September 23, 2018, 04:27:33 AM


Ohmyzip.com From US To Korea - $7.50 (LB)
[SHOP US, SHIP KOREA] From $7.50 (1LB) + $1.74 per pound only! Use the Ohmyzip U.S. a tax-free state address as your shipping address at checkout. Sign up now to get a 10% off coupon on shipping. <Freight Forwarding Service / Courier Service>
http://www.ohmyzip.com/

Author Topic: If you lived in Korea for 20 years how much money would you expect to have saved  (Read 4224 times)

Offline Life Improvement

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2835
This poster hit the nail on the head. 1 million us is very possible.

Save a million dollars in 20 years? In order to do that a person would have to save $50K a year, starting with their first year. Most NETs don't even earn that in a year. If they do, they are in their 40s or 50s (in the later half of their career) with the F visa from marrying a Korean citizen for the most part. Possible, yes. Likely, no. The norm, no. How much did you save per year when working in Korea, Thomas Mc? Since you left, GEPIK reduced its rate of pay (meaning adjusted for inflation way down).

When calculating total remuneration (meaning including money paid into one's retirement account) English teaching mostly pays well below the average/median/mean compared to similarly educated counterparts. Kind of worrying. But everything's a trade off. Pros and cons. Just don't exaggerate how rich EFL teachers typically become or how poor typical university grads become in the West. Follow the truth wherever it may take you. No matter how unpleasant. Hard not to let ego or insecurity get in the way, I know, but being armed with accurate information is the best way to strategize.

Online eggieguffer

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4177
  • Gender: Male
Quote
$1million US is within the realm of possibility.

This poster hit the nail on the head. 1 million us is very possible.

Winning the lottery is 'within the realms of possibility'. Considering the average Hagwan/PS worker's total earnings would be around 600,000 dollars in 20 years, I think saving a million would be also be 'within the realm of possibility' but no more likely. Even if you made double that, you'd need money to live on so would still have to make some good investments.

Offline Life Improvement

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2835
What are the good investments now I wonder.

Cryptocurrency and property in Korea (what a poster in this thread boasting about his wealth got in earlier) have certainly gone up but will they continue to go up? Some experts say they're in a bubble, so maybe not. You could get burned. Might not be as easy to replicate the success of the older guys on here. Think of the declining demographics. That might bring housing prices down...or at least slow their growth. 2008 until today saw huge stock market growth. People who got in then did well. I'm hearing warnings of a possible pullback. So buy stocks now at an all time high? Hard to know what to do.

Offline some waygug-in

  • Super Waygook
  • ***
  • Posts: 381
  • Gender: Male
Even 600,000 after 20 years is a stretch.

If you earn 2.3m for 20 years, your total income is only 552m KW.  Oops, forgot about the year end bonus thingy.
So assuming you actually received it every year you could break 600m KW after 20 years.

But that's before expenses, taxes and assuming you took no breaks or vacation time. (and most importantly, you'd
have to be hoping that no greedy hagwon boss ripped you off during that time or any other such misfortune)

You'd have to be doing a whole lot of private lessons to get anywhere close the million US figure.

At the current exchange rate:  http://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/convert/?Amount=1%2C000%2C000&From=USD&To=KRW

1,000,000 USD =
1,064,994,362.94 SKW




« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 11:07:38 PM by some waygug-in »

Offline Thomas Mc

  • Super Waygook
  • ***
  • Posts: 303
I think Iíve been fair and mentioned demographics having a terrible impact on the Korean tefl scene. I started 10 years ago and my salary was 2.1 million won a month. Today itís not inconceivable that on returning to Korea Iíd be working at that same salary. That is 10 Years of stagnating.

On the plus side though prepaid air transport is still provided and fully paid accommodation. I was concerned at the height of the recession those would go too.

Also note that demographics is going to have an awful effect on real estate investment in Korea unless they decide to emulate Angela merkel and allow migrants in. And I donít think they want to do that.

I think you would be better off buying your property in your home country even if you end up with a Korean wife.


Offline Life Improvement

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2835
Quote
ďAs young people feel like their monthly income will never be enough to purchase a home, many see bitcoin and the lottery as one last chance in their life,Ē Kim said.

http://koreabizwire.com/young-south-koreans-turn-to-cryptocurrency-investment-in-desperation/109113

Quote
Along with the growing interest in cryptocurrency investment, an increasing number of young South Koreans are using their savings to go into property speculation.

Yikes!

Offline jimskins

  • Adventurer
  • *
  • Posts: 43
  • Gender: Male
I think the original post is a bit 'how long is a piece of string'-ish. 

Are you talking about a single person, and if so on an F visa or not?  Are you talking about one main salary or including extra work?  If including married people, are you excluding the partner's income (if they have any at all); and also considering the number of kids they have?  Are we including investment income and if so what kind of investor -a conservative one who puts all their cash in savings accounts at 2-3%, or someone a bit more savvy who manages to make a 6%+ return?  Are we factoring in unforeseen events divorce/serious illness etc?

I have lived in Korea for 11 years now, worked hagwons, after-school, public school and universities.  As a rough rule of thumb I think you can live fairly comfortably here and save about half your salary.  If you say the average salary is about 2.5, that's 15mil a year x 20= 300 mil basic, plus reasonable investment income and the yearly bonus, I think close to 500 mil is achievable for your average run-of-the-miller who doesn't make any attempt to move up the -short- ladder or do any extra work, or have any serious commitments.

As I alluded to above, it's also impossible to predict what will happen over 20 years.  When my wife and I first married, I was doing a couple of business privates each day + other little bits on top of the FT position and she was working fulltime, between us we were pulling in about 9 mil a month after tax, saving about 80% of it.  I was thinking, "keep this up and we'll be able to buy one of those -albeit the smaller sized- new apartments across the road in 6-7 years (in Jamsil-  before the prices went completely nuts).  That situation lasted about 3 years -until my wife fell pregnant.  After my daughter was born I thought, "is the extra couple of mil a month worth the time away from my family? -nope."  I haven't done any extra work since and neither has my wife, so we're now on 3 mil a month after tax, quite a comedown.  Of course I know couples who've just plopped the kid in the daycare centre all day when they turned 3 months old and keep chasing the green (this is Korea after all), and there is nothing wrong with that either.  But my point is circumstances and priorities change.  You can't take for granted your income level over 20 years, especially in a demographically-troubled country such as Korea, and as changeable an industry as TEFL.

Just my two cents.

PS: Just a quick point about apartment prices and Bitcoin: in investing terms they've become the same thing.  People buy Bitcoin not because they've checked out all the data etc, but simply because they think they will increase in price, so the price increases.  It is the same with apartments in Korea, people are buying because they think they will increase, despite all the fundamentals being completely wrong, espec. longer-term.  Korea has built more apartments the last few years than ever before, and continues to build them, with people taking out huge loans (this damages the economy as no one has any money to spend, never mind when interest rates increase, which they will).  Just as Mr and Mrs Kim have finally paid off the mortgage in a decade or so -their only nest egg- the prices will start terminal decline, as the 6-child baby-boomer generation starts to die off and sell their homes, when unfortunately the main buying age group starts to be populated by the 1-child generation.   

The prices in Seoul will be insulated to a certain extent as people will always want to live there, if they have the cash and/or houses to sell to fund a move in to the capital (as what is happening with the prices of the reconstruction areas around Jamsil at the moment), but there will have to be a sharp correction there too eventually (30-40% guesstimate).  Gyeongi-do will be hit the hardest as they've built literally forests of apartments there and there just won't be the people to fill them; the days of 4-5억 prices there are numbered.
 
In short, buying an apartment to live in here, never mind "investing" in Korean real estate at this point would be absolutely nuts.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 08:22:16 AM by jimskins »

Offline Telephone33

  • Adventurer
  • *
  • Posts: 45
Does any one know of anyone who has made enough in Korea to retire? When I say retirement I am defining it as moving back to their home country (not SE Asia), not working, and not having to rely on the government pension. If so, how long were they in Korea for to be able to achieve this situation? What is their quality of life in their home country?

Offline twinsaurus

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 84
  • Gender: Female
What are the good investments now I wonder.

Cryptocurrency and property in Korea (what a poster in this thread boasting about his wealth got in earlier) have certainly gone up but will they continue to go up? Some experts say they're in a bubble, so maybe not. You could get burned. Might not be as easy to replicate the success of the older guys on here. Think of the declining demographics. That might bring housing prices down...or at least slow their growth. 2008 until today saw huge stock market growth. People who got in then did well. I'm hearing warnings of a possible pullback. So buy stocks now at an all time high? Hard to know what to do.

This is needlessly apathetic and indecisive. If you knew even one thing about good investment, you wouldn't touch either cryptocurrency OR property in Korea with a ten-foot pole. A good investment is a safe investment; get into some diversified stock options and index funds and sure, it'll take a while but your wealth will grow slowly over time regardless of the health of the stock market at this particular moment. Being impatient or overly speculative is how people lose beaucoup bucks.

With regards to the 1m question, if you save 20 million per year and invest it at a cool 8% annual interest (very possible with careful investment), you will have more than 1bn KRW by the end of 20 years. It's certainly doable but lets be real, only the tiniest percentage of expats are in a position to make it there (me not included).

Online eggieguffer

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4177
  • Gender: Male
What are the good investments now I wonder.

Cryptocurrency and property in Korea (what a poster in this thread boasting about his wealth got in earlier) have certainly gone up but will they continue to go up? Some experts say they're in a bubble, so maybe not. You could get burned. Might not be as easy to replicate the success of the older guys on here. Think of the declining demographics. That might bring housing prices down...or at least slow their growth. 2008 until today saw huge stock market growth. People who got in then did well. I'm hearing warnings of a possible pullback. So buy stocks now at an all time high? Hard to know what to do.


This is needlessly apathetic and indecisive. If you knew even one thing about good investment, you wouldn't touch either cryptocurrency OR property in Korea with a ten-foot pole. A good investment is a safe investment; get into some diversified stock options and index funds and sure, it'll take a while but your wealth will grow slowly over time regardless of the health of the stock market at this particular moment. Being impatient or overly speculative is how people lose beaucoup bucks.

With regards to the 1m question, if you save 20 million per year and invest it at a cool 8% annual interest (very possible with careful investment), you will have more than 1bn KRW by the end of 20 years. It's certainly doable but lets be real, only the tiniest percentage of expats are in a position to make it there (me not included).

Someone else mentioned 8% earlier too. Is there a safe way to guarantee 8% interest these days? because I've never heard of it.

Online JNM

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3339
  • Gender: Male
What are the good investments now I wonder.

Cryptocurrency and property in Korea (what a poster in this thread boasting about his wealth got in earlier) have certainly gone up but will they continue to go up? Some experts say they're in a bubble, so maybe not. You could get burned. Might not be as easy to replicate the success of the older guys on here. Think of the declining demographics. That might bring housing prices down...or at least slow their growth. 2008 until today saw huge stock market growth. People who got in then did well. I'm hearing warnings of a possible pullback. So buy stocks now at an all time high? Hard to know what to do.


This is needlessly apathetic and indecisive. If you knew even one thing about good investment, you wouldn't touch either cryptocurrency OR property in Korea with a ten-foot pole. A good investment is a safe investment; get into some diversified stock options and index funds and sure, it'll take a while but your wealth will grow slowly over time regardless of the health of the stock market at this particular moment. Being impatient or overly speculative is how people lose beaucoup bucks.

With regards to the 1m question, if you save 20 million per year and invest it at a cool 8% annual interest (very possible with careful investment), you will have more than 1bn KRW by the end of 20 years. It's certainly doable but lets be real, only the tiniest percentage of expats are in a position to make it there (me not included).

Someone else mentioned 8% earlier too. Is there a safe way to guarantee 8% interest these days? because I've never heard of it.

In the 90s people talked about 10%. I never saw a real-life low risk portfolio so that.

You do need some risk in there to get 8-10%.


Offline Life Improvement

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2835
A Berkshire Hathaway stock averages about 20% per year. Safer than cryptocurrency or Korean property investments going forward for sure. But costs $325K for a share. Most English teachers here donít have that kind of disposable dough. But if you do, go for it.

Offline twinsaurus

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 84
  • Gender: Female
What are the good investments now I wonder.

Cryptocurrency and property in Korea (what a poster in this thread boasting about his wealth got in earlier) have certainly gone up but will they continue to go up? Some experts say they're in a bubble, so maybe not. You could get burned. Might not be as easy to replicate the success of the older guys on here. Think of the declining demographics. That might bring housing prices down...or at least slow their growth. 2008 until today saw huge stock market growth. People who got in then did well. I'm hearing warnings of a possible pullback. So buy stocks now at an all time high? Hard to know what to do.


This is needlessly apathetic and indecisive. If you knew even one thing about good investment, you wouldn't touch either cryptocurrency OR property in Korea with a ten-foot pole. A good investment is a safe investment; get into some diversified stock options and index funds and sure, it'll take a while but your wealth will grow slowly over time regardless of the health of the stock market at this particular moment. Being impatient or overly speculative is how people lose beaucoup bucks.

With regards to the 1m question, if you save 20 million per year and invest it at a cool 8% annual interest (very possible with careful investment), you will have more than 1bn KRW by the end of 20 years. It's certainly doable but lets be real, only the tiniest percentage of expats are in a position to make it there (me not included).

Someone else mentioned 8% earlier too. Is there a safe way to guarantee 8% interest these days? because I've never heard of it.

I think it's only possible if you're really hands-on with your investment. For example my husband and I sit down and talk about our investments and what to buy next once a month if not more often. He's checking on them at least twice a week. We do a fair amount of research about what the market is like and what is looking up in the next few years. Things like drone manufacturers, Amazon, pharmaceuticals, etc. I don't think we bought anything in the Korean market but we invested in the Indian and Vietnam stock market. We estimated that our return last year was just over 9% so it's doable. But it's probably more work than most people are willing to put into it. We had some bad luck as well and lost money a few times.

Offline some waygug-in

  • Super Waygook
  • ***
  • Posts: 381
  • Gender: Male
With regards to the 1m question, if you save 20 million per year and invest it at a cool 8% annual interest (very possible with careful investment), you will have more than 1bn KRW by the end of 20 years. It's certainly doable but lets be real, only the tiniest percentage of expats are in a position to make it there (me not included).

 :rolleyes:

Wages have not gone up much (if at all) since 2001.

When I was a hagwon jockey, I was very lucky to be able to save 10 million KW per year.   The first year I saved

about 6.  The second year I did save about 10 mil, but that was because I stayed on an extra 2 months.

 The third year I barely saved any because the hagwan had no money and was months behind in paying

my wages.  I think I was owed about 5 mil in back wages at the time I left.

   The fourth year I think I saved about 8 mil (I don't really remember). 

My point here is that your average hagwon job does not necessarily mean you will be saving tons.

My public school years were better, but still no where close to saving 20 mil a year.

I did know a few people who did teach a lot of private students and did quite well, but not many.

 I didn't do  private lessons because my time was worth more to me than the risk involved.

Aside from 1 private student my first year, I decided it just wasn't worth it.


Perhaps jobs in Seoul payed more, but then the cost of living was higher as well.   

I think people tend to exaggerate their saving potential somewhat. 



« Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 09:45:52 PM by some waygug-in »

Online eggieguffer

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4177
  • Gender: Male
What are the good investments now I wonder.

Cryptocurrency and property in Korea (what a poster in this thread boasting about his wealth got in earlier) have certainly gone up but will they continue to go up? Some experts say they're in a bubble, so maybe not. You could get burned. Might not be as easy to replicate the success of the older guys on here. Think of the declining demographics. That might bring housing prices down...or at least slow their growth. 2008 until today saw huge stock market growth. People who got in then did well. I'm hearing warnings of a possible pullback. So buy stocks now at an all time high? Hard to know what to do.


This is needlessly apathetic and indecisive. If you knew even one thing about good investment, you wouldn't touch either cryptocurrency OR property in Korea with a ten-foot pole. A good investment is a safe investment; get into some diversified stock options and index funds and sure, it'll take a while but your wealth will grow slowly over time regardless of the health of the stock market at this particular moment. Being impatient or overly speculative is how people lose beaucoup bucks.

With regards to the 1m question, if you save 20 million per year and invest it at a cool 8% annual interest (very possible with careful investment), you will have more than 1bn KRW by the end of 20 years. It's certainly doable but lets be real, only the tiniest percentage of expats are in a position to make it there (me not included).

Someone else mentioned 8% earlier too. Is there a safe way to guarantee 8% interest these days? because I've never heard of it.

I think it's only possible if you're really hands-on with your investment. For example my husband and I sit down and talk about our investments and what to buy next once a month if not more often. He's checking on them at least twice a week. We do a fair amount of research about what the market is like and what is looking up in the next few years. Things like drone manufacturers, Amazon, pharmaceuticals, etc. I don't think we bought anything in the Korean market but we invested in the Indian and Vietnam stock market. We estimated that our return last year was just over 9% so it's doable. But it's probably more work than most people are willing to put into it. We had some bad luck as well and lost money a few times.

If you're hands on with your investment, it's not by its nature a risk free investment. What I was talking about was putting your money in a high interest bank or building society account for a few years and being guaranteed a certain percentage every year. Before the big crash of 2008 this was possible and even worthwhile. The highest rate was around 6%. Someone mentioned it being as high as 10% in the 80s but I guess inflation was a lot higher. Kudos to you for mentioning you actually lost money by the way, it's something you very rarely see anyone admitting online and this can give people the wrong impression.

Offline gogators!

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3070
  • Gender: Male
This poster hit the nail on the head. 1 million us is very possible.

Save a million dollars in 20 years? In order to do that a person would have to save $50K a year, starting with their first year. Most NETs don't even earn that in a year. If they do, they are in their 40s or 50s (in the later half of their career) with the F visa from marrying a Korean citizen for the most part. Possible, yes. Likely, no. The norm, no. How much did you save per year when working in Korea, Thomas Mc? Since you left, GEPIK reduced its rate of pay (meaning adjusted for inflation way down).

When calculating total remuneration (meaning including money paid into one's retirement account) English teaching mostly pays well below the average/median/mean compared to similarly educated counterparts. Kind of worrying. But everything's a trade off. Pros and cons. Just don't exaggerate how rich EFL teachers typically become or how poor typical university grads become in the West. Follow the truth wherever it may take you. No matter how unpleasant. Hard not to let ego or insecurity get in the way, I know, but being armed with accurate information is the best way to strategize.
You invest it so it grows.

A good uni job with some summer/winter work and/or editing can bring in 50 million or better.

Offline gogators!

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3070
  • Gender: Male
Does any one know of anyone who has made enough in Korea to retire? When I say retirement I am defining it as moving back to their home country (not SE Asia), not working, and not having to rely on the government pension. If so, how long were they in Korea for to be able to achieve this situation? What is their quality of life in their home country?
Yes.
Seventeen years.
Great quality of life--wife works for an airline so always traveling affordably. Owns a small home in Vancouver.

Offline gogators!

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3070
  • Gender: Male
What are the good investments now I wonder.

Cryptocurrency and property in Korea (what a poster in this thread boasting about his wealth got in earlier) have certainly gone up but will they continue to go up? Some experts say they're in a bubble, so maybe not. You could get burned. Might not be as easy to replicate the success of the older guys on here. Think of the declining demographics. That might bring housing prices down...or at least slow their growth. 2008 until today saw huge stock market growth. People who got in then did well. I'm hearing warnings of a possible pullback. So buy stocks now at an all time high? Hard to know what to do.


This is needlessly apathetic and indecisive. If you knew even one thing about good investment, you wouldn't touch either cryptocurrency OR property in Korea with a ten-foot pole. A good investment is a safe investment; get into some diversified stock options and index funds and sure, it'll take a while but your wealth will grow slowly over time regardless of the health of the stock market at this particular moment. Being impatient or overly speculative is how people lose beaucoup bucks.

With regards to the 1m question, if you save 20 million per year and invest it at a cool 8% annual interest (very possible with careful investment), you will have more than 1bn KRW by the end of 20 years. It's certainly doable but lets be real, only the tiniest percentage of expats are in a position to make it there (me not included).

Someone else mentioned 8% earlier too. Is there a safe way to guarantee 8% interest these days? because I've never heard of it.

In the 90s people talked about 10%. I never saw a real-life low risk portfolio so that.

You do need some risk in there to get 8-10%.
Right--you'd probably have to be 100% stocks or close to it to get that kind of return.

Offline hangook77

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 666
  • Gender: Male
Consider thatís 20 years not paying into social security or a 401K. It takes well over a million dollars to be able to retire with dignity.

Well, it depends on whether or not you are paying into the Korean pension plan or changing jobs every year or two and cashing it out or not.  You have to pay into it for a minimum of 10 years or 120 months.  Keep your last pension statement, get a proof of employment and keep a copy of your alien ID and you can apply a monthly pension when you are 65.  You get more the longer you wait.  IE  Applying when you are 70 years old just like back home.  It's not a lot of money but something is better than nothing.  Say 12 years, about 280 US dollars a month assuming a modest exchange rate?  This is in today's dollars not future money value.  So, it will probably be more. 

Offline hangook77

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 666
  • Gender: Male
As for 20 years, it depends on when you started.  If you started 20 years ago, you would have more money if invested correctly than if you are starting your 20 years now in 2018.  Korea had a cheaper living cost and higher interest savings accounts up until a few years ago.  The Great Recession froze salaries and dropped interest rates.  Though some salaries are inching upwards, it is less with inflation than it was 10 to 12 years ago.  A 2.1 million salary over a decade ago would need to be 3.0 million.  This doesn't take into account worse exchange rates if you are American or British maybe too.  In 2007, 2 million won was 2100 bucks?  It was 2400 for Canadians.  Now, it is 1800 bucks or less for Americans today and hovers around 2200 to 2300 for Canadians.  Also, many hakwons now pull this one way flight garbage so you need an extra 100,000 a month in salary to make up for it.  So, a 2.1 million salary would have to be 2.2 million.  Add on inflation over the past 10 years and then more for the worse exchange rate, you'd be somewhere in the low to mid 3.0 millions?  There are plenty in the 2.3 to 2.6 or 2.7 range, but there are still some in the 2.1 to 2.3 range with one way flight. 

So, ask yourself where salary and living cost will be 10 years from now if you are starting now.  In 20 years, I suspect not much saved?  Korea is still ok in 2018, but nothing like what it was.  I can't imagine what it will be in the next decade.  Also minimum wage will soon be 10,000 won an hour and that will drive up the cost of goods and services.  Taxes may rise if there is more pressure for social spending increases.  So, I suspect several years from now, it may be more like Japan where you just get by and come for the "experience" instead of making money. 

My point is if you are young and debt laden, be frugal and pay off as much as you can while you can and then get out.  If you're American, you may have a good economy to return too.  Canada, more of a so-so kind of situation.  Also as an addition, North Korea may collapse in the next decade and South Korea may have to absorb it and spend money.  There may be higher taxes, less demand for teachers, etc.  No one really knows the future.  (On the other hand, I'd love to immediately go up and travel through the place after reunification.  It would be a site to see.)