Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?

[Mr.DeMartino]

[eggieguffer]

Maybe they don't recognise Clayton Bigsby.

Ahhh....you spoiled it.

That was kind of the point. People were talking about comedy so I decided to see how they'd react. If they didn't know who it was and simply took "Guy in KKK garb said these things" at face value, they'd go for it being banned (or in eggie's case, to see how far he'd support free speech).

If "Gas the Jews" warrants a banning when done as comedy, surely Dave Chappelle, whose Clayton Bigsby sketch is considered an all-time classic and whose show is legendary, deserves to be declared a hate monger. The man literally said "Kill that n----" "Go back to your country" "White Power" and "Send Condelezza Rice to Mexico so the Mexicans will eat her". If some pug throwing up a salute to "Gas the Jews" is hate speech, than this has to be as well.

Count Dankula wasn't on the level of Chappelle, but we can't have different standards of free speech for comedians based on how successful they are. And it's not like Count Dankula was a total nobody. He did have a minor following.

Also, for anyone to talk about comedy, and not instantly recognize those quotes, sorta disqualifies them from a discussion on comedy.

Does Count Dankula run a comedy/satire youtube page?

That's what he claimed at the trial

[tylerthegloob]

No. I don't think talking about gassing people is a basic human right.

Be careful how you express the idea of freedom of speech. As you say,  it's not a black and white issue so it's not enough just to say 'talking about gassing people shouldn't be a human right'. Make it clear you are also saying 'making jokes about gassing people shouldn't be a human right.' That seems to be what you think, yes? I mentioned the Ricky Gervais example which you didn't respond to. He also said 'making jokes about a bad thing is not the same as the bad thing. Are you of the opinion that there are some topics you should never joke about? Like the Holocaust or Rape?

I'm not saying making jokes about it shouldn't be protected. Can you truly not see the contextual difference between a comedy set or a comedian saying something and some random on youtube posting a video (specifically, a video that proudly portrays Nazi Germany in other aspects)?

Of course I can see the difference. One is in poorer taste than the other, but they're both jokes. Count  Dankula's  comedy medium is YouTube, Gervais' is TV.

Is Count Dankula a comedian? Does he mostly post funny videos/satire? (Neither of these things were clear to me from the article you shared.)

If the answers are yes, then sure, he should be protected, too.

edit:

That's what he claimed at the trial

Well I guess he lost for some reason? Perhaps this was his only "funny" video?

[Mr.DeMartino]

I may be going out on a limb here, but I think someone called Count Dankula, is probably not a Nazi sympathizer and spreader of hate propaganda and their youtube channel is probably centered around things other than the glory of the Aryan race.

Probably the closest thing to "Aryan" someone with that name is concerned about is the Hindu Kush region.

[Mr.DeMartino]

More on point from Jonathan Pie



"The PROSECUTION said that context and intent are irrelevant. And the judge agreed."

facepalm.

[tylerthegloob]

I may be going out on a limb here, but I think someone called Count Dankula, is probably not a Nazi sympathizer and spreader of hate propaganda and their youtube channel is probably centered around things other than the glory of the Aryan race.

Probably the closest thing to "Aryan" someone with that name is concerned about is the Hindu Kush region.

Fair. His name wasn't in the article eggie posted though. Not like I'm gonna be doing extra research over here...

[Mr.DeMartino]

Fair. His name wasn't in the article eggie posted though. Not like I'm gonna be doing extra research over here...

Thanks for acknowledging it.

Here's the scary part- How many other people haven't researched it or were unfamiliar with it and just supported it?

[tylerthegloob]

Fair. His name wasn't in the article eggie posted though. Not like I'm gonna be doing extra research over here...

Thanks for acknowledging it.

Here's the scary part- How many other people haven't researched it or were unfamiliar with it and just supported it?

Misinformation is a powerful thing.

[alexisalex]

That Jonathan Pie video is gold.  I can't remember how many times I've seen it now but the goosestepping at the end still gets me    Lovely nod to John Cleese

[alexisalex]

I remember at university in 2007, I was in a seminar and we were discussing racism and the EDL (English Defence League) got brought up.

I said somthing like "We should allow them to speak and to have a platform so that the public can listen to them and be aware of what they say then make up their own minds".

I'll never forget it; everyone looked at me like I had three heads.  This was over ten years ago.  Imagine if I were in university now and said something like that!  I dread to think lol.

[Andyman]

I'm not trying to be a knob, but the EDL didn't exist until 2009. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you just got the dates mixed up, and were still a student in 2009. When the EDL first appeared, it consisted of mainly football hooligans and members of fascist groups stomping around with "Muslims Go Home" signs. Their early marches invariably resulted in violence and property damage. The organization's founders have a plethora of criminal assault convictions, and had previously been members of the openly racist BNP. What kind of platform do you think society should provide for them? The failure of the BNP and other far-right groups shows little mainstream appetite for that brand of politics. Most British people don't want football hooligans parading through the streets, and think that a long rap sheet for violent crime would be a disqualifier for being taken seriously in politics.  Why should they make an exception for members of the EDL?

[eggieguffer]

I'm not trying to be a knob, but the EDL didn't exist until 2009. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you just got the dates mixed up, and were still a student in 2009. When the EDL first appeared, it consisted of mainly football hooligans and members of fascist groups stomping around with "Muslims Go Home" signs. Their early marches invariably resulted in violence and property damage. The organization's founders have a plethora of criminal assault convictions, and had previously been members of the openly racist BNP. What kind of platform do you think society should provide for them? The failure of the BNP and other far-right groups shows little mainstream appetite for that brand of politics. Most British people don't want football hooligans parading through the streets, and think that a long rap sheet for violent crime would be a disqualifier for being taken seriously in politics.  Why should they make an exception for members of the EDL?

One of the reasons the EDL formed was because of the decline of the BNP who lost a lot of support from their leader appearing on Question Time and badly losing the argument. This would have happened a lot sooner and they probably wouldn't have got any seats in the EP if people like you hadn't tried to stop them getting a voice. Tommy Robinson used to get TV air time but was only ever called a racist and asked questions about his criminal record. Consequently he now has a big internet following in the UK and the States. 500,000 people signed a ppetition to release him from prison. The Ex BNP leader Nick Griffin, who was treated fairly, disapeared without a trace.

[alexisalex]

I'm not trying to be a knob, but the EDL didn't exist until 2009. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you just got the dates mixed up, and were still a student in 2009. When the EDL first appeared, it consisted of mainly football hooligans and members of fascist groups stomping around with "Muslims Go Home" signs. Their early marches invariably resulted in violence and property damage. The organization's founders have a plethora of criminal assault convictions, and had previously been members of the openly racist BNP. What kind of platform do you think society should provide for them? The failure of the BNP and other far-right groups shows little mainstream appetite for that brand of politics. Most British people don't want football hooligans parading through the streets, and think that a long rap sheet for violent crime would be a disqualifier for being taken seriously in politics.  Why should they make an exception for members of the EDL?

Ah ok then it must have been the BNP, not the EDL.

But yeah that was exactly the point I was making back then.  It seems to have riled you up like it did those people in that seminar in 2007 lol.

[Andyman]

I'm not really sure what you're suggesting, but if it's that I'm unlikely to be persuaded by the political opinions of ex-con football hooligans with fascist affiliations, you are correct.

[Andyman]

And for what it's worth, I remember the Nick Griffin interview and was very much of the position that he should be given the opportunity to expose himself as the clown he is. I don't, however, think that a few incidents of smashing pub windows and screaming "Go home!" at Asians automatically qualified the EDL for a neutral, serious platform back in 2009.

[eggieguffer]

And for what it's worth, I remember the Nick Griffin interview and was very much of the position that he should be given the opportunity to expose himself as the clown he is. I don't, however, think that a few incidents of smashing pub windows and screaming "Go home!" at Asians automatically qualified the EDL for a neutral, serious platform back in 2009.

Well there are two sides to every story and we all know the main media opinion of the EDL. Here's quite a more well balanced account IMO, if you're interested in hearing both sides.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2013/10/extreme-measures-2/

Murray makes the same point as me that if Robinson had been treated fairly from the outset he wouldn't be so well known now.

[MayorHaggar]

[Andyman]

And for what it's worth, I remember the Nick Griffin interview and was very much of the position that he should be given the opportunity to expose himself as the clown he is. I don't, however, think that a few incidents of smashing pub windows and screaming "Go home!" at Asians automatically qualified the EDL for a neutral, serious platform back in 2009.

Well there are two sides to every story and we all know the main media opinion of the EDL. Here's quite a more well balanced account IMO, if you're interested in hearing both sides.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2013/10/extreme-measures-2/

Murray makes the same point as me that if Robinson had been treated fairly from the outset he wouldn't be so well known now.

I don't think that article really contradicts anything I said. It talks about the constant penetration of far-right troublemakers into the group, the regular violence and suggests that "Most of us will breathe a sigh of relief if the EDL’s brawling protests now cease." Okay, maybe some of the worst actors were attracted by the organization being branded "far-right" by the media, but how would you expect a bunch of ex-BNP members marching through the streets and making immigration their central platform to be characterized? All I'm saying is that they weren't automatically entitled to a lengthy sitdown with Jeremy Paxman within months of their first (chaotic and aggressive) appearance.

[eggieguffer]

And that they started with a legitimate grievance. Unfair treatment of locally based protest groups

[Andyman]

Okay, whatever. This thread is full of comedy gold and we're getting way off track by talking about your hero Tommy Robinson. More boring than the coat hook thing.

Favorite moments so far:

OP flaunting his membership of the master race by spouting a garbage pile of anti-Jewish pseudoscience

Chester Jim joining the fun with some insane gibberish about Isaac Newtown

Patrick Bateman asserting his manhood like a last-place competitor at a middle school wrestling match

More of this, please.