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Author Topic: Why is Korea so stressful?  (Read 15952 times)

Offline alexisalex

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Re: Why is Korea so stressful?
« Reply #200 on: January 02, 2019, 09:13:58 AM »
Lol yeah sorry DeMartino but you're way off in this case. 

The school opened two hours later.  How can you possibly expect CypherSoul to guard against that happening?  In that situation it's 100% on the school to let them know that was going to happen.  What's this absolute nonsense about "welcome to being an immigrant"?  Nothing to do with that; it's common courtesy as JVPrice says.

Online Mister Tim

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Re: Why is Korea so stressful?
« Reply #201 on: January 02, 2019, 09:19:58 AM »
Perhaps he meant "Welcome to being an immigrant in Korea, where you might have to put in extra effort just to get the same information your coworkers are given as a matter of course."

That does make me wonder if it's like that for teachers elsewhere. I've only taught in Korea, so maybe someone else can chime in? Do schools in Japan or China only pass information along to the native teachers, while expecting foreign teachers to look it up themselves? Did my Spanish professors from Colombia and Venezuela have to go out of their way to find out things the American professors were told without having to ask first?

Those aren't leading questions, btw. I'm genuinely curious.

Online zola

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Re: Why is Korea so stressful?
« Reply #202 on: January 02, 2019, 09:28:44 AM »
The lack of planning, last minute decisions, not informing all staff of happenings etc is not something that only effects foreigners (or ""Immigrants"").
My Korean co-workers cuss and complain about more than I ever would, about not knowing when things are going to be cancelled, holidays set. My wife's old work place sounded like it was run by a lunatic with a fetish for chaos. They turned over staff like a minimum wage job, because generally people like to know what is happening week to week, month to month.

Also, I've worked in places back home were some of the staff were immigrants (as in moved to my country, brought all the family, intended to live there until they died). Some didn't have the greatest English(their job was dealing with overseas clients), so there were liaison systems put in place and translations given. If a member of staff was repeatedly kept in the dark, turning up to work when everyone else knew was a day off etc, I can imagine there would be a Ministry of Labour complaint coming from the worker and claims of racism. And rightly so.

They are legal workers and should be afforded the same courtesies as everyone else. It's not their job to go round trying to scrounge information, piece together shit and make on the fly translations. That is however what I and my co-workers are having to do. Always, always the last to know and usually from knowledge gained from digging around.

Why didn't you tell us earlier?
Oh, didn't you know? *chuckle*

Teaching in Japan, as you can imagine, the Japanese are pretty anal about organization. There was notice board in the staff room with all memos posted and translated. Holidays were set a year in advance.
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Offline confusedsafferinkorea

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Re: Why is Korea so stressful?
« Reply #203 on: January 02, 2019, 09:32:25 AM »
Friends, Romans and countrymen, no matter how wrong Koreans are, as pointed out in this thread, DeM will defend them till his dying day.

PS. DM, you called me out for the stats (rudely), I didn't draw them up and they are classified as countries no matter how much you kick and scream that they are not.
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Offline confusedsafferinkorea

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Re: Why is Korea so stressful?
« Reply #204 on: January 02, 2019, 09:39:57 AM »
Perhaps he meant "Welcome to being an immigrant in Korea, where you might have to put in extra effort just to get the same information your coworkers are given as a matter of course."

That does make me wonder if it's like that for teachers elsewhere. I've only taught in Korea, so maybe someone else can chime in? Do schools in Japan or China only pass information along to the native teachers, while expecting foreign teachers to look it up themselves? Did my Spanish professors from Colombia and Venezuela have to go out of their way to find out things the American professors were told without having to ask first?

Those aren't leading questions, btw. I'm genuinely curious.

I have taught in Taiwan and South Africa and on Day 1 you get a year planner with everything filled in.

Korea, not so much, as I said crises management. My last school I was at, the principal was always sitting in his office reading a book, I never saw him actually do any work in the 3 years I was there. He would also disappear for a week at a time. When I asked where he was, the teachers told me they have no idea, he just never pitched up and never told anyone where he was going/had been.

DM, I always translated messages, asked, inquired etc regularly and mostly the Korean teachers had absolutely no idea of what was happening, so please give me a break and stop being so critical and making wrong assumptions.

It is just lack of common courtesy and lack of planning, end of story.
Everything is not as it seems.

No one owes you anything.... get over it.

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Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Why is Korea so stressful?
« Reply #205 on: January 02, 2019, 10:15:44 AM »
Mr.DeMartino: What makes you think I don't do those things already? I have had jobs before and everyone was awarded the same courtesy of knowing things beforehand regardless of being an "immigrant" as you put it. I have done everything I can to fit into the culture but there are some that are just not acceptable. Also it helps being told about things like this so you aren't standing out side in -6 with no idea what's going on.

I don't want to sound rude here, but part of being an adult is getting the full picture before you start sounding off on things.

Thank you.  :angel:

It should be expected that you're afforded the same courtesy as the rest of the people in the same workplace. Being an adult, being an immigrant, having a job don't mean we have to put up with a bunch of bulls**t.

A voice of reason! Thank you.  :angel:

You're right I should have asked more for your specific context. I was making the point with the average ESLer who is overseas for the first time on their first job in mind. That isn't you and it was unfair to lump you in with them. All offices have their own culture and there are obvious cases where the school was inept or rude.

That being said, there are people here who are expecting not just to be treated the same, but to be treated special and without the same responsibilities. Most of the schools have a messenger program or a bulletin or a meeting where these are planned. It's rather natural for people to assume certain things are known. This is the real world and we do have to make our own way and we can't expect everyone to spend their free time thinking about US. We have made a choice to come over here and work and we have to be at least somewhat proactive.

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Why is Korea so stressful?
« Reply #206 on: January 02, 2019, 10:20:58 AM »
PS. DM, you called me out for the stats (rudely), I didn't draw them up and they are classified as countries no matter how much you kick and scream that they are not.
On the other hand, people like you will whine and moan about them no matter what they do. But if Koreans ever griped about you as constantly and as one-sidedly as you do about them, you'd have a conniption.

Quote
PS. DM, you called me out for the stats (rudely), I didn't draw them up and they are classified as countries no matter how much you kick and scream that they are not.
Only an idiot would use a city-state like Hong Kong as a way to say "Korea isn't one of the most densely populated countries on Earth." 

Korea IS one of the most densely populated countries on Earth.

Offline alexisalex

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Re: Why is Korea so stressful?
« Reply #207 on: January 02, 2019, 10:36:09 AM »
You're right I should have asked more for your specific context. I was making the point with the average ESLer who is overseas for the first time on their first job in mind. That isn't you and it was unfair to lump you in with them. All offices have their own culture and there are obvious cases where the school was inept or rude.

You do this ALL the time.  Blindly attack people first and then backtrack later or move the goalposts when everyone calls you out on it.

Online Life Improvement

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Re: Why is Korea so stressful?
« Reply #208 on: January 02, 2019, 11:10:53 AM »
alexisalex, are you going to move into a 1.4 billion won apartment in eggieguffer's building? It's a quiet place. Good for de-stressing.

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Stomp-walking, slamming doors, slamming cupboard doors, shout-talking, screaming inside, blaringly loud TVs/music etc.
Simple, get a decent apartment. If it means that much to you. Where I live is like a morgue.

Offline alexisalex

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Re: Why is Korea so stressful?
« Reply #209 on: January 02, 2019, 11:19:01 AM »
_______________________
Stomp-walking, slamming doors, slamming cupboard doors, shout-talking, screaming inside, blaringly loud TVs/music etc.
Simple, get a decent apartment. If it means that much to you. Where I live is like a morgue.

alexisalex, are you going to move into a 1.4 billion won apartment in eggieguffer's building? It's a quiet place. Good for de-stressing.

Haha yeah I didn't really know what to say when that was revealed! That's been my problem all along; not having 100 million key money + 2.5 million per month for the rent  :laugh:

I'm not sure if it's true but I did think it was strange how he kept dodging the question of how his place is so quiet.

Online eggieguffer

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Re: Why is Korea so stressful?
« Reply #210 on: January 02, 2019, 11:29:11 AM »
_______________________
Stomp-walking, slamming doors, slamming cupboard doors, shout-talking, screaming inside, blaringly loud TVs/music etc.
Simple, get a decent apartment. If it means that much to you. Where I live is like a morgue.

alexisalex, are you going to move into a 1.4 billion won apartment in eggieguffer's building? It's a quiet place. Good for de-stressing.

Haha yeah I didn't really know what to say when that was revealed! That's been my problem all along; not having 100 million key money + 2.5 million per month for the rent  :laugh:

I'm not sure if it's true but I did think it was strange how he kept dodging the question of how his place is so quiet.

A couple on reasonable salaries could do it. When I was moving out of my last place an American teaching couple came to look it over. That was going for 100 mil down and 2 mil a month. I agree it'd be tough for a singleton.

Offline theman3285

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Re: Why is Korea so stressful?
« Reply #211 on: January 02, 2019, 12:16:23 PM »
_______________________
Stomp-walking, slamming doors, slamming cupboard doors, shout-talking, screaming inside, blaringly loud TVs/music etc.
Simple, get a decent apartment. If it means that much to you. Where I live is like a morgue.

alexisalex, are you going to move into a 1.4 billion won apartment in eggieguffer's building? It's a quiet place. Good for de-stressing.

Haha yeah I didn't really know what to say when that was revealed! That's been my problem all along; not having 100 million key money + 2.5 million per month for the rent  :laugh:

I'm not sure if it's true but I did think it was strange how he kept dodging the question of how his place is so quiet.

A couple on reasonable salaries could do it. When I was moving out of my last place an American teaching couple came to look it over. That was going for 100 mil down and 2 mil a month. I agree it'd be tough for a singleton.
2 million for renting an apartment? :huh: Is that the going rate in Seoul or something?

I live in a medium sized city and we're renting our (three bedroom) apartment for 30 mil down and 500k pm. Sounds like we got a good deal lol.   

Offline CypherSoul

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Re: Why is Korea so stressful?
« Reply #212 on: January 02, 2019, 12:19:27 PM »
You're right I should have asked more for your specific context. I was making the point with the average ESLer who is overseas for the first time on their first job in mind. That isn't you and it was unfair to lump you in with them. All offices have their own culture and there are obvious cases where the school was inept or rude.

That being said, there are people here who are expecting not just to be treated the same, but to be treated special and without the same responsibilities. Most of the schools have a messenger program or a bulletin or a meeting where these are planned. It's rather natural for people to assume certain things are known. This is the real world and we do have to make our own way and we can't expect everyone to spend their free time thinking about US. We have made a choice to come over here and work and we have to be at least somewhat proactive.

Of course not. Sometimes you need to be your own person too and have some common sense (it might be hard for fresh grads but who doesn't struggle when they first start? We aren't born with the ability to adapt to everything perfectly, this takes time and practice).

Considering that most people don't know Korean before they move here and how much Korea invests in the native foreign teachers, the school/co-teacher should check with the foreign teachers in case they missed the memo. This is not special treatment, you're simply ensuring that your worker is on board too because their first language is not Korean. I saw everyone on Monday. I have 5 co-teachers at this school. You'd think word would get around somehow but nope. I had heard nothing

This is not the first time for me personally. I turn up to some lessons and am told by students I don't have class with them. School photo day...well someone forgot to tell me (although I generally dress up so it wasn't a problem) but the general things I hear are..."oh I am sorry, I forgot to tell you" or "oh I didn't tell you last week?" same with events. Exams. Everything basically. I find out on the day or 5 minutes beforehand. These things makes you feel isolated and that's not a good thing to have when you want someone to stay and work for you!

But on a positive note, my other school totally kicks ass. My 2 co-teachers are always on board. Always ensuring I know everything and generally warn me if things might change last minute the next time I come to school and then apologize for it (as if they made the decisions haha).
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 12:22:11 PM by CypherSoul »
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Offline confusedsafferinkorea

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Re: Why is Korea so stressful?
« Reply #213 on: January 02, 2019, 12:34:17 PM »
PS. DM, you called me out for the stats (rudely), I didn't draw them up and they are classified as countries no matter how much you kick and scream that they are not.
On the other hand, people like you will whine and moan about them no matter what they do. But if Koreans ever griped about you as constantly and as one-sidedly as you do about them, you'd have a conniption.

Quote
PS. DM, you called me out for the stats (rudely), I didn't draw them up and they are classified as countries no matter how much you kick and scream that they are not.
Only an idiot would use a city-state like Hong Kong as a way to say "Korea isn't one of the most densely populated countries on Earth." 

Korea IS one of the most densely populated countries on Earth.

Sorry to disappoint you but they had no reason to complain about me, I was Teacher of the Year twice in 6 years.

You also misread my whole post, I said I didn't find life stressful in Korea, I just pointed out that they are incredibly disorganised (my schools) and this is borne out by what others have said. 

As for me being an 'idiot' well as I said I didn't compile the stats, so they are the idiots not me.

I noticed too you have recently taken to insulting people who you may not agree with. That doesn't say much for your character. It is not necessary to be insulting to those who just happen to disagree with the all-knowing, Korea defending to the last breath, DeM.  It is uncalled for.
Everything is not as it seems.

No one owes you anything.... get over it.

NEVER think a failure is the end of the world, it is the beginning of a new opportunity.

There is no known medical cure for stupidity!

Online Mister Tim

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Re: Why is Korea so stressful?
« Reply #214 on: January 02, 2019, 12:38:33 PM »
Considering that most people don't know Korean before they move here and how much Korea invests in the native foreign teachers, the school/co-teacher should check with the foreign teachers in case they missed the memo. This is not special treatment, you're simply ensuring that your worker is on board too because their first language is not Korean.

If you're EPIK, then technically there should be someone at your school who's been assigned the duty of making sure you're in the loop on important things, just like some teachers are in charge of the school discipline committee and others are in charge of planning teacher outings. If you're being kept out of the loop, someone is dropping the ball. That or they have a different definition of what exactly counts as an "important thing."  :laugh:

I think that only applies to your main school, though, so if you have problems at a travel school then I'm not sure there are really any systems in place to make sure you're up to speed. That'd definitely be a "try your best to keep yourself informed" sort of situation, unfortunately.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 12:40:09 PM by Mister Tim »

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Why is Korea so stressful?
« Reply #215 on: January 02, 2019, 12:43:56 PM »
Sorry to disappoint you but they had no reason to complain about me, I was Teacher of the Year twice in 6 years.

You also misread my whole post, I said I didn't find life stressful in Korea, I just pointed out that they are incredibly disorganised (my schools) and this is borne out by what others have said. 
Could of fooled me with how much you come on here to gripe about the place despite living elsewhere.

Quote
As for me being an 'idiot' well as I said I didn't compile the stats, so they are the idiots not me.
It's not the stats themselves that are wrong, it's your interpretation of them.

Quote
I noticed too you have recently taken to insulting people who you may not agree with. That doesn't say much for your character. It is not necessary to be insulting to those who just happen to disagree with the all-knowing, Korea defending to the last breath, DeM.  It is uncalled for.

You're right. I don't know you. Maybe geography and interpreting data isn't your thing. Maybe you're more big on music or literature or whatever. If you can't tell San Marino from San Francisco, that would make sense just as I might confuse some blindingly obvious thing related to calculus.

Offline alexisalex

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Re: Why is Korea so stressful?
« Reply #216 on: January 02, 2019, 12:45:35 PM »
_______________________
Stomp-walking, slamming doors, slamming cupboard doors, shout-talking, screaming inside, blaringly loud TVs/music etc.
Simple, get a decent apartment. If it means that much to you. Where I live is like a morgue.

alexisalex, are you going to move into a 1.4 billion won apartment in eggieguffer's building? It's a quiet place. Good for de-stressing.

Haha yeah I didn't really know what to say when that was revealed! That's been my problem all along; not having 100 million key money + 2.5 million per month for the rent  :laugh:

I'm not sure if it's true but I did think it was strange how he kept dodging the question of how his place is so quiet.

A couple on reasonable salaries could do it. When I was moving out of my last place an American teaching couple came to look it over. That was going for 100 mil down and 2 mil a month. I agree it'd be tough for a singleton.
2 million for renting an apartment? :huh: Is that the going rate in Seoul or something?

I live in a medium sized city and we're renting our (three bedroom) apartment for 30 mil down and 500k pm. Sounds like we got a good deal lol.

But can you hear your neighbours?  :wink:

If there's a magical price that you have to pay to guarantee that you won't hear your neighbours (next to and above) then I'd love to know what it is and then at least I can work towards it lol.

Online eggieguffer

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Re: Why is Korea so stressful?
« Reply #217 on: January 02, 2019, 12:54:41 PM »
_______________________
Stomp-walking, slamming doors, slamming cupboard doors, shout-talking, screaming inside, blaringly loud TVs/music etc.
Simple, get a decent apartment. If it means that much to you. Where I live is like a morgue.

alexisalex, are you going to move into a 1.4 billion won apartment in eggieguffer's building? It's a quiet place. Good for de-stressing.

Haha yeah I didn't really know what to say when that was revealed! That's been my problem all along; not having 100 million key money + 2.5 million per month for the rent  :laugh:

I'm not sure if it's true but I did think it was strange how he kept dodging the question of how his place is so quiet.

A couple on reasonable salaries could do it. When I was moving out of my last place an American teaching couple came to look it over. That was going for 100 mil down and 2 mil a month. I agree it'd be tough for a singleton.
2 million for renting an apartment? :huh: Is that the going rate in Seoul or something?

I live in a medium sized city and we're renting our (three bedroom) apartment for 30 mil down and 500k pm. Sounds like we got a good deal lol.

And your apartment's probably worth a quarter of what it would be in central Seoul so it's to be expected. You're lucky that, unlike Koreans you don't have to flock to the capital to get a decent job. What's the soundproofing like?

Offline theman3285

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Re: Why is Korea so stressful?
« Reply #218 on: January 02, 2019, 01:00:23 PM »
_______________________
Stomp-walking, slamming doors, slamming cupboard doors, shout-talking, screaming inside, blaringly loud TVs/music etc.
Simple, get a decent apartment. If it means that much to you. Where I live is like a morgue.

alexisalex, are you going to move into a 1.4 billion won apartment in eggieguffer's building? It's a quiet place. Good for de-stressing.

Haha yeah I didn't really know what to say when that was revealed! That's been my problem all along; not having 100 million key money + 2.5 million per month for the rent  :laugh:

I'm not sure if it's true but I did think it was strange how he kept dodging the question of how his place is so quiet.

A couple on reasonable salaries could do it. When I was moving out of my last place an American teaching couple came to look it over. That was going for 100 mil down and 2 mil a month. I agree it'd be tough for a singleton.
2 million for renting an apartment? :huh: Is that the going rate in Seoul or something?

I live in a medium sized city and we're renting our (three bedroom) apartment for 30 mil down and 500k pm. Sounds like we got a good deal lol.

But can you hear your neighbours?  :wink:

If there's a magical price that you have to pay to guarantee that you won't hear your neighbours (next to and above) then I'd love to know what it is and then at least I can work towards it lol.
Truth. The last twelve months have been effing terrible for me. We've only just moved into the new place and already the elephants are stampeding above.

I got my school to move me out of my previous place (offistel with the thinnest walls/floors EVER) 6 months into the contract because HOLY CRAP. My neighbors were all shift-workers (I lived near a massive chemical complex) as well as inconsiderate douchebags. Banging shit around, ALL DAMN NIGHT on all damn sides. I'm not even exaggerating. I lost so much sleep in those 6 months, I'm convinced I've lost a few IQ points.

Anyway, we're in a standard Korean high-rise apartment now. I should probably man up and talk to them face to face this time, instead of leaving passive aggressive notes all over the building like last time (which did absolutely nothing, by the way).   

Offline confusedsafferinkorea

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Re: Why is Korea so stressful?
« Reply #219 on: January 02, 2019, 01:00:40 PM »
Quote
I noticed too you have recently taken to insulting people who you may not agree with. That doesn't say much for your character. It is not necessary to be insulting to those who just happen to disagree with the all-knowing, Korea defending to the last breath, DeM.  It is uncalled for.

You're right. I don't know you. Maybe geography and interpreting data isn't your thing. Maybe you're more big on music or literature or whatever. If you can't tell San Marino from San Francisco, that would make sense just as I might confuse some blindingly obvious thing related to calculus.



I never said anything about your not knowing me (that is true, you don't), I said you are rude to those you don't see eye to eye with and that is not necessary.

I am perfectly able to interpreting data and Geography, thank you. It is you that just blindly defends Korea no matter what. I understand you are nationalistic and of Korean ethnicity but to blindly defend 'your' country and not acknowledge it has faults is a little crazy. I love my country as much if not more than the next South African but I NEVER defend what is wrong with my country and believe me there are many things wrong. I am the first to admit the wrongs in my country. Does this make me disloyal? No. I think you are scared that your relatives, friends (of Korean origin or actual Koreans) will disown you should you say one thing negative about Korea.

Anyway, no point in discussing this any further. Is Korea terrible? NO, is Korea perfect as you see it, NO. Just for once admit that not everything Korean is correct and all of us foreigners are automatically wrong and need an attitude adjustment.
Everything is not as it seems.

No one owes you anything.... get over it.

NEVER think a failure is the end of the world, it is the beginning of a new opportunity.

There is no known medical cure for stupidity!