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Author Topic: Oh God, now the Koreans are taking over Canadian Classrooms...  (Read 2259 times)

Offline Piggydee

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Re: Oh God, now the Koreans are taking over Canadian Classrooms...
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2018, 03:07:34 PM »
I'm curious as to why old Japanese general and soldiers are not put through a war crime tribunal like what happen during the Nuremberg trails.  I've seen 2014 documentaries of Japanese generals and soldiers who are sitting in home painting calligraphy and sipping tea enjoying aging into their final days, while just THIS YEAR the United State deported a 95 year old former German citizen for his war crimes.  With all the heinous things they did why aren't they being held accountable?  German to this day is still sending 90+ year olds to prison.  So saying "they are just a wee old grampa" is not an excuse to evade justice.

It was a condition of Japanese surrender. Factions of the Japanese military wanted to prolong the war but the Emperor gained enough leverage with powerful military leaders by negotiating concessions with the US.

War isn't perfect.

I think the most I've seen from Japan has far as remorse goes is a Japanese soldier who gave his sword to the country of China and apologized for his role in the war that went on there in the 1930s and this Japanese OGBYN who is now seeking justice for the comfort women he had to exam during the war.  So there is that.  Otherwise, it seems these former soldiers and generals just get to skate on by in life  :rolleyes:

Offline AvecPommesFrites

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Re: Oh God, now the Koreans are taking over Canadian Classrooms...
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2018, 03:08:29 PM »
By the way.....

Living here....I've elected to NOT BE THAT PERSON. 

You know the ones that want to tell Africans/Native/Jews to "GET OVER IT." 
When I was at EPIK orientation I over heard a prospective English teacher (I'll let you imagine what she looked like) say that "She was sick and tired of hearing her students say Japanese people are bad because of what they did to Korea.  UGH GET OVER IT ALREADY!!!" 

Now while I don't accept any racism at all from my students, will I tell them the Japanese soldiers of the past were bad but please get to know a Japanese person before you think they are bad.  I explain in simple terms.  I tell them yes I know but we must make a future of peace.  But don't forget your history.  I'm sure if I blurted out "Get over it" to my kids about comfort women or Dokdo to my class I'm sure I'd get some parent phone calls.  So I say take the more diplomatic approach to "Teacher Japanese is Babo/Trashy."

We know, you mention your complete and utter disdain for the white race in just about every post you write while simultaneously stating you aren't racist.
Can I refill your eggnog for you? Get you something to eat? Drive you out to the middle of nowhere and leave you for dead?

Offline MayorHaggar

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Re: Oh God, now the Koreans are taking over Canadian Classrooms...
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2018, 03:11:59 PM »

Not quite true. The Japanese Navy still uses it.

And South Korea has cried out about the IJN using it in joint fleet exercises. Y'know, Korea's longstanding ALLY, and a navy who would be expected to come help South Koreans if the Norks ever invaded.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-southkorea-japan-flag/japan-to-skip-naval-event-after-south-korea-protests-over-rising-sun-flag-idUSKCN1MF0D7

I really don't get why Koreans get so bent out of shape by the Rising Sun flag. It's not like it has a cartoon of a Japanese soldier spitting on an ajeosshi or anything. As usual it just seems like a fake controversy spontaneously created by Koreans so they have something to complain about.

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Korea did not object to Japan's adoption of the Rising Sun Flag for the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force in 1952, nor to the entry into Korean port carrying the flag on a warship at the 1998 and 2008 navy fleet review held in Korea.[29] Korean negative campaigns against the Rising Sun Flag began in 2011 when a Korean football player Ki Sung-yueng was accused of making a racial gesture, which he defended claiming he was annoyed at having seen a Rising Sun Flag in the stadium.[30] The next year in 2012, a word "war crime flag" was coined in South Korea to spread bad image of the flag.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_Flag

The Rising Sun flag has been used in Japan for 400 years and has a lot of history outside of being used by the Japan which occupied Korea. You might as well protest the normal flag of Japan, or Hello Kitty or Pikachu or katsu curry or Samsung cars (rebadged Nissans). I probably shouldn't give Koreans any ideas.
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Offline MayorHaggar

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Re: Oh God, now the Koreans are taking over Canadian Classrooms...
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2018, 03:16:42 PM »
By the way.....

Living here....I've elected to NOT BE THAT PERSON. 

You know the ones that want to tell Africans/Native/Jews to "GET OVER IT." 
When I was at EPIK orientation I over heard a prospective English teacher (I'll let you imagine what she looked like) say that "She was sick and tired of hearing her students say Japanese people are bad because of what they did to Korea.  UGH GET OVER IT ALREADY!!!" 

Now while I don't accept any racism at all from my students, will I tell them the Japanese soldiers of the past were bad but please get to know a Japanese person before you think they are bad.  I explain in simple terms.  I tell them yes I know but we must make a future of peace.  But don't forget your history.  I'm sure if I blurted out "Get over it" to my kids about comfort women or Dokdo to my class I'm sure I'd get some parent phone calls.  So I say take the more diplomatic approach to "Teacher Japanese is Babo/Trashy."

I don't think we will ever get through to Koreans (I've had 4 year old Koreans tell me "Japan is bad," and agreeing when I asked if this meant Japanese children or Pokemon were bad...this kid often wore a Pikachu shirt to school...) and I'm not big on telling other countries how to see their own history.

But for whatever reason Koreans seem to think they can tell people in other countries what to think. Just look at their "East Sea" outrage industry, or the way that the first thing foreign tourists see when they arrive in Incheon and get on the AREX train is a crappy "Dokdo is Korea land" propaganda film.
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Online zola

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Re: Oh God, now the Koreans are taking over Canadian Classrooms...
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2018, 03:21:57 PM »
I'm curious as to why old Japanese general and soldiers are not put through a war crime tribunal like what happen during the Nuremberg trails.  I've seen 2014 documentaries of Japanese generals and soldiers who are sitting in home painting calligraphy and sipping tea enjoying aging into their final days, while just THIS YEAR the United State deported a 95 year old former German citizen for his war crimes.  With all the heinous things they did why aren't they being held accountable?  German to this day is still sending 90+ year olds to prison.  So saying "they are just a wee old grampa" is not an excuse to evade justice.

It was a condition of Japanese surrender. Factions of the Japanese military wanted to prolong the war but the Emperor gained enough leverage with powerful military leaders by negotiating concessions with the US.

War isn't perfect.

I think the most I've seen from Japan has far as remorse goes is a Japanese soldier who gave his sword to the country of China and apologized for his role in the war that went on there in the 1930s and this Japanese OGBYN who is now seeking justice for the comfort women he had to exam during the war.  So there is that.  Otherwise, it seems these former soldiers and generals just get to skate on by in life  :rolleyes:

What do you think the average German soldier has done since the war?
The top brass were imprisoned or executed and they did trials for the bigger camps. The einsatzgruppen trial. And a few of the liberated Eastern European states had trials of any remaining axis leaders. The Soviets had a couple of million POWS, a bunch of which died before making it back to Germany.

By in large the vast majority of soldiers in the German army, even those with rank were never punished. Because how could you? It would have included most the male population of the country.

There are/were plenty of former soldiers who feel they had every right to do what they did and that Hitler had some good ideas. We visited my mum's fiend in Hanover in the late 1980s and the friends' father was a former Wehrmacht soldier and I have some pretty distinct memories of my dad and him getting into it. The old German man basically said that Europe would be a better place had the Nazis won.

The German state and education system has done a lot to repair the damage down to the German reputation, but to think that every soldier was down on their knees post 1945 saying "I'm so sorry" is nowhere near true.
Kpip! - Martin 2018

Offline Piggydee

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Re: Oh God, now the Koreans are taking over Canadian Classrooms...
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2018, 03:25:58 PM »
By the way.....

Living here....I've elected to NOT BE THAT PERSON. 

You know the ones that want to tell Africans/Native/Jews to "GET OVER IT." 
When I was at EPIK orientation I over heard a prospective English teacher (I'll let you imagine what she looked like) say that "She was sick and tired of hearing her students say Japanese people are bad because of what they did to Korea.  UGH GET OVER IT ALREADY!!!" 

Now while I don't accept any racism at all from my students, will I tell them the Japanese soldiers of the past were bad but please get to know a Japanese person before you think they are bad.  I explain in simple terms.  I tell them yes I know but we must make a future of peace.  But don't forget your history.  I'm sure if I blurted out "Get over it" to my kids about comfort women or Dokdo to my class I'm sure I'd get some parent phone calls.  So I say take the more diplomatic approach to "Teacher Japanese is Babo/Trashy."

I don't think we will ever get through to Koreans (I've had 4 year old Koreans tell me "Japan is bad," and agreeing when I asked if this meant Japanese children or Pokemon were bad...this kid often wore a Pikachu shirt to school...) and I'm not big on telling other countries how to see their own history.

But for whatever reason Koreans seem to think they can tell people in other countries what to think. Just look at their "East Sea" outrage industry, or the way that the first thing foreign tourists see when they arrive in Incheon and get on the AREX train is a crappy "Dokdo is Korea land" propaganda film.

I agree with kids that little saying that to you that's just plain old indoctrination.  I just say to them let's be nice to everybody.  ;D  I mean I'm sure there are probably little kids in America who think anyone South of the US boarder is a "Bad guy" because of what they hear in the news if the TV is playing in the living room and if their parents  are Ron DeSantis. ;D


Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Oh God, now the Koreans are taking over Canadian Classrooms...
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2018, 03:30:58 PM »
Back in 90s/early 2000s, this kind of thing would have had the kids putting together some kind of researched project to educate everyone on why some people view the Rising Sun flag so negatively and the teacher would have encouraged its presentation because the students were doing research and making an argument in the spirit of debate. Now it's some sort of inney-net petition and social media woke mob that doesn't want to be exposed to history in its history class.

Seriously, these days the idiot mobs are more triggered by this stuff than actual people who fought them. Mel Brooks dug out German land mines and he can not freak out about Nazi stuff in the context of humor. Union soldiers who fought the Confederates and watched their buddies get blasted to bits and bayoneted were able to hug Rebels and not freak if they put up a statue to Stonewall Jackson. Now people whose primary interaction with the Japanese is Pokeyman crap get triggered at the site of a Rising Sun Flag as part of a history class in Canada. I don't begrudge Koreans in Korea being upset over that stuff (heck, they have some good points), after all long after we're gone they'll still be dealing with the Japanese and all their stuff. But their teacher isn't Japanese and this isn't Korea and that door isn't some embassy or shrine.

Put up a comfort women or Rape of Nanking poster next to it. And then add in a Japanese Internment display for good measure. Maybe tack on Mitsuo Fuchida and Jacob DeShazer. That whole display should be part of the beginning of understanding history, not closing off your mind.

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Oh God, now the Koreans are taking over Canadian Classrooms...
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2018, 03:34:46 PM »
But for whatever reason Koreans seem to think they can tell people in other countries what to think. Just look at their "East Sea" outrage industry, or the way that the first thing foreign tourists see when they arrive in Incheon and get on the AREX train is a crappy "Dokdo is Korea land" propaganda film.
Dude, all things considered, on the historical scale of telling people in other countries "what to think", if that's the worst Korea has done, that's pretty tame.

Oh no! It's a video on the subway as everyone has earphones and is staring at their phones! What's that? A full page ad in the New York Times? Diabolical International Propaganda Campaign! They practically put a gun to my head with those things!!!!
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 03:38:49 PM by Mr.DeMartino »

Online eggieguffer

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Re: Oh God, now the Koreans are taking over Canadian Classrooms...
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2018, 03:43:52 PM »
But for whatever reason Koreans seem to think they can tell people in other countries what to think. Just look at their "East Sea" outrage industry, or the way that the first thing foreign tourists see when they arrive in Incheon and get on the AREX train is a crappy "Dokdo is Korea land" propaganda film.
Dude, all things considered, on the historical scale of telling people in other countries "what to think", if that's the worst Korea has done, that's pretty tame.

Oh no! It's a video on the subway as everyone has earphones and is staring at their phones! What's that? A full page ad in the New York Times? Diabolical International Propaganda Campaign! They practically put a gun to my head with those things!!!!

True, try living in a Muslim country to get the real experience of being told what to think.

Online Savant

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Re: Oh God, now the Koreans are taking over Canadian Classrooms...
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2018, 03:48:36 PM »
But for whatever reason Koreans seem to think they can tell people in other countries what to think. Just look at their "East Sea" outrage industry, or the way that the first thing foreign tourists see when they arrive in Incheon and get on the AREX train is a crappy "Dokdo is Korea land" propaganda film.
Dude, all things considered, on the historical scale of telling people in other countries "what to think", if that's the worst Korea has done, that's pretty tame.

Oh no! It's a video on the subway as everyone has earphones and is staring at their phones! What's that? A full page ad in the New York Times? Diabolical International Propaganda Campaign! They practically put a gun to my head with those things!!!!

True, try living in a Muslim country to get the real experience of being told what to think.

All muslim countries?

Online eggieguffer

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Re: Oh God, now the Koreans are taking over Canadian Classrooms...
« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2018, 04:00:43 PM »
But for whatever reason Koreans seem to think they can tell people in other countries what to think. Just look at their "East Sea" outrage industry, or the way that the first thing foreign tourists see when they arrive in Incheon and get on the AREX train is a crappy "Dokdo is Korea land" propaganda film.
Dude, all things considered, on the historical scale of telling people in other countries "what to think", if that's the worst Korea has done, that's pretty tame.

Oh no! It's a video on the subway as everyone has earphones and is staring at their phones! What's that? A full page ad in the New York Times? Diabolical International Propaganda Campaign! They practically put a gun to my head with those things!!!!

True, try living in a Muslim country to get the real experience of being told what to think.

All muslim countries?

I don't know, I can only personally speak for one, but have friends who lived in others.

Offline MayorHaggar

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Re: Oh God, now the Koreans are taking over Canadian Classrooms...
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2018, 05:36:50 AM »
But for whatever reason Koreans seem to think they can tell people in other countries what to think. Just look at their "East Sea" outrage industry, or the way that the first thing foreign tourists see when they arrive in Incheon and get on the AREX train is a crappy "Dokdo is Korea land" propaganda film.
Dude, all things considered, on the historical scale of telling people in other countries "what to think", if that's the worst Korea has done, that's pretty tame.

Oh no! It's a video on the subway as everyone has earphones and is staring at their phones! What's that? A full page ad in the New York Times? Diabolical International Propaganda Campaign! They practically put a gun to my head with those things!!!!

Koreans can do what they want but they (and you) always get completely bent out of shape when foreigners say things like "eating dog meat is wrong" (even thought lots and lots of Koreans agree). Fortunately unlike Koreans Western countries won't get completely offended when foreign Koreans tell them what to think and do, but it does make Koreans come off as weird nationalist obsessives.
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Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Oh God, now the Koreans are taking over Canadian Classrooms...
« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2018, 09:54:31 AM »
Koreans can do what they want but they (and you) always get completely bent out of shape when foreigners say things like "eating dog meat is wrong" (even thought lots and lots of Koreans agree).
Since lots of Koreans agree, doesn't that mean Koreans DON'T get bent out of shape. Doesn't that mean instead that there is a diversity of opinion? And also, don't they have every right to get bent out of shape when someone comes into their country and hypocritically tells them that a practice they do is wrong, as though that person is their effing king or something? Don't they have a point when they say "Who the f are you to come into our country and tell us what to do?" Wouldn't we have the same reaction?

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Fortunately unlike Koreans Western countries won't get completely offended when foreign Koreans tell them what to think and do
The Korean issues are pretty low-key and not part of daily life. There's a difference between demanding restaurants all over the country be closed down because they serve a certain kind of meat vs. renaming a sea on a map. Even the flag issue doesn't really get into Westerner's daily lives, not to mention everyone wants to be woke these days.

If you do want to see Western Countries flip out, watch what happens when some country tells them to piss off and that they reject their international business model. What follows are sanctions, coup attempts through the financial backing of rebels, and it often escalates to lobbing cruise missiles and an attempted toppling of the regime that leads to civil warfare and mass homelessness.

Or just look out at how people flip out over the perceived danger of Sharia law coming into their country.

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but it does make Koreans come off as weird nationalist obsessives.

Something no one ever thinks when they think of Americans.

Offline MayorHaggar

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Re: Oh God, now the Koreans are taking over Canadian Classrooms...
« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2018, 10:54:27 AM »
Quote from: Mr. Deskwarmer
Don't they have a point when they say "Who the f are you to come into our country and tell us what to do?"

Like when they tell Canadians not to display the Japanese Naval flag?

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but it does make Koreans come off as weird nationalist obsessives.

Something no one ever thinks when they think of Americans.

Well you're certainly doing your part, Mister "I proudly spend my day on notorious white supremacist websites."
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Re: Oh God, now the Koreans are taking over Canadian Classrooms...
« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2018, 11:22:00 AM »
I'm curious as to why old Japanese general and soldiers are not put through a war crime tribunal like what happen during the Nuremberg trails.  I've seen 2014 documentaries of Japanese generals and soldiers who are sitting in home painting calligraphy and sipping tea enjoying aging into their final days, while just THIS YEAR the United State deported a 95 year old former German citizen for his war crimes.  With all the heinous things they did why aren't they being held accountable?  German to this day is still sending 90+ year olds to prison.  So saying "they are just a wee old grampa" is not an excuse to evade justice.

It was a condition of Japanese surrender. Factions of the Japanese military wanted to prolong the war but the Emperor gained enough leverage with powerful military leaders by negotiating concessions with the US.

War isn't perfect.
It was an unconditional surrender. However, it was General MacArthur who had ultimate say on which Japanese went on trial. The Emperor was even rumored to have offered to step down, and make Japan a republic. But, MacArthur felt it helped keep Japan stable if the Emperor, and key Japanese military, and political figures were kept in place, and immune from trial.

Offline Piggydee

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Re: Oh God, now the Koreans are taking over Canadian Classrooms...
« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2018, 12:25:42 PM »
I'm curious as to why old Japanese general and soldiers are not put through a war crime tribunal like what happen during the Nuremberg trails.  I've seen 2014 documentaries of Japanese generals and soldiers who are sitting in home painting calligraphy and sipping tea enjoying aging into their final days, while just THIS YEAR the United State deported a 95 year old former German citizen for his war crimes.  With all the heinous things they did why aren't they being held accountable?  German to this day is still sending 90+ year olds to prison.  So saying "they are just a wee old grampa" is not an excuse to evade justice.

It was a condition of Japanese surrender. Factions of the Japanese military wanted to prolong the war but the Emperor gained enough leverage with powerful military leaders by negotiating concessions with the US.

War isn't perfect.
It was an unconditional surrender. However, it was General MacArthur who had ultimate say on which Japanese went on trial. The Emperor was even rumored to have offered to step down, and make Japan a republic. But, MacArthur felt it helped keep Japan stable if the Emperor, and key Japanese military, and political figures were kept in place, and immune from trial.

Wow Good insight.  That makes sense I guess.  Speaking again about the Japanese military I was shocked to know they were also trying to take over India. (The Battle of Kohima and Imphal: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/22/world/asia/a-largely-indian-victory-in-world-war-ii-mostly-forgotten-in-india.html

They were trying to march through Burma in order to do that.  Japan really did want to dominate ALL OF ASIA.  As one of my friends who is a history buff said "they were influenced by the Brit to build an emperor" :huh: :huh: crazy

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Re: Oh God, now the Koreans are taking over Canadian Classrooms...
« Reply #36 on: November 22, 2018, 12:49:55 PM »
I'm curious as to why old Japanese general and soldiers are not put through a war crime tribunal like what happen during the Nuremberg trails.  I've seen 2014 documentaries of Japanese generals and soldiers who are sitting in home painting calligraphy and sipping tea enjoying aging into their final days, while just THIS YEAR the United State deported a 95 year old former German citizen for his war crimes.  With all the heinous things they did why aren't they being held accountable?  German to this day is still sending 90+ year olds to prison.  So saying "they are just a wee old grampa" is not an excuse to evade justice.

It was a condition of Japanese surrender. Factions of the Japanese military wanted to prolong the war but the Emperor gained enough leverage with powerful military leaders by negotiating concessions with the US.

War isn't perfect.
It was an unconditional surrender. However, it was General MacArthur who had ultimate say on which Japanese went on trial. The Emperor was even rumored to have offered to step down, and make Japan a republic. But, MacArthur felt it helped keep Japan stable if the Emperor, and key Japanese military, and political figures were kept in place, and immune from trial.

Wow Good insight.  That makes sense I guess.  Speaking again about the Japanese military I was shocked to know they were also trying to take over India. (The Battle of Kohima and Imphal: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/22/world/asia/a-largely-indian-victory-in-world-war-ii-mostly-forgotten-in-india.html

They were trying to march through Burma in order to do that.  Japan really did want to dominate ALL OF ASIA.  As one of my friends who is a history buff said "they were influenced by the Brit to build an emperor" :huh: :huh: crazy
Japan was the first in the region to industrialize, and seeing how all the European powers were dividing up the world, the Japanese also wanted to be part of the big boys' club too. They saw how the Russians, Brits, the Dutch, French, Spanish, and Americans were trying to carve up Asia literally at their doorstep, and I guess wanted to "protect" their turf.

There are only a handful of non-European nations that didn't have a least part of their territories colonized. And even less that weren't colonized by a European power.

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Oh God, now the Koreans are taking over Canadian Classrooms...
« Reply #37 on: November 22, 2018, 12:55:59 PM »
Like when they tell Canadians not to display the Japanese Naval flag?
So you agree that the Koreans are right to tell people to piss off when it comes to dog? Sorry, it seems to me that you have one set of standards for westerners and a different set of standards for Koreans. For Koreans, you think they shouldn't get as upset as they do when westerners tell them what to do, but you think it's perfectly okay for people in Canada to be upset when Koreans tell them what to do. You try to act like westerners aren't bothered by these things, but a full page ad in the NYTimes seems to get your riled and make Korea out to be some sort of ubernationalist entity seeking to enforce its ideology across the world with a full page newspaper ad (wooooooo).

It's pretty clear that in your case, they're wrong just because they're Korean and that you'll retroactively search for whatever justification you can find, rather than starting from principles and then applying those principles objectively and fairly, regardless of party.

Like, Korea taking out full page ads in the NYTimes over Dokdo or the Sea of Japan or whatever is like, comical. When you start equating it to ubernational and some sort of in-your-face propaganda effort to convince the world, you just come across as another bitter Korea hater who blows up everything Korea related out of proportion. Like, that sort of thing is something you snicker at for 30 seconds, and then you look at things like the British Empire or Communism or Global Capitalism when it comes to things that really tried to tell people how to think around the world. Get some sense of frickin proportion.

Korea Derangement Syndrome= when you equate NYTimes ads or a Dokdo video with Communist Revolution or ISIS.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2018, 01:10:12 PM by Mr.DeMartino »

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Oh God, now the Koreans are taking over Canadian Classrooms...
« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2018, 01:11:44 PM »
Well you're certainly doing your part, Mister "I proudly spend my day on notorious white supremacist websites."
Just making shit up now.

You're the bigot. You're the one that can't even apply fair standards and expectations to people of different cultures.

Offline Piggydee

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Re: Oh God, now the Koreans are taking over Canadian Classrooms...
« Reply #39 on: November 22, 2018, 01:20:37 PM »
I mean If I was President Moon I try pushing to the punishment of former Japanese soldiers.
I mean it's not too late.....

Khmer Rouge leaders found guilty of Cambodia genocide

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-46217896