March 27, 2019, 09:14:02 AM


Author Topic: The New Retirement Plan: Save Almost Everything, Spend Virtually Nothing  (Read 1323 times)

Offline Cyanea

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A group of younger workers, devotees of the FIRE movement, are seeking ways to duck mistakes made by prior generations

Nov. 3, 2018 12:01 a.m. ET

Sylvia Hall wants to retire at age 40. Her dream has a price: brown bananas.

The 38-year-old Seattle lawyer is on a strict budget as she tries to hit her goal of amassing $2 million in assets by 2020. That means saving about 70% of her after-tax income and setting firm spending limits in every part of her life.

Even though they are better educated than their parents and grandparents, people between 25 and 35 have less wealth than prior recent generations, and “are behind in almost every economic dimension,” said Alicia Munnell, director of the Boston College Center for Retirement Research, including earnings and debt.

Some of the youngest members of the U.S. workforce are saving aggressively and spending little so they can leave work decades ahead of schedule, defying the career arc that typically defines adult life.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-new-retirement-plan-save-almost-everything-spend-virtually-nothing-1541217688

This is nothing new, eslers in Korea have been scrimping like scrooges since 2005   :laugh: .
Catch my drift?

Offline gogators!

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Re: The New Retirement Plan: Save Almost Everything, Spend Virtually Nothing
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2018, 10:46:31 PM »
This isn't all that new. See Mr. Money Moustache's blog.

Without the ACA, FIRE becomes much more difficult for most. But it's also a natural reaction to the employment scene these days--no pension, no job security, longer and longer work hours, depressed wages.

Online T.J.

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Re: The New Retirement Plan: Save Almost Everything, Spend Virtually Nothing
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2018, 06:11:57 AM »
This isn't all that new. See Mr. Money Moustache's blog.

Without the ACA, FIRE becomes much more difficult for most. But it's also a natural reaction to the employment scene these days--no pension, no job security, longer and longer work hours, depressed wages.

What do you mean “without the ACA”?
"An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."

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Online eggieguffer

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Re: The New Retirement Plan: Save Almost Everything, Spend Virtually Nothing
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2018, 07:35:03 AM »
Quote
A group of younger workers, devotees of the FIRE movement, are seeking ways to duck mistakes made by prior generations

Nov. 3, 2018 12:01 a.m. ET

Sylvia Hall wants to retire at age 40. Her dream has a price: brown bananas.

The 38-year-old Seattle lawyer is on a strict budget as she tries to hit her goal of amassing $2 million in assets by 2020. That means saving about 70% of her after-tax income and setting firm spending limits in every part of her life.

Even though they are better educated than their parents and grandparents, people between 25 and 35 have less wealth than prior recent generations, and “are behind in almost every economic dimension,” said Alicia Munnell, director of the Boston College Center for Retirement Research, including earnings and debt.

Some of the youngest members of the U.S. workforce are saving aggressively and spending little so they can leave work decades ahead of schedule, defying the career arc that typically defines adult life.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-new-retirement-plan-save-almost-everything-spend-virtually-nothing-1541217688

This is nothing new, eslers in Korea have been scrimping like scrooges since 2005   :laugh: .

Lawyers and people who work in finance/banking etc.. are in very high pressure jobs and usually desperate to get out one way or another. Hence the frantic saving. People in jobs they don't mind or enjoy don't have the sense of urgency and often do worse when they retire, as many medical studies have shown. Once you've indulged in the customary desire to travel round the word, swim with dolphins etc you have to think of something you actually want to, or have to do with your life.

Offline SeoulAlone

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Re: The New Retirement Plan: Save Almost Everything, Spend Virtually Nothing
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2018, 03:15:05 PM »
This isn't all that new. See Mr. Money Moustache's blog.

Without the ACA, FIRE becomes much more difficult for most. But it's also a natural reaction to the employment scene these days--no pension, no job security, longer and longer work hours, depressed wages.

Well, before the ACA, I was paying $200 US/month with a $10 co-pay.  The minute the ACA went into effect, I started paying $950 US/month, $40 co-pay, and lost my Primary. Yea!  I saved a TON because of it.   :rolleyes:  I'm not against helping others, but lets get real here.  Those of us who had great insurance lost out big time because of the ACA.  Not a fan of it. 

Back on topic.  Good for the those who are busting @ss to save and retire early!  I think it's commendable.

Offline gogators!

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Re: The New Retirement Plan: Save Almost Everything, Spend Virtually Nothing
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2018, 09:53:26 AM »
Quote
A group of younger workers, devotees of the FIRE movement, are seeking ways to duck mistakes made by prior generations

Nov. 3, 2018 12:01 a.m. ET

Sylvia Hall wants to retire at age 40. Her dream has a price: brown bananas.

The 38-year-old Seattle lawyer is on a strict budget as she tries to hit her goal of amassing $2 million in assets by 2020. That means saving about 70% of her after-tax income and setting firm spending limits in every part of her life.

Even though they are better educated than their parents and grandparents, people between 25 and 35 have less wealth than prior recent generations, and “are behind in almost every economic dimension,” said Alicia Munnell, director of the Boston College Center for Retirement Research, including earnings and debt.

Some of the youngest members of the U.S. workforce are saving aggressively and spending little so they can leave work decades ahead of schedule, defying the career arc that typically defines adult life.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-new-retirement-plan-save-almost-everything-spend-virtually-nothing-1541217688

This is nothing new, eslers in Korea have been scrimping like scrooges since 2005   :laugh: .

Lawyers and people who work in finance/banking etc.. are in very high pressure jobs and usually desperate to get out one way or another. Hence the frantic saving. People in jobs they don't mind or enjoy don't have the sense of urgency and often do worse when they retire, as many medical studies have shown. Once you've indulged in the customary desire to travel round the word, swim with dolphins etc you have to think of something you actually want to, or have to do with your life.
It's more the engineer and software types from what I've observed. Lawyers and bankers dig the prestige, perks, etc.

Offline gogators!

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Re: The New Retirement Plan: Save Almost Everything, Spend Virtually Nothing
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2018, 09:55:07 AM »
This isn't all that new. See Mr. Money Moustache's blog.

Without the ACA, FIRE becomes much more difficult for most. But it's also a natural reaction to the employment scene these days--no pension, no job security, longer and longer work hours, depressed wages.

What do you mean “without the ACA”?
Without the ACA it would be a lot tougher and more expensive to get individual health insurance. One of its purposes was to allow people to leave jobs they were stuck in because of the medical insurance benefits.

Offline gogators!

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Re: The New Retirement Plan: Save Almost Everything, Spend Virtually Nothing
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2018, 10:00:14 AM »
This isn't all that new. See Mr. Money Moustache's blog.

Without the ACA, FIRE becomes much more difficult for most. But it's also a natural reaction to the employment scene these days--no pension, no job security, longer and longer work hours, depressed wages.

Well, before the ACA, I was paying $200 US/month with a $10 co-pay.  The minute the ACA went into effect, I started paying $950 US/month, $40 co-pay, and lost my Primary. Yea!  I saved a TON because of it.   :rolleyes:  I'm not against helping others, but lets get real here.  Those of us who had great insurance lost out big time because of the ACA.  Not a fan of it. 

Back on topic.  Good for the those who are busting @ss to save and retire early!  I think it's commendable.
But you're not in their situation or your insurance wouldn't have gone up. If you show a low income, as FIRE persons do, then you'd be paying a lot less. Plus this allows the FIRE crowd with pre-existing conditions to be able to quit their jobs and still get insurance that will cover them.

As for your situation, a single payer system is the best answer.

Offline KoreaBoo

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Re: The New Retirement Plan: Save Almost Everything, Spend Virtually Nothing
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2018, 10:46:28 AM »
I feel sorry for you Americans.   

You vote in some liberal politician and feel good about yourself because of the colour of his skin and are surprised when the population pushes back when they introduced the ACA.

The ACA is a misnomer.  Those who actually have jobs and pay taxes saw their monthly expenses increase.  Having coverage doesn't really mean much when it means you become poor or possibly bankrupt when suffering from a serious illness.  It is truly mindboggling & disgusting when I see people supporting something that actually causes far more harm than good.

https://www.ehealthinsurance.com/resources/affordable-care-act/much-obamacare-cost-2017

I often see how gleeful & happy Americans are here when they can suddenly get to see a doctor and not pay a huge bill or get fleeced on prescriptions.  What is sadder is though many liberals tout the benefits of the ACA, I would suspect the majority if not most simply cannot afford to pay the premiums that are required now.  Currently, they seem to cost more than a car payment which is just wrong on so many levels.   But then again liberals seem to have no problem trying to make others pay for their poor life decisions.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2018, 10:50:18 AM by KoreaBoo »

Offline SeoulAlone

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Re: The New Retirement Plan: Save Almost Everything, Spend Virtually Nothing
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2018, 02:24:45 PM »
This isn't all that new. See Mr. Money Moustache's blog.

Without the ACA, FIRE becomes much more difficult for most. But it's also a natural reaction to the employment scene these days--no pension, no job security, longer and longer work hours, depressed wages.

Well, before the ACA, I was paying $200 US/month with a $10 co-pay.  The minute the ACA went into effect, I started paying $950 US/month, $40 co-pay, and lost my Primary. Yea!  I saved a TON because of it.   :rolleyes:  I'm not against helping others, but lets get real here.  Those of us who had great insurance lost out big time because of the ACA.  Not a fan of it. 

Back on topic.  Good for the those who are busting @ss to save and retire early!  I think it's commendable.
But you're not in their situation or your insurance wouldn't have gone up. If you show a low income, as FIRE persons do, then you'd be paying a lot less. Plus this allows the FIRE crowd with pre-existing conditions to be able to quit their jobs and still get insurance that will cover them.

As for your situation, a single payer system is the best answer.

That's where you're wrong.  At the time I was making $15 US an hour.. that is considered "low income". 

Offline SeoulAlone

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Re: The New Retirement Plan: Save Almost Everything, Spend Virtually Nothing
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2018, 02:25:08 PM »
I feel sorry for you Americans.   

You vote in some liberal politician and feel good about yourself because of the colour of his skin and are surprised when the population pushes back when they introduced the ACA.

The ACA is a misnomer.  Those who actually have jobs and pay taxes saw their monthly expenses increase.  Having coverage doesn't really mean much when it means you become poor or possibly bankrupt when suffering from a serious illness.  It is truly mindboggling & disgusting when I see people supporting something that actually causes far more harm than good.

https://www.ehealthinsurance.com/resources/affordable-care-act/much-obamacare-cost-2017

I often see how gleeful & happy Americans are here when they can suddenly get to see a doctor and not pay a huge bill or get fleeced on prescriptions.  What is sadder is though many liberals tout the benefits of the ACA, I would suspect the majority if not most simply cannot afford to pay the premiums that are required now.  Currently, they seem to cost more than a car payment which is just wrong on so many levels.   But then again liberals seem to have no problem trying to make others pay for their poor life decisions.

This...……………

Offline Cyanea

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Re: The New Retirement Plan: Save Almost Everything, Spend Virtually Nothing
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2018, 09:15:37 PM »



Problem I have with the FIRE types (of which there are many in the ESL community!) is they are no fun to be around. At all.

They mysteriously disappear when it is their round. They don't want to go on trips or do anything that costs money. They borrow money but don't pay it back. In fact they'd rather lose a friendship than pay back what they owe! Their whole existence revolves around making and saving money. That is not only boring, it is plain wrong.


Thats not what life is about. Where are your experiences, your travels, your adventures, if everything to you is so calculated in terms of dollars and cents? Do you ever do anything without counting the cost first? You see because the love of money is the root of all evil. This type of person is the same as those who  underpay employees, who treat other people as obstacles to be abused or exploited in order to reach their saving goals. These people are the ones destroying the environment or doing anything and everything for quick profits. Just so long as they hit their priority: money.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2018, 09:20:09 PM by Cyanea »
Catch my drift?

Offline gogators!

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Re: The New Retirement Plan: Save Almost Everything, Spend Virtually Nothing
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2018, 03:21:46 AM »
This isn't all that new. See Mr. Money Moustache's blog.

Without the ACA, FIRE becomes much more difficult for most. But it's also a natural reaction to the employment scene these days--no pension, no job security, longer and longer work hours, depressed wages.

Well, before the ACA, I was paying $200 US/month with a $10 co-pay.  The minute the ACA went into effect, I started paying $950 US/month, $40 co-pay, and lost my Primary. Yea!  I saved a TON because of it.   :rolleyes:  I'm not against helping others, but lets get real here.  Those of us who had great insurance lost out big time because of the ACA.  Not a fan of it. 

Back on topic.  Good for the those who are busting @ss to save and retire early!  I think it's commendable.
But you're not in their situation or your insurance wouldn't have gone up. If you show a low income, as FIRE persons do, then you'd be paying a lot less. Plus this allows the FIRE crowd with pre-existing conditions to be able to quit their jobs and still get insurance that will cover them.

As for your situation, a single payer system is the best answer.

That's where you're wrong.  At the time I was making $15 US an hour.. that is considered "low income".
Obviously not low enough or else the area you live in is not receiving much in the way of healthcare funding.

Offline gogators!

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Re: The New Retirement Plan: Save Almost Everything, Spend Virtually Nothing
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2018, 03:29:31 AM »
I feel sorry for you Americans.   

You vote in some liberal politician and feel good about yourself because of the colour of his skin and are surprised when the population pushes back when they introduced the ACA.

The ACA is a misnomer.  Those who actually have jobs and pay taxes saw their monthly expenses increase.  Having coverage doesn't really mean much when it means you become poor or possibly bankrupt when suffering from a serious illness.  It is truly mindboggling & disgusting when I see people supporting something that actually causes far more harm than good.

https://www.ehealthinsurance.com/resources/affordable-care-act/much-obamacare-cost-2017

I often see how gleeful & happy Americans are here when they can suddenly get to see a doctor and not pay a huge bill or get fleeced on prescriptions.  What is sadder is though many liberals tout the benefits of the ACA, I would suspect the majority if not most simply cannot afford to pay the premiums that are required now.  Currently, they seem to cost more than a car payment which is just wrong on so many levels.   But then again liberals seem to have no problem trying to make others pay for their poor life decisions.
That is utterly untrue. Thanks to the ACA. millions more Americans now have health insurance and people with pre-existing conditions can now be insured. Your "suspicions" are wrong.

Things could be better, no doubt.
Quote
Factors driving the reversal include insurers pulling out of the Obamacare exchanges, rising premiums and efforts by President Donald Trump and congressional Republicans to weaken the law.

I just visited my doctor in the US. I had blood drawn and tested. Got the results back the next day. I paid nothing.

And my monthly premium is nowhere near a car payment. 

Offline gideonvasquez

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Re: The New Retirement Plan: Save Almost Everything, Spend Virtually Nothing
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2018, 08:43:54 AM »
I feel sorry for you Americans.   

You vote in some liberal politician and feel good about yourself because of the colour of his skin and are surprised when the population pushes back when they introduced the ACA.

The ACA is a misnomer.  Those who actually have jobs and pay taxes saw their monthly expenses increase.  Having coverage doesn't really mean much when it means you become poor or possibly bankrupt when suffering from a serious illness.  It is truly mindboggling & disgusting when I see people supporting something that actually causes far more harm than good.

https://www.ehealthinsurance.com/resources/affordable-care-act/much-obamacare-cost-2017

I often see how gleeful & happy Americans are here when they can suddenly get to see a doctor and not pay a huge bill or get fleeced on prescriptions.  What is sadder is though many liberals tout the benefits of the ACA, I would suspect the majority if not most simply cannot afford to pay the premiums that are required now.  Currently, they seem to cost more than a car payment which is just wrong on so many levels.   But then again liberals seem to have no problem trying to make others pay for their poor life decisions.
That is utterly untrue. Thanks to the ACA. millions more Americans now have health insurance and people with pre-existing conditions can now be insured. Your "suspicions" are wrong.

Things could be better, no doubt.
Quote
Factors driving the reversal include insurers pulling out of the Obamacare exchanges, rising premiums and efforts by President Donald Trump and congressional Republicans to weaken the law.

I just visited my doctor in the US. I had blood drawn and tested. Got the results back the next day. I paid nothing.

And my monthly premium is nowhere near a car payment.
The most interesting thing to me about the ACA is how little is understood about the manner in which premiums are subsidized. The eligibility is based on an individual or family's adjusted gross income compared to the federal poverty level. There are five levels of subsidies that start at 138% of the federal poverty level, this is about $19,000 for singles up to $39,000 for a family of four. People below 138% of the poverty level usually qualify for medicaid, although about half of US states (guess which half) didn't expand medicaid coverage so the qualification is still the FPL. The top eligibility bracket is 400% of the FPL. These levels basically determine the level of additional support you could receive for healthcare costs (the lower your income the more non-premium costs become subsidized).

All the people within those eligibility ranges are supposed to receive subsidies that ensure premiums if they were to enroll in a silver plan on a federal exchange do not exceed 9.5% of AGI. Silver plans are usually where 70% of risk is carried by insurers and 30% by the insured with moderate deductibles. So an example would be, a single person making $30,000 a year looking for coverage can enroll in silver plan for $200 a month. So $2,400 a year. 9.5% of their $30,000 AGI is $2,850 so they will receive the difference of $450 as a subsidy.

Now, some people might not want a silver plan. They might want a gold plan for an 80-20 risk division and lower deductibles. In the above example the person looking for a gold plan might pay $300 a month for an annual cost of $3,600. But, regardless of their chosen level of coverage the subsidy is based on the silver level. So, they still receive $450 as a subsidy.

The prices of these plans, income level, and subsidy level were based on inputting test data into my own state's 2019 federal exchange so the experience others might have in other states could vary.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2018, 09:38:09 AM by gideonvasquez »

Offline gogators!

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Re: The New Retirement Plan: Save Almost Everything, Spend Virtually Nothing
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2018, 11:28:32 AM »
I feel sorry for you Americans.   

You vote in some liberal politician and feel good about yourself because of the colour of his skin and are surprised when the population pushes back when they introduced the ACA.

The ACA is a misnomer.  Those who actually have jobs and pay taxes saw their monthly expenses increase.  Having coverage doesn't really mean much when it means you become poor or possibly bankrupt when suffering from a serious illness.  It is truly mindboggling & disgusting when I see people supporting something that actually causes far more harm than good.

https://www.ehealthinsurance.com/resources/affordable-care-act/much-obamacare-cost-2017

I often see how gleeful & happy Americans are here when they can suddenly get to see a doctor and not pay a huge bill or get fleeced on prescriptions.  What is sadder is though many liberals tout the benefits of the ACA, I would suspect the majority if not most simply cannot afford to pay the premiums that are required now.  Currently, they seem to cost more than a car payment which is just wrong on so many levels.   But then again liberals seem to have no problem trying to make others pay for their poor life decisions.
That is utterly untrue. Thanks to the ACA. millions more Americans now have health insurance and people with pre-existing conditions can now be insured. Your "suspicions" are wrong.

Things could be better, no doubt.
Quote
Factors driving the reversal include insurers pulling out of the Obamacare exchanges, rising premiums and efforts by President Donald Trump and congressional Republicans to weaken the law.

I just visited my doctor in the US. I had blood drawn and tested. Got the results back the next day. I paid nothing.

And my monthly premium is nowhere near a car payment.
The most interesting thing to me about the ACA is how little is understood about the manner in which premiums are subsidized. The eligibility is based on an individual or family's adjusted gross income compared to the federal poverty level. There are five levels of subsidies that start at 138% of the federal poverty level, this is about $19,000 for singles up to $39,000 for a family of four. People below 138% of the poverty level usually qualify for medicaid, although about half of US states (guess which half) didn't expand medicaid coverage so the qualification is still the FPL. The top eligibility bracket is 400% of the FPL. These levels basically determine the level of additional support you could receive for healthcare costs (the lower your income the more non-premium costs become subsidized).

All the people within those eligibility ranges are supposed to receive subsidies that ensure premiums if they were to enroll in a silver plan on a federal exchange do not exceed 9.5% of AGI. Silver plans are usually where 70% of risk is carried by insurers and 30% by the insured with moderate deductibles. So an example would be, a single person making $30,000 a year looking for coverage can enroll in silver plan for $200 a month. So $2,400 a year. 9.5% of their $30,000 AGI is $2,850 so they will receive the difference of $450 as a subsidy.

Now, some people might not want a silver plan. They might want a gold plan for an 80-20 risk division and lower deductibles. In the above example the person looking for a gold plan might pay $300 a month for an annual cost of $3,600. But, regardless of their chosen level of coverage the subsidy is based on the silver level. So, they still receive $450 as a subsidy.

The prices of these plans, income level, and subsidy level were based on inputting test data into my own state's 2019 federal exchange so the experience others might have in other states could vary.
I've got a silver plan.

Offline LIC

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Re: The New Retirement Plan: Save Almost Everything, Spend Virtually Nothing
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2019, 05:29:46 PM »
I don't wanna retire. I booze too much now as it is. If I retired I'd probably become a pretty serious pisstank!

I know my limits  :laugh:

Online SanderB

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Re: The New Retirement Plan: Save Almost Everything, Spend Virtually Nothing
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2019, 04:25:35 AM »
Quote
a pretty serious pisstank

Plz. marry me!  ;D
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