November 18, 2018, 02:53:06 PM


Author Topic: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.  (Read 24677 times)

Offline weigookin74

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Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #280 on: August 31, 2017, 10:02:18 AM »
George Soros funded distractions.  These and similar protests have been occurring for the last few years (even before Trump came along).  Maybe if some impressionable young people get stirred up and a few paid agitators get everyone else going, then they won't notice the lack of good jobs and chance at a middle class lifestyle.  Those who saw through the smoke and mirrors with an aversion to bullshit voted for Trump.  Maybe, he'll succeed or maybe he won't.  But, it was a big F U to the establishment.  I guess it depends on how much the Repubs and Dems keep trying to block him.  Big money is what most the politicians follow.  Soros, Koch brothers, etc.  They want to block Trump all the way.  If he succeeds in bringing back good paying jobs; then folks will be more independent and won't be dependent on the government nor will outside agitators be able to stir people up as easily as now.  All, these protests are stupid diversionary wedge issues and a distraction from what the politicians of all stripes have been doing for the past 20 years or so and that's screwing you. 

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #281 on: August 31, 2017, 10:44:50 AM »
You tried to argue that Lee had his slaves whipped and brine rubbed in the wounds because he was a military man and confused treated his plantation for the like a barracks.

Yes. I give no value judgment on his actions there. Only to say that he was a military man with a stern sense of discipline regarding himself and how subordinate should behave. The normal penalty for desertion in wartime was hanging. Firing squad if you were lucky. In peacetime or in camp between battles the standard punishment at the time was.....flogging.

Lee treated his slaves the same way men under his command would be treated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertion

You can say that both punishments are harsh and wrong, but you cannot say that Lee's punishment for escaped slaves was cruel especially considering his profession as a soldier.

Offline Arabin

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Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #282 on: August 31, 2017, 11:16:32 AM »
You tried to argue that Lee had his slaves whipped and brine rubbed in the wounds because he was a military man and confused treated his plantation for the like a barracks.

Yes. I give no value judgment on his actions there. Only to say that he was a military man with a stern sense of discipline regarding himself and how subordinate should behave. The normal penalty for desertion in wartime was hanging. Firing squad if you were lucky. In peacetime or in camp between battles the standard punishment at the time was.....flogging.

Lee treated his slaves the same way men under his command would be treated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertion

You can say that both punishments are harsh and wrong, but you cannot say that Lee's punishment for escaped slaves was cruel especially considering his profession as a soldier.


Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #283 on: August 31, 2017, 12:02:17 PM »
If you think what I wrote supports slavery, I'm sorry. I have tried to explain things as best I can. I don't think there is any serious academic who would read what I wrote and think "He's supporting slavery" outside of perhaps the extreme SJW-professors. Might they think it's an apology? Perhaps, but they certainly wouldn't leap to "YOU SUPPORT SLAVERY!".

If you can't discuss things in a mature and learned manner, befitting a college graduate, and instead can only respond with .jpgs, then we're done here.

Offline Arabin

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Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #284 on: August 31, 2017, 12:11:55 PM »
.

If you can't discuss things in a mature and learned manner, befitting a college graduate, and instead can only respond with .jpgs, then we're done here.

I can do video too. Everybody likes a song


Online gogators!

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Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #285 on: August 31, 2017, 01:45:58 PM »
Is there some axiom saying that the less sense the post makes the less chance there is that the author uses paragraphs? (dm/sr seems to be the exception.)

BTW, dm/sr, I hope you've got a good pair of work gloves to protect your hands while you dig yourself ever deeper.


Online MayorHaggar

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Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #286 on: August 31, 2017, 02:14:26 PM »
While confederate statues aren't an issue I would normally get worked up about, I can't help but notice that there seems to have been a disturbing trend in recent years coming from college millennial of an entitlement that if " it offends you then it is okay to act as violent or uncivilized as possible to get rid of it." Events that took place a Berkley, The occupation of Evergreen, this most recent round of "Confederates... Muh Racism....Muh offensive..." are just the most recent in what has been a growing tide of intellectual protectionism and group think on college campuses. I remember a few years back when I was working on a masters degree, Christina Hoff Summers did a lecture at our school I was shocked by all the calls from students wanting her banned from campus, I could understand if it was Anne Coulter or Milo Yinnonoplis, I would still be against banning them but at least with the more firebrand and provocative speakers I can understand the impulse. However Christina Hoff Summers is far from a provocateur, she is an academic who may make strong criticisms of feminism, but always in a professional manner done with academic decorum. When I saw the conduct of students at the lecture, namely the ones who were opposed to Summers viewpoints I was even more disgusted that students of an institution of higher learning had such little self control and self respect as to act like a unruly mob rather than attendants of a lecture. There were frequent interruptions of the speaker, constant jeering, and when the Q&A section came no one student could fashion an effective question or criticism. It just turned into a contest of who could use the most buzz words in an attempt to label Summers as a misogynist, racist, Rape apologist. If this is now the standard for college students then I shutter to think what our Universities will look like in 20 years time, places where only one type of thought is taught and everything else is deemed offensive and forbidden. Some where along the line we never taught students how to deal with contradictory opinions or being offended. Now we have a whole group of self indulgent intellectual partisans.

Eh, still beats trying to destroy America by starting a massive civil war to defend slavery.

Offline Aurata

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Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #287 on: September 12, 2017, 11:43:45 PM »
Eh, still beats trying to destroy America by starting a massive civil war to defend slavery.

You don't even know the history of your own country.

Hate to break it to you ..but the civil war was not to defend slavery.

That is an artistic moralistic reconstruction. Another piece of propaganda you swallowed without question.

You think the northern states were against slavery?

Then why did congress, consisting only of the Northern states, pass overwhelmingly on March 2, 1861, on the eve of the war itself, the Corwin Amendment that gave constitutional protection to slavery.

Lincoln endorsed the amendment in his inaugural address, saying “I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable.”

Try harder.



Imagine your Korea...

Offline Arabin

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Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #288 on: September 13, 2017, 07:40:39 AM »
Poor Aurata. Now he is reduced to necroing old fighting threads just to get his fix of attention. You can feel the panic about having his favourite conspiracy theory dumping ground die out. He had found a niche of people in the corner of the internet and could annoy them all day with his odd Putin love fantasies.

But now Aurata is facing the prospect of putting his brand of nutbaggery on the open market. And there he's just one of many, many cranks. All overshadowed by seasoned pros like Alex Jones.

Try harder.

You'll have to, kid. You'll have to.

Offline kyndo

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Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #289 on: September 13, 2017, 08:28:09 AM »
Eh, still beats trying to destroy America by starting a massive civil war to defend slavery.

You don't even know the history of your own country.

Hate to break it to you ..but the civil war was not to defend slavery.

That is an artistic moralistic reconstruction. Another piece of propaganda you swallowed without question.

You think the northern states were against slavery?

Then why did congress, consisting only of the Northern states, pass overwhelmingly on March 2, 1861, on the eve of the war itself, the Corwin Amendment that gave constitutional protection to slavery.

Lincoln endorsed the amendment in his inaugural address, saying “I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable.”

Try harder.
     Given the timing and circumstances, I assume it was a last ditch effort to entice the slave states that bordered the Union from seceding. Obviously it didn't work.

      You'll note that when the Civil War actually happened, the Corwin Amendment was torpedoed. No need for it, as there was no longer any possibility for appeasement.

    That the American Civil War was started to defend the institution of slavery might be a gross oversimplification... but that issue (and the issue of increasingly centralised power) was at the heart of it.

     From casual discussion and random readings (I'm not American), I've been led to believe that keeping economic and independent political power was why the southernmost states seceded, formed the Confederacy, and got their miserable slaving arses kicked. Would you agree with that slightly broader explanation?
  :smiley:
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 08:33:14 AM by kyndo »

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #290 on: September 13, 2017, 09:20:09 AM »
Eh, still beats trying to destroy America by starting a massive civil war to defend slavery.

You don't even know the history of your own country.

Hate to break it to you ..but the civil war was not to defend slavery.

That is an artistic moralistic reconstruction. Another piece of propaganda you swallowed without question.

You think the northern states were against slavery?

Then why did congress, consisting only of the Northern states, pass overwhelmingly on March 2, 1861, on the eve of the war itself, the Corwin Amendment that gave constitutional protection to slavery.

Lincoln endorsed the amendment in his inaugural address, saying “I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable.”

Try harder.

This is just flat out wrong. That the war happened because of slavery is without question. Without slavery, that war does not happen. You might have a different civil war- one that would likely be fought between the traditional "Eastern" states (which would likely include Virginia, North Carolina, and Georgia) joining New England and the Atlantic states) against the emerging "Western" states like Ohio, Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, Texas, Arkansas, possibly Louisiana over the Mississippi river and agriculture vs. the industrial-exporting areas of the East.

Slavery was the cause of the American Civil War. It had been brewing since the founding of the country and was further exacerbated by various European powers abolishing slavery, moral developments, westward expansion, and the Mexican-American War. Holding an entire race of people in permanent bondage made war inevitable in a country whose founding principle was "All men are created equal". Anyone who denies this is discounting history and the wealth of evidence that slavery was why the war happened.

This doesn't mean that individual soldiers didn't fight for other reasons, but the war was about slavery.

Offline Arabin

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Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #291 on: September 13, 2017, 10:12:55 AM »
Eh, still beats trying to destroy America by starting a massive civil war to defend slavery.

You don't even know the history of your own country.

Hate to break it to you ..but the civil war was not to defend slavery.

That is an artistic moralistic reconstruction. Another piece of propaganda you swallowed without question.

You think the northern states were against slavery?

Then why did congress, consisting only of the Northern states, pass overwhelmingly on March 2, 1861, on the eve of the war itself, the Corwin Amendment that gave constitutional protection to slavery.

Lincoln endorsed the amendment in his inaugural address, saying “I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable.”

Try harder.

This is just flat out wrong. That the war happened because of slavery is without question. Without slavery, that war does not happen. You might have a different civil war- one that would likely be fought between the traditional "Eastern" states (which would likely include Virginia, North Carolina, and Georgia) joining New England and the Atlantic states) against the emerging "Western" states like Ohio, Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, Texas, Arkansas, possibly Louisiana over the Mississippi river and agriculture vs. the industrial-exporting areas of the East.

Slavery was the cause of the American Civil War. It had been brewing since the founding of the country and was further exacerbated by various European powers abolishing slavery, moral developments, westward expansion, and the Mexican-American War. Holding an entire race of people in permanent bondage made war inevitable in a country whose founding principle was "All men are created equal". Anyone who denies this is discounting history and the wealth of evidence that slavery was why the war happened.

This doesn't mean that individual soldiers didn't fight for other reasons, but the war was about slavery.

Wow! So you admit the South fought for slavery. It's just that you see nothing wrong with that.

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #292 on: September 13, 2017, 11:09:41 AM »
Wow! So you admit the South fought for slavery. It's just that you see nothing wrong with that.

I never made a value judgment on their cause. I simply stated why they fought and that certain soldiers fought for certain reasons and had a wide range of views. I stated that some of them were very able generals and that some by the standards of the time, treated their slaves comparatively well.

The problem is that you lack the ability to read and comprehend at a collegiate level and to engage in nuanced academic discourse, thus you misinterpret what people say and turn it into a simplistic caricature, possibly because you lack the intellectual capacity to process complex concepts- which has become painfully clear to many people on this board, even those that disagree with me and side with you.

Offline Aurata

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Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #293 on: September 13, 2017, 11:15:59 AM »
Eh, still beats trying to destroy America by starting a massive civil war to defend slavery.

You don't even know the history of your own country.

Hate to break it to you ..but the civil war was not to defend slavery.

That is an artistic moralistic reconstruction. Another piece of propaganda you swallowed without question.

You think the northern states were against slavery?

Then why did congress, consisting only of the Northern states, pass overwhelmingly on March 2, 1861, on the eve of the war itself, the Corwin Amendment that gave constitutional protection to slavery.

Lincoln endorsed the amendment in his inaugural address, saying “I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable.”

Try harder.

This is just flat out wrong. That the war happened because of slavery is without question.

The north wasn't fighting against slavery. How could they be when on the very eve of the war the congress and incoming president were making it unconstitutional to abolish slavery?

How could the south be fighting for slavery, when the north wasn't fighting against it?

The real reason was economic. The north did not want to give up the high tarrifs and economic policies that the south objected to.

Blaming the war on slavery was the way the court historians used morality to cover up Lincolns naked aggression. Demonizing the enemy with moral language works for the victor.

And this is still a strong feature of politics.
Imagine your Korea...

Offline Arabin

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Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #294 on: September 13, 2017, 11:46:45 AM »
Wow! So you admit the South fought for slavery. It's just that you see nothing wrong with that.



The problem is that you lack the ability to read and comprehend at a collegiate level and to engage in nuanced academic discourse, thus you misinterpret what people say and turn it into a simplistic caricature, possibly because you lack the intellectual capacity to process complex concepts- which has become painfully clear to many people on this board, even those that disagree with me and side with you.

Struth I never did learn me letters, guv. It ain't my fault. I'm a simple  flower seller from the East End, I am.

I dream to reach such heights of intellectual probity and panache. I can only aspire to emulate the faintest wisps of your rhetorical mastery.

In face of such humble genius, I can but bow.

Nay, I can but weep.

Offline jddavis7

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Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #295 on: September 13, 2017, 12:04:55 PM »
Imagine reviving a two week old thread because you thought of some more lies to shout and want people to listen to you. People who have never agreed with you and never will.

Offline Arabin

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Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #296 on: September 13, 2017, 12:12:46 PM »
Imagine reviving a two week old thread because you thought of some more lies to shout and want people to listen to you. People who have never agreed with you and never will.

Don't be harsh. They've lost the Daily Stormer to the dark web and now the paywall crisis. I think they want to get all the trolling they can get done while people still use this site.

This time next week, it's back to redpill subreddits and rubbing their crotch while browsing mangapanda.com

Offline kyndo

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Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #297 on: September 13, 2017, 12:58:51 PM »
The north wasn't fighting against slavery. How could they be when on the very eve of the war the congress and incoming president were making it unconstitutional to abolish slavery?
   The Corwin Compromise would make it unconstitutional for federal interference in State rights (including the permissibility of slavery), but what it didn't affect was the prohibition on spreading slavery to new territories. The southern states were pushing west just as the northern ones were, and were hell-bent on propagating their slave-based society. This is why the South rejected the Corwin amendment and went on to disunion. When this happened, the Corwin amendment was immediately pushed onto the rubbish heap. It was a half-measure (at best) meant to keep pro-slavery border states from leaving. Considering that Lincoln's entire platform was based on emancipation, I doubt that that amendment would have lasted very long even if it had succeeded in preventing disunion.

How could the south be fighting for slavery, when the north wasn't fighting against it?
     Even if your supposition were true, which it obviously isn't, the South was fighting for the right to propagate slavery in new territories, something that the Corwin amendment deliberately did not address.

The real reason was economic. The north did not want to give up the high tarrifs and economic policies that the south objected to.

      "The tariff issue was and is sometimes cited–long after the war–by Lost Cause historians and neo-Confederate apologists. In 1860–61 none of the groups that proposed compromises to head off secession raised the tariff issue. Pamphleteers (North and South) rarely mentioned the tariff,and when some did, they were generally writing for a foreign audience."

    I looked up some info on how the tariff issue affected secession, and the sites that tended to play it up were generally far-right (such as this one). This seems like pretty good corroboration of the above quote.
     Economics was definitely important, but tariffs were a very minor part of it. The proposed tariffs were only a symptom of the intense competition between the conflicting systems of industry: mechanisation in the north versus slavery in the south. In addition, the new tariffs only restored the economic balance between north and south that the previous democratic administrations (all pro-slave southern based) had skewed in favour of the South, which isn't something rational people secede over.

    Blaming the war on slavery was the way the court historians used morality to cover up Lincolns naked aggression. Demonizing the enemy with moral language works for the victor. And this is still a strong feature of politics.
  Yes. That's how we all picture ol' Abe: naked and frothing at the mouth.  :smiley:
    But seriously, it was pretty clear that the first military actions were the seizure of federal forts and forces in the pro-slave states. Demonizing works equally well for lost cause revisionists, apparently. Bullshit media isn't exactly a new thing.


Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #298 on: September 13, 2017, 02:47:11 PM »
The north wasn't fighting against slavery. How could they be when on the very eve of the war the congress and incoming president were making it unconstitutional to abolish slavery?

How could the south be fighting for slavery, when the north wasn't fighting against it?

The real reason was economic. The north did not want to give up the high tarrifs and economic policies that the south objected to.

Blaming the war on slavery was the way the court historians used morality to cover up Lincolns naked aggression. Demonizing the enemy with moral language works for the victor.

And this is still a strong feature of politics.

This ignores every single event in the run up to the war- from the events I previously discussed to more immediate ones like Bleeding Kansas and John Brown's raid on Harper's Ferry. It ignores the fact that the single most popular book in the world, besides the Bible, was Uncle Tom's Cabin which had a profound effect on its readers.

The reason the North and the South fought over Union and States' Rights was the States' Right to have slavery.

But the primary flaw in the "Not because of slavery" argument is this- It ignores the fact that millions of people could look out at race-based chattel slavery, in a country that was a democracy founded on the principle of "All Men are Created Equal", combined with the traditions of Christianity, and global opinion against slavery, and NOT believe that it was a vile institution that they were morally opposed to at a most basic level.

People, even back then, were appalled at the institution.

Now, as I said, not everyone fought for or against slavery. You get 100 people, you'll get 100 different reasons for fighting. But the cause of the war was slavery.

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #299 on: September 13, 2017, 02:52:30 PM »

Struth I never did learn me letters, guv. It ain't my fault. I'm a simple  flower seller from the East End, I am.

I dream to reach such heights of intellectual probity and panache. I can only aspire to emulate the faintest wisps of your rhetorical mastery.

In face of such humble genius, I can but bow.

Nay, I can but weep.

For effs sake dude, no one is asking you to be Cicero, I'm simply asking you to try and read things with a little nuance, not go with the first thought that jumps in your head and sticking with it, and actually reading thoroughly.

You've mentioned before how my posts are "too long". This suggests that you lack patience and attention span, which strongly correlates with poor reading comprehension and poor critical thinking. In those "too long" posts are sentences and concepts that provide important background, nuance, and qualification to what I'm writing.

Also, you're juvenile replies are really getting tiresome. Either come with facts and some halfway-decent debate/discussion or stop bothering.

Aurata may be wrong on this issue, but at least he's engaging in a half-way mature, educated discussion. I'd rather debate him being wrong in that manner than deal with the absolute nothing you are bringing.