November 18, 2018, 02:41:41 PM


Author Topic: 2018 Midterm Elections Live Thread, With Poll (Non-Americans Welcome!)  (Read 1801 times)

Online gogators!

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Live Thread, With Poll (Non-Americans Welcome!)
« Reply #40 on: November 08, 2018, 08:44:45 PM »
Ted Cruz is such a greasy guy. How are him and Beto the same age? Republicans need "cooler" candidates or it's eventually going to bite them in the butt.
It's pretty hard to be "cool" if your party's policy positions are:
-don't allow women control of their own bodies
-take away pre-existing conditions coverage for sick people
-steal from the poor to give to the rich
-do all in your power to prevent poor and black people from having good access to polling places
-take away marriage rights from gay people

Very not cool.

Yup, not as cool as making vast generalizations about nuanced opinions.

Most republicans are not interested in interfering with gay Marriage. Yes the most traditional  do oppose it, not out of contempt, but because they think marriage is rooted in religion. A good number of these people would rather stateís or churches themselves decide on the legality of it, instead of the federal government.

Steal from the poor? Thatís an awfully strange conclusion considering most Republicans support small government and that other people are not entitled to the fruits of your labor. After seeing perfectly capable people in my family abuse the welfare system for hundreds of thousands of dollars, it really proved to me that in fact the rich and the taxpayers subsidize the poor to never leave poverty status.

Both parties are to blame for the current healthcare system. Costs are so high because itís heavily regulated and subsidized. The insurance companies and medical professionals are the ultimate beneficiaries. A deregulated  market or universal system are potently better than what we have.

And as for the abortion issue, you can say itís a womanís choice, I understand the stance, but to then request all taxpayers to subsidize abortions on demand, how does anyone with any nerve support that? Thatís so wrong. And at what point do we consider the fetus, a life worth protecting? Itís literally kicking at month 3.
Repugnicans are trump's party now. White nationalism is their credo, pure and simple.

Online Mr C

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Live Thread, With Poll (Non-Americans Welcome!)
« Reply #41 on: November 08, 2018, 09:36:55 PM »
Ted Cruz is such a greasy guy. How are him and Beto the same age? Republicans need "cooler" candidates or it's eventually going to bite them in the butt.
It's pretty hard to be "cool" if your party's policy positions are:
-don't allow women control of their own bodies
-take away pre-existing conditions coverage for sick people
-steal from the poor to give to the rich
-do all in your power to prevent poor and black people from having good access to polling places
-take away marriage rights from gay people

Very not cool.

Yup, not as cool as making vast generalizations about nuanced opinions.

Most republicans are not interested in interfering with gay Marriage. Yes the most traditional  do oppose it, not out of contempt, but because they think marriage is rooted in religion. A good number of these people would rather stateís or churches themselves decide on the legality of it, instead of the federal government.

Steal from the poor? Thatís an awfully strange conclusion considering most Republicans support small government and that other people are not entitled to the fruits of your labor. After seeing perfectly capable people in my family abuse the welfare system for hundreds of thousands of dollars, it really proved to me that in fact the rich and the taxpayers subsidize the poor to never leave poverty status.

Both parties are to blame for the current healthcare system. Costs are so high because itís heavily regulated and subsidized. The insurance companies and medical professionals are the ultimate beneficiaries. A deregulated  market or universal system are potently better than what we have.

And as for the abortion issue, you can say itís a womanís choice, I understand the stance, but to then request all taxpayers to subsidize abortions on demand, how does anyone with any nerve support that? Thatís so wrong. And at what point do we consider the fetus, a life worth protecting? Itís literally kicking at month 3.
Not gonna respond to all this but a couple of things:
-"other people are not entitled to the fruits of your labor" is an "awfully strange" way of describing taxation if, y'know, your "labor" involves say, getting on a public road (to get to work, or maybe for your employees to get to work); having a police department that tries to protect your "fruits";  depending on a workforce that has been educated to the extent they are (hopefully) employable; benefitting from a national armed force to defend your nation and its land.  You want that to be free?

No, I doubt you do.  But taxes should be scaled according to the benefits you gain from it: an employer with dozens or thousands of employees should pay not just for their share of, say, roads, but also a portion of their employees' needs for roads; subsidized care benefits employers more than employees, so they should pay a greater load of taxes; rich neighborhoods get better, more frequent policing than poor neighborhoods--that makes sense as there is a greater likelihood of burglary etc--and therefore they should pay more for it. Etc, etc.

And yet, working class and middle class people routinely pay more than their share ("/Trump/ didn't pay any federal tax." "That makes me smart."), and after the massive cut in this Congress almost entirely for corporations and the 1% which ballooned the deficit, the Republicans want to cut "entitlements" like Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid, which working and middle class Americans have paid in on and to which they are therefore "entitled", to make up the difference.

-two key goals of Republicans wrt SCOTUS have been minority/gay/immigrant rights and abortion, and they were willing to engage in the absurd Merrick Garland farce to get their way.  Don't tell me that's only "the most traditional", it's been the GOP policy since I can remember, and it ain't changing anytime soon.

-abortion on demand cannot be subsidized by government funds, which has been true since the Hyde Amendment back in the 1970s.  It has had carve-outs for rape, incest and life of the mother, and has occasionally included/excluded others.  But never mind the red herring of federal money, the GOP stance has been to make abortion illegal, period.  IE, overturn Roe v Wade.  I'm always saddened when yet another "pro-life" GOP congressman gets caught urging his mistress to get an abortion. But doesn't want anyone else to.

-I'm not sure how gaming the system for "hundreds of thousands of dollars" has kept your family poor.  But we do know that the huge majority of people who use the "safety net" don't like doing it, and get off of it as soon as possible.  And you can thank the Clinton administration for making a big difference here by expanding education and retraining programs to get people back to work.

We also know that the GOP is fine with chronically unemployed folks abusing alcohol to numb their pain, but should someone choose a doobie instead, they want to refuse them services.

Nuanced positions, indeed.  Self-serving, hypocritical and elitist, I would have said.

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Live Thread, With Poll (Non-Americans Welcome!)
« Reply #42 on: November 09, 2018, 01:12:26 AM »
A conservative SCOTUS banning gay marriage and abortion is about as likely as a liberal SCOTUS banning guns.

I'd also like to point out that while many of the people WE know in the world of college educated middle class types would want to get off benefits, if you step outside that zone and go into the high school drop-out class of people, subsistence on benefits and living off of them is a way of life for many.

Online gogators!

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Live Thread, With Poll (Non-Americans Welcome!)
« Reply #43 on: November 09, 2018, 03:31:04 AM »
A conservative SCOTUS banning gay marriage and abortion is about as likely as a liberal SCOTUS banning guns.

I'd also like to point out that while many of the people WE know in the world of college educated middle class types would want to get off benefits, if you step outside that zone and go into the high school drop-out class of people, subsistence on benefits and living off of them is a way of life for many.
They can rule in such a way that empowers the states to do so, however, mr. self-proclaimed legal expert.

Online Mr C

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Live Thread, With Poll (Non-Americans Welcome!)
« Reply #44 on: November 09, 2018, 07:39:02 AM »
A conservative SCOTUS banning gay marriage and abortion is about as likely as a liberal SCOTUS banning guns.

That's right. Just like "the right to keep and bear arms", marriage rights (gay and straight) and abortion are specifically ennumerated in the US Constitution.

*quickly checks online*

Hey, wait a minute.  That's total BS.  Gun rights and abortion/marriage cannot be compared at all!  You tricked me!  False equivalence yet again!  When will I ever learn?!

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Live Thread, With Poll (Non-Americans Welcome!)
« Reply #45 on: November 09, 2018, 08:20:17 AM »
A conservative SCOTUS banning gay marriage and abortion is about as likely as a liberal SCOTUS banning guns.

That's right. Just like "the right to keep and bear arms", marriage rights (gay and straight) and abortion are specifically ennumerated in the US Constitution.

*quickly checks online*

Hey, wait a minute.  That's total BS.  Gun rights and abortion/marriage cannot be compared at all!  You tricked me!  False equivalence yet again!  When will I ever learn?!

They won't take it up. Our courts are political and the GOP knows it would be stirring up the hornets nest to allow outright bans, same as Dems with guns.

Relax. No one is going to take our precious abortions or guns or weed away.

Offline hangook77

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Live Thread, With Poll (Non-Americans Welcome!)
« Reply #46 on: November 09, 2018, 09:17:24 AM »
Ted Cruz is such a greasy guy. How are him and Beto the same age? Republicans need "cooler" candidates or it's eventually going to bite them in the butt.
It's pretty hard to be "cool" if your party's policy positions are:
-don't allow women control of their own bodies
-take away pre-existing conditions coverage for sick people
-steal from the poor to give to the rich
-do all in your power to prevent poor and black people from having good access to polling places
-take away marriage rights from gay people

Very not cool.

Yup, not as cool as making vast generalizations about nuanced opinions.

Most republicans are not interested in interfering with gay Marriage. Yes the most traditional  do oppose it, not out of contempt, but because they think marriage is rooted in religion. A good number of these people would rather stateís or churches themselves decide on the legality of it, instead of the federal government.

Steal from the poor? Thatís an awfully strange conclusion considering most Republicans support small government and that other people are not entitled to the fruits of your labor. After seeing perfectly capable people in my family abuse the welfare system for hundreds of thousands of dollars, it really proved to me that in fact the rich and the taxpayers subsidize the poor to never leave poverty status.

Both parties are to blame for the current healthcare system. Costs are so high because itís heavily regulated and subsidized. The insurance companies and medical professionals are the ultimate beneficiaries. A deregulated  market or universal system are potently better than what we have.

And as for the abortion issue, you can say itís a womanís choice, I understand the stance, but to then request all taxpayers to subsidize abortions on demand, how does anyone with any nerve support that? Thatís so wrong. And at what point do we consider the fetus, a life worth protecting? Itís literally kicking at month 3.
Repugnicans are trump's party now. White nationalism is their credo, pure and simple.

White Nationalism?  Just like fake news CNN.  Trump said nationalist not white nationalist.  Nationalist means being patriotic about your country and sticking up for it including fighting back against bad trade deals.  That means a citizen of any race can be a nationalist.  A white nationalist means that a person only want a white race.  A big difference between the two. 

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Live Thread, With Poll (Non-Americans Welcome!)
« Reply #47 on: November 09, 2018, 09:29:43 AM »
Amazing that 30% of Latinos, 25% Asians, 20% of Jews, and 10% of blacks have somehow missed this.

Hint: If 75% of people say they see a monster. Bet on the 25% who say they don't. Cognitive science suggests they are much more likely to be right.

Trump the White Nationalist...who strongly supports Israel and has Jewish grandchildren. Ok.

Trump, for better or worse, is wayyyy more motivated by green and gold than black and whire.

Online Mr C

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Live Thread, With Poll (Non-Americans Welcome!)
« Reply #48 on: November 09, 2018, 09:44:27 AM »
Amazing that 30% of Latinos, 25% Asians, 20% of Jews, and 10% of blacks have somehow missed this.

Hint: If 75% of people say they see a monster. Bet on the 25% who say they don't. Cognitive science suggests they are much more likely to be right.
Monsters aren't real.  As usual, bad example from The Man That Couldn't Argue Straight.
Quote
Trump the White Nationalist...who strongly supports Israel and has Jewish grandchildren. Ok.
That, again, is irrelevant.  I grew up a Southern Baptist, and those in my community strongly supported the State of Israel.  However, they didn't like "the Jews" because "the Jews" killed Jesus.

And he wouldn't have Jewish grandchildren except that his WASP daughter converted.  Jewry is matrilineal.

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Live Thread, With Poll (Non-Americans Welcome!)
« Reply #49 on: November 09, 2018, 10:01:28 AM »
Ted Cruz is such a greasy guy. How are him and Beto the same age? Republicans need "cooler" candidates or it's eventually going to bite them in the butt.
It's pretty hard to be "cool" if your party's policy positions are:
-don't allow women control of their own bodies
-take away pre-existing conditions coverage for sick people
-steal from the poor to give to the rich
-do all in your power to prevent poor and black people from having good access to polling places
-take away marriage rights from gay people

Very not cool.

Yup, not as cool as making vast generalizations about nuanced opinions.

Most republicans are not interested in interfering with gay Marriage. Yes the most traditional  do oppose it, not out of contempt, but because they think marriage is rooted in religion. A good number of these people would rather stateís or churches themselves decide on the legality of it, instead of the federal government.

Steal from the poor? Thatís an awfully strange conclusion considering most Republicans support small government and that other people are not entitled to the fruits of your labor. After seeing perfectly capable people in my family abuse the welfare system for hundreds of thousands of dollars, it really proved to me that in fact the rich and the taxpayers subsidize the poor to never leave poverty status.

Both parties are to blame for the current healthcare system. Costs are so high because itís heavily regulated and subsidized. The insurance companies and medical professionals are the ultimate beneficiaries. A deregulated  market or universal system are potently better than what we have.

And as for the abortion issue, you can say itís a womanís choice, I understand the stance, but to then request all taxpayers to subsidize abortions on demand, how does anyone with any nerve support that? Thatís so wrong. And at what point do we consider the fetus, a life worth protecting? Itís literally kicking at month 3.
Repugnicans are trump's party now. White nationalism is their credo, pure and simple.

White Nationalism?  Just like fake news CNN.  Trump said nationalist not white nationalist.  Nationalist means being patriotic about your country and sticking up for it including fighting back against bad trade deals.  That means a citizen of any race can be a nationalist.  A white nationalist means that a person only want a white race.  A big difference between the two.

Yeah, white nationalism.  Your definition either willingly denies or woefully ignores the American historical connotations regarding the word "nationalist."  It's taboo to use the word nationalist, which is why Americans refer to themselves as "patriots" and abide by "patriotism" as opposed to nationalist/nationalism.  Additionally, patriotism adheres to American exceptionalism and the idea that America's greatness is unique and different because of its democratic values.  The only Americans who currently self-identify as "nationalists" are indeed white-nationalists, which is why it's offensive and plain un-American to even consider saying nationalist instead of patriot. Ya dig?  Cool cool, cool. And furthermore:

When Trump uses "nationalist," he not only undermines American exceptionalism, he throws red meat to his racist base.  And everyone knows it, so cut the bulls*t.

Truth bombs: engaged. Pew, pew.  :afro:

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Live Thread, With Poll (Non-Americans Welcome!)
« Reply #50 on: November 09, 2018, 10:37:07 AM »
Monsters aren't real.  As usual, bad example from The Man That Couldn't Argue Straight.
That is my point. If you think you see a monster, odds are the people who are saying "I don't see a monster" are more likely to be right. This is not always the case, but it is much more often than not. This is why I have also frequently disagreed with others on here about George Soros. They think he's some kind of monster who controls the world. I don't see it. I see another rich political donor like Sheldon Adelson or the Koch brothers.

The accusations are that Trump is a Russian pawn and narcissist who doesn't listen to anyone, white supremacist, who supports David Duke and the KKK and kisses Bibi Netanyahu's butt, has dementia yet manages to secretly dog whistle to people, and lies about everything (but is telling the truth about all the negative stuff YOU believe he is telling the truth about). If that is what you think, which is what the left thinks, then it should be blindingly obvious that the people who think that are having the hallucination and imagining they see a monster. If you believe in that many contradictory characteristics in one person, you are in freak-out mode where you believe in anything because your panic instincts have been tripped. It's like George Soros the Jewish Overlord/Muslim Sympathizer who was a Nazi and wants to impose Communism. There's no coherent thought to any of it.

Quote
That, again, is irrelevant.  I grew up a Southern Baptist, and those in my community strongly supported the State of Israel.  However, they didn't like "the Jews" because "the Jews" killed Jesus.

And he wouldn't have Jewish grandchildren except that his WASP daughter converted.  Jewry is matrilineal.
This being the daughter of his that he always brags about, married to his Jewish son-in-law who ran large chunks of his campaign? Boy, nothing sounds more white nationalist and anti-Semitic than that.

Do you even go to any Trump supporter/RW sites? Do you know how much love minority conservatives get? And it goes beyond that. Those sites will frequently post stories about black people doing charitable works, or thanking cops, or some twitter vid of a black guy helping an old lady, or a black person defending themselves in a robbery, or minority LEOs/military being killed in the line of duty. The comments are overwhelming supportive and there is genuine support and admiration.

I think you need to get out of your bubble and stop just listening to group think that makes caricatures of people.  Yes there are some racists on the right and they will post on those sites. Yes people can say really nice things about a black LEO and say some pretty ugly things about black people on welfare, but white nationalist? That's really on the fringes and if you think it's mainstream, again you are hallucinating. Might as well be terrified of the Yellow Peril or the barbarian horde sweeping through.

Offline sh9wntm

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Live Thread, With Poll (Non-Americans Welcome!)
« Reply #51 on: November 09, 2018, 10:42:22 AM »

 getting on a public road (to get to work, or maybe for your employees to get to work); having a police department that tries to protect your "fruits";  depending on a workforce that has been educated to the extent they are (hopefully) employable; benefitting from a national armed force to defend your nation and its land.  You want that to be free?

These things are not "free". Outside of national highways, police budgets and local roads are state level taxes, which are <1% of the budget. Conservatives believe the primary function of government is to protect your rights and provide a foundation for free enterprise. This means limited spending, not zero spending. NGO's, charity, communities, families, and private enterprise can fill the difference. And if you're skeptical of this, look at the popularity of things like GoFundMe. Christine Ford obviously found people who backed her cause.   


And yet, working class and middle class people routinely pay more than their share ("/Trump/ didn't pay any federal tax." "That makes me smart."), and after the massive cut in this Congress almost entirely for corporations and the 1% which ballooned the deficit, the Republicans want to cut "entitlements" like Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid, which working and middle class Americans have paid in on and to which they are therefore "entitled", to make up the difference.

You realize the top 20% of American earners fund 88% of all taxes. Yah, I say they pay their fair share considering most of the benefits are not experienced by them. Trump tax planned help out families and yes, businesses by cutting corporate taxes. Scandinavian socialist paradises (Norway and Sweden) have some of the lowest corporate tax rates in the world, which allows for more competition and investment. Look it up. The U.S previously had one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, which cripples small business. Large corporations vote and support democrats because they can pay high taxes and simultaneously choke out the competition to create monopolies.

Entitlements are a sad story in mismanagement of funds. If these payments went to personal savings accounts, the baby boomers would have their contributions. A large population supported a large welfare program for a smaller number of retired people. Now the workers want to retire and the fund is dry, with another comparatively smaller working class trying to support them. Medicare is projected to be insolvent soon. Throwing more money at it won't help.

  Don't tell me that's only "the most traditional", it's been the GOP policy since I can remember, and it ain't changing anytime soon.

The opinion on gay marriage is changing rapidly. Since you can remember? Before 2010, most Americans were against gay marriage. Look at the charts. In the 2000's and before, most democrats were against it. And as for minority rights, Republicans were the ones behind much of the civil rights acts in the 60's.

abortion on demand cannot be subsidized by government funds, which has been true since the Hyde Amendment back in the 1970s.

Federal funding to planned parenthood frees up other resources that are, in turn, used to provide abortions.  It is an accounting gimmick. Also, the Hyde Amendment only applies at the federal level. Forbes estimates 24% of all abortion costs are taxpayer subsidized.

 
I'm not sure how gaming the system for "hundreds of thousands of dollars" has kept your family poor.  But we do know that the huge majority of people who use the "safety net" don't like doing it, and get off of it as soon as possible. 

Nuanced positions, indeed.  Self-serving, hypocritical and elitist, I would have said.

Again, it's fundamentally not the government's job to give welfare to people. This should be addressed in closer circles. It's not sustainable at the federal level. And if you're receiving checks from the government, you're not exactly thrilled about changing to remove that income source. Help is not always helpful when it reinforces addictive behavior.

Nice finishing touch there. You seem really tolerant of people with different political views.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 10:44:33 AM by sh9wntm »

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Live Thread, With Poll (Non-Americans Welcome!)
« Reply #52 on: November 09, 2018, 10:50:18 AM »
Yeah, white nationalism.  Your definition either willingly denies or woefully ignores the American historical connotations regarding the word "nationalist."  It's taboo to use the word nationalist, which is why Americans refer to themselves as "patriots" and abide by "patriotism" as opposed to nationalist/nationalism.  Additionally, patriotism adheres to American exceptionalism and the idea that America's greatness is unique and different because of its democratic values.  The only Americans who currently self-identify as "nationalists" are indeed white-nationalists, which is why it's offensive and plain un-American to even consider saying nationalist instead of patriot. Ya dig?  Cool cool, cool. And furthermore:

When Trump uses "nationalist," he not only undermines American exceptionalism, he throws red meat to his racist base.  And everyone knows it, so cut the bulls*t.

Truth bombs: engaged. Pew, pew.  :afro:
I disagree. There are indications that the same impulses that come into play with nationalism are also involved in sports fandom. The sort of tribalist, loyalty-based thinking that is common among obsessive fans. Sports of course, being substitutes for conflict/war/national instincts. However, sports has been one of the most remarkable vehicles for social change in terms of race. It's pretty much a given that fans of a team, even those who are deeply racist, if they have to choose between a black player on their sports team and a white player on an opposing team, they are much more likely to side with the player on their own team, regardless of their race.

What does this mean? It means that nationalism can take on a character that does NOT involve race. While I agree that nationalism and race are frequently tied together and that is indeed the norm, just because it is the norm does not mean that they are always paired. In particular, new world countries such as the USA or Brazil could be much more likely to have this sort of nationalism rather than traditional ethnic nationalism. A similar phenomenon would be the rise of the shared Islamic identity we have seen emerge and the multiethnic character of many Islamic movements ranging from reformist-liberal to traditionalist to extremist. The Catholic Church also has some elements of this.

Online zola

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Live Thread, With Poll (Non-Americans Welcome!)
« Reply #53 on: November 09, 2018, 10:57:28 AM »
You realize the top 20% of American earners fund 88% of all taxes. Yah, I say they pay their fair share considering most of the benefits are not experienced by them.

You realize that top 20% of American earners own 86% of all wealth in the country?
Kpip! - Martin 2018

Offline sh9wntm

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Live Thread, With Poll (Non-Americans Welcome!)
« Reply #54 on: November 09, 2018, 12:14:25 PM »
You realize the top 20% of American earners fund 88% of all taxes. Yah, I say they pay their fair share considering most of the benefits are not experienced by them.

You realize that top 20% of American earners own 86% of all wealth in the country?

Yes, and there's really nothing wrong with that. Wealth is created and maintained. You can only feasibly steal wealth from people who have wealth.

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Live Thread, With Poll (Non-Americans Welcome!)
« Reply #55 on: November 09, 2018, 12:27:34 PM »
You realize the top 20% of American earners fund 88% of all taxes. Yah, I say they pay their fair share considering most of the benefits are not experienced by them.

You realize that top 20% of American earners own 86% of all wealth in the country?

Yes, and there's really nothing wrong with that. Wealth is created and maintained. You can only feasibly steal wealth from people who have wealth.

Uh no. Here's a video while I search for better data:

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Live Thread, With Poll (Non-Americans Welcome!)
« Reply #56 on: November 09, 2018, 01:25:50 PM »
Looks like Arizona Senate race is swinging to the Dems and the Florida Senate and Governor races are heading to recounts. Georgia is still counting the votes in the Governor race.

Offline sh9wntm

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Live Thread, With Poll (Non-Americans Welcome!)
« Reply #57 on: November 09, 2018, 01:39:39 PM »
You realize the top 20% of American earners fund 88% of all taxes. Yah, I say they pay their fair share considering most of the benefits are not experienced by them.

You realize that top 20% of American earners own 86% of all wealth in the country?

Yes, and there's really nothing wrong with that. Wealth is created and maintained. You can only feasibly steal wealth from people who have wealth.

Uh no. Here's a video while I search for better data:



 My point is there isn't anything indicating the majority of people amass their wealth unfairly, by exploiting or stealing. A small minority of people mastermind the things that are used by thousands or millions of people while also creating a financial stream to employ people. A CEO may out earn everyone 100-500x, but nothing suggests that's undeserved if people agree to buy their products and work for mutually agreeable wages.

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Live Thread, With Poll (Non-Americans Welcome!)
« Reply #58 on: November 09, 2018, 01:56:52 PM »
You realize the top 20% of American earners fund 88% of all taxes. Yah, I say they pay their fair share considering most of the benefits are not experienced by them.

You realize that top 20% of American earners own 86% of all wealth in the country?

Yes, and there's really nothing wrong with that. Wealth is created and maintained. You can only feasibly steal wealth from people who have wealth.

Uh no. Here's a video while I search for better data:



My point is there isn't anything indicating the majority of people amass their wealth unfairly, by exploiting or stealing. A small minority of people mastermind the things that are used by thousands or millions of people while also creating a financial stream to employ people. A CEO may out earn everyone 100-500x, but nothing suggests that's undeserved if people agree to buy their products and work for mutually agreeable wages.

That is seriously laughable, well played sir.

Where to start; slavery, outsourcing to countries with lax/no environmental  law, countries with no organized labor or no labor laws, offshore banking to avoid taxes, automation (arguable), not even to mention the role wealth plays in manipulation of laws being implemented or changed to suit the needs of business, banana republics overthrowing democratically elected officials throughout Central and South America and Asia. I mean common on dude I know its Friday but at least try.

Offline sh9wntm

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Live Thread, With Poll (Non-Americans Welcome!)
« Reply #59 on: November 09, 2018, 03:00:51 PM »

That is seriously laughable, well played sir.

Where to start; slavery, outsourcing to countries with lax/no environmental  law, countries with no organized labor or no labor laws, offshore banking to avoid taxes, automation (arguable), not even to mention the role wealth plays in manipulation of laws being implemented or changed to suit the needs of business, banana republics overthrowing democratically elected officials throughout Central and South America and Asia. I mean common on dude I know its Friday but at least try.


We can agree that we need to remove tax loopholes and offshore banking. We can agree for-profit prisons are slavery and morally wrong. It's evident big money interests do have a large effect on policy, but isn't this evidence that the power of bureaucrats should be limited, instead of expanded? For outsourcing, maybe factory workers in Indonesia make $4 a day, but that actually buys quite a bit in local circles. If it's the highest paying job they can find, is it wrong to drive the factory out?

I'll stand by my original statement, the majority of American companies create wealth fairly.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 03:04:10 PM by sh9wntm »