February 22, 2019, 12:07:04 PM


Ohmyzip.com From US To Korea - $7.50 (LB)
[SHOP US, SHIP KOREA] From $7.50 (1LB) + $1.74 per pound only! Use the Ohmyzip U.S. a tax-free state address as your shipping address at checkout. Sign up now to get a 10% off coupon on shipping. <Freight Forwarding Service / Courier Service>
http://www.ohmyzip.com/

Author Topic: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?  (Read 4483 times)

Online eggieguffer

  • Waygook Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 5052
  • Gender: Male
Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #100 on: January 14, 2019, 07:54:00 AM »
eggieguffer, if you insist that context is important with regard to hate speech (something with which I fully agree), why is it so hard to accept that context is also relevant to expressions of white pride? Maybe it will be different in the future, and maybe it was different in the past, but within our lifetime, most people encounter white pride as a prison tattoo or something screamed by a skinhead as he's putting the sole of his boot into an Indian shopkeeper's face. Or, to use a more immediate example, something that gets attached to a paranoid, anti-Semitic screed written by a swivel-eyed loon. That's why people are generally reluctant to announce "I'm proud to be white!" in "polite company". That's not the fault of the twitterati, or SJWs, or the government, or postmodernism, or the NAACP. You keep trying to divorce it from context and turn it into an abstract question of moral equivalency, based on entirely on decontextualized language, while ignoring the circumstances that have produced a taboo around it. Not all taboos are entirely logical, and the proscriptions against expressions of white pride may not satisfy your desire for perfect logical symmetry, but culture, history and morality are messy. In other words, context still matters.

I never said it was OK to talk about white pride in polite company. That was my whole point, it's not OK. Some people seemed to be implying that being proud about the achievements of Bell and Einstein is the same thing but my point was, it isn't.

Whether or not that's fair is another issue. Personally as I said I think the whole pride thing is silly but to take another example, many people in the UK have been taken to task for flying the English flag because some far right movements have used it in the past. That doesn't seem fair to me.

Online eggieguffer

  • Waygook Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 5052
  • Gender: Male
Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #101 on: January 14, 2019, 08:01:01 AM »
Quote
in other words, how would your average viewer of that video know it was a joke?

A video of a guy getting his dog to do a Hitler salute and someone watching it wouldn't realise it was a joke? What would they think, that he was genuinely training up the next weapon in the struggle against the big Jewish conspiracy? Come on.

Obviously not. But, that doesn't make the symbolism or the "gas the jews" part any less hateful. Where's the joke?

If I posted a video saying "gas the jews" without a dog, should I be able to just say "oh, it was a joke" once I start taking heat for it? I don't think so.

edit: im just curious. how far would he need to go for this to be hate speech to you? is the nuremberg rally video and hitler picture not enough?

I don't believe in hate speech as a criminal term, but if I did, there'd have to be proof that he had bad intentions towards Jewish people in his heart when he arranged the stunt and that when he said 'gas the jews' he was actually telling the audience this was what he wanted them to do. Known as a 'call to action' in the States, which doesn't have hate speech laws.

Just a thought but if someone attacks someone else for let's say being black and gay, and they shout out 'you black, gay b...stard' just before they punch the guy, should they be prosecuted for two hate crimes? Logically they should because the hate speech part is on top of the actual crime.

Well, I guess that's where we fundamentally disagree. I think very few well-meaning people would ever get in legal trouble for hate speech (which seems to be your concern). On the other hand, if we used your near impossibly high bar for what is hate speech, tons of people will (and do) have free reign to be as hateful as they want. That's not the kind of society I want to live in. That's not the kind of society that cultivates the virtues I hold dear.

I said before the number of people getting into trouble for this now is irrelevant. Here's another example from the UK  by the way.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-43816921

You know that Ricky Gervais has made jokes about the Holocaust, and that in his out of England show he also performed a Nazi salute? Now you can say that wasn't offensive and the pug dog was, but the only thing stopping  someone like Ricky Gervais being prosecuted in the UK is some bureaucrat's say so. That's not the kind of country I want to live in. You think it's worth losing a basic human right because some people get offended easily.

I don't know what nationality you are but I think the US have the right idea, enshrining freedom of speech in the constitution. The UK and Canada have badly messed up.

« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 08:06:31 AM by eggieguffer »

Offline Andyman

  • Super Waygook
  • ***
  • Posts: 438
Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #102 on: January 14, 2019, 08:17:21 AM »
eggieguffer, if you insist that context is important with regard to hate speech (something with which I fully agree), why is it so hard to accept that context is also relevant to expressions of white pride? Maybe it will be different in the future, and maybe it was different in the past, but within our lifetime, most people encounter white pride as a prison tattoo or something screamed by a skinhead as he's putting the sole of his boot into an Indian shopkeeper's face. Or, to use a more immediate example, something that gets attached to a paranoid, anti-Semitic screed written by a swivel-eyed loon. That's why people are generally reluctant to announce "I'm proud to be white!" in "polite company". That's not the fault of the twitterati, or SJWs, or the government, or postmodernism, or the NAACP. You keep trying to divorce it from context and turn it into an abstract question of moral equivalency, based on entirely on decontextualized language, while ignoring the circumstances that have produced a taboo around it. Not all taboos are entirely logical, and the proscriptions against expressions of white pride may not satisfy your desire for perfect logical symmetry, but culture, history and morality are messy. In other words, context still matters.

I never said it was OK to talk about white pride in polite company. That was my whole point, it's not OK. Some people seemed to be implying that being proud about the achievements of Bell and Einstein is the same thing but my point was, it isn't.

Whether or not that's fair is another issue. Personally as I said I think the whole pride thing is silly but to take another example, many people in the UK have been taken to task for flying the English flag because some far right movements have used it in the past. That doesn't seem fair to me.

Okay, I don't really disagree, but you're basically talking about social consequences that apply to some people, some of the time. That's a condition of living in a politically pluralistic society. In 2003, my family got harassed by right-wing "patriot" mobs (who undoubtedly now see themselves as torchbearers of free speech) after I wrote a letter to the editor of the local paper opposing the Iraq war. My dad has a business with our family name in it, some particularly dedicated patriots and champions of American freedom figured out the connection, and two days of his business were dedicated to fielding insults and fending off threats of varying credibility from people who didn't like what I had to say. That was unfair, but it was also a consequence of my decision to broadcast an unpopular opinion. These days, it would look tame and nobody would care if I expressed the exact same sentiments. It's a hard balance to strike between being circumspect in your expression and feeling so strongly about something that you're willing to face the backlash. We're all willing to moderate our language to some degree, depending on the strength of feeling about particular issues. "White pride" is definitely one where most people don't feel like the benefits outweigh the social costs.

Online Mr.DeMartino

  • Waygook Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 6145
  • Gender: Male
Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #103 on: January 14, 2019, 08:30:30 AM »
Quote
"Sir, my message is simple. N---, Jews, Mexicans, homosexuals, Arabs, and all different kinds of ch*nks stink and I hate 'em!"

"Kill that n---!"

"Don't let the liberal media tell you how to think and feel. If you've got hate in your heart let it you. If you have a problem watching Will & Grace that don't mean there's a problem with you. It means there's a problem with Will. He's a homosexual."

"Let's talk about Chinese people with their kung-fu and all their silly ching-chang-chong talk. I can't understand you. Go back to your country. White Power!"

eggiegffer, surely you think speech such as this should be banned? Like I said, this was said by someone in KKK garb. While the person was American, if they did such a thing in the UK, that would certainly constitute hate speech right?

Online eggieguffer

  • Waygook Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 5052
  • Gender: Male
Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #104 on: January 14, 2019, 08:35:32 AM »
eggieguffer, if you insist that context is important with regard to hate speech (something with which I fully agree), why is it so hard to accept that context is also relevant to expressions of white pride? Maybe it will be different in the future, and maybe it was different in the past, but within our lifetime, most people encounter white pride as a prison tattoo or something screamed by a skinhead as he's putting the sole of his boot into an Indian shopkeeper's face. Or, to use a more immediate example, something that gets attached to a paranoid, anti-Semitic screed written by a swivel-eyed loon. That's why people are generally reluctant to announce "I'm proud to be white!" in "polite company". That's not the fault of the twitterati, or SJWs, or the government, or postmodernism, or the NAACP. You keep trying to divorce it from context and turn it into an abstract question of moral equivalency, based on entirely on decontextualized language, while ignoring the circumstances that have produced a taboo around it. Not all taboos are entirely logical, and the proscriptions against expressions of white pride may not satisfy your desire for perfect logical symmetry, but culture, history and morality are messy. In other words, context still matters.

I never said it was OK to talk about white pride in polite company. That was my whole point, it's not OK. Some people seemed to be implying that being proud about the achievements of Bell and Einstein is the same thing but my point was, it isn't.

Whether or not that's fair is another issue. Personally as I said I think the whole pride thing is silly but to take another example, many people in the UK have been taken to task for flying the English flag because some far right movements have used it in the past. That doesn't seem fair to me.

Okay, I don't really disagree, but you're basically talking about social consequences that apply to some people, some of the time. That's a condition of living in a politically pluralistic society. In 2003, my family got harassed by right-wing "patriot" mobs (who undoubtedly now see themselves as torchbearers of free speech) after I wrote a letter to the editor of the local paper opposing the Iraq war. My dad has a business with our family name in it, some particularly dedicated patriots and champions of American freedom figured out the connection, and two days of his business were dedicated to fielding insults and fending off threats of varying credibility from people who didn't like what I had to say. That was unfair, but it was also a consequence of my decision to broadcast an unpopular opinion. These days, it would look tame and nobody would care if I expressed the exact same sentiments. It's a hard balance to strike between being circumspect in your expression and feeling so strongly about something that you're willing to face the backlash. We're all willing to moderate our language to some degree, depending on the strength of feeling about particular issues. "White pride" is definitely one where most people don't feel like the benefits outweigh the social costs.

Is this a two wrongs make a right argument? because it sounds like one.

Online eggieguffer

  • Waygook Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 5052
  • Gender: Male
Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #105 on: January 14, 2019, 08:39:33 AM »
Quote
"Sir, my message is simple. N---, Jews, Mexicans, homosexuals, Arabs, and all different kinds of ch*nks stink and I hate 'em!"

"Kill that n---!"

"Don't let the liberal media tell you how to think and feel. If you've got hate in your heart let it you. If you have a problem watching Will & Grace that don't mean there's a problem with you. It means there's a problem with Will. He's a homosexual."

"Let's talk about Chinese people with their kung-fu and all their silly ching-chang-chong talk. I can't understand you. Go back to your country. White Power!"

eggiegffer, surely you think speech such as this should be banned? Like I said, this was said by someone in KKK garb. While the person was American, if they did such a thing in the UK, that would certainly constitute hate speech right?

Depends what you mean by banned. Should it be broadcast on TV,? Probably not, should the person who says this kind of thing be banned from speaking in private venues? Yes . Should a person standing on a soap box in a public place, such as speakers corner, saying it, be arrested and charged by the police? No. Although the second one could be construed as a call to action, which should be an offense.

By the way can you really not see any difference between this and a guy getting his pug dog to do a nazi salute to annoy his Gf on YouTube?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 08:50:17 AM by eggieguffer »

Offline Andyman

  • Super Waygook
  • ***
  • Posts: 438
Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #106 on: January 14, 2019, 08:43:23 AM »
eggieguffer, if you insist that context is important with regard to hate speech (something with which I fully agree), why is it so hard to accept that context is also relevant to expressions of white pride? Maybe it will be different in the future, and maybe it was different in the past, but within our lifetime, most people encounter white pride as a prison tattoo or something screamed by a skinhead as he's putting the sole of his boot into an Indian shopkeeper's face. Or, to use a more immediate example, something that gets attached to a paranoid, anti-Semitic screed written by a swivel-eyed loon. That's why people are generally reluctant to announce "I'm proud to be white!" in "polite company". That's not the fault of the twitterati, or SJWs, or the government, or postmodernism, or the NAACP. You keep trying to divorce it from context and turn it into an abstract question of moral equivalency, based on entirely on decontextualized language, while ignoring the circumstances that have produced a taboo around it. Not all taboos are entirely logical, and the proscriptions against expressions of white pride may not satisfy your desire for perfect logical symmetry, but culture, history and morality are messy. In other words, context still matters.

I never said it was OK to talk about white pride in polite company. That was my whole point, it's not OK. Some people seemed to be implying that being proud about the achievements of Bell and Einstein is the same thing but my point was, it isn't.

Whether or not that's fair is another issue. Personally as I said I think the whole pride thing is silly but to take another example, many people in the UK have been taken to task for flying the English flag because some far right movements have used it in the past. That doesn't seem fair to me.

Okay, I don't really disagree, but you're basically talking about social consequences that apply to some people, some of the time. That's a condition of living in a politically pluralistic society. In 2003, my family got harassed by right-wing "patriot" mobs (who undoubtedly now see themselves as torchbearers of free speech) after I wrote a letter to the editor of the local paper opposing the Iraq war. My dad has a business with our family name in it, some particularly dedicated patriots and champions of American freedom figured out the connection, and two days of his business were dedicated to fielding insults and fending off threats of varying credibility from people who didn't like what I had to say. That was unfair, but it was also a consequence of my decision to broadcast an unpopular opinion. These days, it would look tame and nobody would care if I expressed the exact same sentiments. It's a hard balance to strike between being circumspect in your expression and feeling so strongly about something that you're willing to face the backlash. We're all willing to moderate our language to some degree, depending on the strength of feeling about particular issues. "White pride" is definitely one where most people don't feel like the benefits outweigh the social costs.

Is this a two wrongs make a right argument? because it sounds like one.

No, it's a comment on why free speech, even when it is enshrined in law, can still leave some parties feeling aggrieved and insufficiently protected.

Online tylerthegloob

  • Super Waygook
  • ***
  • Posts: 471
  • Gender: Male
  • gg wp
Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #107 on: January 14, 2019, 10:31:35 AM »
You think it's worth losing a basic human right because some people get offended easily.

I don't know what nationality you are but I think the US have the right idea, enshrining freedom of speech in the constitution. The UK and Canada have badly messed up.

No. I don't think talking about gassing people is a basic human right. All rights have restrictions. It's not a black and white issue. There are forms of speech that are protected and others that are not in every country (that I can think of) with free speech protections. I am American, but I don't think this kind of speech should be protected. I'm in no way against the idea of free speech.

Also, if you remember earlier in our conversation, I mentioned I don't think gov'ts should get any more involved than they already are. I think private companies and citizens (your "twiterati") are doing a fine job policing hate speech themselves. I wouldn't advocate changing the American laws. That said, I'm not as appalled about what they're doing in your country as you are.

Online Mr.DeMartino

  • Waygook Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 6145
  • Gender: Male
Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #108 on: January 14, 2019, 10:38:48 AM »
You think it's worth losing a basic human right because some people get offended easily.

I don't know what nationality you are but I think the US have the right idea, enshrining freedom of speech in the constitution. The UK and Canada have badly messed up.

No. I don't think talking about gassing people is a basic human right. All rights have restrictions. It's not a black and white issue. There are forms of speech that are protected and others that are not in every country (that I can think of) with free speech protections. I am American, but I don't think this kind of speech should be protected. I'm in no way against the idea of free speech.

Also, if you remember earlier in our conversation, I mentioned I don't think gov'ts should get any more involved than they already are. I think private companies and citizens (your "twiterati") are doing a fine job policing hate speech themselves. I wouldn't advocate changing the American laws. That said, I'm not as appalled about what they're doing in your country as you are.

So you'd be in favor of banning speech like this?

Quote
"Sir, my message is simple. N---, Jews, Mexicans, homosexuals, Arabs, and all different kinds of ch*nks stink and I hate 'em!"

"Kill that n---!"

"Don't let the liberal media tell you how to think and feel. If you've got hate in your heart let it you. If you have a problem watching Will & Grace that don't mean there's a problem with you. It means there's a problem with Will. He's a homosexual."

"Let's talk about Chinese people with their kung-fu and all their silly ching-chang-chong talk. I can't understand you. Go back to your country. White Power!"

Online eggieguffer

  • Waygook Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 5052
  • Gender: Male
Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #109 on: January 14, 2019, 10:46:15 AM »
Quote

No. I don't think talking about gassing people is a basic human right.


Be careful how you express the idea of freedom of speech. As you say,  it's not a black and white issue so it's not enough just to say 'talking about gassing people shouldn't be a human right'. Make it clear you are also saying 'making jokes about gassing people shouldn't be a human right.' That seems to be what you think, yes? I mentioned the Ricky Gervais example which you didn't respond to. He also said 'making jokes about a bad thing is not the same as the bad thing. Are you of the opinion that there are some topics you should never joke about? Like the Holocaust or Rape?

You also keep going back to individual cases without seeming to appreciate that there's a massive principle at stake.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 10:54:06 AM by eggieguffer »

Online tylerthegloob

  • Super Waygook
  • ***
  • Posts: 471
  • Gender: Male
  • gg wp
Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #110 on: January 14, 2019, 10:52:47 AM »

So you'd be in favor of banning speech like this?

Quote
"Sir, my message is simple. N---, Jews, Mexicans, homosexuals, Arabs, and all different kinds of ch*nks stink and I hate 'em!"

"Kill that n---!"

"Don't let the liberal media tell you how to think and feel. If you've got hate in your heart let it you. If you have a problem watching Will & Grace that don't mean there's a problem with you. It means there's a problem with Will. He's a homosexual."

"Let's talk about Chinese people with their kung-fu and all their silly ching-chang-chong talk. I can't understand you. Go back to your country. White Power!"

"Banning" in what sense?

Offline Renma

  • Adventurer
  • *
  • Posts: 31
Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #111 on: January 14, 2019, 10:53:22 AM »

So you'd be in favor of banning speech like this?

Quote
"Sir, my message is simple. N---, Jews, Mexicans, homosexuals, Arabs, and all different kinds of ch*nks stink and I hate 'em!"

"Kill that n---!"

"Don't let the liberal media tell you how to think and feel. If you've got hate in your heart let it you. If you have a problem watching Will & Grace that don't mean there's a problem with you. It means there's a problem with Will. He's a homosexual."

"Let's talk about Chinese people with their kung-fu and all their silly ching-chang-chong talk. I can't understand you. Go back to your country. White Power!"

Maybe they don't recognise Clayton Bigsby.

Online eggieguffer

  • Waygook Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 5052
  • Gender: Male
Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #112 on: January 14, 2019, 10:56:02 AM »

So you'd be in favor of banning speech like this?

Quote
"Sir, my message is simple. N---, Jews, Mexicans, homosexuals, Arabs, and all different kinds of ch*nks stink and I hate 'em!"

"Kill that n---!"

"Don't let the liberal media tell you how to think and feel. If you've got hate in your heart let it you. If you have a problem watching Will & Grace that don't mean there's a problem with you. It means there's a problem with Will. He's a homosexual."

"Let's talk about Chinese people with their kung-fu and all their silly ching-chang-chong talk. I can't understand you. Go back to your country. White Power!"

Maybe they don't recognise Clayton Bigsby.

Ah I see what he did now, very clever.

Online tylerthegloob

  • Super Waygook
  • ***
  • Posts: 471
  • Gender: Male
  • gg wp
Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #113 on: January 14, 2019, 10:56:08 AM »
Quote

No. I don't think talking about gassing people is a basic human right.


Be careful how you express the idea of freedom of speech. As you say,  it's not a black and white issue so it's not enough just to say 'talking about gassing people shouldn't be a human right'. Make it clear you are also saying 'making jokes about gassing people shouldn't be a human right.' That seems to be what you think, yes? I mentioned the Ricky Gervais example which you didn't respond to. He also said 'making jokes about a bad thing is not the same as the bad thing. Are you of the opinion that there are some topics you should never joke about? Like the Holocaust or Rape?

I'm not saying making jokes about it shouldn't be protected. Can you truly not see the contextual difference between a comedy set or a comedian saying something and some random on youtube posting a video (specifically, a video that proudly portrays Nazi Germany in other aspects)?

Offline Mr C

  • Hero of Waygookistan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1573
  • Gender: Male
Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #114 on: January 14, 2019, 10:56:48 AM »
Quote

Which is something that can't possibly be proved.  Well done, sir. 


Which is why I'm not a fan of thought crime laws.
Which is why we don't have thought crime laws.  We do, however, have hate speech laws, because someone's speech can certainly be proven.
Quote
Though you could show beyond reasonable doubt that the guy had a history of violence/antagonism towards Jewish people and had a following with the same intentions. Which he didn't by the way.

Quote


After all, training your pet to mimic one of the most hated symbols of oppression in the post-war world for fun is not at all an insight into your deeper being.  Nuff said.

It's reactions like these that actually turn it into a funny joke. The outrage. Reminds me of the way people talked about Life of Brian back in the 80s. Is nothing sacred? etc...

No, not at all.  You have this exactly backwards. Reactions don't make something funny. Life of Brian is satire.  It exists as satire even when sitting in a film canister with no one watching it--reactions to it are explicitly not what makes it funny.

Online tylerthegloob

  • Super Waygook
  • ***
  • Posts: 471
  • Gender: Male
  • gg wp
Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #115 on: January 14, 2019, 10:57:12 AM »

So you'd be in favor of banning speech like this?

Quote
"Sir, my message is simple. N---, Jews, Mexicans, homosexuals, Arabs, and all different kinds of ch*nks stink and I hate 'em!"

"Kill that n---!"

"Don't let the liberal media tell you how to think and feel. If you've got hate in your heart let it you. If you have a problem watching Will & Grace that don't mean there's a problem with you. It means there's a problem with Will. He's a homosexual."

"Let's talk about Chinese people with their kung-fu and all their silly ching-chang-chong talk. I can't understand you. Go back to your country. White Power!"

Maybe they don't recognise Clayton Bigsby.

FFS. Again, a comedian doing something in the context of a skit show or stand-up set is different than some random on the street shouting it at you.

Online Mr.DeMartino

  • Waygook Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 6145
  • Gender: Male
Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #116 on: January 14, 2019, 11:01:04 AM »
Maybe they don't recognise Clayton Bigsby.
Ahhh....you spoiled it.

That was kind of the point. People were talking about comedy so I decided to see how they'd react. If they didn't know who it was and simply took "Guy in KKK garb said these things" at face value, they'd go for it being banned (or in eggie's case, to see how far he'd support free speech).

If "Gas the Jews" warrants a banning when done as comedy, surely Dave Chappelle, whose Clayton Bigsby sketch is considered an all-time classic and whose show is legendary, deserves to be declared a hate monger. The man literally said "Kill that n----" "Go back to your country" "White Power" and "Send Condelezza Rice to Mexico so the Mexicans will eat her". If some pug throwing up a salute to "Gas the Jews" is hate speech, than this has to be as well.

Count Dankula wasn't on the level of Chappelle, but we can't have different standards of free speech for comedians based on how successful they are. And it's not like Count Dankula was a total nobody. He did have a minor following.

Also, for anyone to talk about comedy, and not instantly recognize those quotes, sorta disqualifies them from a discussion on comedy.

Online eggieguffer

  • Waygook Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 5052
  • Gender: Male
Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #117 on: January 14, 2019, 11:03:56 AM »
Quote
Which is why we don't have thought crime laws.  We do, however, have hate speech laws, because someone's speech can certainly be proven.
Quote

We've been going over this for a while - it's not what you say it's the context you say it in. See Demartino's example.

Online tylerthegloob

  • Super Waygook
  • ***
  • Posts: 471
  • Gender: Male
  • gg wp
Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #118 on: January 14, 2019, 11:05:34 AM »
Maybe they don't recognise Clayton Bigsby.
Ahhh....you spoiled it.

That was kind of the point. People were talking about comedy so I decided to see how they'd react. If they didn't know who it was and simply took "Guy in KKK garb said these things" at face value, they'd go for it being banned (or in eggie's case, to see how far he'd support free speech).

If "Gas the Jews" warrants a banning when done as comedy, surely Dave Chappelle, whose Clayton Bigsby sketch is considered an all-time classic and whose show is legendary, deserves to be declared a hate monger. The man literally said "Kill that n----" "Go back to your country" "White Power" and "Send Condelezza Rice to Mexico so the Mexicans will eat her". If some pug throwing up a salute to "Gas the Jews" is hate speech, than this has to be as well.

Count Dankula wasn't on the level of Chappelle, but we can't have different standards of free speech for comedians based on how successful they are. And it's not like Count Dankula was a total nobody. He did have a minor following.

Also, for anyone to talk about comedy, and not instantly recognize those quotes, sorta disqualifies them from a discussion on comedy.

Does Count Dankula run a comedy/satire youtube page?

Online eggieguffer

  • Waygook Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 5052
  • Gender: Male
Re: Any New Right EFL Teachers in Seoul?
« Reply #119 on: January 14, 2019, 11:06:17 AM »
Quote

No. I don't think talking about gassing people is a basic human right.


Be careful how you express the idea of freedom of speech. As you say,  it's not a black and white issue so it's not enough just to say 'talking about gassing people shouldn't be a human right'. Make it clear you are also saying 'making jokes about gassing people shouldn't be a human right.' That seems to be what you think, yes? I mentioned the Ricky Gervais example which you didn't respond to. He also said 'making jokes about a bad thing is not the same as the bad thing. Are you of the opinion that there are some topics you should never joke about? Like the Holocaust or Rape?

I'm not saying making jokes about it shouldn't be protected. Can you truly not see the contextual difference between a comedy set or a comedian saying something and some random on youtube posting a video (specifically, a video that proudly portrays Nazi Germany in other aspects)?

Of course I can see the difference. One is in poorer taste than the other, but they're both jokes. Count  Dankula's  comedy medium is YouTube, Gervais' is TV.