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Author Topic: When will Trump be impeached?  (Read 147403 times)

Offline orionchocopie

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #40 on: February 09, 2017, 02:43:04 PM »
Well, because politicians and the public in general are selective about what constitutes unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behavior based on their partisanship. There will never be a universal consensus about what is considered moral or even ethical because morality is liquid and evolves with the prevailing zeitgeist and differs from beholder to beholder. This is why you have the left displaying moral outrage and the right keeping silent and then 4 or 8 years later the exact opposite. This is the left's time to display their moral outrage despite their silence on similar ethical question prior to this election. This is cognitive dissonance. Is Trump's behavior really any worse than the unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behaviors of his predecessors going back to the founding? I don't think so because there were some really questionable actions in the past. Yet, the only presidents to be formally impeached were Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton. The point is if you want Trump's impeachment you will need a majority in the house and senate, not vague allegations and pleading to the public's sense of morality.

So, you have no problem with No. 45 using his power (as the most powerful leader on the planet) to promote his daughter's business interests?

The president is still a member of the public and still human, right? Is it really unethical to tweet your disappointment about something that happened to your family? Is he allowing business interest to hold sway over his office? Your arguments are circumstantial. Do you apply the same standards to past presidents or other elected officials, even the ones you support? The thing is, the left is really digging through the scrap heap to find something to pin on the POTUS so they have a reason to raise impeachment proceedings or probably more realistically a chance in the next election. It seems to me that all other avenues of stopping him from dismantling Obama's legacy are unattainable given the strength of the Republicans in the house and senate, thus all they have left is to promote the idea (with the aid of the willing media), in the hearts and minds of the public that his behavior is so abhorrent that he needs to be removed prior to serving his full term. It smacks of desperation. But if he does something as morally corrupt as Bill did, I will definitely join call for his impeachment.

A simple yes or no would suffice.  Could you answer the question?  And if you don't have a problem with 45's behaviour, please explain why it's okay (in your opinion).

Offline atemporaryaccount

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #41 on: February 09, 2017, 03:28:30 PM »
Well, because politicians and the public in general are selective about what constitutes unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behavior based on their partisanship. There will never be a universal consensus about what is considered moral or even ethical because morality is liquid and evolves with the prevailing zeitgeist and differs from beholder to beholder. This is why you have the left displaying moral outrage and the right keeping silent and then 4 or 8 years later the exact opposite. This is the left's time to display their moral outrage despite their silence on similar ethical question prior to this election. This is cognitive dissonance. Is Trump's behavior really any worse than the unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behaviors of his predecessors going back to the founding? I don't think so because there were some really questionable actions in the past. Yet, the only presidents to be formally impeached were Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton. The point is if you want Trump's impeachment you will need a majority in the house and senate, not vague allegations and pleading to the public's sense of morality.

So, you have no problem with No. 45 using his power (as the most powerful leader on the planet) to promote his daughter's business interests?

The president is still a member of the public and still human, right? Is it really unethical to tweet your disappointment about something that happened to your family? Is he allowing business interest to hold sway over his office? Your arguments are circumstantial. Do you apply the same standards to past presidents or other elected officials, even the ones you support? The thing is, the left is really digging through the scrap heap to find something to pin on the POTUS so they have a reason to raise impeachment proceedings or probably more realistically a chance in the next election. It seems to me that all other avenues of stopping him from dismantling Obama's legacy are unattainable given the strength of the Republicans in the house and senate, thus all they have left is to promote the idea (with the aid of the willing media), in the hearts and minds of the public that his behavior is so abhorrent that he needs to be removed prior to serving his full term. It smacks of desperation. But if he does something as morally corrupt as Bill did, I will definitely join call for his impeachment.

A simple yes or no would suffice.  Could you answer the question?  And if you don't have a problem with 45's behaviour, please explain why it's okay (in your opinion).

You can Google all of 45's conflicts of interest, all the reasons that justify impeachment.

Just your example, though. Yeah, he tweeted about something that happened to his family. He used his personal account. Then he retweeted it from his POTUS account. There's no justifying that. That's unethical.

Online Snoah

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #42 on: February 09, 2017, 04:22:18 PM »
Well, because politicians and the public in general are selective about what constitutes unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behavior based on their partisanship. There will never be a universal consensus about what is considered moral or even ethical because morality is liquid and evolves with the prevailing zeitgeist and differs from beholder to beholder. This is why you have the left displaying moral outrage and the right keeping silent and then 4 or 8 years later the exact opposite. This is the left's time to display their moral outrage despite their silence on similar ethical question prior to this election. This is cognitive dissonance. Is Trump's behavior really any worse than the unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behaviors of his predecessors going back to the founding? I don't think so because there were some really questionable actions in the past. Yet, the only presidents to be formally impeached were Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton. The point is if you want Trump's impeachment you will need a majority in the house and senate, not vague allegations and pleading to the public's sense of morality.

So, you have no problem with No. 45 using his power (as the most powerful leader on the planet) to promote his daughter's business interests?

The president is still a member of the public and still human, right? Is it really unethical to tweet your disappointment about something that happened to your family? Is he allowing business interest to hold sway over his office? Your arguments are circumstantial. Do you apply the same standards to past presidents or other elected officials, even the ones you support? The thing is, the left is really digging through the scrap heap to find something to pin on the POTUS so they have a reason to raise impeachment proceedings or probably more realistically a chance in the next election. It seems to me that all other avenues of stopping him from dismantling Obama's legacy are unattainable given the strength of the Republicans in the house and senate, thus all they have left is to promote the idea (with the aid of the willing media), in the hearts and minds of the public that his behavior is so abhorrent that he needs to be removed prior to serving his full term. It smacks of desperation. But if he does something as morally corrupt as Bill did, I will definitely join call for his impeachment.

A simple yes or no would suffice.  Could you answer the question?  And if you don't have a problem with 45's behaviour, please explain why it's okay (in your opinion).

Convince me that his intention was categorically and demonstrably meant to benefit her business interest and not just him showing disappointment at their decision. I might then agree that it could be grounds for impeachment. You should also be realistic and know that's not going to happen under the current balance of power in congress. Presidents don't generally get impeached because of vague ethical quagmires. There has to be substantial evidence of wrong doing to sway congress.

Offline Ptolemy

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #43 on: February 09, 2017, 05:39:41 PM »
Does this first article mean that the elitists have created such a hostile environment that Americans are worried what will happen to them if they admit they support Trump?  Will they be assailed on airplanes?  Will their businesses be targeted?  Are they afraid to exercise their right to free speech? 

I agreed with basically your whole post.

But that part is especially important. Somehow the liberals have become the fear-based party. People ARE afraid to click like on something Milo says on say Facebook, or to talk about how they love Trump's policies, or to talk about men's rights, etc. This also makes any polling of Trump's popularity meaningless, as people are seriously afraid of getting labeled a "white supremacist" or "misogynist" or whatever meaningless insult.

But this also works for Team Trump's strategy, the silence from the right leads the "radical alt left" into arrogance, thinking everyone agrees with them, continuing to insult everyone (but minorities and women), while a growing part of the country want them to STFU ASAP.

These dummies still don't understand you can NOT win with just minorities. Men, white people, and conservatives still (barely) get voting rights.   :huh:
« Last Edit: February 09, 2017, 09:50:04 PM by Ptolemy »

Offline orionchocopie

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2017, 09:08:22 PM »
Well, because politicians and the public in general are selective about what constitutes unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behavior based on their partisanship. There will never be a universal consensus about what is considered moral or even ethical because morality is liquid and evolves with the prevailing zeitgeist and differs from beholder to beholder. This is why you have the left displaying moral outrage and the right keeping silent and then 4 or 8 years later the exact opposite. This is the left's time to display their moral outrage despite their silence on similar ethical question prior to this election. This is cognitive dissonance. Is Trump's behavior really any worse than the unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behaviors of his predecessors going back to the founding? I don't think so because there were some really questionable actions in the past. Yet, the only presidents to be formally impeached were Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton. The point is if you want Trump's impeachment you will need a majority in the house and senate, not vague allegations and pleading to the public's sense of morality.

So, you have no problem with No. 45 using his power (as the most powerful leader on the planet) to promote his daughter's business interests?

The president is still a member of the public and still human, right? Is it really unethical to tweet your disappointment about something that happened to your family? Is he allowing business interest to hold sway over his office? Your arguments are circumstantial. Do you apply the same standards to past presidents or other elected officials, even the ones you support? The thing is, the left is really digging through the scrap heap to find something to pin on the POTUS so they have a reason to raise impeachment proceedings or probably more realistically a chance in the next election. It seems to me that all other avenues of stopping him from dismantling Obama's legacy are unattainable given the strength of the Republicans in the house and senate, thus all they have left is to promote the idea (with the aid of the willing media), in the hearts and minds of the public that his behavior is so abhorrent that he needs to be removed prior to serving his full term. It smacks of desperation. But if he does something as morally corrupt as Bill did, I will definitely join call for his impeachment.

A simple yes or no would suffice.  Could you answer the question?  And if you don't have a problem with 45's behaviour, please explain why it's okay (in your opinion).

Convince me that his intention was categorically and demonstrably meant to benefit her business interest and not just him showing disappointment at their decision. I might then agree that it could be grounds for impeachment. You should also be realistic and know that's not going to happen under the current balance of power in congress. Presidents don't generally get impeached because of vague ethical quagmires. There has to be substantial evidence of wrong doing to sway congress.

That's all terribly interesting, but again, yes or no is all that's required.  So, if you don't mind?

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Offline hippo

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #46 on: February 09, 2017, 11:06:30 PM »


Oh my god, there's a fish!


"from here to there, funny things are everywhere.
These yellow pets are called the Zeds.
They have one hair up on their heads.
Their hair grows fast, they say, they need a hair cut every day.

Dr. Seuss One Fish, Two Fish, Red Fish, Blue Fish
« Last Edit: February 09, 2017, 11:19:41 PM by hippo »

Online Adel

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #47 on: February 10, 2017, 02:12:02 AM »
Aside from chrismclea's red herrings, indicative of his lack of concern for obvious conflicts of interest, combined with a disinterest in Trump''s disdain for democratic principles, perhaps he should take Conway's lead and advocate buying one of Ivanka's frocks and some stilettos.  :laugh:

Code of Federal Regulations
2635.702 Use of public office for private gain.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2017, 02:55:31 AM by Adel »

Offline thunderlips

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #48 on: February 10, 2017, 07:52:56 AM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/whitehouse/the-latest-trump-wishes-china-a-prosperous-new-year/2017/02/08/6daba6b6-ee6c-11e6-a100-fdaaf400369a_story.html?utm_term=.84b219dc35dc

"The top two lawmakers on the House Oversight Committee are asking ethics officials to review comments made by a top aide to President Donald Trump after she promoted Ivanka Trump’s fashion line during a television interview from the White House.

Reps. Jason Chaffetz of Utah and Elijah Cummings of Maryland on Thursday asked the Office of Government Ethics to review the comments by White House aide Kellyanne Conway. The lawmakers say Conway’s statement could “constitute an explicit endorsement and advertisement for Ivanka Trump’s personal business.”

Chaffetz, a Republican, chairs the oversight panel. Cummings is the senior Democrat."

So neo-cons your own party is recognizing the ethics violations of this administration. When will you be able to separate out our own inherent alt-facts to see the truth?




Online Snoah

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #49 on: February 10, 2017, 08:07:18 AM »
Well, because politicians and the public in general are selective about what constitutes unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behavior based on their partisanship. There will never be a universal consensus about what is considered moral or even ethical because morality is liquid and evolves with the prevailing zeitgeist and differs from beholder to beholder. This is why you have the left displaying moral outrage and the right keeping silent and then 4 or 8 years later the exact opposite. This is the left's time to display their moral outrage despite their silence on similar ethical question prior to this election. This is cognitive dissonance. Is Trump's behavior really any worse than the unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behaviors of his predecessors going back to the founding? I don't think so because there were some really questionable actions in the past. Yet, the only presidents to be formally impeached were Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton. The point is if you want Trump's impeachment you will need a majority in the house and senate, not vague allegations and pleading to the public's sense of morality.

So, you have no problem with No. 45 using his power (as the most powerful leader on the planet) to promote his daughter's business interests?

The president is still a member of the public and still human, right? Is it really unethical to tweet your disappointment about something that happened to your family? Is he allowing business interest to hold sway over his office? Your arguments are circumstantial. Do you apply the same standards to past presidents or other elected officials, even the ones you support? The thing is, the left is really digging through the scrap heap to find something to pin on the POTUS so they have a reason to raise impeachment proceedings or probably more realistically a chance in the next election. It seems to me that all other avenues of stopping him from dismantling Obama's legacy are unattainable given the strength of the Republicans in the house and senate, thus all they have left is to promote the idea (with the aid of the willing media), in the hearts and minds of the public that his behavior is so abhorrent that he needs to be removed prior to serving his full term. It smacks of desperation. But if he does something as morally corrupt as Bill did, I will definitely join call for his impeachment.

A simple yes or no would suffice.  Could you answer the question?  And if you don't have a problem with 45's behaviour, please explain why it's okay (in your opinion).

Convince me that his intention was categorically and demonstrably meant to benefit her business interest and not just him showing disappointment at their decision. I might then agree that it could be grounds for impeachment. You should also be realistic and know that's not going to happen under the current balance of power in congress. Presidents don't generally get impeached because of vague ethical quagmires. There has to be substantial evidence of wrong doing to sway congress.

That's all terribly interesting, but again, yes or no is all that's required.  So, if you don't mind?
Read between the lines. Does it seem that I'm bothered by his tweet?

Offline orionchocopie

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #50 on: February 10, 2017, 08:11:17 AM »
Well, because politicians and the public in general are selective about what constitutes unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behavior based on their partisanship. There will never be a universal consensus about what is considered moral or even ethical because morality is liquid and evolves with the prevailing zeitgeist and differs from beholder to beholder. This is why you have the left displaying moral outrage and the right keeping silent and then 4 or 8 years later the exact opposite. This is the left's time to display their moral outrage despite their silence on similar ethical question prior to this election. This is cognitive dissonance. Is Trump's behavior really any worse than the unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behaviors of his predecessors going back to the founding? I don't think so because there were some really questionable actions in the past. Yet, the only presidents to be formally impeached were Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton. The point is if you want Trump's impeachment you will need a majority in the house and senate, not vague allegations and pleading to the public's sense of morality.

So, you have no problem with No. 45 using his power (as the most powerful leader on the planet) to promote his daughter's business interests?

The president is still a member of the public and still human, right? Is it really unethical to tweet your disappointment about something that happened to your family? Is he allowing business interest to hold sway over his office? Your arguments are circumstantial. Do you apply the same standards to past presidents or other elected officials, even the ones you support? The thing is, the left is really digging through the scrap heap to find something to pin on the POTUS so they have a reason to raise impeachment proceedings or probably more realistically a chance in the next election. It seems to me that all other avenues of stopping him from dismantling Obama's legacy are unattainable given the strength of the Republicans in the house and senate, thus all they have left is to promote the idea (with the aid of the willing media), in the hearts and minds of the public that his behavior is so abhorrent that he needs to be removed prior to serving his full term. It smacks of desperation. But if he does something as morally corrupt as Bill did, I will definitely join call for his impeachment.

A simple yes or no would suffice.  Could you answer the question?  And if you don't have a problem with 45's behaviour, please explain why it's okay (in your opinion).

Convince me that his intention was categorically and demonstrably meant to benefit her business interest and not just him showing disappointment at their decision. I might then agree that it could be grounds for impeachment. You should also be realistic and know that's not going to happen under the current balance of power in congress. Presidents don't generally get impeached because of vague ethical quagmires. There has to be substantial evidence of wrong doing to sway congress.

That's all terribly interesting, but again, yes or no is all that's required.  So, if you don't mind?
Read between the lines. Does it seem that I'm bothered by his tweet?

It's a simple question.  Are you incapable of answering?

Perhaps you could also say whether or not Conway's message to "Go buy Ivanka's stuff" on live TV is ok.

Offline atemporaryaccount

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #51 on: February 10, 2017, 08:59:39 AM »
Well, because politicians and the public in general are selective about what constitutes unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behavior based on their partisanship. There will never be a universal consensus about what is considered moral or even ethical because morality is liquid and evolves with the prevailing zeitgeist and differs from beholder to beholder. This is why you have the left displaying moral outrage and the right keeping silent and then 4 or 8 years later the exact opposite. This is the left's time to display their moral outrage despite their silence on similar ethical question prior to this election. This is cognitive dissonance. Is Trump's behavior really any worse than the unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behaviors of his predecessors going back to the founding? I don't think so because there were some really questionable actions in the past. Yet, the only presidents to be formally impeached were Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton. The point is if you want Trump's impeachment you will need a majority in the house and senate, not vague allegations and pleading to the public's sense of morality.

So, you have no problem with No. 45 using his power (as the most powerful leader on the planet) to promote his daughter's business interests?

The president is still a member of the public and still human, right? Is it really unethical to tweet your disappointment about something that happened to your family? Is he allowing business interest to hold sway over his office? Your arguments are circumstantial. Do you apply the same standards to past presidents or other elected officials, even the ones you support? The thing is, the left is really digging through the scrap heap to find something to pin on the POTUS so they have a reason to raise impeachment proceedings or probably more realistically a chance in the next election. It seems to me that all other avenues of stopping him from dismantling Obama's legacy are unattainable given the strength of the Republicans in the house and senate, thus all they have left is to promote the idea (with the aid of the willing media), in the hearts and minds of the public that his behavior is so abhorrent that he needs to be removed prior to serving his full term. It smacks of desperation. But if he does something as morally corrupt as Bill did, I will definitely join call for his impeachment.

A simple yes or no would suffice.  Could you answer the question?  And if you don't have a problem with 45's behaviour, please explain why it's okay (in your opinion).

Convince me that his intention was categorically and demonstrably meant to benefit her business interest and not just him showing disappointment at their decision. I might then agree that it could be grounds for impeachment. You should also be realistic and know that's not going to happen under the current balance of power in congress. Presidents don't generally get impeached because of vague ethical quagmires. There has to be substantial evidence of wrong doing to sway congress.


Again, he tweeted from his personal and the POTUS accounts. You can interpret his tweet as disappointment, until he expresses it as the president. The point of the POTUS account is to exert influence.

Offline atemporaryaccount

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #52 on: February 10, 2017, 09:09:53 AM »
Does this first article mean that the elitists have created such a hostile environment that Americans are worried what will happen to them if they admit they support Trump?  Will they be assailed on airplanes?  Will their businesses be targeted?  Are they afraid to exercise their right to free speech? 

I agreed with basically your whole post.

But that part is especially important. Somehow the liberals have become the fear-based party. People ARE afraid to click like on something Milo says on say Facebook, or to talk about how they love Trump's policies, or to talk about men's rights, etc. This also makes any polling of Trump's popularity meaningless, as people are seriously afraid of getting labeled a "white supremacist" or "misogynist" or whatever meaningless insult.

But this also works for Team Trump's strategy, the silence from the right leads the "radical alt left" into arrogance, thinking everyone agrees with them, continuing to insult everyone (but minorities and women), while a growing part of the country want them to STFU ASAP.

These dummies still don't understand you can NOT win with just minorities. Men, white people, and conservatives still (barely) get voting rights.   :huh:

Legislation is being made to protect, very broadly, organizations (including basically everything) that want to refuse service to people based on moral judgments. Any judgment, as long as they claim (claim!) that it's religious in nature.

This can include a business not providing a service to you if you are gay or trans, or having sex outside of marriage, or divorced, or, I don't know, wearing clothes made of two different materials.

Could mean young gay kids not having support, or a place to go if they need one.

Could be people not getting care they need because of their personal choices.

Seattle pulled their business from Wells Fargo because the bank is invested in DAPL, which 45 supports. People are allowed to say what they believe and, within reason, act accordingly, right? First amendment and all, yes?

Right?

Trump's popularity is so low because his policies hurt basically everyone. That's the polls. Are you going to argue that people lie when being polled, not in public, because they're afraid? Lol. Trump has emboldened his supporters, if anything. Or disappointed them quickly and entirely.

Offline Dave Stepz

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #53 on: February 10, 2017, 09:11:57 AM »
Quote
The statute provides a president – in this case President Trump – with great latitude and authority to protect the citizens and protect the nation’s national security …

I think his tweet was perfect when he said we’ll see you in court.

Thanks Kellyanne for this insightful tweet, but it would seem that the unanimity of the ruling that Trump isn't going to push this through any time soon.  Go back to the 'Bowling Green Massacre' again to scare the crap out of people.

Offline atemporaryaccount

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #54 on: February 10, 2017, 09:41:14 AM »
Quote from: atemporaryaccount

Trump's popularity is so low

http://polling.reuters.com/#poll/CP3_2/filters/PD1:1/dates/20170101-20170207/type/smallest

That said, polls still don't mean anything.

Those against Trump are much louder, but to say they outnumber those who support Trump may be a bit misleading.

I forgot who won the popular vote.

Anyway, his popularity is still low compared to other presidents entering office.

Not that it matters. My point is that almost everyone is at risk, 45-supporter or not.

Offline Life Improvement

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #55 on: February 10, 2017, 09:45:07 AM »
How is Trump's approval rating so high?

http://polling.reuters.com/#!poll/TM1028Y16_2

Offline eastreef

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #56 on: February 10, 2017, 11:31:12 AM »
Does this first article mean that the elitists have created such a hostile environment that Americans are worried what will happen to them if they admit they support Trump?  Will they be assailed on airplanes?  Will their businesses be targeted?  Are they afraid to exercise their right to free speech? 


Legislation is being made to protect, very broadly, organizations (including basically everything) that want to refuse service to people based on moral judgments. Any judgment, as long as they claim (claim!) that it's religious in nature.

Trump's popularity is so low because his policies hurt basically everyone. That's the polls. Are you going to argue that people lie when being polled, not in public, because they're afraid? Lol. Trump has emboldened his supporters, if anything. Or disappointed them quickly and entirely.

Agree!  If you operate a business that serves the public you should serve everyone.  A bakery should not be able to deny making a cake for a person who believes in gay rights, nor should a restaurant be able to deny service to a person who supports a particular candidate.  But, the elitists want to have their cake and eat it too.  Sorry, couldn’t resist that one.  Many elitists have clearly demonstrated that they believe discrimination is acceptable if such discrimination meets their political or personal positions/beliefs…….

In addition, if an elitist believes that they are “correct” about something such “correctness” equates to everyone else being not correct.  Their dogma supports the belief that if you are not correct about something that also means you have no right to free speech or free expression.  This position reminds me of people I met back in the day who were totally convinced that discrimination against people who were black was proper and justified.  They were so certain that they were correct in their thoughts that you could not have a reasonable conversation with them.  It was wrong back then and it is wrong today

Disagree about the polls.  I don’t believe the elitist media can accurately measure the public about Trump.  The elitist news organizations are so obsessed with Trump that they cannot objectively report, and that is why they will continue to get things wrong.     After all, everyone they know doesn’t like Trump; therefore, that must mean the whole country feels the same way…….

So, why isn’t Clinton president?  Look at the dates on these predictions for the Electoral College.  I mean, they did get it right, didn’t they?

Quote
  2016 Presidential Election Forecasts

http://www.270towin.com/2016-election-forecast-predictions/   

And what about the information in this story from the right leaning Politico?

Quote
  Donald Trump might be more popular than you think

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/donald-trump-popularity-polling-234630   

I originally supported Trump not because I completely agreed with how he articulated everything, but because something needed to be done to break the establishment lock.  Coming out of WW II one of the primary reasons that the U.S. became such a strong country (and yes envied country) is because we built a substantial middle class.  In the name of their political agendas both parties have been dismantling this middle class.  A strong middle class makes it much more difficult for the people at the top to control everything, and in D.C. control/money is what it is all about.  Trump will survive if he follows through…….

The article below is one of the best that I have found post-election that explains why Trump really won, and why neither Jeb Bush nor Clinton could beat Trump.  And why if he follows through, and wants a second term, he can win again.  Below are some excerpts.  For the complete article see the link. 

Quote
  Sorry, uncovering America’s racist underbelly wasn’t why Trump won
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/09/sorry-uncovering-americas-racist-underbelly-wasnt-why-trump-won-commentary.html
9 November 2016  Jake Novak | @jakejakeny 

Millions of Americans, especially those in the Washington establishment, woke up on Wednesday feeling shocked and hurt by the surprise election of Donald Trump to the White House. But like every failure or painful turn in life, it will mean nothing and lead to nothing but hurt feelings unless these wounded Americans learn a real lesson today and become tomorrow's wise. To do that, they must accept and learn the real reason Trump won.

First, they need to ignore the prevailing angry explanations that are all off the mark. The first incorrect reason many of us began hearing well before Election Day was that Trump was being bolstered by overt racists and more nuanced "alt-right" haters who were acting like a springboard after eight years of an African-American in the Oval Office………..

The second reason many people have been using as a crutch against the real reason for Trump's victory is sexism……..

The last wrong explanation for Clinton's loss is one people both on the Left and the Right are making: The Clinton email scandal……..

Nope, the real reasons Trump won have been real in America for at least the last 40 or so years. They are all the same reasons I finally recognized five-plus months ago when I first realized he was headed to victory. It's simple: The largest single economic group in our country has been sold out and ignored by the leaders of both parties for more than a generation. They are the hourly wage-earning Americans who have been bounced around from good manufacturing jobs, to service jobs, to seasonal work without the rest of us noticing that much.   And that's even though there are a lot more of them than the college-educated white collar office workers out there. You know the financial uncertainty you felt last night when you saw the Dow futures crash down by 750 points? That's the kind of emotion millions of your fellow Americans have been feeling every night for years even though they're not "poor" or even necessarily unemployed.

These are the people who have been the acceptable sacrifices for our trade and wage-deflating immigration policies that do boost our economy overall ... just not for them. These are the people who have been scoffed at for not choosing to go to college, even though doing so has become an exercise in playing a game of "economic chicken" with student loans and irrelevant skills.

  And it goes beyond economics. This is a divide that truly began in America during the Vietnam War, which was protested and defended by the rich and upper middle class while the lower middle class and poor actually did the fighting in country.   That divide and the wounds from it have never really healed. I doubt we'll ever see an exit poll this specific, but I'd be willing to bet that Trump won 60 percent plus of the Vietnam veterans' vote because he spoke to their past and current pain in a way actual Vietnam vets like John Kerry and John McCain — guys who actually served in the war — never could…………….

Hillary Clinton and the 16 Republicans who lost to Trump in the primaries failed because they really have thought of this group of people as "deplorables." Clinton was just the unlucky one who got caught saying so…………..   

“All of this has happened before, and will happen again.”

Online Snoah

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #57 on: February 10, 2017, 12:26:32 PM »
Well, because politicians and the public in general are selective about what constitutes unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behavior based on their partisanship. There will never be a universal consensus about what is considered moral or even ethical because morality is liquid and evolves with the prevailing zeitgeist and differs from beholder to beholder. This is why you have the left displaying moral outrage and the right keeping silent and then 4 or 8 years later the exact opposite. This is the left's time to display their moral outrage despite their silence on similar ethical question prior to this election. This is cognitive dissonance. Is Trump's behavior really any worse than the unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behaviors of his predecessors going back to the founding? I don't think so because there were some really questionable actions in the past. Yet, the only presidents to be formally impeached were Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton. The point is if you want Trump's impeachment you will need a majority in the house and senate, not vague allegations and pleading to the public's sense of morality.

So, you have no problem with No. 45 using his power (as the most powerful leader on the planet) to promote his daughter's business interests?

The president is still a member of the public and still human, right? Is it really unethical to tweet your disappointment about something that happened to your family? Is he allowing business interest to hold sway over his office? Your arguments are circumstantial. Do you apply the same standards to past presidents or other elected officials, even the ones you support? The thing is, the left is really digging through the scrap heap to find something to pin on the POTUS so they have a reason to raise impeachment proceedings or probably more realistically a chance in the next election. It seems to me that all other avenues of stopping him from dismantling Obama's legacy are unattainable given the strength of the Republicans in the house and senate, thus all they have left is to promote the idea (with the aid of the willing media), in the hearts and minds of the public that his behavior is so abhorrent that he needs to be removed prior to serving his full term. It smacks of desperation. But if he does something as morally corrupt as Bill did, I will definitely join call for his impeachment.

A simple yes or no would suffice.  Could you answer the question?  And if you don't have a problem with 45's behaviour, please explain why it's okay (in your opinion).

Convince me that his intention was categorically and demonstrably meant to benefit her business interest and not just him showing disappointment at their decision. I might then agree that it could be grounds for impeachment. You should also be realistic and know that's not going to happen under the current balance of power in congress. Presidents don't generally get impeached because of vague ethical quagmires. There has to be substantial evidence of wrong doing to sway congress.

That's all terribly interesting, but again, yes or no is all that's required.  So, if you don't mind?
Read between the lines. Does it seem that I'm bothered by his tweet?

It's a simple question.  Are you incapable of answering?

Perhaps you could also say whether or not Conway's message to "Go buy Ivanka's stuff" on live TV is ok.
Well, I would say that is a bit of a faux pas but I usually don't concern myself with such trivialities that have almost no bearing on my life. It makes for an interesting commute/read. That's it. I'm happy to defer to the wisdom of the judiciary or congress given that i'm not a constitutional expert nor an expert on legal ethics. You can pursue your crusade for impeachment if you like. I'm not stressed. Call me when you got some real dirt on the scumbag.

And I will say this, careful of all these polls you guys are putting your faith in. We would not want you almost moving to the sunny shores of Yellowknife again.

Offline thunderlips

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #58 on: February 10, 2017, 12:28:33 PM »
Does this first article mean that the elitists have created such a hostile environment that Americans are worried what will happen to them if they admit they support Trump?  Will they be assailed on airplanes?  Will their businesses be targeted?  Are they afraid to exercise their right to free speech? 


Legislation is being made to protect, very broadly, organizations (including basically everything) that want to refuse service to people based on moral judgments. Any judgment, as long as they claim (claim!) that it's religious in nature.

Trump's popularity is so low because his policies hurt basically everyone. That's the polls. Are you going to argue that people lie when being polled, not in public, because they're afraid? Lol. Trump has emboldened his supporters, if anything. Or disappointed them quickly and entirely.

Agree!  If you operate a business that serves the public you should serve everyone.  A bakery should not be able to deny making a cake for a person who believes in gay rights, nor should a restaurant be able to deny service to a person who supports a particular candidate.  But, the elitists want to have their cake and eat it too.  Sorry, couldn’t resist that one.  Many elitists have clearly demonstrated that they believe discrimination is acceptable if such discrimination meets their political or personal positions/beliefs…….

In addition, if an elitist believes that they are “correct” about something such “correctness” equates to everyone else being not correct.  Their dogma supports the belief that if you are not correct about something that also means you have no right to free speech or free expression.  This position reminds me of people I met back in the day who were totally convinced that discrimination against people who were black was proper and justified.  They were so certain that they were correct in their thoughts that you could not have a reasonable conversation with them.  It was wrong back then and it is wrong today

Disagree about the polls.  I don’t believe the elitist media can accurately measure the public about Trump.  The elitist news organizations are so obsessed with Trump that they cannot objectively report, and that is why they will continue to get things wrong.     After all, everyone they know doesn’t like Trump; therefore, that must mean the whole country feels the same way…….

So, why isn’t Clinton president?  Look at the dates on these predictions for the Electoral College.  I mean, they did get it right, didn’t they?

Quote
  2016 Presidential Election Forecasts

http://www.270towin.com/2016-election-forecast-predictions/   

And what about the information in this story from the right leaning Politico?

Quote
  Donald Trump might be more popular than you think

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/donald-trump-popularity-polling-234630   

I originally supported Trump not because I completely agreed with how he articulated everything, but because something needed to be done to break the establishment lock.  Coming out of WW II one of the primary reasons that the U.S. became such a strong country (and yes envied country) is because we built a substantial middle class.  In the name of their political agendas both parties have been dismantling this middle class.  A strong middle class makes it much more difficult for the people at the top to control everything, and in D.C. control/money is what it is all about.  Trump will survive if he follows through…….

The article below is one of the best that I have found post-election that explains why Trump really won, and why neither Jeb Bush nor Clinton could beat Trump.  And why if he follows through, and wants a second term, he can win again.  Below are some excerpts.  For the complete article see the link. 

Quote
  Sorry, uncovering America’s racist underbelly wasn’t why Trump won
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/09/sorry-uncovering-americas-racist-underbelly-wasnt-why-trump-won-commentary.html
9 November 2016  Jake Novak | @jakejakeny 

Millions of Americans, especially those in the Washington establishment, woke up on Wednesday feeling shocked and hurt by the surprise election of Donald Trump to the White House. But like every failure or painful turn in life, it will mean nothing and lead to nothing but hurt feelings unless these wounded Americans learn a real lesson today and become tomorrow's wise. To do that, they must accept and learn the real reason Trump won.

First, they need to ignore the prevailing angry explanations that are all off the mark. The first incorrect reason many of us began hearing well before Election Day was that Trump was being bolstered by overt racists and more nuanced "alt-right" haters who were acting like a springboard after eight years of an African-American in the Oval Office………..

The second reason many people have been using as a crutch against the real reason for Trump's victory is sexism……..

The last wrong explanation for Clinton's loss is one people both on the Left and the Right are making: The Clinton email scandal……..

Nope, the real reasons Trump won have been real in America for at least the last 40 or so years. They are all the same reasons I finally recognized five-plus months ago when I first realized he was headed to victory. It's simple: The largest single economic group in our country has been sold out and ignored by the leaders of both parties for more than a generation. They are the hourly wage-earning Americans who have been bounced around from good manufacturing jobs, to service jobs, to seasonal work without the rest of us noticing that much.   And that's even though there are a lot more of them than the college-educated white collar office workers out there. You know the financial uncertainty you felt last night when you saw the Dow futures crash down by 750 points? That's the kind of emotion millions of your fellow Americans have been feeling every night for years even though they're not "poor" or even necessarily unemployed.

These are the people who have been the acceptable sacrifices for our trade and wage-deflating immigration policies that do boost our economy overall ... just not for them. These are the people who have been scoffed at for not choosing to go to college, even though doing so has become an exercise in playing a game of "economic chicken" with student loans and irrelevant skills.

  And it goes beyond economics. This is a divide that truly began in America during the Vietnam War, which was protested and defended by the rich and upper middle class while the lower middle class and poor actually did the fighting in country.   That divide and the wounds from it have never really healed. I doubt we'll ever see an exit poll this specific, but I'd be willing to bet that Trump won 60 percent plus of the Vietnam veterans' vote because he spoke to their past and current pain in a way actual Vietnam vets like John Kerry and John McCain — guys who actually served in the war — never could…………….

Hillary Clinton and the 16 Republicans who lost to Trump in the primaries failed because they really have thought of this group of people as "deplorables." Clinton was just the unlucky one who got caught saying so…………..   


The election has been beaten to death on here. We are NOT talking about the whys or hows. This is about Trump's inability to govern now. The election is over, thank you dog.

Try arguing why you think Trump won't be impeached post election please.


Offline orionchocopie

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #59 on: February 10, 2017, 12:53:58 PM »
Well, because politicians and the public in general are selective about what constitutes unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behavior based on their partisanship. There will never be a universal consensus about what is considered moral or even ethical because morality is liquid and evolves with the prevailing zeitgeist and differs from beholder to beholder. This is why you have the left displaying moral outrage and the right keeping silent and then 4 or 8 years later the exact opposite. This is the left's time to display their moral outrage despite their silence on similar ethical question prior to this election. This is cognitive dissonance. Is Trump's behavior really any worse than the unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behaviors of his predecessors going back to the founding? I don't think so because there were some really questionable actions in the past. Yet, the only presidents to be formally impeached were Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton. The point is if you want Trump's impeachment you will need a majority in the house and senate, not vague allegations and pleading to the public's sense of morality.

So, you have no problem with No. 45 using his power (as the most powerful leader on the planet) to promote his daughter's business interests?

The president is still a member of the public and still human, right? Is it really unethical to tweet your disappointment about something that happened to your family? Is he allowing business interest to hold sway over his office? Your arguments are circumstantial. Do you apply the same standards to past presidents or other elected officials, even the ones you support? The thing is, the left is really digging through the scrap heap to find something to pin on the POTUS so they have a reason to raise impeachment proceedings or probably more realistically a chance in the next election. It seems to me that all other avenues of stopping him from dismantling Obama's legacy are unattainable given the strength of the Republicans in the house and senate, thus all they have left is to promote the idea (with the aid of the willing media), in the hearts and minds of the public that his behavior is so abhorrent that he needs to be removed prior to serving his full term. It smacks of desperation. But if he does something as morally corrupt as Bill did, I will definitely join call for his impeachment.

A simple yes or no would suffice.  Could you answer the question?  And if you don't have a problem with 45's behaviour, please explain why it's okay (in your opinion).

Convince me that his intention was categorically and demonstrably meant to benefit her business interest and not just him showing disappointment at their decision. I might then agree that it could be grounds for impeachment. You should also be realistic and know that's not going to happen under the current balance of power in congress. Presidents don't generally get impeached because of vague ethical quagmires. There has to be substantial evidence of wrong doing to sway congress.

That's all terribly interesting, but again, yes or no is all that's required.  So, if you don't mind?
Read between the lines. Does it seem that I'm bothered by his tweet?

It's a simple question.  Are you incapable of answering?

Perhaps you could also say whether or not Conway's message to "Go buy Ivanka's stuff" on live TV is ok.
Well, I would say that is a bit of a faux pas but I usually don't concern myself with such trivialities that have almost no bearing on my life. It makes for an interesting commute/read. That's it. I'm happy to defer to the wisdom of the judiciary or congress given that i'm not a constitutional expert nor an expert on legal ethics. You can pursue your crusade for impeachment if you like. I'm not stressed. Call me when you got some real dirt on the scumbag.

And I will say this, careful of all these polls you guys are putting your faith in. We would not want you almost moving to the sunny shores of Yellowknife again.

You seem to have a lot to say on such a "triviality".  You are happy to accept whatever situation is thrust upon you and seem to lack the critical thinking skills to develop your own opinion on the matter, to the point of being unable to answer a simple yes/no question.

I'll be able to ignore all your posts in the future as they clearly are devoid of original thought and simply comprise parroting back what you read on your commute.