March 27, 2019, 08:41:11 AM


Author Topic: Increased Vacation Days  (Read 9648 times)

Online Mister Tim

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Re: Increased Vacation Days
« Reply #40 on: December 27, 2018, 02:45:43 PM »
I suddenly thought about this...

The contract I signed a year ago gives me five extra days if I renew that contract (which I'm now doing).  The new contract I'm going to sign in 2019 is going to give me 26 days.

So do I get 31 days vacation for 2019/2020?  What happens to the five days renewal bonus we get for renewing our 2018/2019 contracts?

No. That clause of the contract applied to people who were renewing for that period. If they were, then they would be given five extra days, generally to be taken within six months of signing the contract. If it was your first time signing a contract, that didn't apply to you, and has no bearing on future contracts you may or may not sign.

Online daelight

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Re: Increased Vacation Days
« Reply #41 on: December 27, 2018, 02:47:30 PM »
Weekends don't count as paid vacation days.

In JLP they are counted if you are not working on the Friday and Monday that sandwiches the weekend.

Online Piggydee

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Re: Increased Vacation Days
« Reply #42 on: December 27, 2018, 02:50:51 PM »
Well I don't work for Daegu and that's never been my case.  If the principal made a  school holiday he would never tell me to apply that as one of my vacation days.  He'd just give everybody the extra day off.  This year he did that with the Chuseok Holiday.  He randomly gave us the Friday before Chuseok off when the rest of the following week off as well.  I didn't have to use a vacation day for that random Friday.

That's what people are talking about here. In the past, the school could apparently choose whether or not you have to use a vacation day for those days, or even require you to come in and deskwarm. The new rules seem to be that the school doesn't have a choice whether or not you have to take a vacation day. Your choices will be 1) take a vacation day and have the day off, or 2) don't take a vacation day & go deskwarm. It doesn't matter whether that's "never been the case," because the rules have changed.

Okay I think my last co-teacher, (before the one I had now) gave me that option.  I usually just came in and desk warmed because I was not about to sacrifice a vacation day for some random day off in September.  Either way I wasn't really bothered by it.  I'd only be bothered if I was forced to use a vacation day for some random day in the year.  Forget that!   

Online Mister Tim

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Re: Increased Vacation Days
« Reply #43 on: December 27, 2018, 02:54:32 PM »

Okay I think my last co-teacher, (before the one I had now) gave me that option.  I usually just came in and desk warmed because I was not about to sacrifice a vacation day for some random day off in September.  Either way I wasn't really bothered by it.  I'd only be bothered if I was forced to use a vacation day for some random day in the year.  Forget that!

Yeah, I'll definitely be taking the deskwarming option. I suspect there are going to be some schools that are annoyed by this change, because it's going to force them to have someone come in on holidays, open the school, turn on the power etc, then close it again at the end of the day. All because the NET can't just stay home without using a vacation day anymore.

Online Mister Tim

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Re: Increased Vacation Days
« Reply #44 on: December 27, 2018, 02:57:00 PM »
...Or it's entirely possible you'll have a "Just stay home anyway," *wink wink, nudge nudge*, type of CoTeacher who will let you stay home without putting into NEIS that you did.

If anyone here does have a CoT like that, for the love of all that is holy, keep it to yourself. Don't ruin it for everyone by bragging about it and causing a crackdown.  :laugh:

Online alexisalex

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Re: Increased Vacation Days
« Reply #45 on: December 27, 2018, 03:00:57 PM »
I suddenly thought about this...

The contract I signed a year ago gives me five extra days if I renew that contract (which I'm now doing).  The new contract I'm going to sign in 2019 is going to give me 26 days.

So do I get 31 days vacation for 2019/2020?  What happens to the five days renewal bonus we get for renewing our 2018/2019 contracts?

No. That clause of the contract applied to people who were renewing for that period. If they were, then they would be given five extra days, generally to be taken within six months of signing the contract. If it was your first time signing a contract, that didn't apply to you, and has no bearing on future contracts you may or may not sign.

I thought it always works like this:

Sign contract A.  Contract A says that if you renew Contract A in a year's time you will receive five extra vacation days during the period of Contract B.  So that's why I think that next year (period March 2019 to March 2020), those five days should be honoured because they were promised when I signed the contract (March 2018 to March 2019).

That's why during my first contract with EPIK I had 18 days but every contract since I've had 18 + 5.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 03:04:13 PM by alexisalex »

Online tanis62458

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Re: Increased Vacation Days
« Reply #46 on: December 27, 2018, 03:08:41 PM »
is this only going to apply to public/government schools or will private institutions also get the extra days?

Online Mister Tim

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Re: Increased Vacation Days
« Reply #47 on: December 27, 2018, 03:12:06 PM »
I suddenly thought about this...

The contract I signed a year ago gives me five extra days if I renew that contract (which I'm now doing).  The new contract I'm going to sign in 2019 is going to give me 26 days.

So do I get 31 days vacation for 2019/2020?  What happens to the five days renewal bonus we get for renewing our 2018/2019 contracts?

No. That clause of the contract applied to people who were renewing for that period. If they were, then they would be given five extra days, generally to be taken within six months of signing the contract. If it was your first time signing a contract, that didn't apply to you, and has no bearing on future contracts you may or may not sign.

I thought it always works like this:

Sign contract A.  Contract A says that if you renew Contract A in a year's time you will receive five extra vacation days during the period of Contract B.  So that's why I think that next year (period March 2019 to March 2020), those five days should be honoured because they were promised when I signed the contract (March 2018 to March 2019).

That's why during my first contract with EPIK I had 18 days but every contract since I've had 18 + 5.

You know, looking over one of my old contracts now, it seems like your interpretation is the more accurate one. Mine says:

 "In the case of renewal of this contract* pursuant to the foregoing clause, the Employee shall be given five working days paid leave which shall take place during the nearest school vacation of the renewal contract."

(*emphasis mine)

So yeah, it kinda seems like we should be given an extra five days on top of whatever standard vacation days the new contract states. If we aren't given those days, wouldn't it be breach of contract?

And here I was, fully expecting to read my contract and find the clause to show you how you're wrong.  :laugh:

Online Piggydee

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Re: Increased Vacation Days
« Reply #48 on: December 27, 2018, 03:13:02 PM »
is this only going to apply to public/government schools or will private institutions also get the extra days?

LOL Ummm This is just public school we are talking about.   

Online tylerthegloob

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Re: Increased Vacation Days
« Reply #49 on: December 27, 2018, 03:17:44 PM »

So yeah, it kinda seems like we should be given an extra five days on top of whatever standard vacation days the new contract states. If we aren't given those days, wouldn't it be breach of contract?

And here I was, fully expecting to read my contract and find the clause to show you how you're wrong.  :laugh:

This is exactly what I wanted to hear (read?). I can feel the salt receding and the hope rising. 31 days vacation would be mossssst excellent my dudes.

Online alexisalex

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Re: Increased Vacation Days
« Reply #50 on: December 27, 2018, 03:24:43 PM »

So yeah, it kinda seems like we should be given an extra five days on top of whatever standard vacation days the new contract states. If we aren't given those days, wouldn't it be breach of contract?

And here I was, fully expecting to read my contract and find the clause to show you how you're wrong.  :laugh:

This is exactly what I wanted to hear (read?). I can feel the salt receding and the hope rising. 31 days vacation would be mossssst excellent my dudes.

Lol same!  It suddenly hit me haha.  Three weeks in summer, three weeks in winter with a day to spare  8)

Offline Kayos

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Re: Increased Vacation Days
« Reply #51 on: December 27, 2018, 03:25:05 PM »
Wait, so EPIK contracts have been amended to 26 days total vacation per year?

I'm with JLP and I'm pretty sure we've always gotten 8 days in summer and 24 days in winter? Sounds like EPIK's been screwing you guys

I'm with JLP too, and worked with EPIK in the past.
JLP's includes weekends and red days during your vacation time though. EPIK's didn't (from what I remember; or my school at the time didn't care if I worked around it).
They end up being roughly the same, with JLP getting a couple days extra, but with EPIKs extra, it'll be the same, or JLP will be a day behind.

Offline Kayos

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Re: Increased Vacation Days
« Reply #52 on: December 27, 2018, 03:26:59 PM »
For the Daegu MOE they were told that school holidays would be counted as vacation days. So if your school has three school holidays during the year, then you lose three paid vacation days. Before it was up to the discretion of the principal or vice principal to allow NETs to take those days off without penalty, but with the updated contracts we lose that clause. My school typically has three school holidays, so it looks like I won't be getting any extra vacation days if my POE's contract is the same as the Feb contract in August.

I'm not sure about that.  I read my contract and it didn't say it would be counting public holidays or school holidays as part of our paid leave.  Because unlike hakwons, my school has never combined red days and counted them towards my vacation (ex. three red days off for Lunar New Year + 6 of your contact vacation days= equals 9 days)  That's never been my case.  For me this year I used 7 days for my summer vacation in August and this year I will use my remaining 13 days for February.  Lunar New Year is Feb. 4-6.  Added on to the 13 remaining days I have left I will have 16 paid days of vacation!  Which means I need to be back to my school Feb. 25th.  If those Lunar New Year days would be counted as my vacation then that means I'd have to return to school Feb. 19th.  SO GLAD I DON'T WORK AT HAKWON ANYMORE, because they are the ones to pull that mess.  Do I don't know what anyone is saying as far as the school using public holidays or school holidays as paid holidays.

JLP includes holidays and weekends too, but usually offered a few extra days vacation than EPIK (24 winter, 8 summer)

Online tanis62458

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Re: Increased Vacation Days
« Reply #53 on: December 27, 2018, 03:35:30 PM »
is this only going to apply to public/government schools or will private institutions also get the extra days?

LOL Ummm This is just public school we are talking about.

cool so lol.  anway, so will this also apply to private institutions as well.  when amendments are made to the klsl aren't the usually covered for all of those employed in korea?  seeing as how those laws will supersede any contracts written by private institutions.  for example, no penalty clauses in contracts etc.

Offline lelsasser

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Re: Increased Vacation Days
« Reply #54 on: December 27, 2018, 03:37:39 PM »
GEPIK currently has 21 days and 5 day with a renewal bonus. So GEPIK doesn't gain too much, and if they don't those 'sandwich'/discretionary holidays, it would actually be at a loss for us.

Offline belocean11

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Re: Increased Vacation Days
« Reply #55 on: December 27, 2018, 04:04:55 PM »
I suddenly thought about this...

The contract I signed a year ago gives me five extra days if I renew that contract (which I'm now doing).  The new contract I'm going to sign in 2019 is going to give me 26 days.

So do I get 31 days vacation for 2019/2020?  What happens to the five days renewal bonus we get for renewing our 2018/2019 contracts?

No. That clause of the contract applied to people who were renewing for that period. If they were, then they would be given five extra days, generally to be taken within six months of signing the contract. If it was your first time signing a contract, that didn't apply to you, and has no bearing on future contracts you may or may not sign.

I thought it always works like this:

Sign contract A.  Contract A says that if you renew Contract A in a year's time you will receive five extra vacation days during the period of Contract B.  So that's why I think that next year (period March 2019 to March 2020), those five days should be honoured because they were promised when I signed the contract (March 2018 to March 2019).

That's why during my first contract with EPIK I had 18 days but every contract since I've had 18 + 5.

You know, looking over one of my old contracts now, it seems like your interpretation is the more accurate one. Mine says:

 "In the case of renewal of this contract* pursuant to the foregoing clause, the Employee shall be given five working days paid leave which shall take place during the nearest school vacation of the renewal contract."

(*emphasis mine)

So yeah, it kinda seems like we should be given an extra five days on top of whatever standard vacation days the new contract states. If we aren't given those days, wouldn't it be breach of contract?

And here I was, fully expecting to read my contract and find the clause to show you how you're wrong.  :laugh:


According to the Daegu renewal, they get 26 + the 5 renewal days for the 2018 (current) contract. The renewal bonus days clause has been removed from the 2019 contract. So if the other POE and MOE contracts are the same, only this year will we get 31 vacation days after that we will go back to 26 days.

Offline Sasstiel

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Re: Increased Vacation Days
« Reply #56 on: December 27, 2018, 07:53:21 PM »
Letter from DMOE to all teachers.

Not sure where they’re getting their math, but this feels like a huge go f yourself to teachers who’ve worked for several years and are just now leaving-  our renewal counted for less time off than 1st year teachers are getting. There are a lot of seriously pissed off teachers in Daegu right now....

“Good afternoon,

This email intends to provide some explanation about the recent change in the Labor Standards Act of the Korean Labor Law, which directly affected some of our NETs, namely whose 1st contract is finishing this upcoming spring or fall. The schools with the affected NETs have been provided with the explanation and directions on how the change is, should be, incorporated to their NETs. Only the 1st year NETs are affected by the change because the specific change in Labor Standards Act incorporated the change's purpose to improve benefits for short-term employees. Information found below includes the purpose of the change in the Labor Standards Act and how it's related to our NETs. We hope you find the information helpful.

We'd like to begin by explaining what the labor law required employers to provide, in terms of paid leave days, before the change. Before the change, an employee who completes her 12-month employment would be eligible for paid leave days of 15 days. But because she gains this 15 days of paid leave upon completing the full year, she would be able to use it during the 2nd year of employment. In the case she needs to use some days off during her 1st year, she would have been using them "in advance" of the 15 that she'd be gaining upon completing the full year. If this same employee maintained the employment for 2 years, she would have a total of 30 days, 15 days for each year of employment, to be used during her 1st and 2nd year of employment. You can see that in this system, there is not much compensation in terms of paid leave for employees with a short-term contract, especially those whose contract does not last a full year. This is why the Ministry of Labor recently pursued a change in the law for paid leave for employees with short-term employment. Before the change, the law did not conflict with the policies found in the current EPIK-DMOE contract as the contract provides 18 paid leave days per year which exceeds the 15 required by the law.

After the change, an employee with a 12-month contract are eligible for an additional 11 days of paid leave on top of the 15 days that existed previously. So if an employee works for an employer for 1 year only and quits, she would be eligible for 26 days, 15+11, of paid leave. This is why, the NETs who are finishing their 1st year, are being offered an additional 8 paid leave days to fulfill the minimum of 26 paid leave days.(18+8=26) Usually, a change in the contract will be applied only in the case where the change was applied and found in the contract the NET actually signed. However, this change occurred in the very basic labor law, and all employers have the obligation to have it applied to all those applicable right away.

The change is not applicable for teachers who are finishing their second (or more years of) contract because the number of paid leave days provided under the current contract meets the law's new requirement. The new law requires that 26 days of paid leave is provided for Year 1, and 15 days for Year 2(26+15=41). Under the current EPIK-DMOE contract, our NETs receive 18 paid leave days for Year 1, 5 renewal vacation days for renewing, and 18 paid leave days for Year 2 (18+5+18=41).

Even though some of you may be disappointed on not being provided with additional paid leave days as some others are, the change affects NETs who stay with the DMOE for 1 year only. The 16 POEs with NET program and EPIK had a long discussion for weeks on the matter, how it should be incorporated into the contract. As the change in the contract is occurring as a direct result of the change in the labor law, intended to improve benefits for short-term employees, it was applied to NETs on their 1st contract only.

I hope this email helps you understand the situation better. Also, you may find some helpful information about finishing your time in Korea on the DMOE-NET information page.


Best regards,
DMOE Coordinators
--
Program Coordinator”
I'm funnier in Enochian.

Offline pkjh

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Re: Increased Vacation Days
« Reply #57 on: December 27, 2018, 11:16:00 PM »
For the Daegu MOE they were told that school holidays would be counted as vacation days. So if your school has three school holidays during the year, then you lose three paid vacation days. Before it was up to the discretion of the principal or vice principal to allow NETs to take those days off without penalty, but with the updated contracts we lose that clause. My school typically has three school holidays, so it looks like I won't be getting any extra vacation days if my POE's contract is the same as the Feb contract in August.

Heaven forbid they could actually just do something to be nice instead of being @holes.
Wouldn't Article 7.2 be a work around to this issue?
something about... Work Hours maybe be adjusted by the Employer as he/she deems appropriate...

Also, those discretionary days, aren't usually logged in the system anyways since everyone gets it off, and officially scheduled at the beginning of the year. It's the half days off you get on test days that may pose an issue.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 11:26:24 PM by pkjh »

Online Piggydee

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Re: Increased Vacation Days
« Reply #58 on: December 28, 2018, 07:16:00 AM »
I didn't understand any of that above posted letter.  What so only first year teachers get the 26 days???

Online Mister Tim

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Re: Increased Vacation Days
« Reply #59 on: December 28, 2018, 07:34:42 AM »
Welp, word about the "choose between deskwarming or using a vacation day" thing must've already been disseminated to school administrators. I had previously been told I get a 4 day weekend for New Years, but was just told that I know have to choose to either come in or use one of my vacation days. I've been at this school for three and a half years now, and I've never had to make that choice, so I assume this new regulation has prompted it. I wasn't expecting that change until next school/contract year, but I suppose no sh!tty surprise is actually surprising anymore.

I know, those who already had to come in are thinking "Boo-f*cking-hoo," but it sucks to be told one thing, look forward to it, and have it taken away at the last minute.

Luckily I'm boring and hadn't made any plans for the weekend, I guess.