January 24, 2019, 01:24:32 AM


Author Topic: California is a failing state.  (Read 11335 times)

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: California is a failing state.
« Reply #200 on: June 05, 2018, 08:06:47 AM »
Anecdotal evidence is one thing, but the fiction you write is quite another.

Education needs to be fulfilling and personally meaningful, not just a means to an end (high test scores). For that to happen, you need motivated teachers who receive effective training in new methods and the materials to put their training to good use.

Do you have an encyclopedia of canards that you use as research for your posts?

Who said anything about high test scores?

Also, a "fulfilling" education is one based on the student, not the teacher or the program designer. What is "fulfilling" for one student would be empty for another. Some students are more practical than others. Their interests lie in how things work rather than vague theories of humanism and philosophy.

We as a people did plenty fine with education, invention, art, and thought with old school rote memorization and lesson plans, libraries with manual card catalogs, chalk and pencil and then typewriters, and so on. Having the latest this and that when it comes to educational theory and methods is no substitute for motivation and drive.

Students might do well to ditch some of the latest textbooks and get back to basics and the classics.

Online eggieguffer

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Re: California is a failing state.
« Reply #201 on: June 05, 2018, 10:32:10 AM »
Anecdotal evidence is one thing, but the fiction you write is quite another.

Education needs to be fulfilling and personally meaningful, not just a means to an end (high test scores). For that to happen, you need motivated teachers who receive effective training in new methods and the materials to put their training to good use.

Do you have an encyclopedia of canards that you use as research for your posts?

Who said anything about high test scores?

Also, a "fulfilling" education is one based on the student, not the teacher or the program designer. What is "fulfilling" for one student would be empty for another. Some students are more practical than others. Their interests lie in how things work rather than vague theories of humanism and philosophy.

We as a people did plenty fine with education, invention, art, and thought with old school rote memorization and lesson plans, libraries with manual card catalogs, chalk and pencil and then typewriters, and so on. Having the latest this and that when it comes to educational theory and methods is no substitute for motivation and drive.

Students might do well to ditch some of the latest textbooks and get back to basics and the classics.

Yes how long would it take before all those brand new tax payer funded text books were ripped and covered in pictures of penises?

Offline Chester Jim

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Re: California is a failing state.
« Reply #202 on: June 06, 2018, 07:30:25 PM »
Bonzai!

Online Life Improvement

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Re: California is a failing state.
« Reply #203 on: June 06, 2018, 07:39:26 PM »
Jesus, Fox News is Korea Times level trash. Something about that clickbait headline is fake news. See if you can figure it out.

Online gogators!

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Re: California is a failing state.
« Reply #204 on: June 06, 2018, 09:05:06 PM »
Anecdotal evidence is one thing, but the fiction you write is quite another.

Education needs to be fulfilling and personally meaningful, not just a means to an end (high test scores). For that to happen, you need motivated teachers who receive effective training in new methods and the materials to put their training to good use.

Do you have an encyclopedia of canards that you use as research for your posts?

Who said anything about high test scores?

Also, a "fulfilling" education is one based on the student, not the teacher or the program designer. What is "fulfilling" for one student would be empty for another. Some students are more practical than others. Their interests lie in how things work rather than vague theories of humanism and philosophy.

We as a people did plenty fine with education, invention, art, and thought with old school rote memorization and lesson plans, libraries with manual card catalogs, chalk and pencil and then typewriters, and so on. Having the latest this and that when it comes to educational theory and methods is no substitute for motivation and drive.

Students might do well to ditch some of the latest textbooks and get back to basics and the classics.

Yes how long would it take before all those brand new tax payer funded text books were ripped and covered in pictures of penises?
Projecting?

Online gogators!

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Re: California is a failing state.
« Reply #205 on: June 06, 2018, 09:09:33 PM »
Anecdotal evidence is one thing, but the fiction you write is quite another.

Education needs to be fulfilling and personally meaningful, not just a means to an end (high test scores). For that to happen, you need motivated teachers who receive effective training in new methods and the materials to put their training to good use.

Do you have an encyclopedia of canards that you use as research for your posts?

Who said anything about high test scores?

Also, a "fulfilling" education is one based on the student, not the teacher or the program designer. What is "fulfilling" for one student would be empty for another. Some students are more practical than others. Their interests lie in how things work rather than vague theories of humanism and philosophy.

We as a people did plenty fine with education, invention, art, and thought with old school rote memorization and lesson plans, libraries with manual card catalogs, chalk and pencil and then typewriters, and so on. Having the latest this and that when it comes to educational theory and methods is no substitute for motivation and drive.

Students might do well to ditch some of the latest textbooks and get back to basics and the classics.
Educators--you might want to do a little reading on the subject of student involvement and motivation--that's who said it.

"We as a people"--you mean convenience store clerks and pizza delivery workers? That's where your "motivation and drive" got you, right? You "might do well" to remember that before you start handing out advice.

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: California is a failing state.
« Reply #206 on: June 06, 2018, 10:55:35 PM »
Educators--you might want to do a little reading on the subject of student involvement and motivation--that's who said it.
Right, but "high test scores" is not addressing any point anyone here made.

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"We as a people"--you mean convenience store clerks and pizza delivery workers?
Yes, I worked a job that helped pay my way through college and made sure I had food everyday. Ended up in the same damn place you did- teaching English in Korea.

Why don't you add your jab at service workers to your schpiel as you try to register Democratic voters back home. I'm sure your superiors would really be enthusiastic about that.

Online gogators!

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Re: California is a failing state.
« Reply #207 on: June 07, 2018, 01:08:22 AM »
Educators--you might want to do a little reading on the subject of student involvement and motivation--that's who said it.
Right, but "high test scores" is not addressing any point anyone here made.

Quote
"We as a people"--you mean convenience store clerks and pizza delivery workers?
Yes, I worked a job that helped pay my way through college and made sure I had food everyday. Ended up in the same damn place you did- teaching English in Korea.

Why don't you add your jab at service workers to your schpiel as you try to register Democratic voters back home. I'm sure your superiors would really be enthusiastic about that.
Not quite.

"My superiors"? I'm not a trumpist taking marching orders.

I respect all workers. I don't respect someone pretending to speak for "we, the people, " especially when they're uniformed and prone to lying.

Offline Mr C

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Re: California is a failing state.
« Reply #208 on: June 07, 2018, 07:39:41 AM »

We as a people did plenty fine with education, invention, art, and thought with old school rote memorization and lesson plans, libraries with manual card catalogs, chalk and pencil and then typewriters, and so on.

Depends on what you mean by "fine".  HS students in the US in the sixties doubtless got a more thorough education in many subjects.  But the truth is there were a lot fewer of them.  The drop out rate in 1960 was 27.2% ( https://www.infoplease.com/us/school-enrollment-and-educational-attainment/high-school-dropout-rates-sex ), but is now 7.4%.  In 1900, only about 10% completed high school.

Students who were "unmotivated" didn't so much hang around in the school system and need to be motivated.

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: California is a failing state.
« Reply #209 on: June 07, 2018, 08:19:35 AM »
"My superiors"? I'm not a trumpist taking marching orders.
Do you work for any sort of campaign organization? Then undoubtedly there is some sort of organizational structure and guidelines.

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I respect all workers.

No, you don't. You insulted service work. You're a phony when it comes to respecting workers and you're a phony when it comes to racism. All talk, no action. Only now, you're not even getting the talk right.

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I don't respect someone pretending to speak for "we, the people, " especially when they're uniformed and prone to lying.

You haven't demonstrated much in the way of information.


Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: California is a failing state.
« Reply #210 on: June 07, 2018, 08:28:00 AM »
Students who were "unmotivated" didn't so much hang around in the school system and need to be motivated.
We should recognize that a certain percentage of students is always going to be unmotivated when it comes to a traditional education program. A more practical educational concept might be better. Too many educators and academics think every student should be going to college where they'll be these Renaissance types that discuss the merits of Neo-Classicism vs. Romanticism, the latest sociological claptrap, and whatever SJW nonsense they're throwing at kids these days.

Many students, especially boys, would be better served learning how to paint cars or design bridges or program video games or shooting and running. Stop forcing them to read some work of literature that they have no interest in.

You don't need the latest techniques or even a whole ton of money. You need the right idea. There's students out there that would learn more with an old 1995 Honda Civic, a toolbox, and a cherry-picker than a bunch of interactive tablets and the latest textbooks.

The problem is the people, particularly leftists and intellectuals (not all, for example, Noam Chomsky deeply respects the working class and the skills and intelligence they have), who tend to view these people as less intelligent or less sophisticated.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 10:26:24 AM by Mr.DeMartino »

Offline tylerthegloob

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Re: California is a failing state.
« Reply #211 on: June 07, 2018, 08:41:24 AM »
Students who were "unmotivated" didn't so much hang around in the school system and need to be motivated.
We should recognize that a certain percentage of students is always going to be unmotivated when it comes to a traditional education program. A more practical educational concept might be better. Too many educators and academics think every student should be going to college where they'll be these Renaissance types that discuss the merits of Neo-Classicism vs. Romanticism, the latest sociological claptrap, and whatever SJW nonsense they're throwing at kids these days.

Many students, especially boys, would be better served learning how to pain cars or design bridges or program video games or shooting and running. Stop forcing them to read some work of literature that they have no interest in.

You don't need the latest techniques or even a whole ton of money. You need the right idea. There's students out there that would learn more with an old 1995 Honda Civic, a toolbox, and a cherry-picker than a bunch of interactive tablets and the latest textbooks.

The problem is the people, particularly leftists and intellectuals (not all, for example, Noam Chomsky deeply respects the working class and the skills and intelligence they have), who tend to view these people as less intelligent or less sophisticated.

What do you think happens in colleges...? If you go to college to learn how to design bridges, you probably aren't going to spend much time doing that other stuff you mentioned... MAYBE a few classes. Most of my friends from university are STEM types and, trust me, they really benefited from those few humanities classes (just like I benefited from the two science classes I was required to take). They had a lot of choice in which general requirements classes they took. Despite what you've heard, none were force-fed Marxism or whatever other nonsense you and Jordan Peterson think goes on. If you're looking for that, you can find it (and I was and I did). My first roommate was a very conservative evangelical Russian-American and he survived. I don't think our higher education is perfect in the US. There is a lot to fix. But it's not a part of some conspiracy to churn out lefties. At least not in my experience.

Online eggieguffer

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Re: California is a failing state.
« Reply #212 on: June 07, 2018, 09:31:38 AM »
Students who were "unmotivated" didn't so much hang around in the school system and need to be motivated.
We should recognize that a certain percentage of students is always going to be unmotivated when it comes to a traditional education program. A more practical educational concept might be better. Too many educators and academics think every student should be going to college where they'll be these Renaissance types that discuss the merits of Neo-Classicism vs. Romanticism, the latest sociological claptrap, and whatever SJW nonsense they're throwing at kids these days.

Many students, especially boys, would be better served learning how to pain cars or design bridges or program video games or shooting and running. Stop forcing them to read some work of literature that they have no interest in.

You don't need the latest techniques or even a whole ton of money. You need the right idea. There's students out there that would learn more with an old 1995 Honda Civic, a toolbox, and a cherry-picker than a bunch of interactive tablets and the latest textbooks.

The problem is the people, particularly leftists and intellectuals (not all, for example, Noam Chomsky deeply respects the working class and the skills and intelligence they have), who tend to view these people as less intelligent or less sophisticated.

What do you think happens in colleges...? If you go to college to learn how to design bridges, you probably aren't going to spend much time doing that other stuff you mentioned... MAYBE a few classes. Most of my friends from university are STEM types and, trust me, they really benefited from those few humanities classes (just like I benefited from the two science classes I was required to take). They had a lot of choice in which general requirements classes they took. Despite what you've heard, none were force-fed Marxism or whatever other nonsense you and Jordan Peterson think goes on. If you're looking for that, you can find it (and I was and I did). My first roommate was a very conservative evangelical Russian-American and he survived. I don't think our higher education is perfect in the US. There is a lot to fix. But it's not a part of some conspiracy to churn out lefties. At least not in my experience.

Whatever you think of Jordan Peterson he does actually work at a university so he at least has a pretty good idea of what goes on at his.

For others you can check out this site

https://www.facebook.com/FilmYourMarxistProfessors/  (Not all)

Offline tylerthegloob

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Re: California is a failing state.
« Reply #213 on: June 07, 2018, 09:40:42 AM »

Whatever you think of Jordan Peterson he does actually work at a university so he at least has a pretty good idea of what goes on at his.

For others you can check out this site

https://www.facebook.com/FilmYourMarxistProfessors/  (Not all)

I didn't say it doesn't exist. It's just brought up in these conversations too much IMO.

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: California is a failing state.
« Reply #214 on: June 07, 2018, 10:27:20 AM »
What do you think happens in colleges...?
We're talking about taxpayer funded schools- Elementary, middle, and high school.

Offline shanebarry1986

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Re: California is a failing state.
« Reply #215 on: June 07, 2018, 11:50:39 AM »
Noam Chomsky deeply respects the working class and the skills and intelligence they have

He thinks they can't even be trusted with firearms. He thinks that the government can be trusted with firearms, and that they should use their authority to disarm the proles. He's also an anarchist (or "libertarian socialist").

He's not a smart man. I doubt he has ever seen a working class person.

Offline tylerthegloob

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Re: California is a failing state.
« Reply #216 on: June 07, 2018, 12:41:30 PM »
What do you think happens in colleges...?
We're talking about taxpayer funded schools- Elementary, middle, and high school.

In my mind, there is no sound argument for not teaching all of the subjects until high school. I can see an argument for allowing students to opt out of a higher level English class for auto-shop or something like that (in high school).

That said, I wouldn't call what goes on in high school classes "the latest sociological claptrap" or even "whatever SJW nonsense they're throwing at kids these days." Most of those classes focus on basic skills like writing and reading. These are skills that everyone needs (we all know a few people on this forum who probably should've paid attention in their high school writing classes).

Online eggieguffer

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Re: California is a failing state.
« Reply #217 on: June 07, 2018, 12:49:58 PM »
What do you think happens in colleges...?
We're talking about taxpayer funded schools- Elementary, middle, and high school.

In my mind, there is no sound argument for not teaching all of the subjects until high school. I can see an argument for allowing students to opt out of a higher level English class for auto-shop or something like that (in high school).

That said, I wouldn't call what goes on in high school classes "the latest sociological claptrap" or even "whatever SJW nonsense they're throwing at kids these days." Most of those classes focus on basic skills like writing and reading. These are skills that everyone needs (we all know a few people on this forum who probably should've paid attention in their high school writing classes).

It depends what they're teaching them in History, Literature and Citizenship, or whatever it's called these days.

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: California is a failing state.
« Reply #218 on: June 07, 2018, 02:13:49 PM »
Noam Chomsky deeply respects the working class and the skills and intelligence they have

He thinks they can't even be trusted with firearms. He thinks that the government can be trusted with firearms, and that they should use their authority to disarm the proles. He's also an anarchist (or "libertarian socialist").

He's not a smart man. I doubt he has ever seen a working class person.

Noam Chomsky is fantastically brilliant on many things and wrong on plenty.

But to say he's "not smart" just isn't true.

Online gogators!

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Re: California is a failing state.
« Reply #219 on: June 07, 2018, 07:01:56 PM »
"My superiors"? I'm not a trumpist taking marching orders.
Do you work for any sort of campaign organization? Then undoubtedly there is some sort of organizational structure and guidelines.

Quote
I respect all workers.

No, you don't. You insulted service work. You're a phony when it comes to respecting workers and you're a phony when it comes to racism. All talk, no action. Only now, you're not even getting the talk right.

Quote
I don't respect someone pretending to speak for "we, the people, " especially when they're uniformed and prone to lying.

You haven't demonstrated much in the way of information.
No, I questioned your credentials as an authority for "we the people" by highlighting your work experience, which is in sharp contrast to the statement you made.

As for information, I've given plenty and there's plenty more out there. You ignore it because it gets in the way of all your blather

Keep calling me a racist all you like. It has as much basis in fact as your claims about Kenyan Olympic runners' high tech training methods.