September 25, 2018, 05:27:08 PM


Author Topic: Media propaganda about the 1910-1945 period.  (Read 1850 times)

Offline pkjh

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Re: Media propaganda about the 1910-1945 period.
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2018, 03:29:15 PM »
Don't forget that prior to Japanese intervention about 65% of the population were slaves in the Korean caste system,
Where did you get that figure from? Link?

Offline kyndo

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Re: Media propaganda about the 1910-1945 period.
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2018, 04:55:53 PM »
Korean agriculture was required to fill Japan's growing need for rice.
..and to feed the growing Korean population. The number of Koreans doubled within a generation thanks to wise Japanese government.
   Well, yes. But Japanese investment in Korean agriculture was mostly for the benefit of... Japan. Sure, Korea benefited from it as well, but that wasn't why Japan did it.
   

Korean agricultural productivity soared due to Japanese intervention so much that the country could not only feed itself but produce massive surplus for export. This was thanks to the basic reformation of agriculture: Japan set up agricultural research stations across the country . For example in Chhungcheongbukdo no less than 492 different varieties of rice were tested by 1931. The best methods of cultivation were researched and put into practice. Farming implements were improved. Farming schools were set up.  The cultivated area increased by a million hectares in the first ten years of Japanese rule.
    All to the benefit of the motherland. Apparently, most of the good stuff was shipped to Japan. Korea got the left overs, which wasn't actually enough to feed everybody: they had to import crap grains from Manchuria to make up the difference. Some sources state that the average Korean caloric intake still dropped nearly by half even with those imports accounted for. I'm not entirely sure I believe that, but it does suggest that despite the surge in agricultural output, the country itself didn't reap all the benefits.

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while Koreans weren't prohibited from pursuing higher education, Japanese policies made it difficult for most to advance beyond primary.


That's an exaggeration.. while secondary-school enrollment rates were not comparable to those of Japan, they were still 100% better than before Japanese occupation.
Not an exaggeration, no: even in 1945, less than 50% of Korean males finished elementary school, and less than 5% finished highschool. But yeah, both of those numbers are infinitely better than pre-colonial times, no argument there.

       Your link also notes that "Children of elite families were able to advance to higher education, while others were able to attend technical schools, allowing for "the emergence of a small but important class of well-educated white collar and technical workers ... who possessed skills required to run a modern industrial economy...the Japanese education system ultimately produced hundreds of thousands of educated South Koreans who later became "the core of the postwar political and economic elite."
      Before occupation Koreans didn't even get the chance of an elementary education.
      And as far as agriculture goes they were subsistence farmers in a wretched condition.
True. I'm not really sure what you're arguing here. How was this not to the Empire's advantage? Of course they wanted skilled labourers to keep their investments in the black!

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...had Japan not been defeated in the war, Korean culture would have suffered the same fate that Canadian First Nations culture did

Actually your link suggests a far more benevolent picture:
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"Korean history and language studies were taught side by side with Japanese history and language studies..
In the initial phase of Japanese rule, students were taught in Korean in public schools established by ethnic Korean officials who worked for the colonial government. While prior to this schools in Korea had used mostly Hanja, during this time Korean came to be written in a mixed Hanja–Korean script, where most lexical roots were written in Hanja and grammatical forms in Korean script.[108] Korean textbooks from this era included excerpts from traditional Korean stories such as Heungbujeon (흥부전).[109]
Integration of Korean students in Japanese language schools and Japanese students in Korean language schools was discouraged but steadily increased over time.

In 1921, government efforts were strengthened to promote Korean media and literature throughout Korea and also in Japan. The Japanese government also created incentives to educate ethnic Japanese students in the Korean language.[110] As a response, the Korean Language Society was created by ethnic Koreans. In 1928, as the assimilation policy began to ramp up, the first Hangul Day (9 October) was celebrated to commemorate the Korean alphabet.[111]
    Yep, sounds pretty decent, right? But if you read a little bit further down... "The Japanese administrative policy shifted more aggressively towards cultural assimilation in 1938 (Naisen ittai) with a new government report advising reform to strengthen the war effort. This left less room for Korean language studies and by 1943 all Korean language courses had been phased out. Teaching and speaking of Korean was prohibited. Although the government report advised further, more radical reform, the 10-year plan would never fully go into effect.:huh:


So its hardly the "invade, rape, pillage, burn to the ground" fantasy believed by Mike T which is encouraged in the national media.
     I totally agree. Never claimed otherwise. I just stated that Japan developed Korea for their own economic and military benefit. Why have an impoverished, useless colony when you can invest some time and money to turn it into something that will be able to support and supply your war efforts in the near future?

    I mean, Britain colonized a fair portion of the world, and most of those placed have seen a huge leap forward in quality of living etc... but strangely enough, very few of the original inhabitants of those places seem terribly grateful...  :undecided:
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 05:00:25 PM by kyndo »

Offline Cyanea

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Re: Media propaganda about the 1910-1945 period.
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2018, 05:01:51 PM »
Don't forget that prior to Japanese intervention about 65% of the population were slaves in the Korean caste system,
Where did you get that figure from? Link?

Not sure. That % might include those in indentured servitude. 

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"Korean slavery..was one of the longest held systems, one of the broadest in scale, and one of the most sophisticated in the pre-modern world"
www.raskb.com/transactions/VOL60/VOL60-3.docx

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In 1690 nobi were estimated to account for over a third (37%) of the Korean society
https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/Slavery_in_Korea.html

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The number of slaves fluctuated throughout the Joseon period: there were times when their numbers reached 30% of the population.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_in_the_Joseon_Dynasty

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"slavery did not completely disappear in Korea until 1930, during Imperial Japanese rule"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Korea

Catch my drift?

donovan

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Re: Media propaganda about the 1910-1945 period.
« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2018, 08:47:04 PM »
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"slavery did not completely disappear in Korea until 1930, during Imperial Japanese rule"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Korea

You might say that slavery did not completely disappear. Period.

’The islands of abuse: Inside South Korea's slave farms for the disabled’
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/the-islands-of-abuse-inside-south-koreas-slave-farms-for-the-disabled-9954527.html

But even granting all the horridness that existed before Imperial Japan arrived on the scene and whatever modernizing improvements they put in place, I do think you are attributing far more benevolent intent to them than they deserve.

Offline macteacher

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Re: Media propaganda about the 1910-1945 period.
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2018, 10:45:59 PM »
Quote
"slavery did not completely disappear in Korea until 1930, during Imperial Japanese rule"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Korea

You might say that slavery did not completely disappear. Period.

’The islands of abuse: Inside South Korea's slave farms for the disabled’
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/the-islands-of-abuse-inside-south-koreas-slave-farms-for-the-disabled-9954527.html

But even granting all the horridness that existed before Imperial Japan arrived on the scene and whatever modernizing improvements they put in place, I do think you are attributing far more benevolent intent to them than they deserve.

i personally find the continual anti-japanese nation building to be odd? (i still have students writing english entries about their dream of going into japan with a tank and blowing it up. so the idea still gets passed around)

my loose historical understanding was that the joseon dynasty was helped propped up by being a vassal state of china. granted the korean people ruled itself, it was a society with slaves, didn't let women out of their houses, strictly pushed down merchants, didn't allow for road systems to develop, didn't allow for trading of ideas with outside people. korea had a very low population compared to other developing nations. we even have north korea to look at as the inheritance of joseon.

i just don't know how you can't have the oppressive society of joseon for hundreds of years and not at least give a little credit to some of the benefits the Japanese brought. At the very least, acknowledge the historical realities of the time. towards the end of the war/empire, the japanese government was also oppressive to the japanese people. the bigger lesson is the power abuse that can come from authoritarian governments rather than a specific people (something that i'm not sure the government / chaebols learned from and instead adopted).

you also have issues like comfort women being paraded around internationally while the country regularly has sex workers flown in and held captive by bar owners holding their visas etc. at least try to amend the present for the sins of the past that one refuses to forget 

donovan

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Re: Media propaganda about the 1910-1945 period.
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2018, 06:51:07 AM »
It doesn’t really seem like you're responding to me despite the quote. My point was that yes, things were far from great under the Joseon, and problems still persist in Korean society long after, and you could credit Japanese intervention with helping Korea along with its modernization. Maybe you even give them full credit, but that doesn’t mean they came in as noble reform-minded liberators.

(holy crap. I pity the person who read this before I proofread it.)
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 07:24:33 AM by donovan »

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Media propaganda about the 1910-1945 period.
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2018, 07:18:54 AM »
"There is no people on Earth who would not prefer their own bad government to the good government of an alien power."
"Despite the best intentions of the best of you, you must, in the nature of things, humiliate us to control us."


It doesn't matter what the Japanese did or what benefits they brought or what their motives were, they had no business being there.

Offline kyndo

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Re: Media propaganda about the 1910-1945 period.
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2018, 08:10:16 AM »
"There is no people on Earth who would not prefer their own bad government to the good government of an alien power."
"Despite the best intentions of the best of you, you must, in the nature of things, humiliate us to control us."


It doesn't matter what the Japanese did or what benefits they brought or what their motives were, they had no business being there.
Sure they did. They needed a waystation for their invasion of China.  :smiley:

Also, those are some great quotes from an awesome movie. +1

Offline macteacher

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Re: Media propaganda about the 1910-1945 period.
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2018, 08:19:34 AM »
It doesn’t really seem like you're responding to me despite the quote. My point was that yes, things were far from great under the Joseon, and problems still persist in Korean society long after, and you could credit Japanese intervention with helping Korea along with its modernization. Maybe you even give them full credit, but that doesn’t mean they came in as noble reform-minded liberators.

(holy crap. I pity the person who read this before I proofread it.)

i was responding more to the general idea of the continuation of the past from joseon era (eg modern slavery). as i often think gets downplayed by Korea Inc.

Online Aristocrat

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Re: Media propaganda about the 1910-1945 period.
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2018, 08:33:20 AM »
"There is no people on Earth who would not prefer their own bad government to the good government of an alien power."
"Despite the best intentions of the best of you, you must, in the nature of things, humiliate us to control us."


It doesn't matter what the Japanese did or what benefits they brought or what their motives were, they had no business being there.

I don't think anyone is disputing that.

The issue is that conquering has always been part of human civilization since the beginning. Condone or condemn it, this is the way in nature and humans.
Every nation has conquered and/or been conquered at some point. If your civilization isn't militarily and culturally strong enough to resist, it'll likely find itself a vassal or conquered state.
Korea is nothing special, it was weak, it got conquered by a stronger power. The 21st century is no different, nations are still getting conquered, albeit in a more sinister way.

My concern, at least, is that Korea considers this a grave injustice, that Korea is somehow an exception and that Japan needs to repeatedly apologize and compensate for what was a combination of Japanese greed and Korean weakness... and you know what? I'd be willing to respect Korea's decision if Korea decided to deport all Japanese nationals and diplomats, close the Japanese embassy, cease all trade between Japan and ban all Japanese products.

I'm more inclined to believe this rabid natioNAZISM is simply a ploy to unify and distract/manipulate a nation. Not so hard to believe when the only reason that country to our north still exists is by using this very same tactic.

Online MayorHaggar

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Re: Media propaganda about the 1910-1945 period.
« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2018, 08:53:01 AM »
In my view most of the modern anti-Japan-ism of South Korea is based on the fact that they see Japan as a direct economic competitor. By portraying Japan as an evil enemy of "Korea," the government and industry and media thinks they can get people to avoid buying Japanese products and instead buy Korean ones. Japan doesn't import anything from Korea because their products are better and protected by tariffs anyway, so Koreans don't see any reason to be nice to the Japanese because they aren't buying their products anyway. Meanwhile Koreans paradoxically see China benevolently even though China supports North Korea, partly because Korean companies want to sell things to China, but also because a lot of South Koreans sentimentally see North Korea as good and not a threat simply because it's Korean.

Taiwan went through a similar experience to Korea during Japanese colonization, they received a lot of economic and industrial development but were also forced to take Japanese names and banned from speaking anything but Japanese. Yet today Taiwan seems to see Japan benevolently, partly because they are seen as an ally against China but also because Taiwan doesn't have the kinds of national industries that Korea does, so Japanese products like cars and air conditionings are everywhere.

Japan should be a natural ally to South Korea against North Korea, but Koreans instead see Japan as an existential threat and China as an ally, in my view largely because Samsung wants to sell crap to China and knows it doesn't have a chance in hell of ever selling anything in Japan.

Online JNM

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Re: Media propaganda about the 1910-1945 period.
« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2018, 09:19:14 AM »
http://gs.statcounter.com/vendor-market-share/mobile/japan

I didn't realize how low Samsung's market share was in Japan.

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Media propaganda about the 1910-1945 period.
« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2018, 09:38:14 AM »
I'm more inclined to believe this rabid natioNAZISM is simply a ploy to unify and distract/manipulate a nation. Not so hard to believe when the only reason that country to our north still exists is by using this very same tactic.

No hyperbole here.

Japan should be a natural ally to South Korea against North Korea, but Koreans instead see Japan as an existential threat and China as an ally, in my view largely because Samsung wants to sell crap to China and knows it doesn't have a chance in hell of ever selling anything in Japan.
The South Korean military, like everything else everywhere else in the world, has factions. Some favor robust cooperation with Japan, others view Japan as competitors, just as there are elements in Saenuri who view Japan favorably and those that do not.

I do think some people here have a rose-colored view of Japan. Just because the Japanese smile and treat westerners nicely, doesn't mean they do the same to other Asians.

Offline gogators!

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Re: Media propaganda about the 1910-1945 period.
« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2018, 03:34:15 AM »
I'm more inclined to believe this rabid natioNAZISM is simply a ploy to unify and distract/manipulate a nation. Not so hard to believe when the only reason that country to our north still exists is by using this very same tactic.

No hyperbole here.

Japan should be a natural ally to South Korea against North Korea, but Koreans instead see Japan as an existential threat and China as an ally, in my view largely because Samsung wants to sell crap to China and knows it doesn't have a chance in hell of ever selling anything in Japan.
The South Korean military, like everything else everywhere else in the world, has factions. Some favor robust cooperation with Japan, others view Japan as competitors, just as there are elements in Saenuri who view Japan favorably and those that do not.

I do think some people here have a rose-colored view of Japan. Just because the Japanese smile and treat westerners nicely, doesn't mean they do the same to other Asians.
Your god-like omniscience is a wonder to behold, especially after your comment, "No hyperbole here."

Offline pkjh

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Re: Media propaganda about the 1910-1945 period.
« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2018, 08:20:59 AM »
http://gs.statcounter.com/vendor-market-share/mobile/japan

I didn't realize how low Samsung's market share was in Japan.
Surprised that even Sony has such a small market share in their home market.

Offline Mike.T

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Re: Media propaganda about the 1910-1945 period.
« Reply #35 on: July 12, 2018, 10:25:06 AM »

I do think some people here have a rose-colored view of Japan. Just because the Japanese smile and treat westerners nicely, doesn't mean they do the same to other Asians.


I've always been of the belief that while the Germans achieved quantity in their war crimes, the Japanese achieved 'quality'.

They were the absolute embodiment of evil in its purest form.

Offline gogators!

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Re: Media propaganda about the 1910-1945 period.
« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2018, 10:06:30 AM »
http://gs.statcounter.com/vendor-market-share/mobile/japan

I didn't realize how low Samsung's market share was in Japan.
They had to take their names off the phones they were selling in Japan for a while due to blowback over the comfort women statues.

donovan

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Re: Media propaganda about the 1910-1945 period.
« Reply #37 on: July 13, 2018, 10:09:16 AM »
What terrible irony that much of the world thinks SAMSUNG is a Japanese brand.

http://gs.statcounter.com/vendor-market-share/mobile/japan

I didn't realize how low Samsung's market share was in Japan.
Surprised that even Sony has such a small market share in their home market.

Don't they largely sell insurance now?
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 10:11:20 AM by donovan »

Offline gogators!

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Re: Media propaganda about the 1910-1945 period.
« Reply #38 on: July 13, 2018, 10:12:33 AM »

I do think some people here have a rose-colored view of Japan. Just because the Japanese smile and treat westerners nicely, doesn't mean they do the same to other Asians.


I've always been of the belief that while the Germans achieved quantity in their war crimes, the Japanese achieved 'quality'.

They were the absolute embodiment of evil in its purest form.
The Thai-Burma railway car at the yakusini shrine is a real affront to all the POWs the Japanese killed and tortured.

Offline Cyanea

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Re: Media propaganda about the 1910-1945 period.
« Reply #39 on: July 13, 2018, 11:47:38 AM »
Just because the Japanese smile and treat westerners nicely, doesn't mean they do the same to other Asians.

They treat westerners more nicely than the Koreans do. More secure in their identity.

Anyhoo from what i saw they treat Koreans well because of the whole fascination with Korean dramas.
Catch my drift?