September 24, 2018, 01:11:26 PM


Author Topic: When will Trump be impeached?  (Read 162840 times)

Offline dandred

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #380 on: March 26, 2017, 12:06:08 PM »
15 years teaching experience. CELTA, DELTA, MA TESOL, PhD slave. Thank you.

Offline eastreef

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #381 on: March 26, 2017, 01:16:08 PM »
Unfortunately, for the people of the Ukraine/Crimea and Georgia the US should yell and scream, possibly consider economic sanctions, but not really consider any type of military options.  This has always been a Russian/Soviet sphere of influence “area.”  And, like it or not in the “real” world some people’s freedom may get sacrificed for the interest of the “big” picture. 

Furthermore, anyone who has read even one book about the eastern front in WW II (I have read many) understands why Russia is so sensitive about this area, and why any country who decides to get involved in an “offensive” land war with Russia over what they consider to be their area is crazy….

Look what US did when the Soviet Union tried to militarize Cuba to their advantage.  The US was prepared to go to nuclear war to stop it.  Can you imagine what the US would have done if the former Soviet Union said it was willing to have Nicaragua and other Latin American countries as members of the Warsaw Pact?   We would have gone absolutely ballistic because we consider Latin America to be “our area.”

Now, I do start to feel a little different about Poland because Poland is not a traditional Russian/Soviet “area”.  Furthermore, what the Soviets did to Poland, first with their German-Soviet Non-Aggression pact of 1939,

http://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/german-soviet-nonaggression-pact

and then at the end of the war when Soviet troops stood by (I’m not too happy about FDR’s actions either) as Hitler unleashed some of the worst people under his control in Warsaw (Warsaw Uprising of 1944).

http://www.warsawuprising.com/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Uprising

I probably would not be positioning missiles in Poland, but would station NATO troops there as a trip wire.  Maybe the same approach for the Baltics….But, no NATO troops stationed in the Ukraine or Georgia….
“All of this has happened before, and will happen again.”

Offline eastreef

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #382 on: March 26, 2017, 01:41:06 PM »
Yes, I agree that Trump may have taken a misstep regarding the health care legislation (I’m not privy to his inner thinking or big picture plans), as follows:

1.  Part of Trump’s winning coalition came about because of his populist message.  IMHO, he should have cemented this populism by introducing his own health care legislation Yes, some of the things in his plan may have upset some conservative Republicans, but they just showed that they are not going to support him anyways…

2. Maybe Trump should have introduced his health care plan, immigration plan and tax reform plan together: offering Democrats and conservative Republicans something in each plan.  Maybe one group gets a little more in one plan and a little less in another plan…..But, give them something they can talk about back home…..If interested, continue reading below.

3.  Trump did not win the election because he was an establishment Republican.  Many Republicans opposed him before and they still oppose him.  They want him to fail.

4.  Many Republicans and Democrats do not want to solve problems; therefore, they do not want to have legislation pass that is the result of Rs and Ds compromising.   They want nothing to pass and only want money raising issues and campaign slogans - E.G. “Send me money and vote for me because if the Ds take control the country will become the Socialist States of America……  Or, send me money and vote for me because if the Rs are in control they will use DNA to resurrect Hitler….. These Ds and Rs are really saying that they either want it completely their way, or they will ensure that nothing gets done.  Another reason Trump got elected….

5.  The Rs had six years where they controlled the House under Obama, and with no filibuster in the House they could pass any legislation they wanted.  Maybe the legislation would stall in the Senate because of the filibuster, but it is the House’s job to legislate.  I believe they voted more than fifty times to repeal Obamacare, but they never included a replacement.  In addition, the House never passed a Republican immigration bill or a Republican tax reform bill……

6.  Congress needs to be led and that is what Trump was elected to do.  Many people supported Trump because of the failures of Congress and the President to get anything done.  He should introduce his own health care bill, his own immigration bill and his own tax reform bill.  He needs to show that he is leading or he will lose a lot of support, and he will not succeed.

7.  In all of these bills he should include some Democratic ideas to either force the Ds to compromise and vote for it, or to look completely political and vote against it.  And, of course include some Republican conservative ideas.  Any president, including Trump, can consider it a victory if the president gets around 60-70% of what he wants in a bill.  This is something that Obama never learned, or was unwilling to do.
 
8.  It’s easy to say that Obama could not get anything done because the Rs controlled the House and Senate, but the truth is that either Obama did not have the leadership skills, or just did not desire to compromise, to get anything done.  Reagan - who was a Republican had a House and Senate controlled by Ds -, and Clinton – who was Democrat  had a Republican House and Senate for most of his presidency - were both very skilled at keeping their overall agenda moving forward, while allowing for compromise.

9.  Heck!  The Republicans controlled the House while talking impeachment and eventually voted for it, and while doing this Clinton was cutting deals with the House…..  They balanced the budget.  See first quote below.  But, Clinton and Reagan actually enjoyed the political “game,” and by all accounts Obama did not enjoy it.  I can post link after link documenting this, but have just included one link - for now - , which shows Democrats in Congress complaining of Obama’s “aloofness.”  See second quote below.
 
Maybe if you don’t have the skills to be good at a game you don’t enjoy playing it as much…..Furthermore, both Reagan and Clinton had previously been governors where they learned about how to get legislation passed; they learned about compromise; and they basically learned how to play the game. Obama was a college lawyer and community organizer…  Trump has a good background in negotiating, and he needs to start using his skills at the beginning of the process by introducing his own legislation.

Maybe how things worked out regarding this health care legislation is part of a bigger plan that I do not know about…..  I do know that Trump needs to remember that he was not elected because of the support of the Republican establishment, but because of a coalition that he built.  Furthermore, if he lets Congress lead on legislation he will reaffirm the old saying:  “Garbage in, garbage out.”

Quote
First Quote:
The impeachment of Bill Clinton was initiated by the House of Representatives on December 19, 1998
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Bill_Clinton
Fact Check: Who was president the last time the budget was balanced?
- The U.S. government suffered budget deficits every year from 1970 through 1997.
- Democrat Bill Clinton was president in 1998, when the government finally recorded a surplus.
- There also were budget surpluses in 1999, 2000 and in 2001. 2001 was the last year the Clinton administration proposed the budget.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/02/03/cnn-fact-check-the-last-president-to-balance-the-budget/

Second Quote:
Some excerpts are below.

House Democrats can’t figure out why Obama won’t talk to them
By Mike Lillis - 08/14/14 06:00 AM EDT

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/215082-house-dems-cant-figure-out-why-obama-wont-talk-to-them

Some are scratching their heads why, after nearly six years in office and a reshuffling of his legislative affairs team, Obama's working relationship with Congress remains prickly.
“It's hard for us to fathom; I mean, is it just lack of full staffing and resources? [Is it] professional commitment? Is it a disdain for the legislative branch? I mean, what is it?” asked Rep. Gerry Connolly (D-VA) “People like me want to be allies — I mean, I am an ally. So work with us, reach out to us; you know, we're not the enemy.”

Connolly emphasized that he has "no complaints" with the administration's outreach when it comes to logistics and political operations. But as a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, he's long-been frustrated by the White House’s approach to "the bread-and-butter of congressional relations and the policy front." 
“That’s made our jobs harder,” he said.

Rep. Raúl Grijalva (D-Ariz.), head of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, lamented what he characterized as a history of the White House dropping its plans on congressional Democrats without warning. “Not being consulted ahead of time — that just makes people crazy,” Grijalva said. “Let us know ahead of time. Call us in when you're developing something so we can give you our ground-level reality check about how this is going to work.”

Rep. Jim Moran (D-Va.) likened D-Va.) likened the relationship between presidents and their Capitol Hill allies to that between quarterbacks and the offensive linemen charged with protecting them. Some quarterbacks, he said, simply manage that alliance better than others.

“Certainly, Bill Clinton saw us as his offensive line, and so he attended to the nurturing of his offensive line,” Moran said. “And I don't think this president, this quarterback, invests all that much time and effort into the care and feeding of his offensive line.
“You can still win,” Moran added. “It just makes it a little more difficult.”

It's one of Washington's worst-kept secrets that many Democrats have, for years, been frustrated by what they consider a lackluster communications operation between Obama and his allies on Capitol Hill….

Pelosi has long defended the White House's communications efforts. Still, even the ever-loyal Democratic leader recently urged the administration to bolster its congressional outreach in the face of widespread criticism from allies.

“While I disagree with the characterization [that Obama is too aloof], if that is the impression people have, then communication has to be stepped up,” she said during a July 22 appearance on MSNBC's "Morning Joe” program.
                 
“All of this has happened before, and will happen again.”

Offline Aurata

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #383 on: March 26, 2017, 03:18:02 PM »
Unfortunately, for the people of the Ukraine/Crimea and Georgia the US should yell and scream, possibly consider economic sanctions,

Eastreef, eastreef....most of your posts are spot on but not this time.

In the case of Ukraine: the eastern part of the country is ethnically Russian, they do not want to be part of Ukraine. They want to reunite with Russia but Putin said no (hardly the imperialist expansionist Washington portrays him as).
These Russian populations, centred around Luhansk and Donetsk, have formed self-defence militias to protect themselves from Ukrainian forces and to fight for self determination, their own republic.
They are not dictated to by Moscow, neither has Russia invaded Ukraine (another media lie). Moscow has some influence over them but not much.
So the whole propaganda narrative that Russia invaded Ukraine and eastern Ukraine wants freedom from Russian occupation is ...ridiculous.

In the case of Crimea: Crimea has been part of Russia for centuries, the people are Russian. It was put into to Ukraine for administrative reasons during the soviet era, then was cut adrift by the overnight dissolution of the USSR.
The people held a referendum in which they decided to return to Russia, precisely because they were being menaced by western backed forces in Ukraine. The Crimean parliament requested Russia to take them back.
A vast majority of the population is Russian, so it is hardly surprising that they voted this way. Once again: there was no "invasion" of crimea: the transition occurred purely by democratic means.

Georgia: was another conflict caused by Hilary's imperialistic expansionism. The US manufactured a colour revolution "the rose revolution" to bring in a puppet government. It was the same pattern as to how they operated in Ukraine: then their new government started attacking ethnic Russians to force Moscow into action, then Washington could claim that Russia is the evil invader. If you don't believe me, look at WikiLeaks cables from that time.
This is simply the sort of games that the Washington neocons/ globalists have been playing for decades: their goal has always been to wear down Russia by starting fires along its borders. By destabilizing countries and starting conflicts to exhaust the Russian military. Supporting Islamic terrorism if need be. Afghanistan was a prime example.


Quote from: Maximmm
Not really - his new budget is all military and little else.  If nothing else, he is now in cahoots with the military complex.  I wonder if what happened to him is what happened to Obama? 
Obama started off with a similar 'change' platform (which even got him a nobel peace prize) and then did a U-turn. 

Either they were both always in cahoots with the elites and were lying their arses off, or they got blackmailed/pressured by the elites into submission after winning the elections.


Its pretty obvious that Trump was never the chosen one- the media was against him from day one. Not only the liberals, but most of his own party- the republicans.

Simply being rich does not make one part of the "establishment". Trumps business empire is built on hotels, entertainment. Its totally unrelated to the usual pursuits of the elites- the agribusiness, the defense industry, the banks.

The "establishment" is a mixture of special interest groups bound together by secret societies and a hidden agenda. Not simply the oldies who've been there a long time.

Plus, Trumps initial appointments were not neocons. General Flynn was in favour of mending relations with Russia, for example, but he got hounded out by the neocons. The worst thing trump did was to give in to their pressure. It seems he really has since given up though and let the neocons have the floor. Flynn has been replaced by a Russophobe, Trump has allowed a vast military budget to placate his enemies.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2017, 04:30:34 PM by Aurata »
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Online MayorHaggar

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #384 on: March 27, 2017, 10:21:34 AM »


I have a question for you Russia haters- Are you willing to go to war with Russia over some border dispute with Georgia? Do you actually think Putin is going to blitz into Poland?

Would you go fight and die Tatarian independence? Would you send your children to do so?

Then why do you back this anti-Russia nonsense?

Did the US go to war with Russia over Georgia? No. Quit being a Trumpian troll, Steelrails.

And no, Obama didn't hold a gun to Putin's head and force him to invade the Ukraine. As I've said many times, Russia blaming the US for Russian aggression is really stupid and just exposes you as either an idiot or a Russian troll.

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #385 on: March 27, 2017, 10:43:39 AM »

Did the US go to war with Russia over Georgia?

We would next time if NATO was expanded to include them, as HRC has suggested. Do you want to die over South Ossetia?

Are you unaware of your history? Do you know how WWI started? Minor nations dragging in other ones thanks to treaty obligations. Why give Estonia the power to drag us into a nuclear war?

Obama didn't force him. As I've been saying, Obama was the one relatively sane voice in his administration when it came to Russia. Hillary was the one clamoring for a more aggressive posture, something Obama found questionable. However, Ukraine is a divided country and if people of your ethnic group are in a civil war on your border, at the very least you are going to get somewhat involved. It is also within Russia's traditional sphere of influence, just as the Monroe Doctrine gives us primacy in the Western Hemisphere.

Why are we allowed to have a Monroe Doctrine but Russia can't even intervene on behalf of its own people on its own border? Is there any sense of fairness in that?

Quote
just exposes you as either an idiot or a Russian troll.

If anyone is exposed its the people who are engaged in blind Trump rage. All they see is Trump and they can't see the larger picture. Trump could cure cancer and they'd reflexively be against it because it came from Trump.

If this was Bernie Sanders saying the same things about needing a different Russia policy, would you dismiss it as trolling? There are voices on the progressive left who have been saying the same thing, including writers for The Nation, Rolling Stone, Dennis Kucinich, and Glenn Greenwald.

What amazes me is that these are the people who claim to be smart and reasoned and against the Iraq War and against spying, but they're gobbling up what the CIA (Iraq War) and NSA (lied about domestic spying) are feeding them in a run-up to confrontation with Russia, all because they hate Trump.

Also, is Trump still Hitler/Mussolini? Or have we finally moved on to the "he's a dolt phase"? Will you admit to being wrong about him being a fascist?

Offline Aurata

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #386 on: March 27, 2017, 10:47:33 AM »
Putin's head and force him to invade the Ukraine.

When was this invasion exactly?

Quote
Russian aggression

Once again, do fill us all in on the details of this supposed aggression.


You live in a fantasy world.
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Online MayorHaggar

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #387 on: March 27, 2017, 01:21:35 PM »

Did the US go to war with Russia over Georgia?

We would next time if NATO was expanded to include them, as HRC has suggested. Do you want to die over South Ossetia?

Are you unaware of your history? Do you know how WWI started? Minor nations dragging in other ones thanks to treaty obligations. Why give Estonia the power to drag us into a nuclear war?

And I take it you useful idiots don't know how WW2 started.


Online Savant

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #388 on: March 27, 2017, 01:57:28 PM »

Did the US go to war with Russia over Georgia?

We would next time if NATO was expanded to include them, as HRC has suggested. Do you want to die over South Ossetia?

Are you unaware of your history? Do you know how WWI started? Minor nations dragging in other ones thanks to treaty obligations. Why give Estonia the power to drag us into a nuclear war?

And I take it you useful idiots don't know how WW2 started.



Your posts are so imbecillic, they're funny :laugh:

Either you are as dumb as you appear, or you are simply afraid of reality.

/insert tin foil hat meme

When Aurata runs out of Russians-are-not-the-bad-guys talking points, he goes on personal attacks.

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #389 on: March 27, 2017, 02:43:38 PM »

Did the US go to war with Russia over Georgia?

We would next time if NATO was expanded to include them, as HRC has suggested. Do you want to die over South Ossetia?

Are you unaware of your history? Do you know how WWI started? Minor nations dragging in other ones thanks to treaty obligations. Why give Estonia the power to drag us into a nuclear war?

And I take it you useful idiots don't know how WW2 started.



Then you think Putin is Hitler and he's about to start blitzkrieging across Europe?

Offline Aurata

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #390 on: March 27, 2017, 02:57:06 PM »
Quote
Then you think Putin is Hitler and he's about to start blitzkrieging across Europe?

Don't expect answers to basic questions from mare haggler. He's a bot that simply repeats untenable propaganda statements.

The only reason I engage him at all is because he's so inept, he wins thousands over to my side.

If he's being paid by the CIA they should ask for their money back. :laugh:
« Last Edit: March 27, 2017, 03:03:01 PM by Aurata »
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Online Savant

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #391 on: March 27, 2017, 05:04:35 PM »
Quote
Then you think Putin is Hitler and he's about to start blitzkrieging across Europe?

Don't expect answers to basic questions from mare haggler. He's a bot that simply repeats untenable propaganda statements.

The only reason I engage him at all is because he's so inept, he wins thousands over to my side.

If he's being paid by the CIA they should ask for their money back. :laugh:

Compared to you who spouts Russian propaganda for free out of love for the motherland.

Online MayorHaggar

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #392 on: March 27, 2017, 05:09:47 PM »
I'm sure he's swimming in kopecks in St. Petersburg. There's no way any Westerner is dumb enough to support Putin so embarrassingly. Either that or he's just insane and addicted to RT and Vatnik News.

Online MayorHaggar

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #393 on: March 27, 2017, 05:17:31 PM »
Quote
Then you think Putin is Hitler and he's about to start blitzkrieging across Europe?

Don't expect answers to basic questions from mare haggler. He's a bot that simply repeats untenable propaganda statements.

The only reason I engage him at all is because he's so inept, he wins thousands over to my side.

If he's being paid by the CIA they should ask for their money back. :laugh:

Russian propaganda 101: if you are doing something embarrassing and bad and reprehensible, accuse the other side of doing that thing.

Offline Aurata

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #394 on: March 27, 2017, 10:58:03 PM »
Putin's head and force him to invade the Ukraine.

When was this invasion exactly?



Quote
Russian aggression

What aggression?


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Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #396 on: March 28, 2017, 11:19:55 AM »
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_370

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/17/vladimir-putin-admits-russian-military-presence-ukraine

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia

http://www.businessinsider.com/list-of-people-putin-is-suspected-of-assassinating-2016-3

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War



Yes. And what does the list of U.S. military intervention and black ops look like? Why is the U.S. allowed to do such things and not Russia?

Invasion of Iraq? Blowing up pharmaceutical factories? Starving Middle Eastern children? Toppling regimes? Supporting brutal regimes?

And since you lean left, don't you accept that the U.S. police are waging a brutal campaign of oppression against its minority population? How about its international drug war?

Online MayorHaggar

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #397 on: March 28, 2017, 11:23:23 AM »
But it's ok when Russia does far worse things. When's the last time the US government assassinated a journalist, Steelrails? I've asked you this before and you'll just change the subject again and go off on a tangent just like Trump.

Offline Aurata

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #398 on: March 28, 2017, 12:08:23 PM »
You've given a load of irrelevant links to stuff not related to the question.

You claimed that Russia invaded the Ukraine.

What invasion?

Just give me dates, number of troops, tanks, number of people killed, etc. A picture of Russian tanks all over kiev will do.


Flight 370 was not shot down by Russia. More fake news.

As for "aggression". The US has bombed and destroyed seven countries in the past decade, creating a tidal wave of refugees. What do you call it, diplomacy?
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Offline maximmm

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #399 on: March 28, 2017, 12:12:18 PM »

Yes. And what does the list of U.S. military intervention and black ops look like?

Starting with 19th century -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change#19th_century_interventions