's European origins as sources of their pride. Nobody considers a house of full of Irish paraphernalia to be racist, or an annual Polish parade in Chicago. This largely applies to non-white people, too, but the ethnic pride movements with which we're most familiar tend to be associated with minority populations in white-majority countries, so the context is specific to those situations.
Don't worry. I'm sure the left will be on that real soon. Probably coming up this St. Patrick's Day. Some journalist will tweet out how St. Patrick's Day is racist and white supremacist or something or that it ignores the many black, gay, and Hindu contributions to Irish history.

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #57 on: January 11, 2019, 09:43:38 AM »
People have accused Jeremy Corbyn of being anti-semitic and Jordan Peterson of promulgating hate speech in the past, so this kind of rhetoric doesn't have much of an impact these days.
This. You see these accusations tossed out so much, both right and left, that I never take them at face value.

NEVER EVER EVER blindly accept a media claim that someone is "Racist" or "Anti-Semitic" or "Homophobic" until you really look into what they said, the full quote with context, and their body of work. Somehow I don't think Corbyn is keen on starting up Auschwitz or that Kevin Hart is down with gays being beaten and killed or that Jordan Peterson is keen on promoting white supremacy.

Depending on who you are and your relationship with those people, sure. I would be comfortable saying that in front of my mixed-race group of friends. They know me and what I'm about.

Among strangers, it might come off as weird. White power, historically, has been a very dangerous concept (there are many examples of people killing in the name of white supremacy). The concept of black power, and, more specifically, black empowerment (coming from a place of historical oppression), has not been as problematic.

Given the age of most of my friends. If you said "White Power", 99.9% of them would assume you're referencing Chappelle Show and Clayton Bigsby. It would probably take a good 15-20 White Powers (between which would be "Dude, shut up, you're ruining the sketch") before it would click "Wait, are you really saying 'White Power'???"

I mean we're the age where everyone (of all races) is getting stoned and watching American History X, sees whatshisface signing "The White Man Marches On" and the reaction is to burst out laughing and start signing it too just because it's in that South Park-Chappelle Show vibe (unintentionally).

It seems our parents generation and this young generation are the ones that really freak out about that stuff. Our generation was the chill one- everyone just getting stoned and drunk together, playing Goldeneye, watching WWE and Adult Swim, playing cards, fixing cars, clubbing (cuz we all listened to the same music, unlike nowadays or before), going bowling, and the big thing was could you take a joke and laugh and whatnot.   
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 09:52:40 AM by Mr.DeMartino »

Online eggieguffer

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Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #58 on: January 11, 2019, 09:51:08 AM »
Also, as a matter of convention and habit as much as anything else, I think white people have traditionally looked toward nation, region, community or, in the case of non-Europeans, the countries of their family's European origins as sources of their pride. Nobody considers a house of full of Irish paraphernalia to be racist, or an annual Polish parade in Chicago. This largely applies to non-white people, too, but the ethnic pride movements with which we're most familiar tend to be associated with minority populations in white-majority countries, so the context is specific to those situations.

This is true, but due to certain leftists trying to make whiteness and maleness some kind of negative characteristic, there's bound to be a opposing reaction and a strengthening of white bonds.   

Online eggieguffer

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Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #59 on: January 11, 2019, 09:56:45 AM »
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Depending on who you are and your relationship with those people, sure. I would be comfortable saying that in front of my mixed-race group of friends. They know me and what I'm about.

Really? I call BS. I think you'd be crazy to say something seriously in public with 'white' and proud' in the same sentence today. Not that I care as I think the whole pride thing is ridiculous. Anyway, what do you think the reaction would be if a famous white celebrity said this in public?

I wouldn't say it in public, nor did I suggest that I would. I said I would say it among friends. If by "in public" you mean "in a public place, with friends", then sure, I would. Why not?

If we're talking about "in public" in the same way that a celebrity would publicly say something, it's a different story. I (or your favorite celebrity) wouldn't have a relationship with most of the audience when speaking publicly. This changes the context. Considering the history of white pride movements going wrong, it's pretty easy to see why saying such a thing in public (to strangers) is a bad idea.

Personally, I'm also against "the whole pride thing" but it doesn't bother me if other people want to be proud of their heritage.

Yeah, OK my original question was would you say that 'in polite company' which is an expression meaning:

Polite company refers to a group of people who are respectable, who conform to norms of behavior and language that are inoffensive to others in society. E.g. the vicar's tea party.