October 23, 2018, 11:42:42 PM


Author Topic: harassment leads to call for more women in management.  (Read 4176 times)

Online eggieguffer

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Re: harassment leads to call for more women in management.
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2018, 05:22:10 PM »
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jobs.

A new study, by researchers at Northwestern University, Harvard, and the Institute for Social Research in Norway, looked at every available field experiment on hiring discrimination from 1989 through 2015. The researchers found that anti-black racism in hiring is unchanged since at least 1989, while anti-Latino racism may have decreased modestly.

In total, the researchers produced 24 studies with 30 estimates of discrimination for black and Latino Americans, collectively representing more than 54,000 applications submitted for more than 25,000 positions.

They concluded that, on average, “white applicants receive 36% more callbacks than equally qualified African Americans” while “[w]hite applicants receive on average 24% more callbacks than Latinos.”

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Racial discrimination continues to be pervasive in cultures throughout the world. Researchers examined the level of racial discrimination in the United States labor market by randomly assigning identical résumés black-sounding or white-sounding names and observing the impact on requests for interviews from employers. Results found that résumés with white-sounding names received 50 percent more callbacks than those with black names, indicating that, all other things being equal, race is still an important factor in the American labor market.

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Women suffer serious discrimination in hiring for jobs in mathematics, making them far less likely to be selected for new positions, a study on gender discrimination has found.
Researchers from three of the nation’s top business schools examined why women make up such a small portion of those studying or working in math and science, even though they outnumber men in overall undergraduate enrollment, according to a new study published this week.

We can all quote studies. The key is who was carrying them out and what did they hope to find. Here's an interesting one, which I'm sure you'll disregard.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-30/bilnd-recruitment-trial-to-improve-gender-equality-failing-study/8664888

Offline gogators!

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Re: harassment leads to call for more women in management.
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2018, 07:43:09 PM »
Quote
Quote
jobs.

A new study, by researchers at Northwestern University, Harvard, and the Institute for Social Research in Norway, looked at every available field experiment on hiring discrimination from 1989 through 2015. The researchers found that anti-black racism in hiring is unchanged since at least 1989, while anti-Latino racism may have decreased modestly.

In total, the researchers produced 24 studies with 30 estimates of discrimination for black and Latino Americans, collectively representing more than 54,000 applications submitted for more than 25,000 positions.

They concluded that, on average, “white applicants receive 36% more callbacks than equally qualified African Americans” while “[w]hite applicants receive on average 24% more callbacks than Latinos.”

Quote
Racial discrimination continues to be pervasive in cultures throughout the world. Researchers examined the level of racial discrimination in the United States labor market by randomly assigning identical résumés black-sounding or white-sounding names and observing the impact on requests for interviews from employers. Results found that résumés with white-sounding names received 50 percent more callbacks than those with black names, indicating that, all other things being equal, race is still an important factor in the American labor market.

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Women suffer serious discrimination in hiring for jobs in mathematics, making them far less likely to be selected for new positions, a study on gender discrimination has found.
Researchers from three of the nation’s top business schools examined why women make up such a small portion of those studying or working in math and science, even though they outnumber men in overall undergraduate enrollment, according to a new study published this week.

We can all quote studies. The key is who was carrying them out and what did they hope to find. Here's an interesting one, which I'm sure you'll disregard.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-30/bilnd-recruitment-trial-to-improve-gender-equality-failing-study/8664888
From the article you linked:

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Last year, the Australia Bureau of Statistics doubled its proportion of female bosses by using blind recruitment.
There's more to this story than meets the eye, I'd say.

Online eggieguffer

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Re: harassment leads to call for more women in management.
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2018, 11:53:10 PM »
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From the article you linked:

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Last year, the Australia Bureau of Statistics doubled its proportion of female bosses by using blind recruitment.
There's more to this story than meets the eye, I'd say.

The survey claims people are more likely to hire a female boss when they can see their details, so maybe that intake would have  more than doubled the number of female bosses if they hadn't used blind recruitment.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 11:55:06 PM by eggieguffer »

Online eggieguffer

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Re: harassment leads to call for more women in management.
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2018, 04:59:20 AM »
Guess what, the Hollywood Women Time's Up pressure group are also using the Weinstein sex scandal to push for quotas. Companies who don't achieve these figures will be shamed in the media and will end up turning down better qualified men who have done nothing wrong, for top jobs simply because their gender is more likely to indulge in or foster an atmosphere of sexual harassment.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/01/times-up-hollywood-women-launch-campaign-to-fight-sexual-harassment

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The group is also pushing for film companies to agree to target a “fifty-fifty” gender split on their boards to counter male dominance at the top of the industry.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2018, 06:46:24 AM by eggieguffer »

Offline gogators!

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Re: harassment leads to call for more women in management.
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2018, 10:49:07 AM »
Guess what, the Hollywood Women Time's Up pressure group are also using the Weinstein sex scandal to push for quotas. Companies who don't achieve these figures will be shamed in the media and will end up turning down better qualified men who have done nothing wrong, for top jobs simply because their gender is more likely to indulge in or foster an atmosphere of sexual harassment.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/01/times-up-hollywood-women-launch-campaign-to-fight-sexual-harassment

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The group is also pushing for film companies to agree to target a “fifty-fifty” gender split on their boards to counter male dominance at the top of the industry.
Good for them.

"Better qualified men"--according to who?

Online eggieguffer

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Re: harassment leads to call for more women in management.
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2018, 11:46:58 AM »
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Good for them.

Great, so you're in favour of sexual discrimination.

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"Better qualified men"--according to who?

According to the people who run the film companies I guess. You know, the ones who for all these years have been appointing people based on their desire to oppress women, rather than any interest in making a profit.

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Re: harassment leads to call for more women in management.
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2018, 01:30:47 PM »
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Good for them.

Great, so you're in favour of sexual discrimination.

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"Better qualified men"--according to who?

According to the people who run the film companies I guess. You know, the ones who for all these years have been appointing people based on their desire to oppress women, rather than any interest in making a profit.
Nope, I'm in favor of those who are being discriminated against standing up for their rights.

"I guess." That comment was not in the article you linked to. Where's it from?

Online JNM

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Re: harassment leads to call for more women in management.
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2018, 01:52:48 PM »
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Good for them.

Great, so you're in favour of sexual discrimination.

Quote
"Better qualified men"--according to who?

According to the people who run the film companies I guess. You know, the ones who for all these years have been appointing people based on their desire to oppress women, rather than any interest in making a profit.
Nope, I'm in favor of those who are being discriminated against standing up for their rights.

"I guess." That comment was not in the article you linked to. Where's it from?

The solution to discrimination should never be more discrimination.

Quotas and targets are flawed because the best person can be skipped over.

I know of a fire department that wanted to hire 6 new firefighters as trainees... no experience needed, but they needed a “pass” on physical and academic screening.

In the name of diversity, they hired the best 3 men, and the best 3 women.  Those 3 women met the requirements, but were all ranked lower than 6th overall.

The 4th through 6th ranked men were clearly discriminated against.








Online eggieguffer

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Re: harassment leads to call for more women in management.
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2018, 01:53:51 PM »
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Nope, I'm in favor of those who are being discriminated against standing up for their rights.

Me too, but I think you should be honest about how you see this being achieved. Having quotas necessitates discriminating against some candidates based on their gender. If you think that's a price worth paying you should say so.

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"I guess." That comment was not in the article you linked to. Where's it from?

I don't get what your problem is with this concept. The people who decide who's on the board of film companies are the people or person who runs the film company. Why is this difficult to comprehend? Are you just trying to be snidey for the sake of it?

Online eggieguffer

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Re: harassment leads to call for more women in management.
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2018, 02:00:49 PM »
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Good for them.

Great, so you're in favour of sexual discrimination.

Quote
"Better qualified men"--according to who?

According to the people who run the film companies I guess. You know, the ones who for all these years have been appointing people based on their desire to oppress women, rather than any interest in making a profit.
Nope, I'm in favor of those who are being discriminated against standing up for their rights.

"I guess." That comment was not in the article you linked to. Where's it from?

The solution to discrimination should never be more discrimination.

Quotas and targets are flawed because the best person can be skipped over.

I know of a fire department that wanted to hire 6 new firefighters as trainees... no experience needed, but they needed a “pass” on physical and academic screening.

In the name of diversity, they hired the best 3 men, and the best 3 women.  Those 3 women met the requirements, but were all ranked lower than 6th overall.

The 4th through 6th ranked men were clearly discriminated against.

Yep, so who would you want trying to break a door down to rescue you from a fire? The best woman for the job or the 7th best man? Gogators would obviously choose the woman.

Offline gogators!

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Re: harassment leads to call for more women in management.
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2018, 04:22:25 PM »
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Nope, I'm in favor of those who are being discriminated against standing up for their rights.

Me too, but I think you should be honest about how you see this being achieved. Having quotas necessitates discriminating against some candidates based on their gender. If you think that's a price worth paying you should say so.

Quote
"I guess." That comment was not in the article you linked to. Where's it from?

I don't get what your problem is with this concept. The people who decide who's on the board of film companies are the people or person who runs the film company. Why is this difficult to comprehend? Are you just trying to be snidey for the sake of it?
There's nothing snide about asking who you are quoting and from where since it wasn;t in the article you linked to.

Blind hiring is not equivalent to quotas.

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Re: harassment leads to call for more women in management.
« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2018, 04:38:54 PM »
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Good for them.

Great, so you're in favour of sexual discrimination.

Quote
"Better qualified men"--according to who?

According to the people who run the film companies I guess. You know, the ones who for all these years have been appointing people based on their desire to oppress women, rather than any interest in making a profit.
Nope, I'm in favor of those who are being discriminated against standing up for their rights.

"I guess." That comment was not in the article you linked to. Where's it from?

The solution to discrimination should never be more discrimination.

Quotas and targets are flawed because the best person can be skipped over.

I know of a fire department that wanted to hire 6 new firefighters as trainees... no experience needed, but they needed a “pass” on physical and academic screening.

In the name of diversity, they hired the best 3 men, and the best 3 women.  Those 3 women met the requirements, but were all ranked lower than 6th overall.

The 4th through 6th ranked men were clearly discriminated against.
Absolutes often don't address real-world problems.

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Fewer than 4 percent of the nation's firefighters are women, and more than half of paid fire departments have never hired a female firefighter, finds a new report issued by Cornell's Institute for Women and Work in the ILR School in partnership with several co-authors.

"The underrepresentation of women in firefighting is an alarming inequity that needs to be immediately addressed," said Francine Moccio, director of the institute and co-author of the report, "A National Report Card on Women in Firefighting," which was presented at the International Association of Women in Fire and Emergency Services meeting, April 24, in Phoenix.

"Women are not getting recruited and hired because of an occupational culture that is exclusionary and unequal employment practices in recruiting, hiring, assigning and promoting women generally -- and women of color in particular -- in fire service," Moccio added.

The "discrimination" the three men faced can't be compared to the discrimination women have faced/are facing.

The three women trainees potentially add more to the three higher scoring candidates. (It would be interesting to know just how higher they scored.)

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Incorporating new ideas from women can improve safety in traditionally male fire departments, but the hypermasculine culture in some can make female firefighters feel unwelcome and less likely to share their ideas, according to a new qualitative study from Drexel University.



 

Online eggieguffer

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Re: harassment leads to call for more women in management.
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2018, 04:40:51 PM »
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Blind hiring is not equivalent to quotas.

'Time's Up' are pushing for a fifty fifty gender split in film company boardrooms. This is a quota. You expressed support for this intention, therefore you support quotas.

Offline gogators!

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Re: harassment leads to call for more women in management.
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2018, 04:42:51 PM »
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Good for them.

Great, so you're in favour of sexual discrimination.

Quote
"Better qualified men"--according to who?

According to the people who run the film companies I guess. You know, the ones who for all these years have been appointing people based on their desire to oppress women, rather than any interest in making a profit.
Nope, I'm in favor of those who are being discriminated against standing up for their rights.

"I guess." That comment was not in the article you linked to. Where's it from?

The solution to discrimination should never be more discrimination.

Quotas and targets are flawed because the best person can be skipped over.

I know of a fire department that wanted to hire 6 new firefighters as trainees... no experience needed, but they needed a “pass” on physical and academic screening.

In the name of diversity, they hired the best 3 men, and the best 3 women.  Those 3 women met the requirements, but were all ranked lower than 6th overall.

The 4th through 6th ranked men were clearly discriminated against.

Yep, so who would you want trying to break a door down to rescue you from a fire? The best woman for the job or the 7th best man? Gogators would obviously choose the woman.
Go ahead and stick with the men. As for me:


Offline gogators!

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Re: harassment leads to call for more women in management.
« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2018, 04:43:44 PM »
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Blind hiring is not equivalent to quotas.

'Time's Up' are pushing for a fifty fifty gender split in film company boardrooms. This is a quota. You expressed support for this intention, therefore you support quotas.
That's their goal--it's not a quota.

Online eggieguffer

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Re: harassment leads to call for more women in management.
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2018, 04:50:20 PM »
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Blind hiring is not equivalent to quotas.

'Time's Up' are pushing for a fifty fifty gender split in film company boardrooms. This is a quota. You expressed support for this intention, therefore you support quotas.
That's their goal--it's not a quota.

That's pretty naive. The way it works is the pressure group push for a fifty fifty split backed up by the media, and companies under pressure issue directives to hiring staff to attain certain targets in order to get the media off their backs and show they support equality in the workplace. A company is depicted as having 'failed', the further away from the fifty fifty split it reaches. Regardless of whether it employed the best people or not, or what split of applications there were.

Their goal should be to end sexual discrimination in the workplace. A 50/50 split in the boardroom would be no evidence that this had occurred. Neither would an 80/20 split be any evidence that it hadn't.

To go back to my earlier example, would you like to see TV companies under pressure to attain a goal of a 50/50 gender split in the number of comedians on TV, or would you prefer TV bosses to broadcast people simply based on how funny they are?
« Last Edit: January 03, 2018, 06:32:45 PM by eggieguffer »

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Re: harassment leads to call for more women in management.
« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2018, 08:57:53 PM »
Quote
Blind hiring is not equivalent to quotas.

'Time's Up' are pushing for a fifty fifty gender split in film company boardrooms. This is a quota. You expressed support for this intention, therefore you support quotas.
That's their goal--it's not a quota.

That's pretty naive. The way it works is the pressure group push for a fifty fifty split backed up by the media, and companies under pressure issue directives to hiring staff to attain certain targets in order to get the media off their backs and show they support equality in the workplace. A company is depicted as having 'failed', the further away from the fifty fifty split it reaches. Regardless of whether it employed the best people or not, or what split of applications there were.

Their goal should be to end sexual discrimination in the workplace. A 50/50 split in the boardroom would be no evidence that this had occurred. Neither would an 80/20 split be any evidence that it hadn't.

To go back to my earlier example, would you like to see TV companies under pressure to attain a goal of a 50/50 gender split in the number of comedians on TV, or would you prefer TV bosses to broadcast people simply based on how funny they are?
I think it's naive to assume that they're going to be supporting non-qualified candidates. When you talk about "the way it works," are you speaking from experience? Or from any real evidence?

One person's funny is another's boring. If you don't like the comedian change the channel.


Online Chester Jim

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Re: harassment leads to call for more women in management.
« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2018, 09:03:19 PM »
The government has no business extorting business and telling it who to hire.   This title should be liberals have yet to give up divisive identity politics
Bonzai!

Online eggieguffer

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Re: harassment leads to call for more women in management.
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2018, 10:18:30 PM »
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I think it's naive to assume that they're going to be supporting non-qualified candidates. When you talk about "the way it works," are you speaking from experience? Or from any real evidence.

Who said anything about 'non qualified candidates' ? I said 'better qualified'  As in they have more experience, ticked more boxes at interview etc... Etc..

I have worked on hiring committees at a UK company and saw no evidence of racism or sexism against minorities. What would have been in it for the people doing the hiring? I did see some evidence of 'goals' and pressure from higher up to hire more minorities. E.g they were desperate to hire someone disabled and would have taken them over 'better qualified' candidates at the drop of a hat. On one occasion a female boss hired a woman because she thought there weren't enough women in the department and a stronger male candidate got passed over.

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One person's funny is another's boring. If you don't like the comedian change the channel.

You're avoiding answering the question and I think we all know why.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2018, 10:25:37 PM by eggieguffer »

Online JNM

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Re: harassment leads to call for more women in management.
« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2018, 10:26:03 PM »
Quote
Good for them.

Great, so you're in favour of sexual discrimination.

Quote
"Better qualified men"--according to who?

According to the people who run the film companies I guess. You know, the ones who for all these years have been appointing people based on their desire to oppress women, rather than any interest in making a profit.
Nope, I'm in favor of those who are being discriminated against standing up for their rights.

"I guess." That comment was not in the article you linked to. Where's it from?

The solution to discrimination should never be more discrimination.

Quotas and targets are flawed because the best person can be skipped over.

I know of a fire department that wanted to hire 6 new firefighters as trainees... no experience needed, but they needed a “pass” on physical and academic screening.

In the name of diversity, they hired the best 3 men, and the best 3 women.  Those 3 women met the requirements, but were all ranked lower than 6th overall.

The 4th through 6th ranked men were clearly discriminated against.
Absolutes often don't address real-world problems.

Quote
Fewer than 4 percent of the nation's firefighters are women, and more than half of paid fire departments have never hired a female firefighter, finds a new report issued by Cornell's Institute for Women and Work in the ILR School in partnership with several co-authors.

"The underrepresentation of women in firefighting is an alarming inequity that needs to be immediately addressed," said Francine Moccio, director of the institute and co-author of the report, "A National Report Card on Women in Firefighting," which was presented at the International Association of Women in Fire and Emergency Services meeting, April 24, in Phoenix.

"Women are not getting recruited and hired because of an occupational culture that is exclusionary and unequal employment practices in recruiting, hiring, assigning and promoting women generally -- and women of color in particular -- in fire service," Moccio added.

The "discrimination" the three men faced can't be compared to the discrimination women have faced/are facing.

The three women trainees potentially add more to the three higher scoring candidates. (It would be interesting to know just how higher they scored.)

Quote
Incorporating new ideas from women can improve safety in traditionally male fire departments, but the hypermasculine culture in some can make female firefighters feel unwelcome and less likely to share their ideas, according to a new qualitative study from Drexel University.

“Qualitative study”?