March 25, 2019, 05:04:23 AM


Author Topic: Ford-Kavanaugh Hearing  (Read 8297 times)

Offline Mr C

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Re: Ford-Kavanaugh Hearing
« Reply #100 on: October 02, 2018, 08:42:21 AM »
You know, there's something I guess I don't understand here.  I asked this before, but didn't much traction (well, any if you discount DMT's bizarre non sequiturs).

Can you picture a senator weighing out the percentages of who/what they believe, which is what they're going to do unless the FBI comes back with something definitive: "I'm 99% sure we're putting a sexual predator on the Supreme Court, because I would have to be 100% to say No."

Change the percentages as you like.  70%? 84.49%? Most Americans (in the last polls I read) believe Ford. Probably because Kavanaugh is clearly a liar: Devil's Triangle, Ralph Club, Renate Club, etc.

I'm a member of the "Get a Clue" Club.

Yup, looking through someone's high school yearbook jokes seems like a productive way to determine if they'll develop to be a sexual predator. I guess the thousands of inappropriate jokes in adolescent yearbooks are indications that they're all also secretly rapists. Just assume the worst and send them to the guillotine.

Witch hunts are the hip thing to do in 2018.
So, I gather you're <10%. ...

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Ford-Kavanaugh Hearing
« Reply #101 on: October 02, 2018, 09:07:26 AM »
Okay, two things I'm starting to seriously wonder-

1) Christie Blasey Ford has been COMPLETELY scrubbed from the internet. Nothing on her turns up prior to this story. Now, I understand her scrubbing her social media and some information that might reveal her address and so on, but she is NOWHERE to be found. Do a google search with the time range and NOTHING turns up.

I felt Ford was credible, but I really have to wonder about this

2) In her testimony she says she says

Quote
"Early in the evening, I went up a very narrow set of stairs leading from the living room to a second floor to use the restroom. When I got to the top of the stairs, I was pushed from behind into a bedroom across from the bathroom."

She didn't notice two deeply inebriated individuals following her up the stairs while she went to use the restroom?

Now, it certainly is possible she didn't, but that doesn't strike me as very probable.

Quote
I was pushed from behind into a bedroom across from the bathroom

If she was going to use the bathroom AND didn't notice them, she would have walked up the stairs and turned towards the bathroom. How could she be pushed from behind into a bedroom across from the bathroom?

Furthermore, she doesn't mention falling down, bumping anything or anything related to a loss of balance that would have been caused by a forceful push. Being surprised pushed usually results in the person stumbling- either it's not violent enough to move them or it causes them to seriously stumble. The fact that she managed not to be pushed into a wall or doorway is rather good fortune.

Offline Mr C

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Re: Ford-Kavanaugh Hearing
« Reply #102 on: October 02, 2018, 09:40:51 AM »
Okay, two things I'm starting to seriously wonder-

1) Christie Blasey Ford has been COMPLETELY scrubbed from the internet. Nothing on her turns up prior to this story. Now, I understand her scrubbing her social media and some information that might reveal her address and so on, but she is NOWHERE to be found. Do a google search with the time range and NOTHING turns up.

I felt Ford was credible, but I really have to wonder about this


I'm sure the death threats against her andd her family have nothing to do this with, huh?

Join the Get a Clue Club, pal.

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Ford-Kavanaugh Hearing
« Reply #103 on: October 02, 2018, 09:48:11 AM »
I'm sure the death threats against her andd her family have nothing to do this with, huh?

Join the Get a Clue Club, pal.
Like I said, I'm not talking about her social media.

I'm talking about the fact that there isn't ANYTHING about her. She isn't listed on any 3rd party websites as having been a guest speaker or other academic work, and so on. I  would understand if she was a waitress or something, but it is a bit odd for a professor.

I did find one research article on Google Scholar, but that's about it.

Offline Andyman

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Re: Ford-Kavanaugh Hearing
« Reply #104 on: October 02, 2018, 10:30:34 AM »
Just found this through an EBSCO psychology database. I'm logged in through a university account, so I don't know if it's publicly accessible. Sorry about the ugly formatting.

Quote
1.
 

Detecting critical decision points in psychotherapy and psychotherapy + medication for chronic depression.

Full Text Available





Academic Journal
 Steidtmann, Dana; Manber, Rachel; Blasey, Christine; Markowitz, John C.; Klein, Daniel N.; Rothbaum, Barbara O.; Thase, Michael E.; Kocsis, James H.; Arnow, Bruce A.; Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, Vol 81(5), Oct, 2013 pp. 783-792. Publisher: American Psychological Association; [Journal Article]
Subjects: Major Depression; Psychopharmacology; Psychotherapy; Adulthood (18 yrs & older); Young Adulthood (18-29 yrs); Thirties (30-39 yrs); Middle Age (40-64 yrs); Aged (65 yrs & older); Male; Female



2.
 

The relationship between the therapeutic alliance and treatment outcome in two distinct psychotherapies for chronic depression.

Full Text Available





Academic Journal
 Arnow, Bruce A.; Steidtmann, Dana; Blasey, Christine; Manber, Rachel; Constantino, Michael J.; Klein, Daniel N.; Markowitz, John C.; Rothbaum, Barbara O.; Thase, Michael E.; Fisher, Aaron J.; Kocsis, James H.; Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, Vol 81(4), Aug, 2013 pp. 627-638. Publisher: American Psychological Association; [Journal Article]
Subjects: Major Depression; Psychotherapy; Therapeutic Alliance; Treatment Outcomes; Adulthood (18 yrs & older); Young Adulthood (18-29 yrs); Thirties (30-39 yrs); Middle Age (40-64 yrs); Aged (65 yrs & older); Male; Female



3.
 

The Association Between Patient Characteristics and the Therapeutic Alliance in Cognitive-Behavioral and Interpersonal Therapy for Bulimia Nervosa.

Full Text Available





Academic Journal
 Constantino, Michael J.; Arnow, Bruce A.; Blasey, Christine; Agras, W. Stewart; Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, Vol 73(2), Apr, 2005 pp. 203-211. Publisher: American Psychological Association; [Journal Article]
Subjects: Bulimia; Client Characteristics; Cognitive Behavior Therapy; Interpersonal Psychotherapy; Therapeutic Alliance; Adulthood (18 yrs & older); Female



4.
 

Therapeutic Reactance as a Predictor of Outcome in the Treatment of Chronic Depression.

Full Text Available





Academic Journal
 Arnow, Bruce A.; Manber, Rachel; Blasey, Christine; Klein, Daniel N.; Blalock, Janice A.; Markowitz, John C.; Rothbaum, Barbara O.; Rush, A. John; Thase, Michael E.; Riso, Lawrence P.; Vivian, Dina; McCullough, James P. Jr.; Keller, Martin B.; Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, Vol 71(6), Dec, 2003 pp. 1025-1035. Publisher: American Psychological Association; [Journal Article]
Subjects: Major Depression; Psychological Reactance; Therapeutic Alliance; Treatment Outcomes; Treatment; Adulthood (18 yrs & older); Young Adulthood (18-29 yrs); Thirties (30-39 yrs); Middle Age (40-64 yrs); Aged (65 yrs & older); Male; Female



5.
 

Posttraumatic Growth Following the Terrorist Attacks of September 11, 2001: Cognitive, Coping, and Trauma Symptom Predictors in an Internet Convenience Sample.

Full Text Available





Academic Journal
 Butler, Lisa D.; Blasey, Christine M.; Garlan, Robert W.; McCaslin, Shannon E.; Azarow, Jay; Chen, Xin-Hua; Desjardins, Juliette C.; DiMiceli, Sue; Seagraves, David A.; Hastings, T. Andrew; Kraemer, Helena C.; Spiegel, David; Traumatology, Vol 11(4), Dec, 2005 Special Issue: Posttraumatic Growth. pp. 247-267. Publisher: Academy of Traumatology; [Journal Article]
Subjects: Coping Behavior; Emotional Trauma; Human Development; Terrorism; World View; Adulthood (18 yrs & older); Young Adulthood (18-29 yrs); Thirties (30-39 yrs); Middle Age (40-64 yrs); Aged (65 yrs & older); Male; Female


Offline Andyman

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Re: Ford-Kavanaugh Hearing
« Reply #105 on: October 02, 2018, 10:32:15 AM »

Offline Andyman

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Re: Ford-Kavanaugh Hearing
« Reply #106 on: October 02, 2018, 10:35:23 AM »
Go to the "Resarch" tab on her ResearchGate profile.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Christine_Blasey

Offline Mr C

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Re: Ford-Kavanaugh Hearing
« Reply #107 on: October 02, 2018, 10:39:00 AM »
And did you look at Wikipedia?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Blasey_Ford#Selected_works

You probably just made all that up.  DeMartino said "there isn't ANYTHING" and "she's been COMPLETELY scrubbed" and it's certainly not as if he is a serial fabricator.

Offline sh9wntm

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Re: Ford-Kavanaugh Hearing
« Reply #108 on: October 02, 2018, 10:47:30 AM »

So, I gather you're <10%. ...

The burden of proof is on the accuser. If the accuser cannot provide sufficient evidence, you cannot progress. Our ancestors realized it is better to let a guilty man walk than it is to falsely convict an innocent man. Because truth is the highest maxim. By letting the man walk, there is still a chance that the truth may rear its head later, rather than make false presuppositions.

This is all goes to show how easily people are emotionally manipulated by the mob to stray from the fundamental tenants of fairness.

Offline Savant

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Re: Ford-Kavanaugh Hearing
« Reply #109 on: October 02, 2018, 11:00:18 AM »
And did you look at Wikipedia?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Blasey_Ford#Selected_works

You probably just made all that up.  DeMartino said "there isn't ANYTHING" and "she's been COMPLETELY scrubbed" and it's certainly not as if he is a serial fabricator.

Think he watched "Eraser" last night and now he's in some sort of dream state.

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Ford-Kavanaugh Hearing
« Reply #110 on: October 02, 2018, 11:00:31 AM »
And did you look at Wikipedia?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Blasey_Ford#Selected_works

You probably just made all that up.  DeMartino said "there isn't ANYTHING" and "she's been COMPLETELY scrubbed" and it's certainly not as if he is a serial fabricator.

Nah, I used Google for pre-July and then Google Scholar, where like I said, I found the one article. I assume there's other scholarly papers, but I'm more interested in non-published works by her, like video of her giving a lecture or something.

Anyways, this is probably a pointless rabbit hole, so I'll let it go. But as I said, I don't blame her for scrubbing social media. Obviously that is a very sensible precaution given the crazies out there.

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Ford-Kavanaugh Hearing
« Reply #111 on: October 02, 2018, 11:01:26 AM »

Think he watched "Eraser" last night and now he's in some sort of dream state.
Dude, I mentioned the article I found on google scholar...

Offline Andyman

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Re: Ford-Kavanaugh Hearing
« Reply #112 on: October 02, 2018, 11:01:54 AM »

So, I gather you're <10%. ...

The burden of proof is on the accuser. If the accuser cannot provide sufficient evidence, you cannot progress. Our ancestors realized it is better to let a guilty man walk than it is to falsely convict an innocent man. Because truth is the highest maxim. By letting the man walk, there is still a chance that the truth may rear its head later, rather than make false presuppositions.

This is all goes to show how easily people are emotionally manipulated by the mob to stray from the fundamental tenants of fairness.

Once again, it's not a criminal trial - it's a job interview. He's not entitled to the job, and if there are legitimate doubts about his character or concerns about his willingness to cover up abuse and / or tell the truth in a sworn testimony, then it's incumbent upon public servants to find someone better suited to the position.

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Re: Ford-Kavanaugh Hearing
« Reply #113 on: October 02, 2018, 11:04:36 AM »
Okay, two things I'm starting to seriously wonder-

1) Christie Blasey Ford has been COMPLETELY scrubbed from the internet. Nothing on her turns up prior to this story. Now, I understand her scrubbing her social media and some information that might reveal her address and so on, but she is NOWHERE to be found. Do a google search with the time range and NOTHING turns up.

I felt Ford was credible, but I really have to wonder about this

2) In her testimony she says she says

Quote
"Early in the evening, I went up a very narrow set of stairs leading from the living room to a second floor to use the restroom. When I got to the top of the stairs, I was pushed from behind into a bedroom across from the bathroom."

She didn't notice two deeply inebriated individuals following her up the stairs while she went to use the restroom?

Now, it certainly is possible she didn't, but that doesn't strike me as very probable.

Quote
I was pushed from behind into a bedroom across from the bathroom

If she was going to use the bathroom AND didn't notice them, she would have walked up the stairs and turned towards the bathroom. How could she be pushed from behind into a bedroom across from the bathroom?

Furthermore, she doesn't mention falling down, bumping anything or anything related to a loss of balance that would have been caused by a forceful push. Being surprised pushed usually results in the person stumbling- either it's not violent enough to move them or it causes them to seriously stumble. The fact that she managed not to be pushed into a wall or doorway is rather good fortune.

If she didn't know the house, she may have gone to the wrong room.  Also if loud music was playing, she may not have heard someone following her.  If someone had a malicious intent, they would have tread lightly when climbing the stairs. If someobe attempted to rape me, that would be all i was focussing on.

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Ford-Kavanaugh Hearing
« Reply #114 on: October 02, 2018, 11:06:51 AM »
If she didn't know the house, she may have gone to the wrong room. 
That's a pretty good explanation. I'll accept that as the likely reason.

As far as the music, Ford said they turned it up after they were in the room, but that's not enough to say that someone couldn't have snuck up on her, though it'd be hard to imagine drunken Bart and Mike being stealthy.

I just wish there was more clarification there. The fact that she didn't mention some details like that doesn't necessarily mean that she can't recall any or explain them. Sometimes people forget to add in details not because they're lying but simply their mind is focused on explaining one part of the story and things move on before they remember they had more detail to give.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 11:09:55 AM by Mr.DeMartino »

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Ford-Kavanaugh Hearing
« Reply #115 on: October 02, 2018, 11:13:51 AM »
I will say this- If Kavanaugh lied about his knowledge of Ramirez's accusations, he should not only be withdrawn, but booted. He might have given himself juuuust enough legal wiggle room in his answer, but he should clarify.

Offline sh9wntm

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Re: Ford-Kavanaugh Hearing
« Reply #116 on: October 02, 2018, 12:26:24 PM »

So, I gather you're <10%. ...

The burden of proof is on the accuser. If the accuser cannot provide sufficient evidence, you cannot progress. Our ancestors realized it is better to let a guilty man walk than it is to falsely convict an innocent man. Because truth is the highest maxim. By letting the man walk, there is still a chance that the truth may rear its head later, rather than make false presuppositions.

This is all goes to show how easily people are emotionally manipulated by the mob to stray from the fundamental tenants of fairness.

Once again, it's not a criminal trial - it's a job interview. He's not entitled to the job, and if there are legitimate doubts about his character or concerns about his willingness to cover up abuse and / or tell the truth in a sworn testimony, then it's incumbent upon public servants to find someone better suited to the position.

I understand this argument, it's a job interview, but it's still set-up as a trial. People are testifying under oath here, which involves the legal system. Perjury is a real consequence if someone is lying. Therefore the judgement follows the same rules.

Again, the precedence this sets is much larger than a job interview. If you can be taken out of a job just because of accusations with no concrete evidence, what's stopping the public from doing the same to their bosses? Don't like your boss? Just say he touched you. Competing for a job against someone? Just lie. The only thing stopping people from doing that is the burden of proof, it's fundamental to fairness in all cases of judgement.

You can't just selectively be unfair to people you don't like, and trust me, I don't like Kavanaugh either.

Offline Andyman

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Re: Ford-Kavanaugh Hearing
« Reply #117 on: October 02, 2018, 12:56:31 PM »
Quote
Again, the precedence this sets is much larger than a job interview. If you can be taken out of a job just because of accusations with no concrete evidence, what's stopping the public from doing the same to their bosses? Don't like your boss? Just say he touched you. Competing for a job against someone? Just lie. The only thing stopping people from doing that is the burden of proof, it's fundamental to fairness in all cases of judgement.

That's why she's had her statement checked by the Senate judiciary committee, given sworn testimony, taken a polygraph and is now working with the FBI. Nobody wants the kind of situation you're describing. I know you don't believe that a person should never report sexual assault cases unless there is concrete material evidence, so what do you suggest that they do? What if her statement is true - would you prefer that she stayed silent?

Offline Andyman

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Re: Ford-Kavanaugh Hearing
« Reply #118 on: October 02, 2018, 01:25:40 PM »
By the way, it's not as if I don't share all these concerns about the consequences of a false accusation, and the mob mentality with which the accused can be confronted. I guess I'm just old enough to remember this conversation from the 1990s, and since it's never been satisfactorily resolved, I don't take a hardline position either way. I do think that everything should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis, and evidence is of paramount importance. I think that because some of us don't talk about the false accusation angle as often, it's assumed that we don't care or don't believe it could happen, but for the most part that isn't true. I could be completely wrong, but in this particular case it strikes me as extremely unlikely that Dr. Ford would put herself through all of this if there weren't some element of truth to it. So I think it's fair that the Senate was given more time to let the FBI investigate.

Offline sh9wntm

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Re: Ford-Kavanaugh Hearing
« Reply #119 on: October 02, 2018, 01:29:18 PM »
Quote
Again, the precedence this sets is much larger than a job interview. If you can be taken out of a job just because of accusations with no concrete evidence, what's stopping the public from doing the same to their bosses? Don't like your boss? Just say he touched you. Competing for a job against someone? Just lie. The only thing stopping people from doing that is the burden of proof, it's fundamental to fairness in all cases of judgement.

That's why she's had her statement checked by the Senate judiciary committee, given sworn testimony, taken a polygraph and is now working with the FBI. Nobody wants the kind of situation you're describing. I know you don't believe that a person should never report sexual assault cases unless there is concrete material evidence, so what do you suggest that they do? What if her statement is true - would you prefer that she stayed silent?

Yikes.. I used the example I did to show the importance of innocence until proven guilty. People should absolutely come forward, including Ford. But it shouldn't get any special circumstances compared to other crimes just because it's particularly traumatic and personal. For example, if my bank is robbed 35 years ago, there's no witnesses, I didn't tell anyone, didn't take any photos, and just bottled it up this entire time, there's little the justice system can do to bring justice. The sooner you can at least tell someone, or take pictures of bruises or the place it happened, or recount what the person looked like, or report it, the better your odds are that justice will be served to the perpetrator.