December 12, 2018, 01:52:25 PM


Author Topic: So she fired me.....  (Read 2179 times)

Offline Imeunha

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So she fired me.....
« on: December 06, 2018, 10:53:09 PM »
Oh boy. 

For more details on this saga, my post history should provide.

So, backstory.  My hagwon just opened this January.  They had no students and no money. The long short of it: we made an arrangement where they do not provide me with housing close to the hagwon, but since we (my bosses and I) live in the same city and commute (30 minutes by car), they would drive me to and from work.  At first I was hesitant, but I was coming off another bad situation and was kind of desperate (perhaps a story for another time). 

Over the last 9ish months, there have been instances when they couldn't take me, so they would ask my bf to drive me, or I would take the bus and subway (the bus comes once an hour and only goes to a subway station where I have to take a subway and then walk from the station to my house. Overall this takes 1.5 hours...yeah).  Once during the summer, I had to commute to work for two weeks in this fashion because they had a special summer class in the mornings and as such could not take me in.  No problem.  Every time I found my way. 

Now it's getting cold.  I have to walk to the bus stop (10 minutes) wait for the bus (~10 minutes) ride the bus, walk to the station and wait on the subway (varies really. Sometimes 20 minutes?) And then ride the subway and walk home (20minutes). 

For the last month they have sporadically told me they can't take me. My female boss goes home at 845, she couuuulddd take me but um... She's kind of lazy....anyway usually the man drives me anyway.  This week I have had to go home by way of public transport and to work once in the morning.  So I was a little miffed.  I don't know the legality of not offering me housing or a stipend, but we had a deal.  For me to work in the city their hagwon is in, they would take me.  I've been very patient with circumstances...

Anyway I brought up the situation with my boss. Serious talk, but not accusatory or angry or rude.  Just, it's very difficult for me to commute and we did have a deal so I would like them to try to honor it a bit better.  Her demanor was something aki
to "why are you making trouble for me?  Why don't you understand my business?  I don't have time to honor stupid deals I made with you." Anyway, she was annoyed but "promised" to uphold the deal "through the end of February" (the end of my contract). 

The results have determined.......that was a lie!

This conversation happened yesterday.  Cue today after classes.  I get called into her office.

It is "impossible for us to continue working together."  I will only be working with them through the end of January. 

Did you catch that?  11 month firing.

That's kind of illegal, I tell her.  (I didn't mention, but she has never even given me a written notice or anything.) Will you be giving me a letter of release?  Will you pay me my severance?

"I will be watching you for the next two months.  If you don't work hard, I will fire you right away and not give you a letter of release."

The next month and a half should be fun. 

Offline williamwhite

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Re: So she fired me.....
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2018, 05:35:25 AM »
In this type of situation, there is only one question.  What would Tyler Durden do?

Offline Imeunha

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Re: So she fired me.....
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2018, 06:39:51 AM »
In this type of situation, there is only one question.  What would Tyler Durden do?

I'm pretty sure this is a reference to Fight Club, but I'm not sure what it means.

Offline taeyang

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Re: So she fired me.....
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2018, 06:44:54 AM »
if you can afford to leave korea, i would. you can pick up a new job in february/march.

your situation does not sound ideal though. i hope it works out!
use google to search the site

site:waygook.org XXXX

replace 'XXXX' with your search term

Online sligo

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Re: So she fired me.....
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2018, 06:53:01 AM »
Record every conversation you have with her, then present to the labor board.  You have every right to record any conversation you are part of, and DO NOT have to tell her.  Let her hang herself.....so to speak.

Online Piggydee

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Re: So she fired me.....
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2018, 07:32:06 AM »
Record every conversation you have with her, then present to the labor board.  You have every right to record any conversation you are part of, and DO NOT have to tell her.  Let her hang herself.....so to speak.

Why you didn't quit when we told you to is beyond me, however yes you have a case with the Labor Board.  Quit now and fight them with the board.  Good luck

Offline waygo0k

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Re: So she fired me.....
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2018, 07:33:14 AM »
There is no legal requirement for her to provide you with housing or a stipend...the only legal requirement is that you have a housing contract when registering for an E-2. I hope you used the lack of housing/stipend to negotiate a higher salary.

If not, I hate to say it, but she played you this whole time. You've been saving her 300-500k per month in expenses for the past year, and now she's taking your naivety for granted.

Even if she 'fires' you, don't stop going to work. Turn up and continue your routine as usual. The ball is in your court.

Online thunderlips

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Re: So she fired me.....
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2018, 07:55:11 AM »
Record every conversation you have with her, then present to the labor board.  You have every right to record any conversation you are part of, and DO NOT have to tell her.  Let her hang herself.....so to speak.

Why you didn't quit when we told you to is beyond me, however yes you have a case with the Labor Board.  Quit now and fight them with the board.  Good luck

No don't quit! You will lose your leverage. If they try to do an 11 month firing you have a pretty solid case.

Online sligo

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Re: So she fired me.....
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2018, 08:00:11 AM »
Record every conversation you have with her, then present to the labor board.  You have every right to record any conversation you are part of, and DO NOT have to tell her.  Let her hang herself.....so to speak.

Why you didn't quit when we told you to is beyond me, however yes you have a case with the Labor Board. Quit now and fight them with the board.  Good luck

This is possibly the worst advice you can receive.  If you quit, that will be used against you.  Your boss will use it for justification of termination.  Report her, then do everything by the book, so you have a record of your actions.  Record every conversation with her, so you have evidence of what you are told.  If she cannot prove there are serious issues with you, then she cannot get away with the firing.  Download a voice recorder on your phone, and sit on the desk and let it record as you talk to her.

Online theman3285

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Re: So she fired me.....
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2018, 09:04:32 AM »
Download a voice recorder on your phone, and sit on the desk and let it record as you talk to her.
Absolutely this is the way to go. But do it discreetly. You don't want her mitigating her demeanor because she knows she's being recorded. Let her go full bitch mode.

Also, are you the girl with the Korean boyfriend who sided with your bosses? If so, I'd like to know his stance on the matter. No doubt he'll elucidate the fact that 11th month dismissals are a part of Korean culture and you'd best get used to it ;D

Online SuperDoodle23

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Re: So she fired me.....
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2018, 09:19:49 AM »
For the love of God don't quit when you are on your 11th month. Follow the law to the letter and get out of there as soon as you can.

OP, no disrespect but you sound like a doormat. Your boss has no respect for you because you have tolerated a lot of nonsense that most people in your position would not have tolerated. Your boss has picked up on this and is going to push you and push you because you haven't set any strong boundaries in the past. I'm gonna be even more blunt. If your boyfriend has sided with your boss in the past ( and it sounds like he has ) then he is probably also accustomed to being used as a doormat. The only difference is that he is Korean and is probably used to being crapped on by his superiors. Do better for yourself next go around. I've been in your situation too. You can't be too nice to certain kinds of people. They see that as a weakness. Your time for sticking up for yourself was at the beginning of the contract though. Now suddenly deciding to grow a spine and set boundaries is going to give your boss too much leverage. Follow the law, smile nod and proceed, and then get out. There is no need to devise any elaborate ways to fight her now. The time to fight her was the FIRST time she threw nonsense at you. Good luck!

Online theman3285

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Re: So she fired me.....
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2018, 09:24:00 AM »
Your time for sticking up for yourself was at the beginning of the contract though. Now suddenly deciding to grow a spine and set boundaries is going to give your boss too much leverage. Follow the law, smile nod and proceed, and then get out. There is no need to devise any elaborate ways to fight her now. The time to fight her was the FIRST time she threw nonsense at you. Good luck!
+1

Offline KoreaBoo

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Re: So she fired me.....
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2018, 09:52:08 AM »
If she has given you full notice, then she may have legally covered her butt.

The famous 11th month firings were for cases in the past where an employer would let someone go a day or a week before the completion of their contract.  This was usually done without notice and 'for cause'.

Your employer is obligated to give you 30 days notice.  You are currently in your 9th month.  They have provided you with more than the legal amount of notice required to find another employer.

Additionally, there is no 'magic' rule where it becomes illegal to fire or let someone go after they have been with you 7, 8 or 9 months into your contract.  Your employer can let you go for nearly any reason AS LONG AS they provide you with enough notice.

Now there are those here who will tell you to go call the SGC or 'labour board' (which doesn't exist here) and 'fight it'.
Yes, there are processes in play where you can legally challenge the administration of letting you go.  However you have been fired in your 9th month, not 11th.

Secondly, you most likely do not have the resources required to fight this.  Your boss can let you go, but is under no legal obligation to provide you a LOR to get a new job.  Hence when they report you have left, you must leave the country and start the visa application process all over again at a substantial expense.  During this time, you cannot work here and if you leave the country, your legal petitions for which you cannot really afford to do are stopped.

So unless you are able to find a means to remain in country while not being able to work while spending nearly a year trying to keep a job or some small amount of benefit that you feel you may have coming to you is greater than the cost of you fighting...you may find yourself in the losing end.

Any reference to your past employer will be shot.  Your being fired or not completing your contract will be on your file.  You may have issues with getting the new D-10 points visa.

All this while you're burning through cash in a system that is designed for its citizens & permanent residents, not temporary employees.

So if someone here can tell me again what the employer has done illegally here again?  He gave you nearly 2 months notice that you are being let go 9 months in.  In reality, this happens everywhere.  There is no law that states he cannot fire you because you are entitled to your benefits.  If he gave you notice at 10.5 months in...then you may have a case...but not at 9.

I don't see any legal victory here on your part. 

Additionally, it seems here that many posters in the past have warned you about your past decisions, how they may cause further financial or employment problems for you.  You seemed more than happy to disregard the advice given to you and are now asking again the same people you chose to ignore for help.

Not exactly a good start.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 09:56:39 AM by KoreaBoo »

Offline Imeunha

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Re: So she fired me.....
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2018, 09:52:35 AM »
When it comes to 11 month firings, immi told me I would have to do a visa run in February to get a brand new visa. I have a question.  My contract ends in February, but my visa expires April 2nd.  If I get fired in January, immi says I can do a visa run February 1.  But immi has told me all kinds of things in the past.  Is it true?  Or do I have to wait until the end of my contract? Or do I have to wait til the end of my visa?

Yeah I'm the one with the boyfriend, and you're right, he's also a doormat and used to it.  At his job he works from 830 am til 9pm, and hasn't had a day off in 3 weeks.  His boss too says he either does all of the overtime or he is fired.  So when I have issues, he tells me Korea is hell and will never change.

Offline KoreaBoo

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Re: So she fired me.....
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2018, 09:58:13 AM »
When it comes to 11 month firings, immi told me I would have to do a visa run in February to get a brand new visa. I have a question.  My contract ends in February, but my visa expires April 2nd.  If I get fired in January, immi says I can do a visa run February 1.  But immi has told me all kinds of things in the past.  Is it true?  Or do I have to wait until the end of my contract? Or do I have to wait til the end of my visa?

Yeah I'm the one with the boyfriend, and you're right, he's also a doormat and used to it.  At his job he works from 830 am til 9pm, and hasn't had a day off in 3 weeks.  His boss too says he either does all of the overtime or he is fired.  So when I have issues, he tells me Korea is hell and will never change.

The date on your ARC is the one that matters.  The contract is secondary.  Your employment contract will not overrule any dates written on your card.  As far as immi is concerned, that is the only date that is official.

Offline Imeunha

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Re: So she fired me.....
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2018, 10:13:21 AM »

Your employer is obligated to give you 30 days notice.  You are currently in your 9th month.  They have provided you with more than the legal amount of notice required to find another employer.

Additionally, there is no 'magic' rule where it becomes illegal to fire or let someone go after they have been with you 7, 8 or 9 months into your contract.  Your employer can let you go for nearly any reason AS LONG AS they provide you with enough notice.

Now there are those here who will tell you to go call the SGC or 'labour board' (which doesn't exist here) and 'fight it'.
Yes, there are processes in play where you can legally challenge the administration of letting you go.  However you have been fired in your 9th month, not 11th.

Any reference to your past employer will be shot.  Your being fired or not completing your contract will be on your file.  You may have issues with getting the new D-10 points visa.

There is no law that states he cannot fire you because you are entitled to your benefits.  If he gave you notice at 10.5 months in...then you may have a case...but not at 9.

Additionally, it seems here that many posters in the past have warned you about your past decisions, how they may cause further financial or employment problems for you.  You seemed more than happy to disregard the advice given to you and are now asking again the same people you chose to ignore for help.

Not exactly a good start.

I appreciate your candor.  Yeah, I've been a moron.  Pretty much everyone told me to quit this job asap, but I didn't want to fail.  I wanted to finish a contract, have that on my resume, do my job well, fix any problems my boss had with me.  And I really really tried.  I fixed everything she had an issue with me on. Really I tried so hard.  But you guys were also right when you said once Korean people (most all people?) have an impression of you, you can't change it. And maybe don't place any trust in people who only see you as a cash cow.

Regarding the rest of your post, the fact that I was fired would forever make it difficult for me to find a job or get a new visa?  Is that only if I try to fight it, or is it just a permanent feature of my visa status?  Do people survive that?

Offline Imeunha

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Re: So she fired me.....
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2018, 10:14:50 AM »

The date on your ARC is the one that matters.  The contract is secondary.  Your employment contract will not overrule any dates written on your card.  As far as immi is concerned, that is the only date that is official.

So perhaps immi told me wrong? I can only apply for a new visa after April?

Online MaximusPrime

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Re: So she fired me.....
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2018, 10:22:29 AM »
Pretty sure that your visa will expire 2 weeks after your employer sends that info that you are no longer employed to immigration.
What type of visa did you expect to apply for? D-10 ( looking for work )? Can you even apply for an E-2 without a new employer on your own? (costly I would assume) You will need to get all those answers checked out.

Offline Imeunha

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Re: So she fired me.....
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2018, 10:25:12 AM »
I have an employer that wants to hire me. She wants someone asap but was willing tl wait for my contract end date in February.  I can't get the new D10, I don't have the points for it.  So I can jump to another job, if the timing works out.  Because if I have to wait til April to do a visa run, I don't think I can even legally be in Korea for 3 months just chillaxing....

Offline Thomas Mc

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Re: So she fired me.....
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2018, 10:30:43 AM »
I would not worry about it looking bad not completing a contract. It is known that there are employers that screw employees over and I think any future employer will be understanding if you explain the situation.