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Author Topic: Foreign Political threads: proposal for TOS changes  (Read 3025 times)

Offline MayorHaggar

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Re: Foreign Political threads: proposal for TOS changes
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2018, 07:08:52 PM »
Some options:

a) ban it because it has very very little relevance to teaching English in South Korea, and because it is white nationalist nonsense, and they already have places to infest like Reddit and Stormfront and Infowars (which is where they get their nonsense from in the first place)

b) go the Dave's route and make a "White Nationalist Safe-Space" forum that you have to request to be added to, and if you don't want to be added to it you don't see it

c) actually moderate/ban people for posting obvious racist/sexist propaganda from websites that are obvious dens of white nationalism

None of us like putting up with Korean racism and nationalism, I don't get why we're supposed to put up with a handful of American (and some European) white nationalists. If we wanted to read that crap we'd be somewhere else.

2000-2010 era moderate conservatism, which is what you're seeing here, is hardly white nationalism. There's a lot of middle ground between actual white nationalism and the outraged bleeding heart 'liberalism' that has become the norm for under-30s in the west. The norm has shifted, and your proposal to ban anything that doesn't conform to it is not very liberal at all.

"Let's cast them out for not having the same views as us." And you call yourself a liberal?

I guess you haven't paid attention to the fact that white nationalism has become the face of conservatism in North America and Europe. It's making you look bad, conservatives. Deny it at your own peril.
Quote
Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on Yesterday at 01:40:32 PM

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Offline StillInKorea

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Re: Foreign Political threads: proposal for TOS changes
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2018, 07:44:08 PM »
Some options:

a) ban it because it has very very little relevance to teaching English in South Korea, and because it is white nationalist nonsense, and they already have places to infest like Reddit and Stormfront and Infowars (which is where they get their nonsense from in the first place)

b) go the Dave's route and make a "White Nationalist Safe-Space" forum that you have to request to be added to, and if you don't want to be added to it you don't see it

c) actually moderate/ban people for posting obvious racist/sexist propaganda from websites that are obvious dens of white nationalism

None of us like putting up with Korean racism and nationalism, I don't get why we're supposed to put up with a handful of American (and some European) white nationalists. If we wanted to read that crap we'd be somewhere else.

2000-2010 era moderate conservatism, which is what you're seeing here, is hardly white nationalism. There's a lot of middle ground between actual white nationalism and the outraged bleeding heart 'liberalism' that has become the norm for under-30s in the west. The norm has shifted, and your proposal to ban anything that doesn't conform to it is not very liberal at all.

"Let's cast them out for not having the same views as us." And you call yourself a liberal?

I guess you haven't paid attention to the fact that white nationalism has become the face of conservatism in North America and Europe. It's making you look bad, conservatives. Deny it at your own peril.

No it has not. Genuine white nationalists exist as they have always done, but it's no more a problem than it's ever been. On the other hand, aggression from the left has become much more extreme and violent, the far right has responded in kind, and now dumb 20 year old kids who don't know any better are trying to tar regular conservatives with the same brush.

I'm not even that conservative really, but the conservatives definitely sound a lot less ridiculous than the silly kids who grew up under Obama (who was not a bad president, but bred a generation of whiny little b***es).

Offline Andyman

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Re: Foreign Political threads: proposal for TOS changes
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2018, 07:56:01 PM »
The solution, surely, should be more conservatives starting threads to whine about liberals.

Offline StillInKorea

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Re: Foreign Political threads: proposal for TOS changes
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2018, 09:28:58 PM »
The solution, surely, should be more conservatives starting threads to whine about liberals.

This thread was started by someone unhappy about conservative threads. Pseudoliberals don't want a debate, just a safe space for circlejerking.

Offline CDW

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Re: Foreign Political threads: proposal for TOS changes
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2018, 09:47:48 PM »
Most conservatives are not white nationalists. I think Trump, for example, recognizes the importance of preserving Western civilization but he also thinks that people of any race can be part of the West as long as they assimilate and don't cause problems. He's certainly not in favor of a white ethnostate. He gets upset about NFL players taking a knee. A true white nationalist wouldn't care.

Online JNM

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Re: Foreign Political threads: proposal for TOS changes
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2018, 10:15:49 PM »
The solution, surely, should be more conservatives starting threads to whine about liberals.

This thread was started by someone unhappy about conservative threads. Pseudoliberals don't want a debate, just a safe space for circlejerking.

Negative on that.

Not being American, I get annoyed by both sides of these polar "debates."

I've been described as both a "communist" and "slightly right of Attila the Hun" depending on the issue.



« Last Edit: November 12, 2018, 08:36:23 AM by JNM »

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Foreign Political threads: proposal for TOS changes
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2018, 05:32:58 AM »
Some options:

a) ban it because it has very very little relevance to teaching English in South Korea, and because it is white nationalist nonsense, and they already have places to infest like Reddit and Stormfront and Infowars (which is where they get their nonsense from in the first place)

b) go the Dave's route and make a "White Nationalist Safe-Space" forum that you have to request to be added to, and if you don't want to be added to it you don't see it

c) actually moderate/ban people for posting obvious racist/sexist propaganda from websites that are obvious dens of white nationalism

None of us like putting up with Korean racism and nationalism, I don't get why we're supposed to put up with a handful of American (and some European) white nationalists. If we wanted to read that crap we'd be somewhere else.

MayorHaggar, you consistently post what many would say are bigoted or even racist things about Koreans in this forum. For you to trash other people as white nationalists or to bring up "Korean racism" in your post is utterly ridiculous. If we really were going to cull the offensive, I think you might find yourself in trouble.

However, I think you should be allowed to post. I have never flagged any of your comments. I have only responded to them. I believe in the open marketplace of ideas and debate.

Really dude, look in the mirror before you start calling others racists.

Offline AvecPommesFrites

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Re: Foreign Political threads: proposal for TOS changes
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2018, 08:23:27 AM »
At this point in time without the die hard Americans who can't go more than five minutes without getting into a debate about politics the site would be dead.

I often wonder if these American politics regs have a little America flag on their work desk or even if when watching yankball they put their hand on their heart and sing along to the national anthem in their homes. I bet they do. 
Can I refill your eggnog for you? Get you something to eat? Drive you out to the middle of nowhere and leave you for dead?

Online eggieguffer

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Re: Foreign Political threads: proposal for TOS changes
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2018, 08:28:33 AM »
Some options:

a) ban it because it has very very little relevance to teaching English in South Korea, and because it is white nationalist nonsense, and they already have places to infest like Reddit and Stormfront and Infowars (which is where they get their nonsense from in the first place)

b) go the Dave's route and make a "White Nationalist Safe-Space" forum that you have to request to be added to, and if you don't want to be added to it you don't see it

c) actually moderate/ban people for posting obvious racist/sexist propaganda from websites that are obvious dens of white nationalism

None of us like putting up with Korean racism and nationalism, I don't get why we're supposed to put up with a handful of American (and some European) white nationalists. If we wanted to read that crap we'd be somewhere else.

MayorHaggar, you consistently post what many would say are bigoted or even racist things about Koreans in this forum. For you to trash other people as white nationalists or to bring up "Korean racism" in your post is utterly ridiculous. If we really were going to cull the offensive, I think you might find yourself in trouble.

However, I think you should be allowed to post. I have never flagged any of your comments. I have only responded to them. I believe in the open marketplace of ideas and debate.

Really dude, look in the mirror before you start calling others racists.

It's often the case isn't it, those people looking for racism everywhere are the ones with their own problems in that area. The Young Turks are another classic case.

Offline SeoulAlone

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Re: Foreign Political threads: proposal for TOS changes
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2018, 08:29:59 AM »
The solution, surely, should be more conservatives starting threads to whine about liberals.

This thread was started by someone unhappy about conservative threads. Pseudoliberals don't want a debate, just a safe space for circlejerking.

Negative on that.

Not being American, I get annoyed by both sides of these polar "debates."

I'm been described as both a "communist" and "slightly right of Attila the Hun" depending on the issue.

I am an American and even I get sick of these idiotic debates.  It's unfortunate that there will never be a grown-up truce of "agree to disagree"  Both side will continue to attack each other, hence the reason why I don't affiliate myself with either party. 

Offline AvecPommesFrites

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Re: Foreign Political threads: proposal for TOS changes
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2018, 08:34:30 AM »
Case in point Tino is commenting on lesson plan threads. Times are desperate.
Can I refill your eggnog for you? Get you something to eat? Drive you out to the middle of nowhere and leave you for dead?

Offline alexisalex

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Re: Foreign Political threads: proposal for TOS changes
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2018, 09:17:04 AM »
Case in point Tino is commenting on lesson plan threads. Times are desperate.

Lol, have you noticed that the Waygook "power" users (Demartino, Pecan, Stepz etc) never contributed any material/lesson plans to this site?

Offline hayleebb87

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Re: Foreign Political threads: proposal for TOS changes
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2018, 09:19:53 AM »
+1 I'm very interested in politics, but it gets really toxic on here.

Offline Andyman

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Re: Foreign Political threads: proposal for TOS changes
« Reply #33 on: November 12, 2018, 09:43:15 AM »
The solution, surely, should be more conservatives starting threads to whine about liberals.

This thread was started by someone unhappy about conservative threads. Pseudoliberals don't want a debate, just a safe space for circlejerking.

Negative on that.

Not being American, I get annoyed by both sides of these polar "debates."

I've been described as both a "communist" and "slightly right of Attila the Hun" depending on the issue.

I'd just add to this that I think some of the threads started by gogators! have been just as obnoxious as the conservative ones. Thankfully, though, he seems to have taken the hint, whereas our friends on the right still feel compelled to regularly insert the weekly conservative media talking points / hate targets onto Waygook.

Also, Stillinkorea... I can't find any examples of these conservative threads going unchallenged by all these fearful liberals, cowering from debate in their safe spaces. I'm not sure that willingness to participate in an online forum is an accurate measure of a person's bravery, either.

Offline hayleebb87

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Re: Foreign Political threads: proposal for TOS changes
« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2018, 09:47:24 AM »
The solution, surely, should be more conservatives starting threads to whine about liberals.

This thread was started by someone unhappy about conservative threads. Pseudoliberals don't want a debate, just a safe space for circlejerking.

Negative on that.

Not being American, I get annoyed by both sides of these polar "debates."

I'm been described as both a "communist" and "slightly right of Attila the Hun" depending on the issue.

I am an American and even I get sick of these idiotic debates.  It's unfortunate that there will never be a grown-up truce of "agree to disagree"  Both side will continue to attack each other, hence the reason why I don't affiliate myself with either party.

Agree with most of this. I've studied/worked in politics before and in this current climate, agree to disagree sounds great to me. Very few people are going to change their minds about their beliefs, especially now.

Offline AvecPommesFrites

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Re: Foreign Political threads: proposal for TOS changes
« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2018, 09:49:38 AM »
Case in point Tino is commenting on lesson plan threads. Times are desperate.

Lol, have you noticed that the Waygook "power" users (Demartino, Pecan, Stepz etc) never contributed any material/lesson plans to this site?

I'd pay the subscription fee just to see DeMartino's unique materials.  :wink:
Can I refill your eggnog for you? Get you something to eat? Drive you out to the middle of nowhere and leave you for dead?

Online eggieguffer

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Re: Foreign Political threads: proposal for TOS changes
« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2018, 09:57:02 AM »
Quote
Also, Stillinkorea... I can't find any examples of these conservative threads going unchallenged by all these fearful liberals, cowering from debate in their safe spaces. I'm not sure that willingness to participate in an online forum is an accurate measure of a person's bravery, either.

Most of the responses to the 'weekly conservative media target points' are knee-jerk 'you're triggered, you're not oppressed, you're a snowflake' type comments. Or 'it doesn't happen that often', 'other people have it much worse',  stop whingeing' etc..When Gogators isn't posting childish playground retorts, he's accusing people on an individual level of being rapists and perverts.

You're actually one of the few posters who bothers to post thoughtful counter arguments with stats Andyman and when you do, it improves the discussions.

Offline Andyman

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Re: Foreign Political threads: proposal for TOS changes
« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2018, 10:22:06 AM »
Thanks, I do try to be as constructive as possible, though my instinct for sarcasm often gets the better of me.

An honest question, not trying to provoke another argument - Do you think that some of the responses you've characterized as unconstructive are the result of these topics having already existed as background noise for a lot of people before they find their way here? That's often how it feels to me, and partially explains why I react the way that I sometimes do. I don't even have Facebook or Twitter accounts, and within the course of a day's news cycle, I feel like I've been exposed to a partisan viewpoints numerous times, partly through consuming basic mainstream media, partly through the insanity that is Donald Trump's Twitter feed (the only account I look at regularly, which in spite of all else, offers maximum entertainment value) and partly because I have a perverse fascination with rightwing media, so on particularly controversial issues I always check in to the likes of Breitbart, Fox News, etc., as well as some of the popular YouTube channels. And then there's the liberal responses to it all, which amplify it even further.

Anyway, there are more and less constructive ways to talk about these things, and I'm not necessarily for reorganizing the site as a result of them (though I don't really care much either way). However, I can't be the only one who thinks, Oh god, really? You want to talk about this? when some of these topics crop up, mainly because it can seem like an unwelcome, antagonistic intrusion (to which I often respond with an equally antagonistic attitude, I'll admit). Personally speaking, I would often rather not respond, but some of them are so insane and full of libelously false accusations against people (our more conspiracy-minded contributors are almost exclusively responsible for this) that I feel some kind of moral compulsion to speak up. But the threads inevitably descend into petty point-scoring (again, I'm not innocent here).

To be clear, I'm not saying that I'm the ultimate arbiter of what is worthy of discussion and what's not... Just trying to pin down why there's been a sudden reaction against political discussion on here.

Online eggieguffer

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Re: Foreign Political threads: proposal for TOS changes
« Reply #38 on: November 12, 2018, 10:29:26 AM »
Thanks, I do try to be as constructive as possible, though my instinct for sarcasm often gets the better of me.

An honest question, not trying to provoke another argument - Do you think that some of the responses you've characterized as unconstructive are the result of these topics having already existed as background noise for a lot of people before they find their way here? That's often how it feels to me, and partially explains why I react the way that I sometimes do. I don't even have Facebook or Twitter accounts, and within the course of a day's news cycle, I feel like I've been exposed to a partisan viewpoints numerous times, partly through consuming basic mainstream media, partly through the insanity that is Donald Trump's Twitter feed (the only account I look at regularly, which in spite of all else, offers maximum entertainment value) and partly because I have a perverse fascination with rightwing media, so on particularly controversial issues I always check in to the likes of Breitbart, Fox News, etc., as well as some of the popular YouTube channels. And then there's the liberal responses to it all, which amplify it even further.

Anyway, there are more and less constructive ways to talk about these things, and I'm not necessarily for reorganizing the site as a result of them (though I don't really care much either way). However, I can't be the only one who thinks, Oh god, really? You want to talk about this? when some of these topics crop up, mainly because it can seem like an unwelcome, antagonistic intrusion (to which I often respond with an equally antagonistic attitude, I'll admit). Personally speaking, I would often rather not respond, but some of them are so insane and full of libelously false accusations against people (our more conspiracy-minded contributors are almost exclusively responsible for this) that I feel some kind of moral compulsion to speak up. But the threads inevitably descend into petty point-scoring (again, I'm not innocent here).

To be clear, I'm not saying that I'm the ultimate arbiter of what is worthy of discussion and what's not... Just trying to pin down why there's been a sudden reaction against political discussion on here.

Speaking as a Brit, I don't follow US media much at all and our media is dominated by the left - I've already posted about the way the BBC works. I post occasional things I find interesting that crop up in my youtube but have no idea about how much they've already been done to death before.

Offline JVPrice

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Re: Foreign Political threads: proposal for TOS changes
« Reply #39 on: November 12, 2018, 10:42:11 AM »
I get where the OP is coming from. This site is supposed to be a place where teachers come and gather information about teaching and resoruces to help them do so. It paints a different picture when the entire front page is nothing but threads on people debating politics.

I don't think the threads need to be censored, but maybe not have them so prominent. If anything, lesson plans and job help topics should be the forefront of this website.
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