February 22, 2019, 01:00:46 PM


Author Topic: Best K pop songs in the last ten years  (Read 2592 times)

Online Mister Tim

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Re: Best K pop songs in the last ten years
« Reply #60 on: February 08, 2019, 12:40:49 PM »
When did it become bad to simply not like something?

Sounds like something an old fuddy-duddy from a non-diverse background would say.

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Best K pop songs in the last ten years
« Reply #61 on: February 08, 2019, 12:58:15 PM »
When did it become bad to simply not like something?

Sounds like something an old fuddy-duddy from a non-diverse background would say.
It's one thing to not like something. It's another to then go out and trash it. I mean, it's not THAT bad and can make for some good, fun banter, if done in half-jest, half-truth.

If it's done in bitterness and anger, then that's just sad. It's especially really sad if you start judging people's character based on it.

Like, I may trash Ohio St. and the Colorado Avalanche, but I don't in any way believe that it reflects on their fans'  character. But people actually judge people on whether or not they like K-pop and that's...immature. Anyone with an ounce of REAL experience in this world would know that you really can't judge someone's character by their musical taste. Fun to hang out with? Maybe. But as a person? No, sorry, some guy who works for Doctors Without Borders' life is not empty or shallow because he listens to Top 40 or isn't into music at all.

Also, you don't see Kpop people going on some post about "Favorite Rock Songs" or "X Band Tickets" and trashing the genre. Even this thread, everyone was just talking about their favorite songs and then someone had to come on here and start bashing the music.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 01:13:43 PM by Mr.DeMartino »

Online Savant

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Re: Best K pop songs in the last ten years
« Reply #62 on: February 08, 2019, 01:14:57 PM »
When did it become bad to simply not like something?

When it is prefixed by "K-" and then Steels will jump down your throat.

Offline Kayos

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Re: Best K pop songs in the last ten years
« Reply #63 on: February 08, 2019, 01:15:40 PM »
There are a bunch of YouTube videos online that show these groups singing without auto-tune. It ain't pretty!
There's also A LOT more of a lot of them singing, singing well and playing musical instruments.


There's good K-pop?! :O Isn't it just a bunch of pretty people, that are well coordinated and good at dancing, that lip sync, and usually don't even play any instruments, due to dancing?
I've seen one of the big girl groups (twice I think) live, and it was easily noticeable that they weren't singing. :p - Luckily I didn't pay to see that. :p

Call me old fashioned, but I need my musicians to at least either sing and/or play an instrument. :p (preferably both)
Well of course, a song sung without autotune is going to sound weird. That's because autotune is an effect, not a substitute.

Yes, it's called pop music. The songs are genuinely recorded and sometimes performed live. However, because of the intensive nature of dancing, they are often lip-synced, because dance is an element of their performance. For ballads, they tend to sing live.

You'll notice that high level musicians aren't signing. Why? Because they're too busy playing instruments. A lot of bands have a vocalist OR their lead singer plays really simple chords. Even Alison Krauss puts down her fiddle to sing.  No one rags on opera singers for not playing instruments.

Look, you don't have to like K-pop, but at least try and be fair in your criticism. Like I'd say K-pop is maybe 2-5% of my music listening. It ain't my favorite, but I get it. I don't knock it for what it is.

Like, I really don't get the people who are angry and butt-hurt that people like different kinds of music and feel the need to trash other's tastes to make themselves look and feel better. Like if you're all about the blues and that's what you're all about, great. But if you're that dude that's all about the blues and spends half his time shitting on 8 other genres of music, then there's something wrong with you.

It's a lot like the craft beer stuff. Contrived hipsterism simply to seem above it all and unique and special.

TBH, I wasn't angry or butthurt that people like something different than my tastes.
My entirely initial comment was just in jest.
It's like like, when I'm talking with friends and say X is really terrible. All I really mean is: X doesn't suit my style / tastes.

But my humor style is more of friendly ribbing / sarcastic, with a dab of dark humor. Please don't take me so seriously.
And when I use ':p' that is my cue to show I'm only playing around / not being serious.

Online Mister Tim

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Re: Best K pop songs in the last ten years
« Reply #64 on: February 08, 2019, 01:17:09 PM »

If it's done in bitterness and anger, then that's just sad. It's especially really sad if you start judging people's character based on it.


Yeah, it's a bit like judging someone for not liking something. Maybe saying something like, say, they're sad and lack taste because they don't like it. Nobody here would say anything like that, though, I'm sure!

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Best K pop songs in the last ten years
« Reply #65 on: February 08, 2019, 01:22:08 PM »
Yeah, it's a bit like judging someone for not liking something. Maybe saying something like, say, they're sad and lack taste because they don't like it. Nobody here would say anything like that, though, I'm sure!
Hey, this is just in response to someone coming in and bashing. No one went over to some other music thread and trashed their music.

If you're going to dish it out, you have to be prepared to take it in response.

Online Savant

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Re: Best K pop songs in the last ten years
« Reply #66 on: February 08, 2019, 01:26:21 PM »
Yeah, it's a bit like judging someone for not liking something. Maybe saying something like, say, they're sad and lack taste because they don't like it. Nobody here would say anything like that, though, I'm sure!
Hey, this is just in response to someone coming in and bashing. No one went over to some other music thread and trashed their music.

If you're going to dish it out, you have to be prepared to take it in response.

Then quit complaining about other folks complaints.

Online zola

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Re: Best K pop songs in the last ten years
« Reply #67 on: February 08, 2019, 01:27:31 PM »
East Indian food sux.
Kpip! - Martin 2018

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Re: Best K pop songs in the last ten years
« Reply #68 on: February 08, 2019, 01:28:02 PM »
Yeah, it's a bit like judging someone for not liking something. Maybe saying something like, say, they're sad and lack taste because they don't like it. Nobody here would say anything like that, though, I'm sure!
Hey, this is just in response to someone coming in and bashing. No one went over to some other music thread and trashed their music.

If you're going to dish it out, you have to be prepared to take it in response.

Then quit complaining about other folks complaints.

I'm just complaining because someone said that dancing to K-Pop in a club is 14 year old behavior. This both confused me and made me feel personally ATTACKED. :cry:

Online Savant

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Re: Best K pop songs in the last ten years
« Reply #69 on: February 08, 2019, 01:32:59 PM »
Yeah, it's a bit like judging someone for not liking something. Maybe saying something like, say, they're sad and lack taste because they don't like it. Nobody here would say anything like that, though, I'm sure!
Hey, this is just in response to someone coming in and bashing. No one went over to some other music thread and trashed their music.

If you're going to dish it out, you have to be prepared to take it in response.

Then quit complaining about other folks complaints.

I'm just complaining because someone said that dancing to K-Pop in a club is 14 year old behavior. This both confused me and made me feel personally ATTACKED. :cry:

In a club, not really. Hell, people get lively when "Baby Shark" comes on.

Dancing in your apartment to K-pop? Then, yeah, grow up you teenager.

Online Mister Tim

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Re: Best K pop songs in the last ten years
« Reply #70 on: February 08, 2019, 01:33:44 PM »
Yeah, it's a bit like judging someone for not liking something. Maybe saying something like, say, they're sad and lack taste because they don't like it. Nobody here would say anything like that, though, I'm sure!
Hey, this is just in response to someone coming in and bashing. No one went over to some other music thread and trashed their music.

If you're going to dish it out, you have to be prepared to take it in response.

And I'm sure the person you said it to took it stride just fine (especially since he was only joking in the first place). That doesn't make it seem any less hypocritical to call people out for judging someone because they like something, after already having judged someone because they don't like something.  :laugh:

I suppose you could just claim that you were just joking or having some "banter" or whatever you want to call it, but it absolutely looked like you were judging and trying to shame people who don't enjoy it. I honestly thought it was fair enough if that was the conclusion you had come to for whatever reason and I was going to leave it well enough alone, until you turned around and called people out for judging people. That just seemed a bit silly.  :azn:

Offline #basedcowboyshirt

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Re: Best K pop songs in the last ten years
« Reply #71 on: February 08, 2019, 01:57:16 PM »
There's a big difference between saying 'I don't like X' and 'X is bad'.

The former is just stating your opinion, which you're entitled to, whatever.

The latter is an attempt to project your opinion of something onto the actual quality of it.

"I don't like pop music." Cool. "I don't like pop music because I think it lacks artistic merit, the performers don't have enough autonomy, and it's an industry rife with shadiness, abuse, and all sorts of bad things." Also cool. It sounds like you have an informed opinion.

"Pop music is bad." No, you're probably bad.


Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Best K pop songs in the last ten years
« Reply #72 on: February 08, 2019, 01:58:25 PM »
Then quit complaining about other folks complaints.
Then quit complaining about my complaints ;D

Hey you guys are the ones that decided to come on a thread called "Best Kpop Songs of the Past 10 Years" and go on and on about how Kpop sucks.

That's the equivalent of going into a Jazz bar and going on and on about how jazz music sucks.

Someone came on here and said "are you 14?" And I just pointed out, how if it's on at the club, rather than sulk and grumble, I'm going to join in with everyone and have a good time. I also said "There's a time and a place for everything." Hey, if you go out clubbing with everyone, don't get all angry and rip on people for enjoying the music. Stay home or go to some LP bar by yourself.

It's like the people who go into a dive bar and complain people are smoking and getting drunk on cheap booze.

And I'm sure the person you said it to took it stride just fine (especially since he was only joking in the first place). That doesn't make it seem any less hypocritical to call people out for judging someone because they like something, after already having judged someone because they don't like something. 

I'm not passing judgment on their music. They're saying "This music sucks." I'm saying "You shouldn't judge someone for their music." Those aren't equivalent gripes.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 02:01:57 PM by Mr.DeMartino »

Offline #basedcowboyshirt

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Re: Best K pop songs in the last ten years
« Reply #73 on: February 08, 2019, 02:00:48 PM »
Yeah, it's a bit like judging someone for not liking something. Maybe saying something like, say, they're sad and lack taste because they don't like it. Nobody here would say anything like that, though, I'm sure!
Hey, this is just in response to someone coming in and bashing. No one went over to some other music thread and trashed their music.

If you're going to dish it out, you have to be prepared to take it in response.

Then quit complaining about other folks complaints.

I'm just complaining because someone said that dancing to K-Pop in a club is 14 year old behavior. This both confused me and made me feel personally ATTACKED. :cry:

In a club, not really. Hell, people get lively when "Baby Shark" comes on.

Dancing in your apartment to K-pop? Then, yeah, grow up you teenager.

Imagine literally criticizing what people dance to in their apartment.

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Best K pop songs in the last ten years
« Reply #74 on: February 08, 2019, 02:10:56 PM »
Best Indian Restaurant in Seoul?

"Indian food sucks. How can anyone eat that trash? What are you 14?"
"Well it may not be favorite, but if everyone is going out for Indian, I can get down with some curry and some naan and have a good time. Every cuisine has its time and place."
"Stop telling me what to eat!!!"

Like...seriously...

"Indian food sucks because unlike Korean food where there's meat, most Indian food is vegetarian. Also, they don't use beef."
"Well, there IS vegetarian Indian food, but there's also non-vegetarian Indian food. In fact, a simple search on youtube shows this. And yes they don't use beef, they just emphasize different ingredients. Does your food have paneer? No? Does that make it crap?"
"Well it doesn't suck, but it's throwaway food."
"Well so is kimbap. Nothing wrong with that. Every cuisine has its cheap stuff and trends."
"I don't know how you can classify some of it as food, because so many meals have no meat."
"I think you are coming from a narrow-minded point of view and are using arbitrary criteria to justify your view."
"When did it become so bad simply to not like something. You're judging me. Stop complaining about my complaining."

That's pretty much what has gone on here.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 02:14:07 PM by Mr.DeMartino »

Online Mister Tim

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Re: Best K pop songs in the last ten years
« Reply #75 on: February 08, 2019, 02:23:49 PM »

I'm not passing judgment on their music. They're saying "This music sucks." I'm saying "You shouldn't judge someone for their music." Those aren't equivalent gripes.

I'm not saying you were passing judgement on their music itself (which is what "This music sucks" is doing), I'm saying you're passing judgement on them for their taste in music (not liking K-Pop).  You weren't saying "You shouldn't judge someone for their taste in music" in response to "This music sucks," you were saying it in response to "Are you 14?". The former is about the music itself, the latter is about the listener.

Let's take another look at something you said earlier:

It's like food. Now you don't have to be about the Korean/Ethiopian/Vietnamese/Moroccan food all the time, but if you can't ever get down with it? Well that's just sad and ironically, it suggests the lack of taste is with YOU, not the people who enjoy it.

Here, you're equating taste in food with their taste in music. Fair enough, they're both subjective things, so it's a valid comparison. You're saying that if they don't like something, then it suggests a lack of taste and is sad. Also fair enough, if I'm honest. You're entitled to that opinion. However, that is *absolutely* judging someone based on their tastes in something.  It's taking the step from criticizing the thing they like/don't like to criticizing them for liking/not liking it.

You can't really go from making a judgement about someone based on their tastes, to telling people not to judge someone based on their tastes. Again, fair play if you want to argue the merits of whatever kind of music or the implications that might or might not have about a person. I just think the approach you took for a sec there was perhaps not particularly well thought out, and seemed a bit hypocritical.

Online Mister Tim

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Re: Best K pop songs in the last ten years
« Reply #76 on: February 08, 2019, 02:30:38 PM »
There's a big difference between saying 'I don't like X' and 'X is bad'.

The former is just stating your opinion, which you're entitled to, whatever.

The latter is an attempt to project your opinion of something onto the actual quality of it.


I honestly don't think that's true. It's weird that this came up today, because I was actually just thinking about this and having a conversation about it on a music chatroom yesterday.

I think it should just be taken as a given that when somebody makes a statement about something subjective, they're just stating an opinion. Even if they don't directly state that it's just their opinion or just what they think, I think it's pretty safe to assume that that's implied. I also think that the sooner everyone accepts that, the sooner the internet can become a more civil place  :laugh:.

I won't deny that there are a$$holes out there who are just trying to get a rise out of people. However, I tend to think that, generally speaking, "X is bad" and "I don't like X" are equivalent statements, and the only intended message for both is that the speaker has a negative opinion of X.

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Re: Best K pop songs in the last ten years
« Reply #77 on: February 08, 2019, 02:40:41 PM »
There's a big difference between saying 'I don't like X' and 'X is bad'.

The former is just stating your opinion, which you're entitled to, whatever.

The latter is an attempt to project your opinion of something onto the actual quality of it.


I honestly don't think that's true. It's weird that this came up today, because I was actually just thinking about this and having a conversation about it on a music chatroom yesterday.

I think it should just be taken as a given that when somebody makes a statement about something subjective, they're just stating an opinion. Even if they don't directly state that it's just their opinion or just what they think, I think it's pretty safe to assume that that's implied. I also think that the sooner everyone accepts that, the sooner the internet can become a more civil place  :laugh:.

I won't deny that there are a$$holes out there who are just trying to get a rise out of people. However, I tend to think that, generally speaking, "X is bad" and "I don't like X" are equivalent statements, and the only intended message for both is that the speaker has a negative opinion of X.

I agree.  The argument that they're different in casual conversation makes no sense.  Unless you're having a conversation with Dwight Schrute, they mean exactly the same thing.

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Best K pop songs in the last ten years
« Reply #78 on: February 08, 2019, 02:44:36 PM »

I'm not passing judgment on their music. They're saying "This music sucks." I'm saying "You shouldn't judge someone for their music." Those aren't equivalent gripes.

I'm not saying you were passing judgement on their music itself (which is what "This music sucks" is doing), I'm saying you're passing judgement on them for their taste in music (not liking K-Pop).  You weren't saying "You shouldn't judge someone for their taste in music" in response to "This music sucks," you were saying it in response to "Are you 14?". The former is about the music itself, the latter is about the listener.

Let's take another look at something you said earlier:

It's like food. Now you don't have to be about the Korean/Ethiopian/Vietnamese/Moroccan food all the time, but if you can't ever get down with it? Well that's just sad and ironically, it suggests the lack of taste is with YOU, not the people who enjoy it.

Here, you're equating taste in food with their taste in music. Fair enough, they're both subjective things, so it's a valid comparison. You're saying that if they don't like something, then it suggests a lack of taste and is sad. Also fair enough, if I'm honest. You're entitled to that opinion. However, that is *absolutely* judging someone based on their tastes in something.  It's taking the step from criticizing the thing they like/don't like to criticizing them for liking/not liking it.

You can't really go from making a judgement about someone based on their tastes, to telling people not to judge someone based on their tastes. Again, fair play if you want to argue the merits of whatever kind of music or the implications that might or might not have about a person. I just think the approach you took for a sec there was perhaps not particularly well thought out, and seemed a bit hypocritical.
It's not about the food specifically. It's about the mindset and willingness to try new things and accept them for what they are and not use your preconceived notions to judge them. And of course, if someone is allergic to cilantro or curry or chili or whatever, that's a little different.

It was also an attempt to show how actually it wasn't the Kpop people who were being closed minded and scared to step out of the box, it was them. I don't think you're a worse person for sticking with tater tots and hot dogs, but if you're going to rip on people for enjoying sushi and curried goat and shwarma, AND call them superficial and immature, yeah some pushback is warranted I think.

So yes, someone said something about being 14, and using the food analogy, I tried to show how they were the ones who were engaging in the equivalent of a 14-year olds food choices. It wasn't a perfect analogy and you highlighted its flaws in logic, so that's fair.

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Re: Best K pop songs in the last ten years
« Reply #79 on: February 08, 2019, 02:44:55 PM »
There's a big difference between saying 'I don't like X' and 'X is bad'.

The former is just stating your opinion, which you're entitled to, whatever.

The latter is an attempt to project your opinion of something onto the actual quality of it.


I honestly don't think that's true. It's weird that this came up today, because I was actually just thinking about this and having a conversation about it on a music chatroom yesterday.

I think it should just be taken as a given that when somebody makes a statement about something subjective, they're just stating an opinion. Even if they don't directly state that it's just their opinion or just what they think, I think it's pretty safe to assume that that's implied. I also think that the sooner everyone accepts that, the sooner the internet can become a more civil place  :laugh:.

I won't deny that there are a$$holes out there who are just trying to get a rise out of people. However, I tend to think that, generally speaking, "X is bad" and "I don't like X" are equivalent statements, and the only intended message for both is that the speaker has a negative opinion of X.

No-one here is quite saying that they would rather be waterboarded whilst being bombarded by Limp Bizkit instead of listening to the latest song by Twice.

But some people...