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Author Topic: 10 hour work days  (Read 1713 times)

Offline APH

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10 hour work days
« on: January 06, 2019, 08:21:05 PM »
How common is it for Hagwon teachers to work such long hours? I work 09:30-19:30 Monday to Friday with 10 days off a year. I知 in my third month now and while I actually think I知 lucky to have landed a job at such a nice school with such friendly staff and students, the hours are still quite draining. It feels like 90% of my time I知 at the school and when I知 home I basically just make dinner and go to bed.

Having no time during the week means my only real time to relax and get errands and things like that done is the weekend. I知 still in my early twenties and still haven稚 decided on whether or not I値l be staying on after this year so I want to get out there and enjoy myself and find that good work-life balance so I can make a proper informed decision.

I知 curious if there are a lot of other teachers who work long hours like this at a Hagwon, as you do sometimes see 澱etter hours stated as a benefit of working at a Hagwon compared to a public school? Also, I get that the culture here is just work as much as humanly possible, so maybe I should just shut up and get on with it?

Online VanIslander

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Re: 10 hour work days
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2019, 11:11:28 PM »
I've worked 3.5+3.5+7+1.5=15+ years at four different hagwons and even at my busiest I NEVER worked a 10-day day.

Usually 4-6 hours with an extra hour of prep.

My busiest day since 2002 was a few years ago when I worked an unusual two extra vacation classes for a month from 1230pm to 230pm, then my regular shift til 7, plus two more OT classes: a month of 1230 to 9 which is 8.5 hours and with the OT pay and vacay extra classes pay I made an extra 1.4 mill that month! And that was just one month and the director bought lavish dinners and apologized for the long days, though I said no sweat.

It's rare to put in a hard-working eight-hour workday in the hagwon industry unless you actually choose to work at a split shift place, with kindy or adult morning classes. Ugh. I always ask in phone interviews: what time does the office/institute open? If the answer is noon, 1 or 2, then I take that as a green light.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 11:13:48 PM by VanIslander »

Offline APH

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Re: 10 hour work days
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2019, 12:26:47 AM »
Should probably add, my actual in class teaching hours comes to just under 30 hours a week as we池e given 2-4 breaks throughout the day depending on the day (vary between 30, 40 and 60 minute breaks). We池e required to stay at the school for the full 09:30-19:30 though.

That was another thing i wanted to ask actually. I知 only paid for my in class teaching hours so not the extra hours spent at the school not teaching, break times etc. Yet I知 told even if it痴 a day where my last class of the day finishes at 18:30 for example, I知 required to stay at the school until 19:30, even though I知 not being paid for it? I don稚 particularly mind this too much as it gives me time to get some admin done but just thought it was a bit odd that I知 not allowed to go home even after I致e finished all my work for the day so have to just sit and wait for the 19:30 bell.

Offline Piggydee

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Re: 10 hour work days
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2019, 07:06:04 AM »
Sounds pretty standard to me.  2.5 hours in the morning for kindies and the rest of the time to older students.  Factor in any lesson planning and yeah your hours sound about right. 

Offline SuperDoodle23

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Re: 10 hour work days
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2019, 08:02:36 AM »

I知 curious if there are a lot of other teachers who work long hours like this at a Hagwon, as you do sometimes see 澱etter hours stated as a benefit of working at a Hagwon compared to a public school? Also, I get that the culture here is just work as much as humanly possible, so maybe I should just shut up and get on with it?

 It seems like you fell for some recruiter b.s. I don't get where you think that hagwon hours are better. In some cases they have better STARTING hours, such as starting at 1 or 2pm. Generally hagwons will try to squeeze every last dime they can out of you though. In my opinion one of the benefits of working at a hagwon is starting afternoon hours, but it seems like you didn't choose to do that. You are working about 40 hours more a month compared to someone working at a public school.

Offline Piggydee

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Re: 10 hour work days
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2019, 08:41:11 AM »
I agree with SuperDoodle23, the slightly better hakwons (and that's not saying too much) tend to have starting hours after 11am or 1pm, but often times they make up for it by having you stay later (till 9pm or 10pm, I've heard even later  :huh:)  Those hakwons tend to be better because 1) You have more personal time for yourself in the morning, fitting in a workout etc. (unless you sleep in till you need to be ready for work then this kind of doesn't apply to you. 2) The staff tend to be less uptight, unless they just woke up an hour ago then still the same amount of stress.  3) The kids tend to be a bit mellower in the afternoon.  Sometimes.  :rolleyes: 4) You don't have to eat the sh**y lunch they serve there or eat with the kids....unless your hakwon allows you to eat off of campus but that gets expensive over time.   

Online MayorHaggar

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Re: 10 hour work days
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2019, 10:54:14 AM »
I'd say it's pretty common for kindy hagwons to have such long days. You do like 4 to 5 hours of kindy in the morning from 9 or 10 until 2pm, then do elementary classes in the afternoon until 6 or 7.

If you are working long hours and don't want to, it's either because you agreed to it or the contract is vague and you didn't fight it. You can add whatever you want into a contract, if the hagwon doesn't want to agree to this then you don't want to work there. There's no reason they shouldn't agree to an overtime clause and a work hours clause.

Below is what any hagwon contract should have, but a lot of them don't.

- state the hours of the hagwon. "The school opening hours will be from X o'clock to X o'clock" or "the teacher will be required to be at the school from X o'clock to X o'clock" or something like that.

- state your work hours and put in an overtime clause to discourage unpaid overtime.  Something like "teacher will be required to work from X o'clock to X o'clock. Teacher will be required to teach X number of classes per week. One class = X minutes. Any time worked past X hours per week will be paid at X per hour. Teacher will have X amount of breaks per week." It's common for hagwons to have one open day a year on a Saturday where prospective parents will come and listen to a spiel from the director and sign their kids up, you probably will have to do this unpaid but they should only do one or two a year and it shouldn't last too long.

None of this will really help you with immigration or the "labor board" if you think your contract is being violated, but having these clauses makes it a lot less likely that your boss will expect unpaid overtime or long work hours. If you don't have these clauses the boss will probably keep adding classes and hours to your schedule.

If you are making 2.1 to 2.3m a month you shouldn't agree to anything over 40 hours a week, that's just silly. Plenty of hagwons will pay that for 40 hours or less. If they expect longer hours they should pay more. And I mean 40 hours as in from when you come into the school until when you leave every day, not teaching hours.

30 hours of teaching hours is "the norm" but it can be pretty fungible. I found that doing 30 hours at a hagwon was easier than 20 at a public school because most of the time I didn't have to plan anything, and I didn't have to get big classes of 30 kids doing activities.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 11:00:33 AM by MayorHaggar »
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Offline Piggydee

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Re: 10 hour work days
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2019, 11:54:53 AM »
I'd say it's pretty common for kindy hagwons to have such long days. You do like 4 to 5 hours of kindy in the morning from 9 or 10 until 2pm, then do elementary classes in the afternoon until 6 or 7.


MayorHaggar you are more accurate with the hours you stated.  I forgot I used to do kindies from 9:50 to 2:10pm.  It's DEFINATLY not 2.5 hours....but 3 hours and some time (if you exclude the hour break you get for lunch but even then most schools require you to eat with the kids.  My hellwon didn't do that but the kids would come into the teachers' room during lunch and pester the pants off of us while we were eating so I might as well have been sitting with the kids  :rolleyes:)

Offline Allpointseast

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Re: 10 hour work days
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2019, 11:27:36 PM »
  I think it was President Lee Myung-bak who created that monster known as the kindie-elementary. Back in the day, there were kindergartens but mostly 9-5. President Lee wanted to loosen business regulations, and allowed kindergartens to stay open longer by grabbing kids from the elementary-middle school hagwons.
My main problem is that you have to be in school from 9 a.m. to 7. That's pretty terrible, especially because you may bot be paid that much extra.

 

Online waygo0k

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Re: 10 hour work days
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2019, 05:56:34 AM »
It痴 fast becoming the new normal, and these jobs are STILL paying the standard 2.1-2.3 before tax, pension etc.

I don稚 think hagwons arr charging parents less than they did 5yrs ago though, when people were working 4-8hrs a day (up to 30 teaching hrs a week) and earning the same, without mandatory desktime.

Offline APH

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Re: 10 hour work days
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2019, 10:37:58 AM »
Yeah the main issue with it is the fact that you池e only paid for your actual in class teaching hours. So whilst I may be teaching the same amount of hours as other teachers, I知 still in work for a couple of extra hours unpaid. Plus the whole 途egardless of what time your classes finish you池e required to stay until 19:30 every day even though we aren稚 paying you for that time makes 0 sense to me.

Online oglop

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Re: 10 hour work days
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2019, 10:45:38 AM »
i see ads about that say something like

SHORT HOURS, GOOD PAY
9-7pm, 2.2m

Offline hangook77

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Re: 10 hour work days
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2019, 09:18:12 AM »
How common is it for Hagwon teachers to work such long hours? I work 09:30-19:30 Monday to Friday with 10 days off a year. I知 in my third month now and while I actually think I知 lucky to have landed a job at such a nice school with such friendly staff and students, the hours are still quite draining. It feels like 90% of my time I知 at the school and when I知 home I basically just make dinner and go to bed.

Having no time during the week means my only real time to relax and get errands and things like that done is the weekend. I知 still in my early twenties and still haven稚 decided on whether or not I値l be staying on after this year so I want to get out there and enjoy myself and find that good work-life balance so I can make a proper informed decision.

I知 curious if there are a lot of other teachers who work long hours like this at a Hagwon, as you do sometimes see 澱etter hours stated as a benefit of working at a Hagwon compared to a public school? Also, I get that the culture here is just work as much as humanly possible, so maybe I should just shut up and get on with it?

Pretty long days unless there is a long break in between that you can leave and do whatever.  Hopefully, you are being paid for it.  Upper 2.s or even 3 million for all that work.  If not, you're being ripped off. 

Offline some waygug-in

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Re: 10 hour work days
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2019, 10:38:01 PM »
I don't know how common those kinds of hours are these days, but I sure never would have

accepted that bit about staying there when you're not teaching. 

Was that in you contract?   If it was and you signed it, it's your own fault.

If it's not in the contract and it's just something they are trying to impose on you

after the fact, then I would just ignore it and leave when you want to.

But be careful about how you do it.  If you have a good relationship with them, you

don't want to start a fuss if you don't have to.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 11:07:15 PM by some waygug-in »

Offline persimmon14

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Re: 10 hour work days
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2019, 11:03:33 AM »
I have a friend in a big city who works at a hagwon.  She starts from 10am and finishes at 10pm.  Of course there are breaks inbetween classes (lunch, an hour or two in the evening etc) but basically a 12 hour day (maybe 8-9 hours of actually teaching hours) but she gets paid well.  Think about it like this, some of the classes have as many as 40 adults per class.  So you know you're going to get paid handsomely with that amount of students.   Pay is based on how many students you have per class. 

I'd still prefer to work in PS, but some hagwon gigs have a really good setup and you can make bank.

Offline hangook77

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Re: 10 hour work days
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2019, 08:43:01 AM »
I have a friend in a big city who works at a hagwon.  She starts from 10am and finishes at 10pm.  Of course there are breaks inbetween classes (lunch, an hour or two in the evening etc) but basically a 12 hour day (maybe 8-9 hours of actually teaching hours) but she gets paid well.  Think about it like this, some of the classes have as many as 40 adults per class.  So you know you're going to get paid handsomely with that amount of students.   Pay is based on how many students you have per class. 

I'd still prefer to work in PS, but some hagwon gigs have a really good setup and you can make bank.

You should be making 3 million for that.

Online MayorHaggar

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Re: 10 hour work days
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2019, 07:01:30 PM »


Pretty long days unless there is a long break in between that you can leave and do whatever.  Hopefully, you are being paid for it.  Upper 2.s or even 3 million for all that work.  If not, you're being ripped off.

Jobs that pay that high might as well not exist for most people. The vast majority of hagwons pay 2.1m to someone who just arrived at Incheon. Once you're in Korea and have a year or two under your belt you can ask for more and maybe get away with it because the school doesn't have to pay for your inbound flight.
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Online waygo0k

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Re: 10 hour work days
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2019, 11:13:55 AM »
I have a friend in a big city who works at a hagwon.  She starts from 10am and finishes at 10pm.  Of course there are breaks inbetween classes (lunch, an hour or two in the evening etc) but basically a 12 hour day (maybe 8-9 hours of actually teaching hours) but she gets paid well.  Think about it like this, some of the classes have as many as 40 adults per class.  So you know you're going to get paid handsomely with that amount of students.   Pay is based on how many students you have per class. 

I'd still prefer to work in PS, but some hagwon gigs have a really good setup and you can make bank.

If you're teaching 8-9hrs per day out of a 12hr day, you should be hitting the 4 million mark excluding accommodation. Anything below that, you're seriously shortchanging yourself.

Assuming the person gets paid the standard average NET pay per hour (around 18-20k won), that would amount to around 3 million won for teaching 8hrs a day, 5 days a week.

Since 8 teaching hours per day is a 40hr teaching week, any extra hours you do would essentially be overtime. So we're talking an extra 3-4hrs overtime per day, if someone is working 12hr days...which amounts to 1.1 - 1.5 million won EXTRA that is being ignored/forfeited (assuming the overtime rate is the same as regular work hour rates...being generous to the employer here).

If we were to use overtime rates that are higher than standard work hour rates (say 25-30k won per hour), we'd be looking at 1.5 - 2 million won in overtime pay. Which would bring the total pay for those working hours to 4.5 - 5 million per month excluding housing.

I don't think people realise how much they're being shafted with these stupid 10hr day 2.2mil contracts.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 11:20:53 AM by waygo0k »

Online NorthStar

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Re: 10 hour work days
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2019, 11:56:27 AM »
I have a friend in a big city who works at a hagwon.  She starts from 10am and finishes at 10pm.  Of course there are breaks inbetween classes (lunch, an hour or two in the evening etc) but basically a 12 hour day (maybe 8-9 hours of actually teaching hours) but she gets paid well.  Think about it like this, some of the classes have as many as 40 adults per class.  So you know you're going to get paid handsomely with that amount of students.   Pay is based on how many students you have per class. 

I'd still prefer to work in PS, but some hagwon gigs have a really good setup and you can make bank.

If you're teaching 8-9hrs per day out of a 12hr day, you should be hitting the 4 million mark excluding accommodation. Anything below that, you're seriously shortchanging yourself.

Assuming the person gets paid the standard average NET pay per hour (around 18-20k won), that would amount to around 3 million won for teaching 8hrs a day, 5 days a week.

Since 8 teaching hours per day is a 40hr teaching week, any extra hours you do would essentially be overtime. So we're talking an extra 3-4hrs overtime per day, if someone is working 12hr days...which amounts to 1.1 - 1.5 million won EXTRA that is being ignored/forfeited (assuming the overtime rate is the same as regular work hour rates...being generous to the employer here).

If we were to use overtime rates that are higher than standard work hour rates (say 25-30k won per hour), we'd be looking at 1.5 - 2 million won in overtime pay. Which would bring the total pay for those working hours to 4.5 - 5 million per month excluding housing.

I don't think people realise how much they're being shafted with these stupid 10hr day 2.2mil contracts.

But, it's all for the children!!!

 :rolleyes:

Offline Allpointseast

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Re: 10 hour work days
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2019, 07:48:46 PM »
  Recently, I was shocked to find that some of the real permanent long-term teachers I knew who had been teaching in Seoul for years and years, were now pulling out due to low salaries. For a while I used to meet these people in Itaewon, in places like Seoul Pub, or the Rose & Crown, and we had great times. One guy had been with EPIK/SMOE since 2001, and had never taught in a hagwon. Other people had moved from hagwon to hagwon, and one taught 9 a.m. to 6 p.m. I had had the impression they were on higher salaries, in better positions. (They did get more than 2.1 million per month).  Yet, as they left, I started seeing slightly higher starting salaries of 2.3 million or 2.5 million won for an 8 hour day, and in the 10 hour kindergartens, 2.6 million or even 2.9 million. Admittedly this isn't that common, but it's the first time I have seen a rise.