December 15, 2018, 07:31:24 PM


Author Topic: When will Trump be impeached?  (Read 200453 times)

Offline eastreef

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Re: Just a matter of time
« Reply #740 on: July 13, 2017, 05:40:03 PM »
Yes, Jr. was extremely dumb and naïve, and should be fired for not telling the president about the meeting and allowing Trump to say there were no meetings with the “Russians.”  Further, any person still on staff who knew about this meeting and did not tell the president should also be fired.  It was stupid and naïve of Jr., but not illegal.
Perhaps if you consider the context and time frame in which these events took place, it will become clear to you that there is a lot of information yet to be disclosed that will demonstrate that Trump was aware of what was going on.

Consider the timeline.

Quote
June 3, 10:36 a.m.

Goldstone emails Donald Trump Jr.:

Good morning

Emin [Agalarov] just called and asked me to contact you with something very interesting.

The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.

This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and it’s government’s support for Mr. Trump – helped along by Aras and Emin.

What do you think is the best way to handle this information and would you be able to speak to Emin about it directly?

I can also send this info to your father via Rhona, but it is ultra sensitive so wanted to send to you first.

“Rhona” is Rhona Graff, Donald Trump’s assistant.

[Who’s who in the stunning Russia-conspiracy emails released by Donald Trump Jr.]

10:53 a.m.

Trump Jr. replies to Goldstone:

Thanks Rob I appreciate that. I am on the road at the moment but perhaps I just speak to Emin first. Seems we have some time and if it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer. Could we do a call first thing next week when I am back?

June 6, 12:40 p.m.

Goldstone to Trump Jr.:

Let me know when you are free to talk with Emin by phone about this Hillary info – you had mentioned early this week so wanted to try to schedule a time and day Best to you and family

3:03 p.m.

Trump Jr. asks Goldstone over email if he can speak with Agalarov at that moment. In a later email, he asks Goldstone to have Agalarov call his cell phone.

3:43 p.m.

Goldstone emails Trump Jr. to tell him that Agalarov is on-stage at the moment but that he can have him call in 20 minutes.


4:38 p.m.


Trump Jr. thanks Goldstone for his help. It’s not clear from this email if the two spoke.

June 7, 4:20 p.m.


Goldstone emails Trump Jr.:

Emin asked that I schedule a meeting with you and The Russian government attorney who is flying over from Moscow for this Thursday.

I believe you are aware of the meeting – and so wondered if 3pm or later on Thursday works for you?

It’s still not clear, but this email may suggest that Trump Jr. and Agalarov spoke.

5:16 p.m.


Trump Jr. suggests a meeting at 3 p.m. This is later changed to 4 p.m.

June 7, evening


Trump wins the primaries in California, Montana, New Jersey, New Mexico and South Dakota, giving him the delegates to officially clinch the Republican nomination.

During his victory speech that night, Trump promises more dirt on Clinton.
Forward to 7min mark of speech

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/07/11/what-happened-and-when-the-timeline-leading-up-to-donald-trump-jr-s-fateful-meeting/?utm_term=.f7ef7c8f585d

If it is alright to speculate that Trump had to know, then it must also be acceptable to speculate that maybe Jr. could have simply told Trump that he may/will soon have something “good” to use against Hillary….  Not unusual for a son to want to surprise/impress his dad.

And, even if Jr. had gotten something “good” to use against Clinton, it would have been perfectly legal for them to make the information public.  They would be protected by the same laws that protect the NYT, Washington Post, CNN….. when they publish information they received from people who illegally obtained it, such as information from Snowden, Manning, WikiLeaks, Ellsberg …… 

If you are just the receiver of the information, and not actually involved in illegally obtaining such information, you can make it public. 

He was stupid, too eager and naïve but he did not do anything illegal.

Quote
http://thehill.com/homenews/media/341703-dershowitz-slams-new-york-times-op-ed-for-broaching-trump-jr-treason-charge

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/07/11/dershowitz-did-donald-trump-jr-commit-crime-or-merely-political-sin-it-depends.html

Obviously if anyone conspired in advance with another to commit a crime – such as hacking the DNC – that would be criminal. But merely seeking to obtain the work product of a prior hack would be no more criminal than a newspaper publishing the work product of thefts such as the Pentagon Papers and the material stolen by Snowden and Manning.   Moreover, the emails sent to Trump Jr. say that the dirt peddled by Veselnitskaya came from “official documents.”  No mention is made of hacking or other illegal activities. So it is unlikely that attendance at the meeting violated any criminal statute…

"There’s really no difference on the First Amendment between a campaigner using information obtained from somebody who obtained it illegally and the newspaper doing it," said Dershowitz..

"It is also not prohibited by law," Dershowitz continued. "There has been so much overwrought claim. People are talking about treason. I can't believe The New York Times had an op-ed yesterday in which treason was mentioned."
               
“All of this has happened before, and will happen again.”

Offline eastreef

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #741 on: July 13, 2017, 05:49:37 PM »
The big story with "her e-mails" just became the big story about "his e-mails" [Little Donny Jr.].

Covfefe!

Agreed '"her emails" were the nothing burger but "Jr's emails" were packed full of prime beef!
What's more, despite the fact that the Donald apparently doesn't do email, his speech June 7th indicates pretty clearly that he hoped something was in the pipeline which one would reasonably deduce was related to Jr's earlier correspondence.

Things might be different if the FBI had actually investigated and the media had actually covered the Clinton email story.  Do you remember reading about when the FBI asked for her phones and the FBI received phones without SIM or SD cards, or that 13 phones could not be found or that phones had been beaten with hammers.  But, I guess that only means Clinton had nothing to hide….. 

If Jr. were to do the same things, many of you and much of the media would be screaming for him to be keelhauled……

Quote
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/294465-cnn-anchor-stunned-that-clinton-aides-destroyed-phones-with

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/cnn-fact-check-confirms-clinton-aides-destroyed-mobile-devices-hammers/

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/07/11/fbi-document-dump-reveals-secrets-clinton-probe-as-new-director-nominee-faces-senate.html
https://vault.fbi.gov/hillary-r.-clinton/Hillary%20R.%20Clinton%20Part%2011%20of%2011/view

Watch CNN anchor's disbelief that Clinton aides destroyed phones with hammer

CNN confirmed live on air Friday that a Hillary Clinton aide destroyed some of the former secretary of state’s used mobile devices with hammers, affirming information contained in the FBI’s investigation of Clinton’s private email server.

CNN anchor Brooke Baldwin was in disbelief when she learned that Hillary Clintons aides destroyed her phones with a hammer.

When Boris Epshteyn, an adviser to Donald Trump told her on air that the Democratic nominee’s aides destroyed her BlackBerries with hammers, Baldwin interrupted him to ask a reporter to fact-check that statement.

Evan, hold on, can you fact-check?” Baldwin asked reporter Evan Perez on “CNN Newsroom” on Friday. “Evan Perez? Hammers? Fact-check that for me, on the fly.”

“Yes they did, Brooke.” Perez responded. “As he mentioned, there were 13 mobile devices and 5 iPads that the FBI said that in some way were used with her private email server, and they did in some cases just destroy them with hammers when they were done using them.”

FBI document dump reveals secrets of Clinton probe as new director nominee faces Senate
By Pamela K. Browne Published July 11, 2017

One redacted exchange reveals a back and forth subpoena response to the FBI from one of Mrs. Clinton's private attorneys, Katherine Turner, a partner at Washington DC powerhouse firm Williams & Connolly. In the document, Turner agreed to turn over one of Mrs. Clinton's non-secure Apple iPads and two of her BlackBerrys to the FBI.  But neither smartphone received from the law firm contain SIM cards or Secure Digital (SD) cards, and a total of 13 mobile devices identified by the FBI as potentially using clintonemail.com email addresses were never located by Williams & Connelly.


               

“All of this has happened before, and will happen again.”

Offline maximmm

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Re: Just a matter of time
« Reply #742 on: July 13, 2017, 07:34:22 PM »

As far as I can tell, if someone informed Trump Jr. that they had incriminating information concerning HRC and he investigated it, that pretty much puts him in the clear.

I think our laws give broad protection to people who are investigating potential criminal behavior, even if they come from foreign governments.

Do you think if China had potentially incriminating information about Trump and Bill/Chelsea met with someone to see what they had, that that would be collusion? No, and it isn't.

Agreed.  You want collusion?  How about Clinton getting debate questions from CNN ahead of the debate?  Or her campaign officials orchestrating violence at Sanders' rallies? 

If Trump Jr. faces any legal repercussions, then Clinton should be looking at twice as much time behind bars, but she clearly isn't.  As such, I don't think junior has anything to worry about.  Like I said earlier though, this incident happened fairly early in the elections campaign - so the question is what else might have transpired later that summer.  For now, we're starting to see real signs of smoke - is there a fire? We'll see what else they manage to dig up. 

Online MayorHaggar

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #743 on: July 13, 2017, 08:31:16 PM »

Apparently, it is acceptable to speculate, fabricate (CNN), fantasize about Trump and the Russians while conveniently forgetting that all of this happened on Obama’s watch.  Maybe because I’m an old Navy man, but the Captain is responsible for what happens on his watch.  The Obama administration admits that they were concerned about the “Russians” during this time and were actively surveilling them, so why didn’t they do something besides closing down a couple of houses and kicking some people out of the U.S.? 

Veselnitskaya was granted this rare permission to enter with the limited purpose of providing legal help to a company owned by Russian businessman Denis Katsyv, and her stay was limited to October 2015 through January 2016. 

She met with Jr. in June 2016.  She actively lobbied and held lobbying events.  If she was acting on behalf of the Russian government then she violated FARA by not registering as a foreign agent.  She was lobbying and attending congressional hearings in Washington in June 2016.

How did the Trump Obama DOJ miss all this?  She was “Russian;” she was first denied a visa; she had to get a rare approval to enter the U.S.; she was supposed to leave the U.S. in January 2016; and she was actively roaming around Washington DC and New York City….  The government/”deep state” got Flynn, but missed all of this?

Finally, why can’t I ask questions/speculate about what the President of the United States was doing regarding the Russians when all this was happening; as apparently the “Russians” are now the most critical issue confronting the United States.

Oh god you literally think Obama is to blame for this. This is like someone blaming the police for not stopping them from soliciting a hooker. This is just ****ing hilarious and sad at the same time.

Online Adel

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Re: Just a matter of time
« Reply #744 on: July 14, 2017, 03:57:22 AM »
Quote
eastreef
If it is alright to speculate that Trump had to know, then it must also be acceptable to speculate that maybe Jr. could have simply told Trump that he may/will soon have something “good” to use against Hillary….  Not unusual for a son to want to surprise/impress his dad.

And, even if Jr. had gotten something “good” to use against Clinton, it would have been perfectly legal for them to make the information public.  They would be protected by the same laws that protect the NYT, Washington Post, CNN….. when they publish information they received from people who illegally obtained it, such as information from Snowden, Manning, WikiLeaks, Ellsberg …… 

If you are just the receiver of the information, and not actually involved in illegally obtaining such information, you can make it public. 

He was stupid, too eager and naïve but he did not do anything illegal.


Aside from the legality of soliciting or accepting anything of value from a foreign national,  there is the fact that Donald Trump senior has repeatedly said that he has nothing to do with the Russians and that any talk of collusion is phony. No amount of diversionary tactics will obscure this fact.  When Trump eventually has to testify under oath his habitual lies will become perjury. The systems of checks and balances, for which Trump shows so much disdain, will prevail.

This investigation will take time and I suspect, as do others, that there is a lot more still to be revealed.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 04:57:08 AM by Adel »

Offline maximmm

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #745 on: July 14, 2017, 03:39:46 PM »
Does anyone else here feel like CNN.com has turned into a Trump news network? 

I mean, RT has had more actual news on its site than CNN in the past few months. 

Online Savant

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #746 on: July 14, 2017, 04:08:17 PM »
Does anyone else here feel like CNN.com has turned into a Trump news network? 

I mean, RT has had more actual news on its site than CNN in the past few months.

CNN is in a domestic abuse relationship with Trump. No matter how many times they try to leave him they keep coming back for more punishment.

Offline eastreef

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Re: Just a matter of time
« Reply #747 on: July 14, 2017, 04:48:00 PM »
Yes, Jr. was extremely dumb and naïve, and should be fired for not telling the president about the meeting and allowing Trump to say there were no meetings with the “Russians.”  Further, any person still on staff who knew about this meeting and did not tell the president should also be fired.  It was stupid and naïve of Jr., but not illegal.
Perhaps if you consider the context and time frame in which these events took place, it will become clear to you that there is a lot of information yet to be disclosed that will demonstrate that Trump was aware of what was going on.

Consider the timeline.

Quote
June 3, 10:36 a.m.

Goldstone emails Donald Trump Jr.:

Good morning

Emin [Agalarov] just called and asked me to contact you with something very interesting.

The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.

This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and it’s government’s support for Mr. Trump – helped along by Aras and Emin.

What do you think is the best way to handle this information and would you be able to speak to Emin about it directly?

I can also send this info to your father via Rhona, but it is ultra sensitive so wanted to send to you first.

“Rhona” is Rhona Graff, Donald Trump’s assistant.

[Who’s who in the stunning Russia-conspiracy emails released by Donald Trump Jr.]

10:53 a.m.

Trump Jr. replies to Goldstone:

Thanks Rob I appreciate that. I am on the road at the moment but perhaps I just speak to Emin first. Seems we have some time and if it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer. Could we do a call first thing next week when I am back?

June 6, 12:40 p.m.

Goldstone to Trump Jr.:

Let me know when you are free to talk with Emin by phone about this Hillary info – you had mentioned early this week so wanted to try to schedule a time and day Best to you and family

3:03 p.m.

Trump Jr. asks Goldstone over email if he can speak with Agalarov at that moment. In a later email, he asks Goldstone to have Agalarov call his cell phone.

3:43 p.m.

Goldstone emails Trump Jr. to tell him that Agalarov is on-stage at the moment but that he can have him call in 20 minutes.


4:38 p.m.


Trump Jr. thanks Goldstone for his help. It’s not clear from this email if the two spoke.

June 7, 4:20 p.m.


Goldstone emails Trump Jr.:

Emin asked that I schedule a meeting with you and The Russian government attorney who is flying over from Moscow for this Thursday.

I believe you are aware of the meeting – and so wondered if 3pm or later on Thursday works for you?

It’s still not clear, but this email may suggest that Trump Jr. and Agalarov spoke.

5:16 p.m.


Trump Jr. suggests a meeting at 3 p.m. This is later changed to 4 p.m.

June 7, evening


Trump wins the primaries in California, Montana, New Jersey, New Mexico and South Dakota, giving him the delegates to officially clinch the Republican nomination.

During his victory speech that night, Trump promises more dirt on Clinton.
Forward to 7min mark of speech

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/07/11/what-happened-and-when-the-timeline-leading-up-to-donald-trump-jr-s-fateful-meeting/?utm_term=.f7ef7c8f585d

If this is true, instead of the email timeline, this to me is more interesting.  If my lawyer knew about this for three weeks and did not tell me, I would fire that lawyer/firm too.

Quote
Trump's lawyers knew about Trump Jr. emails weeks ago: report
By Brandon Carter - 07/13/17 09:06 PM EDT

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/341984-trumps-lawyers-knew-about-trump-jr-emails-weeks-ago-report

President Trump’s outside legal team representing him in the ongoing Russia probe knew about the email chain surrounding a meeting between Donald Trump Jr. and a Russian lawyer more than three weeks ago, according to a new report.
                         
“All of this has happened before, and will happen again.”

Offline eastreef

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Re: Just a matter of time
« Reply #748 on: July 14, 2017, 05:10:14 PM »
Quote
eastreef
If it is alright to speculate that Trump had to know, then it must also be acceptable to speculate that maybe Jr. could have simply told Trump that he may/will soon have something “good” to use against Hillary….  Not unusual for a son to want to surprise/impress his dad.

And, even if Jr. had gotten something “good” to use against Clinton, it would have been perfectly legal for them to make the information public.  They would be protected by the same laws that protect the NYT, Washington Post, CNN….. when they publish information they received from people who illegally obtained it, such as information from Snowden, Manning, WikiLeaks, Ellsberg …… 

If you are just the receiver of the information, and not actually involved in illegally obtaining such information, you can make it public. 

He was stupid, too eager and naïve but he did not do anything illegal.


Aside from the legality of soliciting or accepting anything of value from a foreign national, 

I guess I don’t understand what you mean by accepting something of “value” from a foreign national?  Can you please define “value”, as you are using it? 

For example, suppose a person is a U.S. citizen, teaching in Korea and a Korean co-teacher gives them a gift for their birthday, or the school buys them dinner and drinks.  Does the U.S. citizen need to report on IRS Form 3520 that they received something of value from a foreign national?  Or, say a U.S. citizen is married to a Korean national, and the Korean spouse works at the POE.  The Korean spouse gives you inside information about your NET job and you use this information to secure your position.  Does this information have a tangible or intangible value, per the IRS, and must this value be reported on Form 3520?  Sometimes I can get confused reading IRS requirements.

See below for the IRS rules regarding gifts from a foreign person. 

Now, if you are saying that any “information” that a source gives to someone has a financial value, might that also mean that many American news organizations may be in trouble with the IRS, if these news organizations are not reporting the value of information they receive from foreign sources.  Surely, CNN must get some information from foreign sources?  Or, how about American news organizations obtaining information from U.S. citizens in the U.S?  If information has “value” are these news organizations required to assign a financial value to the information and then meet IRS income reporting requirements?     

A good recent example would be the Washington Post and the Flynn case.  The Washington Post published information that was gathered by the Obama administration Russian surveillance program.  From everything I have read releasing this information to the public violated U.S. Codes.  The Washington Post cited anonymous sources as to where the information came from.  Now, does this information have value – maybe the Washington Post sold more newspapers because of it…..  Was the Washington Post required to assign a value to this sourced information and then report this to the IRS as income? 

What was the value of the Snowden or Manning information, and did news organizations that used this information – and maybe increased their TV ratings, thus earning more advertising revenue – assign a value to this information?  Were they required to report to the IRS the value of the information they received as income?   

Surely, with all the leaking going on now in Washington DC there must be links available that provide information about whether a news organization must assign a value to information it receives, and as to whether it must be reported to the IRS.   Or, does assigning a value to information received from a source only apply to Jr.?  BTW, what was the value of the information that Jr. received from the "Russian?"

BTW, if "information" from a source is considered to be intangible property, where would it fall in the twelve examples of intangible assets listed by the IRS below?   

Quote
Gifts from Foreign Person
International Tax Gap Series

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/gifts-from-foreign-person

If you are a U.S. person who received foreign gifts of money or other property, you may need to report these gifts on Form 3520, Annual Return to Report Transactions with Foreign Trusts and Receipt of Certain Foreign Gifts. Form 3520 is an information return, not a tax return, because foreign gifts are not subject to income tax.  However, there are significant penalties for failure to file Form 3520 when it is required.

General Rule:  Foreign Gifts
In general, a foreign gift is money or other property received by a U.S. person from a foreign person that the recipient treats as a gift or bequest and excludes from gross income.  A “foreign person” is a nonresident alien individual or foreign corporation, partnership or estate.

The IRS may re-characterize purported gifts from foreign partnerships or foreign corporations as items of income that must be included in gross income.  Additionally, gifts from foreign trusts are subject to different rules than gifts other foreign persons. 
A gift to a U.S. person does not include amounts paid for qualified tuition or medical payments made on behalf of the U.S. person.

Reporting Requirements
You must file Form 3520, Annual Return to Report Transactions with Foreign Trusts and Receipt of Certain Foreign Gifts, if, during the current tax year, you treat the receipt of money or other property above certain amounts as a foreign gift or bequest.  Include on Form 3520:
•   Gifts or bequests valued at more than $100,000 from a nonresident alien individual or foreign estate (including foreign persons related to that nonresident alien individual or foreign estate);
or
•   Gifts valued at more than $15,601 for 2015 (adjusted annually for inflation) from foreign corporations or foreign partnerships (including foreign persons related to the foreign corporations or foreign partnerships).
                           

Quote
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/intangibles

Intangible Property is property that has value but cannot be seen or touched. It includes things such as:
1.   Goodwill.
2.   Going concern value.
3.   Workforce in place.
4.   Business books and records, operating systems, or any other information base, including lists or other information concerning current or prospective customers.
5.   A patent, copyright, formula, process, design, pattern, know-how, format, or similar item.
6.   A customer-based intangible.
7.   A supplier-based intangible.
8.   Any item similar to items (3) through (7).
9.   A license, permit, or other right granted by a governmental unit or agency (including issuances and renewals).
10.   A covenant not to compete entered into in connection with the acquisition of an interest in a trade or business.
11.   Any franchise, trademark, or trade name.
12.   A contract for the use of, or a term interest in, any item in this list.

What is an 'Intangible Asset'

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/intangibleasset.asp

An intangible asset is an asset that is not physical in nature. Corporate intellectual property, including items such as patents, trademarks, copyrights and business methodologies, are intangible assets, as are goodwill and brand recognition. Intangible assets exist in opposition to tangible assets which include land, vehicles, equipment, inventory, stocks, bonds and cash.

BREAKING DOWN 'Intangible Asset'

An intangible asset can be classified as either indefinite or definite. A company brand name is an indefinite asset, as it stays with the company as long as the company continues operations. However, if a company enters a legal agreement to operate under another company's patent, with no plans of extending the agreement, the agreement has a limited life and is classified as a definite asset.

To learn more about asset classes, check out "What is the difference between tangible and intangible assets?"

Value of Intangible Assets

While intangible assets don't have the obvious physical value of a factory or equipment, they can prove valuable for a firm and can be critical to its long-term success or failure. For example, a business such as the Coca-Cola Company wouldn't be nearly as successful were it not for the high value obtained through its brand-name recognition. Although brand recognition is not a physical asset that can be seen or touched, its positive effects on bottom-line profit are the driving force behind Coca-Cola's global sales year after year.

Reporting Intangibles to the IRS

Businesses may create or acquire intangible assets. For example, a business may create a mailing list of clients or it may establish a patent. However, another business may eventually buy or acquire either of those intangibles. If a business creates an intangible asset, it cannot write off its value on its income tax return, but if a business acquires the asset, it may claim the cost as a capital expense.

To illustrate, if a business takes out a patent, it may claim the cost of paying inventors, filing the patent application, hiring a patent lawyer and other related costs as business expenses. It may not, however, evaluate the patent and claim that amount as a business expense as well. However, if another business buys the patent, it may write off the cost of the patent. The IRS requires businesses to amortize the cost of intangibles, which means to write them off incrementally over a number of years.

Tangible Vs. Intangible Assets

Tangible assets include both real and financial assets. Real assets include machinery, vehicles, buildings and equipment, while financial assets include those that derive their value from a contractual claim, such as stocks and bonds.


“All of this has happened before, and will happen again.”

Offline eastreef

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #749 on: July 14, 2017, 05:41:17 PM »

Apparently, it is acceptable to speculate, fabricate (CNN), fantasize about Trump and the Russians while conveniently forgetting that all of this happened on Obama’s watch.  Maybe because I’m an old Navy man, but the Captain is responsible for what happens on his watch. 


How did the Trump Obama DOJ miss all this?  She was “Russian;” she was first denied a visa; she had to get a rare approval to enter the U.S.; she was supposed to leave the U.S. in January 2016; and she was actively roaming around Washington DC and New York City….  The government/”deep state” got Flynn, but missed all of this?

Finally, why can’t I ask questions/speculate about what the President of the United States was doing regarding the Russians when all this was happening; as apparently the “Russians” are now the most critical issue confronting the United States.

Oh god you literally think Obama is to blame for this. This is like someone blaming the police for not stopping them from soliciting a hooker. This is just ****ing hilarious and sad at the same time.

The reason I keep bringing this information out is that apparently, per much of the news media and others, the “Russian” issue is considered to be the most important and critical issue currently confronting the U.S.; therefore, if the “Russian” issue is so critically important any investigation should go wherever it leads. 

It seems that many believe that the “Russian” investigation is critically needed only if it can be used to hurt Trump, but if it leads to other people, including the previous administration, then the “Russian” issue isn’t really that important and there is no need for an investigation.  Sorry, but that is not the way life works. 

Below is a link to a letter sent from Senator Grassley, Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, to the Secretary of State and to the Secretary of Homeland security.  In the letter he asks lots of good questions about the “Russian” woman; including how she was allowed to first enter the U.S., then being allowed to stay and then about being registered under FARA. 

Again, this concerns entry into the U.S., along with engaging in political activities, during the Obama administration.  It was not Trump appointees in charge of the DOJ or State Department.   Trump had no authority at that time to allow her to enter the U.S. and to actively be engaged in the U.S. political process.  Apparently, it was the DOJ that first allowed her to enter the U.S. and it is the DOJ that is responsible for the enforcement of FARA.  At that time Attorney General Lynch was in charge of the DOJ.

The Obama administration admits that they were actively surveilling the Russians because they were concerned about Russian interference in the U.S. political process….. So, how did they conveniently miss all of this Russian political activity?  They got Flynn.  I guess maybe if the real intent of the Russian surveillance was not to monitor the Russians but to get “dirt” on Trump that could explain it.  But, of course that could never happen.  But, they got Flynn…. 

BTW, in the Grassley letter you will notice three names: (a) Natalia Veselnitskaya – the “Russian” woman, (b) Rinat Akhmetshin, a Russian immigrant to the U.S. who was reportedly a former Russian GRU counterintelligence officer specializing in active measures campaigns – but I guess this would not arouse the Obama Russian surveillance interest, and
(c) Glenn Simpson (he has declined to testify before congress), the founder of Fusion GPS*. If you have time do some research about Fusion GPS.  Below is just a little about Fusion GPS.

But, I guess it is understandable about why some believe that none of these people and their activities should be included in an investigation regarding Russian interference in the American political system.  Eyes wide shut or singularly focused?

Quote
•   *Fusion GPS: Hired by the Democrats to do opposition research on Mitt Romney.
•   Fusion GPS: Hired by Planned Parenthood in 2015 to do defensive research about undercover videos that painted a bad picture of Planned Parenthood.
•   Fusion GPS: During 2015 and 2016, Fusion GPS was hired by the BakerHostetler law firm which was defending Prevezon from an asset seizure by the U.S. government.[8][9] As part of their litigation support, Fusion GPS investigated Bill Browder, a witness central to the case.[10] During the course of the case, Browder claimed that Fusion GPS had previously been hired to undertake a pro-Russia campaign to aimed at stopping passage of the Magnitsky Act,[11] named after Sergei Magnitsky, a lawyer and auditor who died while being held without charges in a Russian government prison after he revealed that the Kremlin had stolen hundreds of millions of dollars from Hermitage Capital Management.
             
•   On March 30, 2017, Senate Judiciary Chairman Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa called for a U.S. Department of Justice investigation into connections between Fusion GPS and Russia, and an inquiry as to whether Fusion GPS was acting as an unregistered foreign agent.[11] The company has denied the claim that they were engaged in lobbying or violated the Foreign Agents Registration Act.[9][12]

•   Fusion GPS: Trump dossier and Christopher Steele

In September 2015, Fusion GPS was hired to do opposition research for Republicans who opposed Donald Trump's bid during the Republican primary campaign for the 2016 presidential election. When Trump had emerged as the probable Republican candidate for the 2016 U.S. presidential election in the spring of 2016, Republican donors stopped funding the investigation, and Democratic supporters of Hillary Clinton became Fusion GPS's new clients.[13] In June 2016, after the Democratic National Committee had been hacked and its emails began to be published online, Fusion GPS retained Christopher Steele, a private British corporate intelligence investigator and former MI-6 agent, to research any Russian connections to Trump. Steele issued a series of memos from June to December 2016, which became the document known as the Donald Trump–Russia dossier.[13]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_GPS
   

Senator Grassley's Letter.  Some excerpts.
Quote


https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/2017-07-11%20CEG%20to%20DHS%20+%20State%20(Russian%20lawyer%20visa).pdf

It is that same Mr. Browder who in July of 2016 filed the FARA complaint with the Justice Department describing the cohort of Russian agents allegedly involved in the ongoing effort to undermine the Magnitsky Act.2 Among them were:
Rinat Akhmetshin, a Russian immigrant to the U.S. who was reportedly a former Russian GRU counterintelligence officer specializing in active measures campaigns;3
Glenn Simpson, the founder of Fusion GPS; and
• Natalia Veselnitskaya, Russian lawyer for Prevezon Holdings, a Russian-owned company the Justice Department alleged received millions laundered from the crime Mr. Magnitsky uncovered.4 …..

Her declaration raises a number of issues of interest to the Committee……

             

“All of this has happened before, and will happen again.”

Online Adel

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Re: Just a matter of time
« Reply #750 on: July 14, 2017, 07:20:33 PM »
Quote
eastreef

I guess I don’t understand what you mean by accepting something of “value” from a foreign national?  Can you please define “value”, as you are using it? 

For example, suppose a person is a U.S. citizen, teaching in Korea and a Korean co-teacher gives them a gift for their birthday, or the school buys them dinner and drinks.  Does the U.S. citizen need to report on IRS Form 3520 that they received something of value from a foreign national?  Or, say a U.S. citizen is married to a Korean national, and the Korean spouse works at the POE.  The Korean spouse gives you inside information about your NET job and you use this information to secure your position.  Does this information have a tangible or intangible value, per the IRS, and must this value be reported on Form 3520?  Sometimes I can get confused reading IRS requirements.

See below for the IRS rules regarding gifts from a foreign person. 

Now, if you are saying that any “information” that a source gives to someone has a financial value, might that also mean that many American news organizations may be in trouble with the IRS, if these news organizations are not reporting the value of information they receive from foreign sources.  Surely, CNN must get some information from foreign sources?  Or, how about American news organizations obtaining information from U.S. citizens in the U.S?  If information has “value” are these news organizations required to assign a financial value to the information and then meet IRS income reporting requirements?     

A good recent example would be the Washington Post and the Flynn case.  The Washington Post published information that was gathered by the Obama administration Russian surveillance program.  From everything I have read releasing this information to the public violated U.S. Codes.  The Washington Post cited anonymous sources as to where the information came from.  Now, does this information have value – maybe the Washington Post sold more newspapers because of it…..  Was the Washington Post required to assign a value to this sourced information and then report this to the IRS as income? 

What was the value of the Snowden or Manning information, and did news organizations that used this information – and maybe increased their TV ratings, thus earning more advertising revenue – assign a value to this information?  Were they required to report to the IRS the value of the information they received as income?   

Surely, with all the leaking going on now in Washington DC there must be links available that provide information about whether a news organization must assign a value to information it receives, and as to whether it must be reported to the IRS.   Or, does assigning a value to information received from a source only apply to Jr.?  BTW, what was the value of the information that Jr. received from the "Russian?"

BTW, if "information" from a source is considered to be intangible property, where would it fall in the twelve examples of intangible assets listed by the IRS below?   

Gifts from Foreign Person
International Tax Gap Series

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/gifts-from-foreign-person

If you are a U.S. person who received foreign gifts of money or other property, you may need to report these gifts on Form 3520, Annual Return to Report Transactions with Foreign Trusts and Receipt of Certain Foreign Gifts. Form 3520 is an information return, not a tax return, because foreign gifts are not subject to income tax.  However, there are significant penalties for failure to file Form 3520 when it is required.

General Rule:  Foreign Gifts
In general, a foreign gift is money or other property received by a U.S. person from a foreign person that the recipient treats as a gift or bequest and excludes from gross income.  A “foreign person” is a nonresident alien individual or foreign corporation, partnership or estate.

The IRS may re-characterize purported gifts from foreign partnerships or foreign corporations as items of income that must be included in gross income.  Additionally, gifts from foreign trusts are subject to different rules than gifts other foreign persons. 
A gift to a U.S. person does not include amounts paid for qualified tuition or medical payments made on behalf of the U.S. person.

Reporting Requirements
You must file Form 3520, Annual Return to Report Transactions with Foreign Trusts and Receipt of Certain Foreign Gifts, if, during the current tax year, you treat the receipt of money or other property above certain amounts as a foreign gift or bequest.  Include on Form 3520:
•   Gifts or bequests valued at more than $100,000 from a nonresident alien individual or foreign estate (including foreign persons related to that nonresident alien individual or foreign estate);
or
•   Gifts valued at more than $15,601 for 2015 (adjusted annually for inflation) from foreign corporations or foreign partnerships (including foreign persons related to the foreign corporations or foreign partnerships).
                         

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/intangibles

Intangible Property is property that has value but cannot be seen or touched. It includes things such as:
1.   Goodwill.
2.   Going concern value.
3.   Workforce in place.
4.   Business books and records, operating systems, or any other information base, including lists or other information concerning current or prospective customers.
5.   A patent, copyright, formula, process, design, pattern, know-how, format, or similar item.
6.   A customer-based intangible.
7.   A supplier-based intangible.
8.   Any item similar to items (3) through (7).
9.   A license, permit, or other right granted by a governmental unit or agency (including issuances and renewals).
10.   A covenant not to compete entered into in connection with the acquisition of an interest in a trade or business.
11.   Any franchise, trademark, or trade name.
12.   A contract for the use of, or a term interest in, any item in this list.

What is an 'Intangible Asset'

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/intangibleasset.asp

An intangible asset is an asset that is not physical in nature. Corporate intellectual property, including items such as patents, trademarks, copyrights and business methodologies, are intangible assets, as are goodwill and brand recognition. Intangible assets exist in opposition to tangible assets which include land, vehicles, equipment, inventory, stocks, bonds and cash.

BREAKING DOWN 'Intangible Asset'

An intangible asset can be classified as either indefinite or definite. A company brand name is an indefinite asset, as it stays with the company as long as the company continues operations. However, if a company enters a legal agreement to operate under another company's patent, with no plans of extending the agreement, the agreement has a limited life and is classified as a definite asset.

To learn more about asset classes, check out "What is the difference between tangible and intangible assets?"

Value of Intangible Assets

While intangible assets don't have the obvious physical value of a factory or equipment, they can prove valuable for a firm and can be critical to its long-term success or failure. For example, a business such as the Coca-Cola Company wouldn't be nearly as successful were it not for the high value obtained through its brand-name recognition. Although brand recognition is not a physical asset that can be seen or touched, its positive effects on bottom-line profit are the driving force behind Coca-Cola's global sales year after year.

Reporting Intangibles to the IRS

Businesses may create or acquire intangible assets. For example, a business may create a mailing list of clients or it may establish a patent. However, another business may eventually buy or acquire either of those intangibles. If a business creates an intangible asset, it cannot write off its value on its income tax return, but if a business acquires the asset, it may claim the cost as a capital expense.

To illustrate, if a business takes out a patent, it may claim the cost of paying inventors, filing the patent application, hiring a patent lawyer and other related costs as business expenses. It may not, however, evaluate the patent and claim that amount as a business expense as well. However, if another business buys the patent, it may write off the cost of the patent. The IRS requires businesses to amortize the cost of intangibles, which means to write them off incrementally over a number of years.

Tangible Vs. Intangible Assets

Tangible assets include both real and financial assets. Real assets include machinery, vehicles, buildings and equipment, while financial assets include those that derive their value from a contractual claim, such as stocks and bonds.

Yes it's quite clear there are numbers of things you don't quite understand, not least of which is the meaning of an 'aside', but since you went to so much trouble I can't help but feel a sense of obligation to clarify.

Those were some cute examples you provided but not one of them were instances of individuals campaigning for president of the United States, (the most salient point of the case in question). Hence, unlike your heroes, (Trump and co.), your examples wouldn't have potentially violated the statute in question which is 52 USC 30121, 36 USC 510 — the law governing foreign contributions to US campaigns.

Perhaps you might like to read up the relevant statute and get back to me if you require any more clarification.

Here's a link https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/11/110.20


« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 07:28:00 PM by Adel »

Online MayorHaggar

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #751 on: July 14, 2017, 07:48:11 PM »
Eastreef's posts are almost as sad as Ulsan's increasingly desperate attempts to portray itself as some kind of hip and relaxing tropical destination rather than a bunch of rusting factories that make the whole city smell like chemicals.

Online Adel

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #752 on: July 15, 2017, 03:47:24 AM »
Apparently Donny Jr also forgot about another elephant in the room at that infamous meeting with Natalia. :shocked:
So much for Jr's transparency!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pDvvWrEtVk

Quote
Rinat Akhmetshin was not one to hide his connections to Russian intelligence.

During his years working in the shadowy Washington DC world of corporate intelligence, his connections to former Russian agents were pitched as a valuable asset to private clients. Akhmetshin – who courted journalists and politicians alike – was known for speaking as candidly about his years of military service in Afghanistan as his objectives on Capitol Hill.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/14/rinat-akhmetshin-russia-intelligence-donald-trump-jr

Jr's body language in that interview with Hannity should've been the give-away.

Has anyone else had a kid like that in their classroom where their tone, gestures and facial expressions make it obvious they're talking out of their arse?

It reminded me of being forced to take one of those god awful summer camp classes back in the day and having to listen to another one of young Jin-su's cock'n'bull stories.


« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 05:19:03 AM by Adel »

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #753 on: July 17, 2017, 08:04:14 AM »
So what information was exchanged and how did they collude? Because as far as I can tell, it was a mix of standard Republican talking points, Klinton Konspiracy Klassics, and MAGA promises.

You had the DNC hack which took place in like Dec. of 2015 as I recall (which by the way the DNC has not turned over their servers to the FBI for investigation, using only a private paid for 3rd party firm) and the Podesta emails which relied on a phishing scheme a 12 year old could pull off and revealed little.

This election was over the moment Trump won big in Michigan and Sanders stunned Clinton in the same state. The writing was on the wall. The Brexit States were going to vote Trump. That and Rubio losing his own state to Trump. The other moment was on 9/11 at the 9/11 memorial when Hillary collapsed and had to be hauled into her van like a slab of beef. Trump just had to not score an own goal at that point.

On election night it was obvious the moment Trump won Ohio by something like 10 points and was 100k up in Florida.

Offline insulimted

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #754 on: July 17, 2017, 08:09:08 AM »
I'll go get the popcorn.

Eat lots and lots. It will help dislodge that rod you've got stuck up your butt.

Offline maximmm

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #755 on: July 17, 2017, 08:22:58 AM »
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/15/world/europe/rinat-akhmetshin-donald-trump-jr-natalia-veselnitskaya.html?mcubz=2

'Soviet Veteran Who Met With Trump Jr. Is a Master of the Dark Arts'  NY Times headline.

What's next - Trump meets the Sith Lord? 

Now, we already know that Putin is behind every evil thing that has happened in this world in the last few years - our media has told us as much, time and time again.  But if you read this article, it now seems that this fellow is in fact the mastermind behind most evil occurrences in the states. 

This comes after we learn that the fat Russian ambassador, Sergey Kislyak, is yet another nefarious human who serves as an ambassador by day and operates as a master of the espionage arts by night - being so skilled, he'd put 007 to shame. 

Everything seems so black and white that I begin to wonder if we're reading a fairy tale written for 5 year-olds.

Online Adel

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #756 on: July 17, 2017, 08:23:20 AM »
So what information was exchanged and how did they collude? Because as far as I can tell, it was a mix of standard Republican talking points, Klinton Konspiracy Klassics, and MAGA promises.

You had the DNC hack which took place in like Dec. of 2015 as I recall (which by the way the DNC has not turned over their servers to the FBI for investigation, using only a private paid for 3rd party firm) and the Podesta emails which relied on a phishing scheme a 12 year old could pull off and revealed little.

FACT CHECK


Quote
The 2016 Democratic National Committee email leak is a collection of Democratic National Committee (DNC) emails leaked to and subsequently published by WikiLeaks on July 22, 2016.

June 9th 2016 Trump Jr's Meeting with the Russians

CONCLUSION: MISLEADING

Offline maximmm

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #757 on: July 17, 2017, 08:28:28 AM »
By the way, have none of you wondered as to what has happened to Life Improvement and Aurata? 
This discussion is usually their bread and butter. 

Have the CIA and KGB run out of funds?  Or have they been 'disappeared' by some other entity?

How far does this conspiracy go?    Is waygook in on it? 

So many questions!!!

 :laugh:

Online Adel

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #758 on: July 17, 2017, 08:35:22 AM »
By the way, have none of you wondered as to what has happened to Life Improvement and Aurata? 
This discussion is usually their bread and butter. 

Have the CIA and KGB run out of funds?  Or have they been 'disappeared' by some other entity?

How far does this conspiracy go?    Is waygook in on it? 

So many questions!!!

 :laugh:

Chaika! ((Russian: Юрий Яковлевич Чайка), the current Prosecutor General of Russia.)




« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 09:00:58 AM by Adel »

Offline maximmm

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #759 on: July 17, 2017, 08:38:30 AM »
Are you saying they both joined the ***** Riot band?!  :huh: