March 27, 2019, 08:08:13 AM


Author Topic: Sucker  (Read 1137 times)

Offline gogators!

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Sucker
« on: November 12, 2018, 10:42:26 PM »
Quote
North Korea is moving ahead with its ballistic missile program at 16 hidden bases that have been identified in new commercial satellite images, a network long known to American intelligence agencies but left undiscussed as President Trump claims to have neutralized the North’s nuclear threat.

The satellite images suggest that the North has been engaged in a great deception: It has offered to dismantle a major launching site — a step it began, then halted — while continuing to make improvements at more than a dozen others that would bolster launches of conventional and nuclear warheads.

What a deal!

Offline SeoulAlone

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Re: Sucker
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2018, 07:21:03 AM »
I'd like to say I'm shocked, but I'm not. 

Offline kengreen

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Re: Sucker
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2018, 07:23:47 AM »
I lived in Korea for over a decade, and those rockets were always flying into the Sea of Japan. Donald arrives on the scene, and those rockets are now silent. Somehow, this is viewed as a failure. I'd call that Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Offline AvecPommesFrites

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Re: Sucker
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2018, 08:52:46 AM »
Can you imagine if Uncle Kim dropped a Nuke in the middle of the desert on ISIS and smote those mother fuckers to nothing but ashes? Be popping bottles in the UN.
Can I refill your eggnog for you? Get you something to eat? Drive you out to the middle of nowhere and leave you for dead?

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Sucker
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2018, 09:28:06 AM »
Seems there's more to the story

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/12/politics/north-korea-hidden-missile-bases/index.html
Quote
Specifically, the images focus on the Sakkanmol missile base, which "currently houses a unit equipped with short-range ballistic missiles but could easily accommodate more capable medium-range ballistic warheads."

SRBM and MRBMs are of lower priority than ICBMs.

Obviously, any plan for peace would involve a phased draw down of capabilities. ICBMs and nuclear testing would be first. Then once certain conditions are met, we'll likely see the elimination of North Korea's MRBMs. It will probably be able to keep some SRBMs until reunification as those are pretty standard for any capable military.

You know, this kind of reporting by the media is really irresponsible. It attempts to sabotage the peace process by making things look much worse than they really are and failing to give context. All of this just to make Trump look bad.

If the media really is decreasing the chances of peace just to sell stories and trash Trump, then they really are the enemy of the people. And yes, the same goes for the FOXNews clowns who rile people up about the Iran peace deal.

Offline Andyman

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Re: Sucker
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2018, 10:34:31 AM »
Ah, screw it. My self-imposed ban lasted less than 24 hours.

Quote
You know, this kind of reporting by the media is really irresponsible. It attempts to sabotage the peace process by making things look much worse than they really are and failing to give context. All of this just to make Trump look bad.

If the media really is decreasing the chances of peace just to sell stories and trash Trump, then they really are the enemy of the people. And yes, the same goes for the FOXNews clowns who rile people up about the Iran peace deal.

The CNN report, and others, are merely citing new findings released (probably with considerable fanfare) by the Center for Strategic and International Studies, which counts among its trustees such notorious liberals as Henry Kissinger, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Brent Sowcroft and Rex Tillerson.

Here is the report: https://beyondparallel.csis.org/north-koreas-undeclared-missile-operating-bases/

Nothing about this suggests that it's an attempt to "trash Trump". If you were an editor and given this information, what would you do - publish a summary and put it into the context of ongoing negotiations with North Korea, or uncritically echo the Trump administration's position?

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Sucker
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2018, 11:51:33 AM »
Ah, screw it. My self-imposed ban lasted less than 24 hours.

Quote
You know, this kind of reporting by the media is really irresponsible. It attempts to sabotage the peace process by making things look much worse than they really are and failing to give context. All of this just to make Trump look bad.

If the media really is decreasing the chances of peace just to sell stories and trash Trump, then they really are the enemy of the people. And yes, the same goes for the FOXNews clowns who rile people up about the Iran peace deal.

The CNN report, and others, are merely citing new findings released (probably with considerable fanfare) by the Center for Strategic and International Studies, which counts among its trustees such notorious liberals Neo Cons and Never Trumpersas Henry Kissinger, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Brent Sowcroft and Rex Tillerson.

Here is the report: https://beyondparallel.csis.org/north-koreas-undeclared-missile-operating-bases/

Nothing about this suggests that it's an attempt to "trash Trump". If you were an editor and given this information, what would you do - publish a summary and put it into the context of ongoing negotiations with North Korea, or uncritically echo the Trump administration's position?

FTFY

It obviously should be reported, but leaving out the context of SRBMs/MRBMs and the fact that negotiations would likely be phased, is bad reporting. You can say something along the lines of "Is this a stumbling block in the Trump Administration's peace efforts or is it a sign that negotiations are still in the initial stages before a wider peace plan is implemented?" and "While there appears to be no activity at ICBM sites, the question remains of activity regarding North Korea's SRBM/MRBM capability and the disarmament of those facilities"

Online Mr C

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Re: Sucker
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2018, 04:37:08 PM »
The CNN report, and others, are merely citing new findings released (probably with considerable fanfare) by the Center for Strategic and International Studies, which counts among its trustees such notorious liberals Neo Cons and Never Trumpersas Henry Kissinger, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Brent Sowcroft and Rex Tillerson.

<snip>

FTFY
[/quote]
So in other words, the only people who have meaningful criticism of Donald Trump are … rabid Trump fans.  Nice one.

Offline gogators!

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Re: Sucker
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2018, 08:44:02 PM »
Can you imagine if Uncle Kim dropped a Nuke in the middle of the desert on ISIS and smote those mother fuckers to nothing but ashes? Be popping bottles in the UN.
What about those starving in Yemen thanks to our support of Saudi Arabia?

ISIS?!? Obama had them on the run. We're just mopping up now.

Offline gogators!

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Re: Sucker
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2018, 08:45:25 PM »
Seems there's more to the story

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/12/politics/north-korea-hidden-missile-bases/index.html
Quote
Specifically, the images focus on the Sakkanmol missile base, which "currently houses a unit equipped with short-range ballistic missiles but could easily accommodate more capable medium-range ballistic warheads."

SRBM and MRBMs are of lower priority than ICBMs.

Obviously, any plan for peace would involve a phased draw down of capabilities. ICBMs and nuclear testing would be first. Then once certain conditions are met, we'll likely see the elimination of North Korea's MRBMs. It will probably be able to keep some SRBMs until reunification as those are pretty standard for any capable military.

You know, this kind of reporting by the media is really irresponsible. It attempts to sabotage the peace process by making things look much worse than they really are and failing to give context. All of this just to make Trump look bad.

If the media really is decreasing the chances of peace just to sell stories and trash Trump, then they really are the enemy of the people. And yes, the same goes for the FOXNews clowns who rile people up about the Iran peace deal.
Blame the media? Empty minds think alike.

Offline MayorHaggar

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Re: Sucker
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2018, 06:21:53 AM »
The CNN report, and others, are merely citing new findings released (probably with considerable fanfare) by the Center for Strategic and International Studies, which counts among its trustees such notorious liberals Neo Cons and Never Trumpersas Henry Kissinger, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Brent Sowcroft and Rex Tillerson.



FTFY
So in other words, the only people who have meaningful criticism of Donald Trump are … rabid Trump fans.  Nice one.

I had no idea that Rex Tillerson, who was personally chosen as Trump as his SoS, was a neocon never Trumper. Thanks Mr. Derpface for showing us the light.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:  :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Quote
Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on Yesterday at 01:40:32 PM

    Trump is a liar and a con man.

Online Savant

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Re: Sucker
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2018, 08:03:45 AM »
The CNN report, and others, are merely citing new findings released (probably with considerable fanfare) by the Center for Strategic and International Studies, which counts among its trustees such notorious liberals Neo Cons and Never Trumpersas Henry Kissinger, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Brent Sowcroft and Rex Tillerson.



FTFY
So in other words, the only people who have meaningful criticism of Donald Trump are … rabid Trump fans.  Nice one.

I had no idea that Rex Tillerson, who was personally chosen as Trump as his SoS, was a neocon never Trumper. Thanks Mr. Derpface for showing us the light.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:  :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

"Neocon" is so George W Bush era.

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Sucker
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2018, 10:28:50 AM »
The CNN report, and others, are merely citing new findings released (probably with considerable fanfare) by the Center for Strategic and International Studies, which counts among its trustees such notorious liberals Neo Cons and Never Trumpersas Henry Kissinger, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Brent Sowcroft and Rex Tillerson.



FTFY
So in other words, the only people who have meaningful criticism of Donald Trump are … rabid Trump fans.  Nice one.

I had no idea that Rex Tillerson, who was personally chosen as Trump as his SoS, was a neocon never Trumper. Thanks Mr. Derpface for showing us the light.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:  :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

He was selected at the start when Trump made some concessions to the Establishment (like Reince Preibus). It's clear from their relationship that they didn't see eye to eye on things.

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Sucker
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2018, 10:39:17 AM »
So in other words, the only people who have meaningful criticism of Donald Trump are … rabid Trump fans.  Nice one.
No, you didn't follow the argument.

The point the OP made was that those people were not liberal. I pointed out how they were in line with the "Never Trump" establishment that is ideologically opposed to Trump.

You do realize that in some, possibly many, ways the Neo-Cons/Never-Trumpers and the Neo-Liberals have more in common than say, the Neo-Liberals and the Progressive/Hard Left and that in some aspects, the Hard Left has more in common with the Trumpists than the Neo-Liberals, right?

Both Trumpists and Hard Leftists are much more skeptical of global institutions like the WTO or the EU (you see this in Europe). They are also much more likely to favor isolationaism. They also are deeply skeptical of financial structures and view things in terms of a "wealthy elite". Talk of a 'Deep State' is much more likely to be accepted by both the hard left and right.

To use an analogy, Trump is sort of like the George McGovern of the Republicans, only successful and even more of an outsider. If MvGovern had won, there would have been a significant part of the Democratic Party establishment that would have opposed him and might have worked to actively thwart him- the Johnson wing of the party.

Saying that because someone is a Republican, therefore they are going to support Trump is incredibly shallow and fails to acknowledge the deep ideological schism now taking place inside the Republican Party, one that the Democrats are heading towards as well.

Offline gogators!

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Re: Sucker
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2018, 03:43:39 AM »
So in other words, the only people who have meaningful criticism of Donald Trump are … rabid Trump fans.  Nice one.
No, you didn't follow the argument.

The point the OP made was that those people were not liberal. I pointed out how they were in line with the "Never Trump" establishment that is ideologically opposed to Trump.

You do realize that in some, possibly many, ways the Neo-Cons/Never-Trumpers and the Neo-Liberals have more in common than say, the Neo-Liberals and the Progressive/Hard Left and that in some aspects, the Hard Left has more in common with the Trumpists than the Neo-Liberals, right?

Both Trumpists and Hard Leftists are much more skeptical of global institutions like the WTO or the EU (you see this in Europe). They are also much more likely to favor isolationaism. They also are deeply skeptical of financial structures and view things in terms of a "wealthy elite". Talk of a 'Deep State' is much more likely to be accepted by both the hard left and right.

To use an analogy, Trump is sort of like the George McGovern of the Republicans, only successful and even more of an outsider. If MvGovern had won, there would have been a significant part of the Democratic Party establishment that would have opposed him and might have worked to actively thwart him- the Johnson wing of the party.

Saying that because someone is a Republican, therefore they are going to support Trump is incredibly shallow and fails to acknowledge the deep ideological schism now taking place inside the Republican Party, one that the Democrats are heading towards as well.
I'm the OP. I never said anything about anyone's ideology.

LOOK OUT! IT'S A DERAIL. GET OFF THE TRAIN!