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Author Topic: Students Defend Music Teacher Arrested For Classroom Fight  (Read 2962 times)

Offline CDW

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Online Foreverparadise

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Re: Students Defend Music Teacher Arrested For Classroom Fight
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2018, 12:06:48 AM »
This is the kind of crap I have to deal with teaching on the reservation where I teach. Too many kids are growing up into defiant punks because of useless parents who bring them into the world and let them get away with crap.

The parents have been disallowed from disciplining their kids, is part of the problem.

I mean it is illegal for parents to spank their own kids now so it is no surprise we have arrived at the situation we're at.

And that what bothers me as a teacher.
I did not go into the education business to babysit
someone elses kids. But then you would beg to differ
when you go back to the old African saying that says:
It' takes a village to rasie a child.

Online Foreverparadise

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Re: Students Defend Music Teacher Arrested For Classroom Fight
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2018, 12:18:06 AM »
Coming across this news thread just made me think of the grade 7
students I had for music this morning. Some of them were disrespectful
to a point that one of the students said something very hurtful and
disrespectful to another student. The student who was disrespected
literally cried, and the student who said the hurtful words to her
acted so morally numb that I really got pissed off at him. I made it clear
what what he did was a form of bullying and I have no tolerace for that
in my classroom. His homeroom teacher and I both took action against
the rude bullying kid.

One of the girls who was disrespectul to me told me after class that the
reason why she was acting like that was because there was a lot of
yelling in her home, and she was barely able to get sleep because of
it. So she appologized to me for acting the way she did.

You see, I cannot take it all out on the kids because of the fact that they
come from bad home environments, but I told my grade 7 students that
they will not be babies in the future. They still need to learn respect and to
they still need to learn to take responsibility for their actions. That is what
discipline is all about, molding good character.

Offline Cyanea

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Re: Students Defend Music Teacher Arrested For Classroom Fight
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2018, 12:28:21 AM »
$149,000 has been donated for the teacher's legal defense.

I wonder how much I would get for all the abuse I've taken from Korean students.


Not as bad as in the video but close!

Quote from: Foreverparadise
I made it clear what what he did was a form of bullying and I have no tolerace for that
in my classroom.

My biggest regret about Korean esl has not been the abuse i've recieved, but the fact that I have been rendered powerless to stop bullies (boys hitting girls) in my class... because the director simply said to let it go.
Catch my drift?

Online some waygug-in

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Re: Students Defend Music Teacher Arrested For Classroom Fight
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2018, 02:43:54 AM »
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/spanking-has-no-place-in-canada-period/article32970512/



The law, which has changed little since it was introduced in 1892, reads as follows: "Every schoolteacher, parent or person standing in the place of a parent is justified in using force by way of correction toward a pupil or child, as the case may be, who is under his care, if the force does not exceed what is reasonable under the circumstances."

There have been numerous attempts to scrap this law over the years, including 17 private members' bills since 1994, but all have failed.



 :lipsrsealed:

It seems most Canadians are mis-informed.


Section 43 was even challenged as a violation of children's rights, but the law was deemed constitutional by the Supreme Court of Canada in 2004. The court, however, did put some strict parameters on the doling out of punishment, saying that it must be "corrective," "transitory and trifling in nature" and "not stemming from frustration or anger."





« Last Edit: November 10, 2018, 02:45:48 AM by some waygug-in »

sligo

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Re: Students Defend Music Teacher Arrested For Classroom Fight
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2018, 09:30:24 AM »
I will tell you as a black man and as a music teacher that I am in support of Mr. Riley. No, I do not condone punching a student but on the other hand, that little punk got what he deserved because he has no discipline from his home.
This is the kind of crap I have to deal with teaching on the reservation where I teach. Too many kids are growing up into defiant punks because of useless parents who bring them into the world and let them get away with crap. If we teachers are not allowed to lay a hand on them or cannot send them to the office because the principal is overworked, perhaps we might as well have some military trained security personnel in the school or some real tough disciplinarian specialist deal with these rotten kids.

And besides, I am willing to use my belt on any kids who disrespects me, not in the school but somewhere else.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: It seems there really is a prick in every bunch of roses!  Would taking off your belt to beat a child make you feel like a man?  Especially after he "disrespected" you.... Do you just type what the voices tell you?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2018, 09:59:36 AM by sligo »

Offline CDW

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Re: Students Defend Music Teacher Arrested For Classroom Fight
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2018, 09:45:57 AM »
I wonder how much I would get for all the abuse I've taken from Korean students.
Not as bad as in the video but close!
Probably not a single won if you fought a student like that. I can imagine what the next Hagwon Association seminar would be like:

"Korean culture is non-violent. Let's talk about a case of foreign teacher who didn't respect Korean culture...."

Offline Cyanea

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Re: Students Defend Music Teacher Arrested For Classroom Fight
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2018, 12:59:51 AM »
until he threw that first (of his) punch(es).  That one could be called "justified", maybe the next few too.

How wierd! You think punching a minor in the face in anger is ok.

I certainly don't.

But yet you are against a third party unemotionally applying the harmless cane to the offenders backside, something that causes no physical harm.


That is how clueless you are  :laugh:


Quote
"i just snapped" excuse may fall down.

How is that ever an excuse?

Quote
1 or 2 punches is self defense.

self defence? against what? 

Quote
Don't get me wrong, the teacher did the kid a favour.

ohhhhh reallllly.

i thought you were all against physical punishment of any kind, it was all just child abuse to you.

 
Quote
On the street, someone would have pulled a gun long before, and that kids would have been a footnote in a newspaper.

Ahhh now you're getting it. Kids have to be prepared to behave responsibly when they get into the real world. Amazing concept.


Thing about you sligo is that you have no clue what it is like to have to control a class of unruly teenagers. You're not even a teacher, by your own admission. Yet all it takes is one video to bring home the reality of the abuse teachers are expected to take day in day out and you finally realize that hold on, kids aren't always angels and teachers are people who do not deserve to be abused every day. Congratulations.
Catch my drift?

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Students Defend Music Teacher Arrested For Classroom Fight
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2018, 05:36:35 AM »
My biggest regret about Korean esl has not been the abuse i've recieved, but the fact that I have been rendered powerless to stop bullies (boys hitting girls) in my class... because the director simply said to let it go.
From what I understand is that the theory is that kids are supposed to solve these issues on their own (within limits) because they will face these issues when they become adults and there won't be a teacher there to stop them. They have to learn how to cope with it.

sligo

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Re: Students Defend Music Teacher Arrested For Classroom Fight
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2018, 06:50:22 AM »
until he threw that first (of his) punch(es).  That one could be called "justified", maybe the next few too.

How wierd! You think punching a minor in the face in anger is ok.

I certainly don't.

But yet you are against a third party unemotionally applying the harmless cane to the offenders backside, something that causes no physical harm.


That is how clueless you are  :laugh:


Quote
"i just snapped" excuse may fall down.

How is that ever an excuse?

Quote
1 or 2 punches is self defense.

self defence? against what? 

Quote
Don't get me wrong, the teacher did the kid a favour.

ohhhhh reallllly.

i thought you were all against physical punishment of any kind, it was all just child abuse to you.

 
Quote
On the street, someone would have pulled a gun long before, and that kids would have been a footnote in a newspaper.

Ahhh now you're getting it. Kids have to be prepared to behave responsibly when they get into the real world. Amazing concept.


Thing about you sligo is that you have no clue what it is like to have to control a class of unruly teenagers. You're not even a teacher, by your own admission. Yet all it takes is one video to bring home the reality of the abuse teachers are expected to take day in day out and you finally realize that hold on, kids aren't always angels and teachers are people who do not deserve to be abused every day. Congratulations.

Well done, Did you giggle to yourself as you did this?  Please show me where i have admitted to not being a teacher?  Are listening to the voices in your head, or actually reading my posts?

I think you need to read my posts again.  You either can't read, or are connecting dots that don't exist.  You are writing claims about me, you have no knowledge of, and just like you (refusing to admit you do NOT have kids) i am not going to plaster my life story over the internet.  I will say though, i have been in education for about 20 years, and more than half of that as a teacher (which I STILL AM), and have taught in all levels both at home and here.  I also spent a large chunk of time in the criminal justice sector, especially with substance misusers.  What's your story?

To compare the situation of a man who is being assaulted and feels the need to fight back, and that of a CHILD who disrupts a class is dishonest, disingenuous, and makes you look a bit sad! 
« Last Edit: November 12, 2018, 07:00:33 AM by sligo »

Offline Piggydee

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Re: Students Defend Music Teacher Arrested For Classroom Fight
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2018, 07:41:42 AM »
I'm on Team Teacher!  However, relating this back to Korea putting hands on kids under any circumstances is a big no no.  I actually started a topic about this a while back about what happens if a kids intentionally or accidentally causes you physical harm.  I've almost been on the receiving end of a hospital visit twice.  One time, this one 6th grade boy was rocking so hard back and forth he almost head butted me in my nose (I was standing behind him when he decided to do this stupid rocking motion) and another time about 2 weeks ago another 6th grade boy opened a door with such blunt force that he could have knocked out my teeth.  I thank my lucky stars I avoided injury in both cases.  I was told by others on here that NOTHING will be done about it.  That the school will just ask you to "get over it" if in the event you are harmed by a student.  You can't go after the student's parents for medical bills or what not.  And the most the student will do is muster up a "Mi an Hey" (Sorry, not sorry) for your pain and suffering.   

Seriously though I am TEAM TEACHER in this case.  Man, some of my 6th grade kids at my travel school really REALLY TRY ME!  However, I take solace in the fact that I will only see them 6 times (I see them once a week) for the rest of the year and I NO LONGER HAVE TO SEE THEM ANY MORE AFTER THAT!!

I get it that there are other forms of punishment that don't involve spanking but seriously with my 6th grade travel school kids, we have withheld games (THEY DON'T CARE about the games), We have had some stay in during break time to write sentences over and over and all they do during that time is bad mouth my Korean co-teacher.   I have even tried using my "Mr. Roger's" calm soothing voice to ask the students to behave, speaking in both Korean and English because APPARENTLY YELLING AT THE KIDS SHOWS YOU HAVE NO SELF CONTROL AND IT'S HARMFUL TO THEM  :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:  AND YET STILL, when I speak in my softest voice to them I still get the

OH - KAY OH KAY OH KAY OH KAY condescending behavior 



CAN'T WAIT FOR JAN. 9TH TO THROW THE ENTIRE 6TH GRADE TRAVEL SCHOOL IN THE GARBAGE! 
« Last Edit: November 12, 2018, 07:53:49 AM by Piggydee »

Offline JVPrice

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Re: Students Defend Music Teacher Arrested For Classroom Fight
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2018, 08:00:42 AM »
On the one hand, it's absolutely never ok to hit a student.

On the other, that kid had it coming. Because clearly his parents weren't doing it.

Contradictory post. First you say its wrong to hit a kid then you recommend that his parents should?

I meant in a CP kind of way for the parents.
The World Ends With You

Online Foreverparadise

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Re: Students Defend Music Teacher Arrested For Classroom Fight
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2018, 08:15:51 AM »
I will tell you as a black man and as a music teacher that I am in support of Mr. Riley. No, I do not condone punching a student but on the other hand, that little punk got what he deserved because he has no discipline from his home.
This is the kind of crap I have to deal with teaching on the reservation where I teach. Too many kids are growing up into defiant punks because of useless parents who bring them into the world and let them get away with crap. If we teachers are not allowed to lay a hand on them or cannot send them to the office because the principal is overworked, perhaps we might as well have some military trained security personnel in the school or some real tough disciplinarian specialist deal with these rotten kids.

And besides, I am willing to use my belt on any kids who disrespects me, not in the school but somewhere else.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: It seems there really is a prick in every bunch of roses!  Would taking off your belt to beat a child make you feel like a man?  Especially after he "disrespected" you.... Do you just type what the voices tell you?

Sure it will make me feel like a man to spank a disrespectful kid. It's tough love.

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Students Defend Music Teacher Arrested For Classroom Fight
« Reply #33 on: November 12, 2018, 08:17:51 AM »
You guys are doing it wrong. You should set it up so the kids should be straightening out each other. That's what collective punishment for an individual's mistake is all about.

Offline Piggydee

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Re: Students Defend Music Teacher Arrested For Classroom Fight
« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2018, 08:23:19 AM »
You guys are doing it wrong. You should set it up so the kids should be straightening out each other. That's what collective punishment for an individual's mistake is all about.

Yes at my main school policing each other works.  At my travel school the 6th graders there are all collective a-holes.   One kid doesn't want to listen to the teacher and act up, the other fall in line like dominoes and think that what the one (or 5 )a-hole kids do that is disrespectful to the teacher, is funny. >:( >:( 
« Last Edit: November 12, 2018, 08:45:19 AM by Piggydee »

Online Chinguetti

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Re: Students Defend Music Teacher Arrested For Classroom Fight
« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2018, 08:45:34 AM »
You guys are doing it wrong. You should set it up so the kids should be straightening out each other. That's what collective punishment for an individual's mistake is all about.

This depends entirely on the pecking order in the class, too.

There are many situations where the worst students are the ones with all of the power in the class, and all of the other students are too afraid to stand up to them.

The teacher has to be the ultimate authority that all of the students answer to. You want peer pressure to help you out with classroom management, but you have to have the power to deal with situations when peer pressure is inadequate or is counterproductive, and it's the teacher's responsibility to make sure that the learning environment is both safe and conducive for learning. Kids are immature, and they aren't always going to make the best decisions without both guidance and authority forcing them to. Bullies are gonna bully, and they'll even target teachers if they think they can get away with it.

What this particular teacher did, though, while understandable to many folks, was a loss of control and a demonstration of excessive force. I don't think all of the responsibility falls on him as there appears to be a more to the story (if the system has failed to protect teachers' safeties and has not taken adequate measures against this type of behavior and scenario, therefore making certain people feel like a demonstration of force is the only measure of self-defense left to them, then the failure rests on the system's shoulders), but if the school has a process to remove students like this from the classroom and this teacher decided to skip this process so that he could retaliate, he should probably not be teaching anymore. The problems have affected him too much, and he's demonstrated a lack of judgment and restraint on his own part as a result. He's twice the size and weight of that kid. He should have put him in a restraining hold at most.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2018, 08:55:01 AM by Chinguetti »

Offline Aristocrat

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Re: Students Defend Music Teacher Arrested For Classroom Fight
« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2018, 10:17:15 AM »
The reason there was an altercation is because it was allowed to escalate, or at least, it was given enough time to escalate to that point.
It was allowed to escalate because, quite frankly, the teacher had no idea what to do. He was trying to follow procedure of diffusing the situation with words, but, the procedure itself is flawed.

There are no sides here, students react to and mirror the environment they are placed in and teachers are at the mercy of protocol, meaning they have limitations to how they can influence the class environment. Give a teacher enough time inside an environment where students are out of control and he/she WILL snap, it's inevitable.

True fault lies with the system itself, which is far too ambiguous. Ultimately, teachers need more authority, with a clear and strict protocol of what to do in said situation.

 

Offline Cyanea

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Re: Students Defend Music Teacher Arrested For Classroom Fight
« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2018, 10:28:41 AM »
Please show me where i have admitted to not being a teacher?

You said you were a professor  at a university with 5 months off per year. Changing your story again?

Thats very different to having to control classes of rebellious teenagers.


Quote
To compare the situation of a man who is being assaulted and feels the need to fight back

a) The man was not being assaulted.
b) An adult teacher punching a child in the head should never happen.


So lets summarize your position:

"Application of the harmless cane to an unruly child by a dispassionate third party after parental consent has been given should be banned, but a teacher repeatedly punching a child in the head in a fit of rage is quite ok".


You are clueless.
Catch my drift?

Offline Kayos

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Re: Students Defend Music Teacher Arrested For Classroom Fight
« Reply #38 on: November 12, 2018, 10:36:25 AM »
You guys are doing it wrong. You should set it up so the kids should be straightening out each other. That's what collective punishment for an individual's mistake is all about.

This depends entirely on the pecking order in the class, too.

There are many situations where the worst students are the ones with all of the power in the class, and all of the other students are too afraid to stand up to them.

The teacher has to be the ultimate authority that all of the students answer to. You want peer pressure to help you out with classroom management, but you have to have the power to deal with situations when peer pressure is inadequate or is counterproductive, and it's the teacher's responsibility to make sure that the learning environment is both safe and conducive for learning. Kids are immature, and they aren't always going to make the best decisions without both guidance and authority forcing them to. Bullies are gonna bully, and they'll even target teachers if they think they can get away with it.

What this particular teacher did, though, while understandable to many folks, was a loss of control and a demonstration of excessive force. I don't think all of the responsibility falls on him as there appears to be a more to the story (if the system has failed to protect teachers' safeties and has not taken adequate measures against this type of behavior and scenario, therefore making certain people feel like a demonstration of force is the only measure of self-defense left to them, then the failure rests on the system's shoulders), but if the school has a process to remove students like this from the classroom and this teacher decided to skip this process so that he could retaliate, he should probably not be teaching anymore. The problems have affected him too much, and he's demonstrated a lack of judgment and restraint on his own part as a result. He's twice the size and weight of that kid. He should have put him in a restraining hold at most.

This:
At 1 of my travel schools (middle), I have a class of 17 - 19 students (every week it changes because, a student will transfer because of soccer to and/or from the school).
In this class there are 5 - 6 good students, and 11 - 14 highly disruptive students.
Other classes in this school are smaller, but it's roughly the same ratio of good / bad.
Also, the bad students, are a lot bigger than the good students.
Even the Korean teachers can't control the bad students in this school.
One of the Korean teachers there uses my main school as his travel school once a week too. My boss always says he occasionally mentions how bad they are, and how he is glad that our old principal didn't accept the soccer students here haha.

Offline alexisalex

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Re: Students Defend Music Teacher Arrested For Classroom Fight
« Reply #39 on: November 12, 2018, 10:50:57 AM »
Can someone explain what a teacher is expected to do in this situation?  Or what are teachers taught to do in this situation?