February 17, 2019, 03:56:55 PM


Author Topic: Female only teaching positions  (Read 16909 times)

Offline AKorea

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Re: Female only teaching positions
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2017, 02:01:02 PM »
The funny thing . . . , I've always noticed "female preferred" positions are 'usually' the lowest salaries.  I've often thought woman who take those positions are suckers.  If a position is going to be exclusionary to your gender - you should at least make more money for the bias to the applicant.

Online Life Improvement

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Re: Female only teaching positions
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2017, 02:10:55 PM »
I've always noticed "female preferred" positions are 'usually' the lowest salaries.  I've often thought woman who take those positions are suckers.

Being female is leverage and power. Of course they don't get paid less.

[Public School Position]

# 1
Starting Date : March 2nd, 2017
Student type: Elementary
Location : Yongsan
Salary : 2.8~million won
Working Hours : 8:30AM to 4:30PM
Work Days : Mon-Fri
No housing
E-2 Visa Holder Preferred. / Female Teacher Preferred


Loads of people would love to get a public school job in the center of Seoul.

Offline AKorea

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Re: Female only teaching positions
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2017, 02:31:29 PM »
I'll admit that position isn't that bad, approximately 2.3 (considering housing).  Not a great salary, but higher than average, and a good location. But the vast amount of "female only" positions I see posted are 2.1, 9 hour days kindy positions.

I've always noticed "female preferred" positions are 'usually' the lowest salaries.  I've often thought woman who take those positions are suckers.

Being female is leverage and power. Of course they don't get paid less.

[Public School Position]

# 1
Starting Date : March 2nd, 2017
Student type: Elementary
Location : Yongsan
Salary : 2.8~million won
Working Hours : 8:30AM to 4:30PM
Work Days : Mon-Fri
No housing
E-2 Visa Holder Preferred. / Female Teacher Preferred


Loads of people would love to get a public school job in the center of Seoul.

Offline Samiam77

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Re: Female only teaching positions
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2017, 02:59:29 PM »
I've always noticed "female preferred" positions are 'usually' the lowest salaries.  I've often thought woman who take those positions are suckers.

Being female is leverage and power. Of course they don't get paid less.

[Public School Position]

# 1
Starting Date : March 2nd, 2017
Student type: Elementary
Location : Yongsan
Salary : 2.8~million won
Working Hours : 8:30AM to 4:30PM
Work Days : Mon-Fri
No housing
E-2 Visa Holder Preferred. / Female Teacher Preferred


Loads of people would love to get a public school job in the center of Seoul.

May I interject a female perspective??? .... I'm going to anyways.
I have never liked when they say female preferred or Female only on any applications.

Dispite that let's play with some theories:
*  I wonder if they had a poor past experience with male teachers or,
* if they simply have some odd bias towards female.
* Maybe they are following a trend that as foreigners we don't understand. Like they see other schools posting ads for female teachers and think that their school should do the same.
* Maybe there are external pressures from teachers or school boards which happen to be super sexist in this regard.
* Maybe these are all girl universities and schools. I could see hiring a female as a benefit

Being someone who is neither a Korean teacher posting these ads nor a male teacher looking for a job among these ads I can't say what is true and what is horribly prejudice against a group of people, in this case foreign male teachers.
I do wonder if they might still accept men for these positions. IT does say preferred, not only.
There might still be a chance that a male applicant with good specks could land a position there.

IF the ads says female only... then I would say females should proceed with serious caution. Without proof of any of the above theories, other posters may have hit the nail on the head. Those ads are for positions you wouldn't want anyways.

Lastly although the ad you posted Life Improvement looks good. If you factor in housing that number changes quite a bit. There is no housing, which means no housing allowance or anything. You are on your own to not only pay rent but also come up with the key money for a deposit. And I don't know when the last time was that you tried to find a decent apartment in Seoul near Yongsan was, but I have a feeling it's not easy or cheap. Which means that 2.8 million won will start to look a lot more relatable to other job offers.

If you are too lazy to read all that, know that I understand your frustration. I've had my fair share of biases when looking for jobs in my home country. It is never fun to have extra odds against you and people whining while they are in the lucky category.
I also understand that every school has their reason, some valid, some ridiculous.
Welcome to Korea boys!

Offline grey

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Re: Female only teaching positions
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2017, 03:02:10 PM »
Tangentially related, but looking for a room when I move back and I'm seeing a lot of female only/preferred.

The rent is too darn high.
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Offline KimDuHan

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Re: Female only teaching positions
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2017, 04:12:24 PM »
I've always noticed "female preferred" positions are 'usually' the lowest salaries.  I've often thought woman who take those positions are suckers.

Being female is leverage and power. Of course they don't get paid less.

[Public School Position]

# 1
Starting Date : March 2nd, 2017
Student type: Elementary
Location : Yongsan
Salary : 2.8~million won
Working Hours : 8:30AM to 4:30PM
Work Days : Mon-Fri
No housing
E-2 Visa Holder Preferred. / Female Teacher Preferred


Loads of people would love to get a public school job in the center of Seoul.

May I interject a female perspective??? .... I'm going to anyways.
I have never liked when they say female preferred or Female only on any applications.

Dispite that let's play with some theories:
*  I wonder if they had a poor past experience with male teachers or,
* if they simply have some odd bias towards female.
* Maybe they are following a trend that as foreigners we don't understand. Like they see other schools posting ads for female teachers and think that their school should do the same.
* Maybe there are external pressures from teachers or school boards which happen to be super sexist in this regard.
* Maybe these are all girl universities and schools. I could see hiring a female as a benefit

Being someone who is neither a Korean teacher posting these ads nor a male teacher looking for a job among these ads I can't say what is true and what is horribly prejudice against a group of people, in this case foreign male teachers.
I do wonder if they might still accept men for these positions. IT does say preferred, not only.
There might still be a chance that a male applicant with good specks could land a position there.

IF the ads says female only... then I would say females should proceed with serious caution. Without proof of any of the above theories, other posters may have hit the nail on the head. Those ads are for positions you wouldn't want anyways.

Lastly although the ad you posted Life Improvement looks good. If you factor in housing that number changes quite a bit. There is no housing, which means no housing allowance or anything. You are on your own to not only pay rent but also come up with the key money for a deposit. And I don't know when the last time was that you tried to find a decent apartment in Seoul near Yongsan was, but I have a feeling it's not easy or cheap. Which means that 2.8 million won will start to look a lot more relatable to other job offers.

If you are too lazy to read all that, know that I understand your frustration. I've had my fair share of biases when looking for jobs in my home country. It is never fun to have extra odds against you and people whining while they are in the lucky category.
I also understand that every school has their reason, some valid, some ridiculous.
Welcome to Korea boys!

Interesting perspective but if the roles were reversed and a majority of jobs preferred males I'm sure a feminist would have a heyday here saying Korean culture is discriminatory and sexist.

It seems like a double standard is at play.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2017, 04:17:00 PM by KimDuHan »

Offline EditHero

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Re: Female only teaching positions
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2017, 09:18:17 PM »
I agree with the general consensus of being wary of those postings. But at least in my after school positions I've taken some female only schools or American/Canadian only schools. And both times I was told, the last teacher was male, or the last teacher with Irish (the last teacher at my school was Irish) and the parents and the admin wanted to switch it up cuz they'd had him for three years. And not in a bad way, he married his co-teacher and was moving on to greener pastures (Ireland, they moved back to Ireland cuz babies). He was actually really hard shoes to fill (insert bitterness).

So while yeah most of the postings I'd raise my eyebrows at. There can on occasion be a legitimate reason. That's why I always say apply first, ask questions at the interview. Or better yet ask questions on a preliminary phone interview and choose to either interview or not waste your time.

Also also, I just applied for an after school job where the owner flat out said she only wanted male teachers cuz putting two females working together was causing her too much BS stress. So didn't get that one.

Online eggieguffer

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Re: Female only teaching positions
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2017, 09:42:12 PM »
I agree with the general consensus of being wary of those postings. But at least in my after school positions I've taken some female only schools or American/Canadian only schools. And both times I was told, the last teacher was male, or the last teacher with Irish (the last teacher at my school was Irish) and the parents and the admin wanted to switch it up cuz they'd had him for three years. And not in a bad way, he married his co-teacher and was moving on to greener pastures (Ireland, they moved back to Ireland cuz babies). He was actually really hard shoes to fill (insert bitterness).

So while yeah most of the postings I'd raise my eyebrows at. There can on occasion be a legitimate reason. That's why I always say apply first, ask questions at the interview. Or better yet ask questions on a preliminary phone interview and choose to either interview or not waste your time.

Also also, I just applied for an after school job where the owner flat out said she only wanted male teachers cuz putting two females working together was causing her too much BS stress. So didn't get that one.

So, do you think companies in Western countries should be able to specify which gender they want in their job adverts?

Offline EditHero

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Re: Female only teaching positions
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2017, 10:07:24 PM »
I agree with the general consensus of being wary of those postings. But at least in my after school positions I've taken some female only schools or American/Canadian only schools. And both times I was told, the last teacher was male, or the last teacher with Irish (the last teacher at my school was Irish) and the parents and the admin wanted to switch it up cuz they'd had him for three years. And not in a bad way, he married his co-teacher and was moving on to greener pastures (Ireland, they moved back to Ireland cuz babies). He was actually really hard shoes to fill (insert bitterness).

So while yeah most of the postings I'd raise my eyebrows at. There can on occasion be a legitimate reason. That's why I always say apply first, ask questions at the interview. Or better yet ask questions on a preliminary phone interview and choose to either interview or not waste your time.

Also also, I just applied for an after school job where the owner flat out said she only wanted male teachers cuz putting two females working together was causing her too much BS stress. So didn't get that one.

So, do you think companies in Western countries should be able to specify which gender they want in their job adverts?

Not in general. But there's a time and place where I wouldn't see a problem. But in the west... if a school wanted to hire a french teacher... would we be freaking out about them wanting a native french speaker? All my french teachers spoke natively. Didn't mean they were all French citizens, I don't know. But there's a time and place where I wouldnt be offended... and where I would.

Online slycordinator

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Re: Female only teaching positions
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2017, 10:28:11 PM »
I agree with the general consensus of being wary of those postings. But at least in my after school positions I've taken some female only schools or American/Canadian only schools. And both times I was told, the last teacher was male, or the last teacher with Irish (the last teacher at my school was Irish) and the parents and the admin wanted to switch it up cuz they'd had him for three years. And not in a bad way, he married his co-teacher and was moving on to greener pastures (Ireland, they moved back to Ireland cuz babies). He was actually really hard shoes to fill (insert bitterness).

So while yeah most of the postings I'd raise my eyebrows at. There can on occasion be a legitimate reason. That's why I always say apply first, ask questions at the interview. Or better yet ask questions on a preliminary phone interview and choose to either interview or not waste your time.

Also also, I just applied for an after school job where the owner flat out said she only wanted male teachers cuz putting two females working together was causing her too much BS stress. So didn't get that one.

So, do you think companies in Western countries should be able to specify which gender they want in their job adverts?

Not in general. But there's a time and place where I wouldn't see a problem. But in the west... if a school wanted to hire a french teacher... would we be freaking out about them wanting a native french speaker? All my french teachers spoke natively. Didn't mean they were all French citizens, I don't know. But there's a time and place where I wouldnt be offended... and where I would.
Devil's Advocate: My French teacher in Junior High (well, 9th grade) was an American who became fluent in French studying it and she was a far better teacher than the native speaker I had at the High School. Hehe.

And really, the analogy fails here because the situation isn't quite as described. The jobs in question already are for a foreign language speaker. This situation is where they want the native speaker *and* have that native be whichever color/gender they prefer dealing with.

Offline z80

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Re: Female only teaching positions
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2017, 11:17:52 PM »
The other issue with "female only/preferred" is that particularly in hagwons, you know that 45 year old man doing the hiring is going to have wondering hands.... and then we all know how Korea treats sexual offences...

Offline EditHero

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Re: Female only teaching positions
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2017, 11:50:57 PM »
I completely agree with where people are coming from. All I was saying in my post was that at least in my experience working in after school jobs I've seen justifiable reasons for the request.

Especially because in after school each year during the bidding process, if the school and parents haven't decided to go with keeping what they exactly have for another year, they usually try hard to change it up hard. (Yet they complain so hard when things aren't exactly how they used to be (insert more bitterness)).

When we're talking hagwon postings I would become a lot more suspicious and I would personally question the reasonings and judge their answer pretty harshly.

What about those postings that will pop up that are like "powerful business man seeking English teacher to spend time with him practicing English by accompanying to places and eating meals together." Might as well be advertising for "old man looking for long-term English speaking prostitute".

Offline Pecan

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Re: Female only teaching positions
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2017, 06:59:49 AM »
Not sure if some are being deliberately disingenuous or simply naive.

Employers discriminate everywhere (what do you think the application and interview process are for?).

Korea simply hasn't had to master the art of subtlety necessary in the west due to the lack of litigation concerns.

I have said it before, but private employers should be allowed to hire exactly who they want and being able to be honest about it from the start can help others from unnecessarily wasting their time.

Why on earth should a private employer be "forced" into hiring someone who will be less beneficial to their bottom line?

We discriminate with every choice we make.

Move along.

Online eggieguffer

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Re: Female only teaching positions
« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2017, 07:12:55 AM »
Not sure if some are being deliberately disingenuous or simply naive.

Employers discriminate everywhere (what do you think the application and interview process are for?).

Korea simply hasn't had to master the art of subtlety necessary in the west due to the lack of litigation concerns.

I have said it before, but private employers should be allowed to hire exactly who they want and being able to be honest about it from the start can help others from unnecessarily wasting their time.

Why on earth should a private employer be "forced" into hiring someone who will be less beneficial to their bottom line?

We discriminate with every choice we make.

Move along.

Some people need to learn the definition of 'discriminate.'

'make an unjust or prejudicial distinction in the treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, sex, or age.'

I've been at a lot of job interviews and never seen this happen.

If you wanted to hire an attractive bar maid to get the punters in, or a female kindy teacher  because it's what the parents expect, That might not necessarily be discrimination. Putting up a sign outside a bar saying 'no blacks' is. There's a strong argument for making the second example illegal, and a slightly weaker argument for the first IMO. 
« Last Edit: February 11, 2017, 07:16:10 AM by eggieguffer »

Offline Pecan

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Re: Female only teaching positions
« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2017, 07:39:49 AM »
Well, look at property values, what HOA's do, etc., you don't need to be overt to accomplish your goals.

Price keeps out less desirable folks most easily and effectively.

People either keep with their own kind in their own neighborhoods or they are "required" to assimilate.

Look at the lack of diversity across America and the concentration of certain groups in certain areas.

Do you think it is an accident how districts are gerrymandered and funded?

When you cross the tracks in Athens, Georgia, you might think you entered a different country.  It's that easy.

Online Thomas Mc

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Re: Female only teaching positions
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2017, 09:35:45 AM »
But isn't America the land of opportunity where anyone regardless of race or whatever can make it?

It is considered discrimination at least in the west. The restaurant chain "hooters" has successfully been sued because of sexual discrimination.

Online Life Improvement

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Re: Female only teaching positions
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2017, 12:52:38 PM »
I'd also imagine it's easier to get a job as a white male, compared to a non-white female. I could be wrong on that one.

Saw this on Facebook:

Quote
Many years ago I wasn't chosen (one spot, two candidates) at a university simply due to my sex. The university had too many male teachers and was desperate for females. The other candidate was a black female. She was hired.
Quote
I'd be scared shitless if I was jobless and trying to penetrate the Uni market for the first time now. I know for a fact my Uni could post my job for like 500k less than they pay me and get STACKS of qualified candidates. Scary market.

Online eggieguffer

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Re: Female only teaching positions
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2017, 02:10:01 PM »
Quote
Many years ago I wasn't chosen (one spot, two candidates) at a university simply due to my sex. The university had too many male teachers and was desperate for females. .

Never really understood why a school/college would care about how many teachers they have of each gender. What does it matter? I can kind of understand it more when you have a company that has teams and different gender perspectives can be useful but In Korean universities in particular, teachers go into the class and do their own thing as separate entities.

Offline tommyb.goode

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Re: Female only teaching positions
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2017, 08:11:47 AM »
I worked at a public school which would only hire men. The reason being, parents are less likely to complain about things, or just call in with their suggestions or things they wanted done differently.

Apparently, mums feel a lot more confident about phoning the school about every little thing when the teacher is a female. I thought this was ridiculous and asked a few other teachers at hagwons and they agreed this was the case here.

I'm not saying it is the case (that parents complain easier) and I also took the job without knowing they were only hiring men.

Online slycordinator

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Re: Female only teaching positions
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2017, 08:45:06 PM »
Some people need to learn the definition of 'discriminate.'

'make an unjust or prejudicial distinction in the treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, sex, or age.'
Btw, discriminate also means (and originally meant) note/observe a difference between things; to distinguish between them correctly.