December 11, 2018, 01:02:24 AM


Author Topic: When will Trump be impeached?  (Read 196250 times)

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Evil Genius strikes again
« Reply #600 on: May 22, 2017, 11:58:36 AM »
Why does that matter to Trump?

It matters to Trump because this investigation dragging on is hurting his ability to get stuff done.

Also, if it isn't true, and therefore Trump KNOWS it is not true, then this investigation is a waste of time, money, and is hurting the United States and destroying public confidence in some of its most important institutions. That is not good for the country and not good for Trump.

And as I said, if he is cleared but because people don't trust Comey, they wouldn't accept the results of the investigations.

Comey did not have the confidence of the public, therefore it was necessary for him to be removed.

Offline Baby Aubergine

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #601 on: May 22, 2017, 12:03:18 PM »
Let's not forget that President Trump linked the Saudi's to 9/11 during his campaign but now he's happy to sell them billions of dollars of arms and call it a victory.

Absolutely, and the payments to Jared and Ivanka right off the back of this deal are so shamelessly, obviously a pay-to-play kind of a deal.

On the flipside of that, I've seen a lot of liberal pundits act SUDDENLY all horrified by dealings with this awful regime that beheads people for sorcery. Revulsion is absolutely right, but they really can't pretend the country hasn't been doing much the same for as long as anyone can remember. Obama, Trudeau and the rest have all signed deals a lot like this.

Online Savant

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #602 on: May 22, 2017, 01:12:46 PM »
Let's not forget that President Trump linked the Saudi's to 9/11 during his campaign but now he's happy to sell them billions of dollars of arms and call it a victory.

Absolutely, and the payments to Jared and Ivanka right off the back of this deal are so shamelessly, obviously a pay-to-play kind of a deal.

On the flipside of that, I've seen a lot of liberal pundits act SUDDENLY all horrified by dealings with this awful regime that beheads people for sorcery. Revulsion is absolutely right, but they really can't pretend the country hasn't been doing much the same for as long as anyone can remember. Obama, Trudeau and the rest have all signed deals a lot like this.

"Pay-to-play" aka lobbying has always been a part of government. The big thing about electing Trump according to him and his supporters was that he was supposed to be the "outsider", not accepting big money, and looking out for the lower/middle classes trying to make it in this economy. All we've seen so far is Trump and his family using the office of the Presidency to enrich the Trump Organization and themselves.

Trump claimed that the Saudi deal will create hundreds of thousands of jobs but he also said he will create so many good paying jobs through a $1 trillion Infrastructure bill and that didn't happen.

Online Savant

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Re: Evil Genius strikes again
« Reply #603 on: May 22, 2017, 01:18:01 PM »
Why does that matter to Trump?

It matters to Trump because this investigation dragging on is hurting his ability to get stuff done.

Also, if it isn't true, and therefore Trump KNOWS it is not true, then this investigation is a waste of time, money, and is hurting the United States and destroying public confidence in some of its most important institutions. That is not good for the country and not good for Trump.

And as I said, if he is cleared but because people don't trust Comey, they wouldn't accept the results of the investigations.

Comey did not have the confidence of the public, therefore it was necessary for him to be removed.

It was necessary to remove Comey after his premature reporting on Hillary's e-mail problem so close to the election where no new information appeared to warrant a re-opening of that investigation.

Trump, alone, is destroying public confidence in many of these institutions by his persistent attacks on them through twitter.

His government is a sieve for leaks because so many are seeing the chaotic and amateurish nature of his governance.

Offline kyndo

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #604 on: May 22, 2017, 01:23:05 PM »
On the flip side of that, I've seen a lot of liberal pundits act SUDDENLY all horrified by dealings with this awful regime that beheads people for sorcery. Revulsion is absolutely right, but they really can't pretend the country hasn't been doing much the same for as long as anyone can remember. Obama, Trudeau and the rest have all signed deals a lot like this.

I get that this is kinda unrelated to what you're saying, but I'd like to point out that Trudeau didn't sign any deals with the Saudis: he only allowed the weapon trade deal that his predecessor made to continue. The distinction is small, but it's there.

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Evil Genius strikes again
« Reply #605 on: May 22, 2017, 02:10:59 PM »
It was necessary to remove Comey after his premature reporting on Hillary's e-mail problem so close to the election where no new information appeared to warrant a re-opening of that investigation.

Trump, alone, is destroying public confidence in many of these institutions by his persistent attacks on them through twitter.

His government is a sieve for leaks because so many are seeing the chaotic and amateurish nature of his governance.

Public confidence in many American institutions has been deteriorating beyond simply Trump and predates him.

Between the Iraq War and the NSA wiretapping exposed by Snowden, public confidence in our intelligence services has declined.

Same goes for the media and Congress. The FBI was middling along, but Comey managed to somehow irritate both parties (hence why Trump said he thought the decision would be a seen as a bipartisan one, which he miscalculated).

Amateurish is not grounds for impeachment and removal from office, nor does it justify conspiracy theories about Russia.

Offline MayorHaggar

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #606 on: May 22, 2017, 04:09:24 PM »

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #607 on: May 22, 2017, 04:44:54 PM »
NYTimes and WaPo opeds can't agree...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/20/opinion/sunday/donald-trump-watergate-democrats.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/05/21/this-is-watergate-on-amphetamines/?utm_term=.b392e5cdb746

Centrists and left-leaners advise people to tone things down.

https://www.vox.com/world/2017/5/19/15561842/trump-russia-louise-mensch

http://theweek.com/articles/699571/foolish-fantasies-impeach-trump-crowd

(Note, Bershidsky is an anti-Putinite)
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-05-19/russians-are-laughing-at-the-u-s-not-just-at-trump

The important thing for this investigation is that people need to not lose their head. Investigate, but the more elaborate you say this conspiracy is and the more you rely on speculation and anonymous sources, the less reliable you are.

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Offline SaintsCanada

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #609 on: May 23, 2017, 10:39:56 AM »
On the flip side of that, I've seen a lot of liberal pundits act SUDDENLY all horrified by dealings with this awful regime that beheads people for sorcery. Revulsion is absolutely right, but they really can't pretend the country hasn't been doing much the same for as long as anyone can remember. Obama, Trudeau and the rest have all signed deals a lot like this.

I get that this is kinda unrelated to what you're saying, but I'd like to point out that Trudeau didn't sign any deals with the Saudis: he only allowed the weapon trade deal that his predecessor made to continue. The distinction is small, but it's there.

Not really. That is the narrative Trudeau is spreading. The export was in fact certified by the (then) new Liberal cabinet-minister.

The deal was made by the Conservatives, but finalized/approved by the Liberals.

Offline kyndo

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #610 on: May 23, 2017, 10:46:24 AM »
Not really. That is the narrative Trudeau is spreading. The export was in fact certified by the (then) new Liberal cabinet-minister.

The deal was made by the Conservatives, but finalized/approved by the Liberals.

Oh, interesting.
I would like to do some further reading on it. Can you recommend a source?


Offline kyndo

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #612 on: May 23, 2017, 04:08:25 PM »
Thanks.  :smiley:

donovan

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #613 on: May 31, 2017, 03:31:26 PM »
Trump Advisers Wage Tug of War Before Decision on Climate Deal

My guess: Trump 'cancels' Paris to censure Kushner (in favor of Paris) for being careless with his secret contact with Russia.

Offline eastreef

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #614 on: June 02, 2017, 10:05:48 AM »
Trump Advisers Wage Tug of War Before Decision on Climate Deal



Quote
...


  Please tell me that Americans are starting to get sick and tired of this shit!!

I have a day off today, so…..

I know that some will probably say that Bloomberg is not credible because he is just another racist-sexist-deplorable, but here is what he currently thinks….

Most of the piece is a good read about the Bloomberg Philanthropies which donates hundreds of millions of dollars to promote health, but he does talk politics. 

I included two links/sources in case some think that the first link is from a pro-Trump source....

The Opinion Pages | Op-Ed Columnist
How We Really Die
Frank Bruni MAY 31, 2017

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/31/opinion/michael-bloomberg-philanthropies-health.html?smid=tw-share&_r=2

Ah, politics. I knew we’d get there. Bloomberg, an independent who opposed Donald Trump, said that Democrats never found an effective message. “Hillary said, ‘Vote for me because I’m a woman and the other guy’s bad,’ ” he said.

They’re still searching for the right issues and words, he said, and too many have visions of 2020 dancing in their heads.

 “They’ll step on each other and re-elect Donald Trump,” he told me, estimating “a 55 percent chance he gets re-elected.”



Michael Bloomberg is no big fan of fellow billionaire Donald Trump. But still, the former New York mayor who has considered in the past a presidential run of his own, believes Trump may remain in the White House for longer than many believe.

Trump, according to Bloomberg, stands a 55 percent chance of getting reelected in 2020. And the reason has little to do with Trump’s qualities.

In an interview with Frank Bruni at the New York Times, Bloomberg, an independent, placed the blame on the Democrats who still can’t get their act together. “Hillary said, ‘Vote for me because I’m a woman and the other guy’s bad,’ ” Bloomberg said, noting that Democrats are still struggling to find their message. “They’ll step on each other and re-elect Donald Trump,” he predicted.

In the 2016 campaign, Bloomberg endorsed Clinton and spoke out forcefully against the election of Trump.

Read more: http://forward.com/fast-forward/373495/michael-bloomberg-trump-odds-reelection/
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Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #615 on: June 02, 2017, 11:06:15 AM »
SO basically what you're saying is that he has a 55% chance of reelection because the Democrats are not a viable opposition, or cannot put forward a viable candidate to run against Trump 2020?  Not because he is a complete idiot that the rest of the world are both worried and amazed that he can maintain power and wouldn't start world war three at the drop of a hat.


That was former NYC mayor Michael Bloomberg that said that. And he can maintain power because the opposition is even more dysfunctional. Polls have shown that people think the Democrats are MORE out of touch than Trump.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/24/politics/democratic-party-poll/index.html

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What I was alluding more to was does Trump still have such a staunch fanbase given that he's walked away from the Paris agreement, was way too late tweet anything about the Portland stabbings considering he does nothing but tweet about fake news or his dumb behaviour in Europe?  Wouldn't all of this chip away at the fanbase he has?

1. Fans weren't a fan of Paris to begin with (I differ with them on this).
2. Portland stabber was a former Bernie Sanders supporter and mentally ill. Why should Trump comment? That's just the media and the left trying to make him grovel.
3. His fans don't have much respect for Macron/Merkel

Besides

1. Jobs are looking good.
2. Border crossings are down.
3. The more the media and the left try to tear him down, the more his base sticks by him.
4. Underneath all of the superficial stuff, people are agreeing with him in his pressuring China on North Korea and calling out Germany (Slate and Politico have agreed that he has a point on Germany's handling of the European economy).

Most importantly, the left is unhinged. HRC is blaming Comey, Putin, Racists, Sexists, the DNC, Bernie supporters, and anyone else but herself for her loss. Meanwhile the left is claiming that Trump has dementia, narcissistic personality disorder, is Hitler, is cunningly scamming people out of money, is over-leveraged, is incompetent, etc. and that he's somehow under the influence of Bannon, Putin, David Duke, Reince Preibus, Kellyanne Conway, Nigel Farage, The Saudis, Netanyahu, Mike Pence, Jared Kushner, Ivanka, 4chan, Roger Ailes, Sheldon Adelson, and has somehow betrayed all of them.

The left is engaging in spray'n'pray and while that works with the left, it's not persuading any of his followers to stop supporting him.

donovan

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #616 on: June 02, 2017, 02:05:15 PM »
This should also send a strong message to France not to shake his hand like that anymore.

Online Savant

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #617 on: June 02, 2017, 03:19:02 PM »
This should also send a strong message to France not to shake his hand like that anymore.

And the Montenegran dude to just get the fook out of the way and stop hogging the limelight.


What a cnut of the highest order!

Yep! That gif has cnutface written all over it.

Offline eastreef

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #618 on: June 02, 2017, 05:26:58 PM »
Mr. DeMartino hit most of the points that I would have made. 

I’ll add that Bloomberg is no amateur when it comes to politics.  If it weren’t for his position on guns – I would have to think long and hard on that - I could possibly consider supporting him if he ran as an “independent” in say a Hillary Clinton (D)-Jeb Bush (R) establishment race.  He actually acknowledges why Hillary lost, and does not push the standard Democratic lines on why Trump won. Remember, many people vote for President based on the lesser of two evils, and not always on “qualifications.”  Further, if the Democrats continue to do as they are doing, Trump can easily been seen as the lesser of two evils, if he decides to run again (I still have my doubts???).

I’ve mentioned several times before to look at the 1968 and 1972 Presidential elections.  Nixon was not the most loveable person and barely won in 1968.  Many people wanted a “little” tranquility after 1968, but the Left continued to push very hard and nominated a far left candidate.  In 1972 Nixon won 60% of the popular vote and carried 49 States.  McGovern only took Massachusetts.  Again, people did not vote for Nixon because he was the most likeable/loveable person, but because many in the ”silent” majority” didn’t like how the Left was acting. 

I have also previously acknowledged that Trump does need to make some adjustments….In particular, I think he needs to hire a robust Chief of Staff and give that person complete authority to run the West Wing, and then Trump should concentrate on such issues as health care, immigration, taxes, foreign policy….
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Offline eastreef

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #619 on: June 02, 2017, 05:35:32 PM »
First, what is wrong with telling Europe it’s time to start standing on their own?  WW II ended 72 years ago.  The Soviets collapsed over 25 years ago.  Why do they still need the U.S. as a crutch?

Second, when Trump ran for President he did not hide the fact that he was against the “Paris” agreement.  I also have some questions about this agreement, but I would have done it a little differently.  I would have really stressed that the U.S. was not “pulling out” but reopening negotiations. 

And, that after renegotiation Trump would follow the U.S. Constitution and submit the new agreement to the Senate for Advice and Consent.  Obama did not submit this agreement to the Senate.  Why not?   Or, Obama could have submitted it to both the Senate and House - similar to a trade agreement – and then only a simple majority in each would be required.  Why didn’t he do this?  If there was so much support for this agreement, surely Congress would have supported it…..

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Article II, Section 2, Clause 2 of the United States Constitution, includes the Treaty Clause, which empowers the president of the United States to propose and chiefly negotiate agreements, which must be confirmed by the Senate, between the United States and other countries, which become treaties between the United States and other countries after the advice and consent of a supermajority of the United States Senate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_Clause
 
The Framers of the Constitution were very worried about giving the president too much power when it came to treaties.  You can read all about this at the following link:

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https://harvardlawreview.org/2014/01/limits-on-the-treaty-power/

The treaty power is a carefully devised mechanism for the federal government to enter into agreements with foreign nations. And it needed to be precisely calibrated because treaties would constitute the supreme law of the land in the United States.  By dividing the treaty power — first by reserving unenumerated powers to the states, and then by housing the federal treaty power in the executive branch with a Senate veto — the Framers sought to check the use of this significant lawmaking tool.
         

By Obama not sending the agreement to the Senate for Advice and Consent, Obama paved the way for a future President to take their own action. This is what President T. Roosevelt had to say about this subject.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_Clause

The Constitution did not explicitly give me power to bring about the necessary agreement with Santo Domingo. But the Constitution did not forbid my doing what I did. I put the agreement into effect, and I continued its execution for two years before the Senate acted; and I would have continued it until the end of my term, if necessary, without any action by Congress. But it was far preferable that there should be action by Congress, so that we might be proceeding under a treaty which was the law of the land and not merely by a direction of the Chief Executive which would lapse when that particular executive left office. I therefore did my best to get the Senate to ratify what I had done.
           
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