March 25, 2019, 08:52:03 PM


Author Topic: Google’s Firing of Anti-Diversity Memo Writer  (Read 12597 times)

Offline gogators!

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Re: Google’s Firing of Anti-Diversity Memo Writer
« Reply #120 on: January 18, 2018, 12:13:53 AM »
@Andyman. Your article's title is a bit perplexing "Science doesn't explain tech's diversity problem".  My immediate question is: why is it a problem? Why is the lack of females in tech a problem? Who is it a problem for? I don't see articles about the lack of female bricklayers or sewage workers. There's a lack of diversity in those fields doesn't seem to be a problem.  I don't see the lack of male childcare workers or nurses a problem, either.

The article then states "women earn the majority of bachelor’s degrees in biology, half the bachelor’s degrees in chemistry, and a little under half the bachelor’s degrees in math. " Why does this mean that women instantly want a career in tech? There are dozens of careers that require the hard sciences as a basis for employment. Women in science gravitate to their interests which are in the medical and health fields. That's a poorly laid out argument by the writer that, just because a large amount of women like science, that means a large proportion want to be a tech geek and code all day.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/16/16153740/tech-diversity-problem-science-history-explainer-inequality

The fact is, women in the West have a 100% ability to make their own decisions in their lives. There's no patriarchy, there is absolutely ZERO barrier to stop women getting into tech if they want to.

If you take a look at the figures below, you'll see women dominate education, speech pathology, nursing, childcare, nutrition, social work, vet science and a host of other occupations. Is this all a social construct? Or are women doing what I hope they can do; making their own life choices?

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/03/06/chart-the-percentage-women-and-men-each-profession/GBX22YsWl0XaeHghwXfE4H/story.html


 



Stereotype much?

I hope you're not one of those dudes who complain when jobs posted in Korea call for females.

That's your argument? Attack the person rather than what he/she has to say?

What stereotype? I give evidence that women dominate certain fields and men others. I made no mention that women have to do certain jobs. I made sure I said women should be given the opportunity to follow whatever careers interest them and that seems to be the case.
You gave no such evidence. Unless you believe that working as a hotel maid, cook, daycare employee, checkout cashier, laundress and the like is what women truly aspire to.

What people do in life is not necessarily linked to what "interests them." It's often what's available to them.

Unless you truly believe women are just naturally interested in low-paying high-stress, bad hours occupations.

We've come a long ways since the days of the cavemen. Why don't you join us?

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Google’s Firing of Anti-Diversity Memo Writer
« Reply #121 on: January 18, 2018, 09:02:06 AM »
Anyone who thinks that the picture of women modern men in 21st century capitalist countries dream about is one where she is barefoot and pregnant with her hair in curlers and standing over a stove, is an idiot.

If that's what men wanted, that's what would be shown as a model. It isn't. In fact such a picture would probably drive men away in droves.

If someone ever says "You just want women barefoot and pregnant", it's almost guaranteed that the person does not accurately perceive reality.

Offline gogators!

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Re: Google’s Firing of Anti-Diversity Memo Writer
« Reply #122 on: January 18, 2018, 11:21:30 AM »
Anyone who thinks that the picture of women modern men in 21st century capitalist countries dream about is one where she is barefoot and pregnant with her hair in curlers and standing over a stove, is an idiot.

If that's what men wanted, that's what would be shown as a model. It isn't. In fact such a picture would probably drive men away in droves.

If someone ever says "You just want women barefoot and pregnant", it's almost guaranteed that the person does not accurately perceive reality.
Your ability to perceive what is obviously not to be taken literally seems to be out to lunch.

As for driving "men away in droves," when the president has a thing for porn queens, not so accurate. For what could be more an object to be controlled and dominated than such a woman?

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Re: Google’s Firing of Anti-Diversity Memo Writer
« Reply #123 on: January 20, 2018, 10:32:59 AM »
Interesting interview with Jordan Peterson on the topic.



Peterson is very assured, Cathy Newman's arguments are dreadfully poor. 'What gives you the right to say that?', 'loads of 'so you're saying .such and such...' when he clearly isn't. E.g 'So you're saying women aren't intelligent enough...?' , a few pointless 'not alls', plenty of 'it's not fair' whines and a bit about lobsters at the end to try and make him look like a crank. 

« Last Edit: January 20, 2018, 02:05:33 PM by eggieguffer »

Offline gogators!

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Re: Google’s Firing of Anti-Diversity Memo Writer
« Reply #124 on: January 20, 2018, 10:16:32 PM »
Interesting interview with Jordan Peterson on the topic.



Peterson is very assured, Cathy Newman's arguments are dreadfully poor. 'What gives you the right to say that?', 'loads of 'so you're saying .such and such...' when he clearly isn't. E.g 'So you're saying women aren't intelligent enough...?' , a few pointless 'not alls', plenty of 'it's not fair' whines and a bit about lobsters at the end to try and make him look like a crank.
A Jordan Peterson fanboy? Do you send him money? Have you cleaned your room?

It's sad that people can get so bent out of shape over the use of pronouns and that one can be seen as striking a blow for freedom by using he instead of she. Is peterson an example that the rebellion will be televised--on youtube--or that rebellion is just another commercial activity? Is he promoting ideas or his brand?

Offline donuts81

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Re: Google’s Firing of Anti-Diversity Memo Writer
« Reply #125 on: January 22, 2018, 09:48:34 AM »
Quote
It's sad that people can get so bent out of shape over the use of pronouns and that one can be seen as striking a blow for freedom by using he instead of she. Is peterson an example that the rebellion will be televised--on youtube--or that rebellion is just another commercial activity? Is he promoting ideas or his brand?

Yeah, except he never said anything like that. You're as bad as the interviewer in the video.

He was against being compelled by the govt to use govt mandated pronouns and having it be a punishable offense. He never called a she, he.
"You can't hurt me now, Mr Lee. I've lost all feeling"

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Google’s Firing of Anti-Diversity Memo Writer
« Reply #126 on: January 22, 2018, 10:24:58 AM »
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It's sad that people can get so bent out of shape over the use of pronouns and that one can be seen as striking a blow for freedom by using he instead of she. Is peterson an example that the rebellion will be televised--on youtube--or that rebellion is just another commercial activity? Is he promoting ideas or his brand?

Yeah, except he never said anything like that. You're as bad as the interviewer in the video.

He was against being compelled by the govt to use govt mandated pronouns and having it be a punishable offense. He never called a she, he.

I thought Newman did better than people are giving her credit for and it wasn't the car crash people are saying (she did have to challenge him and she stuck to pretty routine talking points), but it was clear that at some points all she could do was try and put words in his mouth and mischaracterize what he's saying.

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Re: Google’s Firing of Anti-Diversity Memo Writer
« Reply #127 on: January 22, 2018, 10:28:59 AM »
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It's sad that people can get so bent out of shape over the use of pronouns and that one can be seen as striking a blow for freedom by using he instead of she. Is peterson an example that the rebellion will be televised--on youtube--or that rebellion is just another commercial activity? Is he promoting ideas or his brand?

Yeah, except he never said anything like that. You're as bad as the interviewer in the video.

He was against being compelled by the govt to use govt mandated pronouns and having it be a punishable offense. He never called a she, he.

So you're saying, we should strike a blow for freedom by using he instead of she?

Online eggieguffer

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Re: Google’s Firing of Anti-Diversity Memo Writer
« Reply #128 on: January 22, 2018, 10:30:57 AM »
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I thought Newman did better than people are giving her credit for and it wasn't the car crash people are saying

Yeah, she really had him on the ropes with the lobster issue.

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Re: Google’s Firing of Anti-Diversity Memo Writer
« Reply #129 on: January 22, 2018, 11:11:08 AM »
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I thought Newman did better than people are giving her credit for and it wasn't the car crash people are saying

Yeah, she really had him on the ropes with the lobster issue.

The joys of fauxtherhood

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Google’s Firing of Anti-Diversity Memo Writer
« Reply #130 on: January 22, 2018, 12:13:07 PM »
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I thought Newman did better than people are giving her credit for and it wasn't the car crash people are saying

Yeah, she really had him on the ropes with the lobster issue.

I'm trying to be generous. I do remember during the first half, that I thought Peterson wasn't owning. I can't remember specifically, but I do remember when I listened the first time, I though it wasn't his best effort. Not compared to say, a Ben Shapiro who can be absolutely ruthless in debate.

The second half though was pretty bad for Newman, especially the free speech-transgender part and the lobster stuff.

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Re: Google’s Firing of Anti-Diversity Memo Writer
« Reply #131 on: January 22, 2018, 01:07:37 PM »
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I'm trying to be generous.

Why? Because she's a woman? (sexist) She's got a first class degree from Oxford and is paid more than Peterson gets as a professor, for interviewing people.

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Re: Google’s Firing of Anti-Diversity Memo Writer
« Reply #132 on: January 22, 2018, 01:13:17 PM »
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I'm trying to be generous.

Why? Because she's a woman? (sexist) She's got a first class degree from Oxford and is paid more than Peterson gets as a professor, for interviewing people.

As I said, I genuinely thought things were fairly even during the first half, at least not a runaway Peterson smashing. Despite him running riot in the 2nd half and her debacle there, no reason not to notice that the first half wasn't abysmal for her. I could focus just on the 2nd half and the overall outcome, but I think it's better to be generous and acknowledge the first half as well. 

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Re: Google’s Firing of Anti-Diversity Memo Writer
« Reply #133 on: January 22, 2018, 01:33:12 PM »
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I'm trying to be generous.

Why? Because she's a woman? (sexist) She's got a first class degree from Oxford and is paid more than Peterson gets as a professor, for interviewing people.

As I said, I genuinely thought things were fairly even during the first half, at least not a runaway Peterson smashing. Despite him running riot in the 2nd half and her debacle there, no reason not to notice that the first half wasn't abysmal for her. I could focus just on the 2nd half and the overall outcome, but I think it's better to be generous and acknowledge the first half as well.

In the first half she accused him of being divisive for having mostly male youtube followers, then asked 'what's in it for women?' when he talked about encouraging men to grow up. That last question was pretty indicative of her view of society being basically men against women, I thought.

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Re: Google’s Firing of Anti-Diversity Memo Writer
« Reply #134 on: January 22, 2018, 01:50:16 PM »
Interesting interview with Jordan Peterson on the topic.


Peterson is very assured, Cathy Newman's arguments are dreadfully poor. 'What gives you the right to say that?', 'loads of 'so you're saying .such and such...' when he clearly isn't. E.g 'So you're saying women aren't intelligent enough...?' , a few pointless 'not alls', plenty of 'it's not fair' whines and a bit about lobsters at the end to try and make him look like a crank.

I think Peterson is great, he's a breath of fresh air. And he makes his arguments so eloquently. I'm reading his book right now (12 rules for life), it's a great read for anyone interested in what he has to say

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Re: Google’s Firing of Anti-Diversity Memo Writer
« Reply #135 on: January 22, 2018, 02:16:56 PM »
In the first half she accused him of being divisive for having mostly male youtube followers, then asked 'what's in it for women?' when he talked about encouraging men to grow up. That last question was pretty indicative of her view of society being basically men against women, I thought.

I think that's reading too much into a ratings driven TV presenter's questioning, at least at the beginning. I thought Newman was more just probing and pushing than "unhinged" or anything like that.

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Re: Google’s Firing of Anti-Diversity Memo Writer
« Reply #136 on: January 22, 2018, 02:47:04 PM »
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I'm trying to be generous.

Why? Because she's a woman? (sexist) She's got a first class degree from Oxford and is paid more than Peterson gets as a professor, for interviewing people.

She was trying to upset him, I think. She was trying to evoke an emotional response from him and to get his ire up because it was a hot button topic and emotional responses gets views.

I don't know, while it kind of turned into a circus of sorts and backfired a bit, I felt like it was planned.

Interviewers are just kind of like that. Some are just more skilled at controlling the interview, especially when there's some kind of agenda behind it. But, regardless, underhanded tactics aside, it doesn't completely invalidate good points made on either side.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 03:10:02 PM by Chinguetti »

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Re: Google’s Firing of Anti-Diversity Memo Writer
« Reply #137 on: January 22, 2018, 03:10:04 PM »
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it doesn't completely invalidate good points made on either side.

Well so far, neither you nor DeMartino have actually mentioned any good points made by Cathy Newman.

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Re: Google’s Firing of Anti-Diversity Memo Writer
« Reply #138 on: January 22, 2018, 03:37:51 PM »
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it doesn't completely invalidate good points made on either side.

Well so far, neither you nor DeMartino have actually mentioned any good points made by Cathy Newman.

Honestly, I'm not interested in discussing them or else I would have addressed those points in my first post. Whether or not I agree with certain points, I know how to play devil's advocate. But people often bring this stuff up just to argue for argument's sake or to peddle their own personal agendas, and I can't be bothered. While a lot of people are still up for the challenge and find that sort of thing fun and entertaining, I don't, at least not in subjects like this one.

I'd much rather just read what everyone is saying about it, and was more interested in pointing out the behind-the-scenes motivations in this instance because I've been involved with people in this sort of thing and I know that an (apparently) failed attempt at doing something doesn't suddenly discredit a person or their points. A lot of the times, it's done on purpose. Trying to write them off based on what you view as a bad interview, especially when you don't personally like the interviewer and his/her views, without fully understanding what was going on in the interview itself and what was being said here and there is a mistake that might blindside some folks later. We can discuss participants' behaviors and tactics, sure, as long as it's understood that what a participant does/doesn't do or say doesn't suddenly invalidate their side of the argument as well. Just depends on why they're doing it.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm more concerned about the manipulation side of it. I find THAT interesting. And also because people are easily distracted by it.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 03:59:38 PM by Chinguetti »

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Re: Google’s Firing of Anti-Diversity Memo Writer
« Reply #139 on: January 22, 2018, 04:39:20 PM »
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Honestly, I'm not interested in discussing them or else I would have written out my first post here with those points in mind

So don't say there were valid points made on both sides if you're not going to say what they were. Otherwise people will probably think it's just a platitude. Afterall, no one can force you to discuss those points once you've mentioned them.